Author Topic: Yuri Bezmenov  (Read 403 times)

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Offline Boots

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Yuri Bezmenov
« on: September 18, 2013, 12:47:56 PM »
So I've got a right-wing relative who sent me an audio clip of an interview back in the 1980's from a defected KGB informant, Yuri Bezmenov.  In a nutshell, Bez said that the KGB had--AND IMPLEMENTED--an elaborate plan to slowly destroy the USA by essentially poisoning the education of as much of a whole generation as possible.  These poisoned individuals then buy into the socialist/communist ideology due to a lack of patriotism...and stuff.  There's more details, but if you want them, look on youtube for the interview.

Here's my dilemma.  I asked this relative whether there is any evidence to support this guy's claim, and so far none is forthcoming.  Aside from a wiki article...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Bezmenov
...the only thing I can find on the web is page after nutty page of right-wing conspiracy theorists spouting 'HE WARNED US, NOW WE'VE GOT A COMMUNIST IN THE WHITE HOUSE AAHH WE'RE ALLGONNAPHLUCKINGDIE..." when I search for info on Yuri.

Anyone ever heard of this guy?  Anyone ever hear any of the claims he made either substantiated, or refuted, with some actual hard evidence?
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Offline Nam

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Re: Yuri Bezmenov
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2013, 12:49:36 PM »
Who needs Russians to do that, we got Texas.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Online jaimehlers

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Re: Yuri Bezmenov
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2013, 01:16:05 PM »
I seriously doubt that the KGB would actually have had the clout to influence the entire American education system.

This is just another of those things to keep the right-wingers stirred up.  It isn't about what's true, it's about making sure they don't take any time to think about it.

Offline Boots

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Re: Yuri Bezmenov
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2013, 02:10:05 PM »
and what's more, jaim, there *is* no "American education system," really.  It's all locally run on a district-by-district basis.  What I'd like ot know is, who is this guy, and why did he interview as he did?  I can't find anything solid on him aside from the recorded interviews.
* Religion: institutionalized superstition, period.

"Many of my ultra-conservative Republican friends...have trouble accepting the idea God is not a Republican. " ~OldChurchGuy

"We humans may never figure out the truth, but I prefer trying to find it over pretending we know it."  ~ParkingPlaces

Offline neopagan

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Re: Yuri Bezmenov
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2013, 02:20:45 PM »
^^^ was his claim that the Dept of Education was set up as a KGB front to indoctrinate the good chilluns of the US?  If so, that's fanciful at best. 
I agree - there's no "American" education system.  Sounds like typical conspiracy nutcakes.
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline Boots

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Re: Yuri Bezmenov
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2013, 02:25:11 PM »
^^^ was his claim that the Dept of Education was set up as a KGB front to indoctrinate the good chilluns of the US?  If so, that's fanciful at best. 
I agree - there's no "American" education system.  Sounds like typical conspiracy nutcakes.

I can't do it justice with paraphrasing...and I'll get it wrong if I try.  If you've got 15 minutes, find one of his interviews.  In fact, try this...

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/02/28/former-kgb-agent-yuri-bezmenov-explains-our-four-stages-the-new-normal-2/
* Religion: institutionalized superstition, period.

"Many of my ultra-conservative Republican friends...have trouble accepting the idea God is not a Republican. " ~OldChurchGuy

"We humans may never figure out the truth, but I prefer trying to find it over pretending we know it."  ~ParkingPlaces

Offline Nick

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Re: Yuri Bezmenov
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2013, 03:40:36 PM »
I can understand the destroying of a generation of education among the youth but how do you go from that to socialist/communism?  But this is a right wing nut job story so I guess you don't need facts.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Yuri Bezmenov
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2013, 04:56:51 PM »
Believe me, in my experience as a college professor, the worse an education a young person has, the more likely they are to espouse knee-jerk conservative views. They get their ideas from church, the military and right wing corporate media.

We have a president more right-wing than Nixon, and people think he is a communist, so the US population has not been exactly indoctrinated into left-wing ideology by the public schools. I have only encountered a handful of socialist-leaning students in all my years of teaching. Kids who read a lot are more likely to at least have a clue as to what socialism is. So, the KGB plot backfired bigtime.

All of us commie pinko professors will have to send back all the lucrative checks we have been getting from Russia. &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Yuri Bezmenov
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2013, 06:41:10 PM »
So I've got a right-wing relative who sent me an audio clip of an interview back in the 1980's from a defected KGB informant, Yuri Bezmenov.  In a nutshell, Bez said that the KGB had--AND IMPLEMENTED--an elaborate plan to slowly destroy the USA by essentially poisoning the education of as much of a whole generation as possible.  These poisoned individuals then buy into the socialist/communist ideology due to a lack of patriotism...and stuff. 

