Author Topic: Taxes. Why are we subsidizing or exempting religions that just lie to us?  (Read 873 times)

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Offline Greatest I am

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Taxes. Why are we subsidizing or exempting religions that just lie to us?

All religions have their own Gods and be you a believer or not, you pay taxes to support them, ---- and all they return, except for a bit of social babysitting, ---- is lies.

Are you fed up with the Noble Lie of your governance and should these lying churches stop feeding from your wallet while your government use them against you?

I can appreciate some of the ancient logic for propagating churches and religions and the Noble Lie. I think that that logic no longer applies as our communication systems have become global and instant and churches are no longer required to supplement our social safety nets and that they have become superfluous and redundant.

Should your tax support for these lying churches and competing Gods be ended?

Are we bright enough to rid ourselves of the Noble Lie that we feed ourselves?

Why are you subsidizing religions that just lie to us?

Would you like to end churches and other tax exempt entities from taking your hard earned dollars and returning nothing or are churches still required in our modern societies?

Regards
DL

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Taxes. Why are we subsidizing or exempting religions that just lie to us?
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2013, 10:19:08 PM »
The reasons are historical, not logical. And since religion is involved, and politics, for that matter, logic doesn't seem to apply.

If politicians can't do anything right anywhere else, don't expect perfection here. I, of course, agree that they should not be tax exempt. But if my opinion couldn't keep us out of Iraq, stop the NSA debacle or get tea partiers tossed into the ocean, I don't think it is going to work here either.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Taxes. Why are we subsidizing or exempting religions that just lie to us?
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2013, 06:50:21 PM »
The reasons are historical, not logical. And since religion is involved, and politics, for that matter, logic doesn't seem to apply.

If politicians can't do anything right anywhere else, don't expect perfection here. I, of course, agree that they should not be tax exempt. But if my opinion couldn't keep us out of Iraq, stop the NSA debacle or get tea partiers tossed into the ocean, I don't think it is going to work here either.

Hard to say what is possible is I tell two friends and you tell two friends and on and on. Do try to be optimistic.

I do know nothing will change if we do not attempt to change it.

Regards
DL

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Taxes. Why are we subsidizing or exempting religions that just lie to us?
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2013, 08:58:29 PM »
Tax all the vices including religion,the Catholic church has a lot more money than any Colombian cartel and they leave a lot more bodies in their wake... Doug Stanhope quote
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Taxes. Why are we subsidizing or exempting religions that just lie to us?
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2013, 09:03:29 PM »
Tax all the vices including religion,the Catholic church has a lot more money than any Colombian cartel and they leave a lot more bodies in their wake... Doug Stanhope quote

As sinners, I agree that churches should pay their sin taxes like all the rest of us.
Especially their lying tax.

Regards
DL

Offline William

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Re: Taxes. Why are we subsidizing or exempting religions that just lie to us?
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2013, 02:57:14 AM »
I agree GIa  :)
Why does God need a tax break to get stuff done? 
In any case I'd like to see tax auditors go into some churches and ask to see tangible evidence of God's work  :police:
And do a little sniffing around for personal enjoyment of church assets and income - I think they'll find a goldmine.
Git mit uns

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Taxes. Why are we subsidizing or exempting religions that just lie to us?
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2013, 11:10:12 AM »
I agree GIa  :)
Why does God need a tax break to get stuff done? 
In any case I'd like to see tax auditors go into some churches and ask to see tangible evidence of God's work  :police:
And do a little sniffing around for personal enjoyment of church assets and income - I think they'll find a goldmine.

Indeed. Clawing back back taxes would give the rest of us a break for a change.

Where TF is justice and why are we not pushing the governments to stop giving benefits to liars and flim-flam men?

Regards
DL

Offline Jontom10

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Re: Taxes. Why are we subsidizing or exempting religions that just lie to us?
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2013, 11:18:13 AM »
With view to the U.K.

Stamp duty should be retrospectively taken from all religious denominations. e.g. all Church of England properties are valued and Stamp Duty taken.

All "donations" should be taxed at gift rate of 40%.

The religious buildings will attract business rates of council tax as they are a business.

All religious properties will have to be maintained by the religion using its own funds. No government funding be it at national or local level.

All staff (vicars, priests, imams, money launderers) will be taxed the same as any other worker. Especially the perks like travel, cars, second homes etc.. all types of benefit in kind.

All profits will be taxed the same as any business. Profits being calculated like any other organisation.

Fuk the parasitic bastards.

Hasa Diga Eebowai

Offline Star Stuff

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Re: Taxes. Why are we subsidizing or exempting religions that just lie to us?
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2013, 11:29:50 AM »
I do not see why the schoolmaster should be taxed to support the priest, and not the priest the schoolmaster.  (Henry David Thoreau)


In 1850, I believe, the church property in the United States, which paid no tax, amounted to $87 million.  In 1900, without a check, it is safe to say, this property will reach a sum exceeding $3 billion.  I would suggest the taxation of all property equally.  (Ulysses S. Grant)

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Re: Taxes. Why are we subsidizing or exempting religions that just lie to us?
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2013, 11:39:33 AM »
The idea of Separation of Church and State I don't believe equated to this because either one could say by Church not paying taxes they are forcing the government to abide, or vice versa.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Jag

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Re: Taxes. Why are we subsidizing or exempting religions that just lie to us?
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2013, 11:44:30 AM »
Spring semester, my poli-sci instructor mentioned this in passing: $6 billion dollars annually are lost to uncollected property taxes on church-owned properties.

I wish I'd asked him for a source on that remark - he's a lawyer in real life, so I'm pretty sure he could have produced one that could be deemed credible, but I was so gobsmacked by the number that the lecture had moved on by the time it occurred to me to ask. The guy next to me had a very quiet hissy fit in my ear over it at the same time so it was an opportunity lost.

Google had this to say: https://www.google.com/#q=church-owned+property+taxes+exempt+per+year+in+the+US

Lots of differing opinions on the actual total, but it's a big number in any frame of reference.
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Offline wheels5894

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Re: Taxes. Why are we subsidizing or exempting religions that just lie to us?
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2013, 12:19:45 PM »
With view to the U.K.

Stamp duty should be retrospectively taken from all religious denominations. e.g. all Church of England properties are valued and Stamp Duty taken.

All "donations" should be taxed at gift rate of 40%.

The religious buildings will attract business rates of council tax as they are a business.

All religious properties will have to be maintained by the religion using its own funds. No government funding be it at national or local level.

All staff (vicars, priests, imams, money launderers) will be taxed the same as any other worker. Especially the perks like travel, cars, second homes etc.. all types of benefit in kind.

All profits will be taxed the same as any business. Profits being calculated like any other organisation.

Fuk the parasitic bastards.

Jontom,

I think you go a little too far here though I agree you sentiment.

Here in the UK charitable exemption is granted to all sorts of organisations basically based on them providing 'charitable work' whether feeding the elderly, helping children etc. Religion is another category, though as a properly organised religion in the UK is granted charitable status on that basis alone and they don't have to do anything 'charitable' to get the exemption. It doesn't cover all religions as the religion has to make itself open to anyone without charging them so Scientology doesn't get the status and neither do some Plymouth Brethren either.

The things I would like to see abolished in the UK are -

  • Charitable status merely for being a religion. Of course, and activities a church does that are 'charitable' could still be exempted.  In fact, as a member organisation religions wouldn't be taxed on their member fees which makes up quite  a lot of  their income.
  • UK charities can claim gift aid - i.e a return of the tax someone has paid before giving money to the organisation.  Religion gets loads of cash from this.
  • Quite a lot of public schools in the UK are run by religions. The government pays the entire cost of this. I would like to see such schools pay at least the proportion of the costs represented by the religious element of the school and significantly more if they claim the right to select teachers and pupils on the basis of religion

As matter of record, certainly Church of England clergy have to keep detailed records of mileages and so on for the Inland Revenue and don't really do any better that the ordinary employed person out of the tax service.
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Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Taxes. Why are we subsidizing or exempting religions that just lie to us?
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2013, 12:45:52 PM »
I do not see why the schoolmaster should be taxed to support the priest, and not the priest the schoolmaster.  (Henry David Thoreau)


In 1850, I believe, the church property in the United States, which paid no tax, amounted to $87 million.  In 1900, without a check, it is safe to say, this property will reach a sum exceeding $3 billion.  I would suggest the taxation of all property equally.  (Ulysses S. Grant)

Good info and no argument my friend.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Taxes. Why are we subsidizing or exempting religions that just lie to us?
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2013, 12:50:53 PM »
Spring semester, my poli-sci instructor mentioned this in passing: $6 billion dollars annually are lost to uncollected property taxes on church-owned properties.

I wish I'd asked him for a source on that remark - he's a lawyer in real life, so I'm pretty sure he could have produced one that could be deemed credible, but I was so gobsmacked by the number that the lecture had moved on by the time it occurred to me to ask. The guy next to me had a very quiet hissy fit in my ear over it at the same time so it was an opportunity lost.

Google had this to say: https://www.google.com/#q=church-owned+property+taxes+exempt+per+year+in+the+US

Lots of differing opinions on the actual total, but it's a big number in any frame of reference.

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2012/06/16/the-yearly-cost-of-religious-tax-exemptions-71000000000/

71 billion.

Regards
DL

Offline Jontom10

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Re: Taxes. Why are we subsidizing or exempting religions that just lie to us?
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2013, 01:55:27 PM »

Jontom,

I think you go a little too far here though I agree you sentiment.

Here in the UK charitable exemption is granted to all sorts of organisations basically based on them providing 'charitable work' whether feeding the elderly, helping children etc. Religion is another category, though as a properly organised religion in the UK is granted charitable status on that basis alone and they don't have to do anything 'charitable' to get the exemption. It doesn't cover all religions as the religion has to make itself open to anyone without charging them so Scientology doesn't get the status and neither do some Plymouth Brethren either.

The things I would like to see abolished in the UK are -

  • Charitable status merely for being a religion. Of course, and activities a church does that are 'charitable' could still be exempted.  In fact, as a member organisation religions wouldn't be taxed on their member fees which makes up quite  a lot of  their income.
  • UK charities can claim gift aid - i.e a return of the tax someone has paid before giving money to the organisation.  Religion gets loads of cash from this.
  • Quite a lot of public schools in the UK are run by religions. The government pays the entire cost of this. I would like to see such schools pay at least the proportion of the costs represented by the religious element of the school and significantly more if they claim the right to select teachers and pupils on the basis of religion

As matter of record, certainly Church of England clergy have to keep detailed records of mileages and so on for the Inland Revenue and don't really do any better that the ordinary employed person out of the tax service.

Charitable my arse. They are all for profit and power and do bugger all for charity when compared to the whole. Like the mafia claiming they should be tax free because they run a soup kitchen every Wednesday.

Religious schools. Well for a start I don't agree with them. How can something based on lies and fantasy teach children anything? The schools can exist for sure but they should be self funded ENTIRELY by the religion they represent..

As for too far... well I would go very far to rid the world of the blight that is religion. I would round up every priest, rabbi, imam etc etc and to quote Kenny Everett, put 'em all in a field and bomb da bastards. Take all the property and funds and after government has its tax I would distribute it or use it to help the poor. I would remove from all schools any form of religious education other than in history and humanities where it is taught as a ridiculous thing that happened in the past and the human race is very embarrassed about it.



I would make a harsh dictator... harsh, but fair :)

Hasa Diga Eebowai

Offline snotnosetommy

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Re: Taxes. Why are we subsidizing or exempting religions that just lie to us?
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2013, 02:07:26 PM »
Maybe the first baby step should be fighting for them to be required to file an IRS form 990 in the U.S. 

THAT would scare the holy crap out of them!

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Taxes. Why are we subsidizing or exempting religions that just lie to us?
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2013, 02:12:25 PM »
Maybe the first baby step should be fighting for them to be required to file an IRS form 990 in the U.S. 

THAT would scare the holy crap out of them!

Being Canadian I cannot comment on that form but any accountability, --- I am there for that.

Regards
DL

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Taxes. Why are we subsidizing or exempting religions that just lie to us?
« Reply #17 on: September 25, 2013, 02:33:57 AM »
I think the annual price for religion is something like seventy one billion dollars, imagine if that was spent on cancer research, or given to poorer countries...
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Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Taxes. Why are we subsidizing or exempting religions that just lie to us?
« Reply #18 on: September 25, 2013, 07:45:17 AM »
I think the annual price for religion is something like seventy one billion dollars, imagine if that was spent on cancer research, or given to poorer countries...

No argument for sure and yes, it is a huge amount of money to waste on lies.

Regards
DL