His Wiki entry is interesting. It tries to put him across as a person who was so innocent as to be surprised that 75% of the Novostyi staff were KGB – who’d have thought it?

He was debriefed by the Americans who did not particularly want him and gave him to the Canadians who did not use him in his intelligence capacity, only for blatant propaganda from which he was eventually dismissed, for whatever reason, but I doubt it was because the Russians gave the command as was claimed in the Wiki article.

The Old Russians believed themselves to be pioneers who had to suffer for a better and more equal world – this was the Communist Party's explanation/excuse for their lack of economic success.

They had an official propaganda view that the West was filled with effete capitalists and a people whose foundation was luxury for which they were dependent upon imperialism in the 3rd World and the sweat of the working man. They further taught that all that was required was that the working man should rise up and the capitalists would turn to jelly and be defeated. This would have been the line of the Communist Party of the USSR when he, Bezmenov, was stationed on the Indian subcontinent where there is a strong left-wing element who are willing to believe this.

Bezmenov defects and warns that the West has been infiltrated by the Left and, as part of their plan, is being guided towards communism. Why should anyone believe this garbage? If you tell a lie, the bigger it is the more likely it is to be believed, but you must know what people want to believe - then tell them it is true.

The Russians were well-aware of Sen. Joe McCarthy’s legacy that claimed that there were Reds under all the beds and they capitalised on it. They were well-aware of the older US generation’s view of the American being “John Wayne The Frontiersman” who sorted out their own problems without recourse to modern wealth, to public justice, public health services, public welfare, etc. (i.e. the older conservative people who believed that the “soft life” was inherently decadent.)

But more worrying to the Russians, they saw as very dangerous the liberal attitudes rising in America from the young. American youth culture influenced Russian youth more than you can imagine and was heavily but not entirely successfully suppressed. The last thing the Russians wanted was a discontent youth in their own country but a discontented youth in America was just what they wanted - they could exploit the generational gap. Indirectly, Bezmenov shows how they went about trying to achieve that aim: It was simple destabilisation.

So, in the West, the Russian line was that it was the Russians who were “poisoning individuals [who would] then buy into the socialist/communist ideology due to a lack of patriotism.”  when, in reality, America was becoming such an economic power that natural justice and liberal ideas blossomed and flourished and the population were happy. The old conservative (but relatively poor and not so educated) order in the US was being challenged - these were the generation brought up on a diet of anti-communism - and replaced by a far more free and equal society. How could the Russians take advantage of this?

The Russians let it leak out that they were causing the growing liberal views, the new freedoms, so as to bring the US down. Of course, they weren’t. But you can see how it would work: “But that is exactly what a Communist would say, isn’t it!?” Of course it is the Russians!” -> They were causing divisions.

If the Russian lie were accepted then the police and army, by voter demand, would have to work to tighten security and thus restrict liberty. This, in turn, would cause resentment and this would then cause riots and subversion and act as a recruiting sergeant for the Left. More would have to be spent on internal security and, at this stage, those who had suffered, without help from the Russians, would foment trouble. This then would force the US government to spend even more on internal security and less on external security: the focus shifts to the Russian advantage.

Consider the Civil Rights movement and the anti Vietnam movement and the anti nuclear movement - there was very little Russian involvement in these but what if the Russians claimed they were behind them? Polarisation and more oppression in the name of security.  The government and the individual states and protesters would suffer - political embarrassment, etc. The Russians could them point this out to anyone one who was listening and claim the capitalist system killed its own workers (It did claim that by the way.)

Looking at his career, Bezmenov did not make it very high and did not know many real secrets. But he has to make a living somehow.

Don’t think that the Russians have any monopoly on this system, the US, UK, France, Israel, India, China, etc., all know this game. There is no need for subversion if people believe there is subversion – the effect is the same.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Boots

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Re: Yuri Bezmenov
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2013, 06:53:10 PM »
What kills me is that this individual *is* well educated.  He's an engineer, published & been a peer reviewer (according to him--no reason not to believe, but I haven't read anything).  Worked for prestigious research institutions (like Woods Hole).  and the rest of his immediate family is a lot closer to the center (or left).  his in-laws, though, are hardline righties, so that's probably where he got introduced.

It's funny you mention "right wing corporate media" because one of his biggest beefs is the left-biased media.  All kinds of studies showing left bias--even Fox is slightly left of center!
* Religion: institutionalized superstition, period.

"Many of my ultra-conservative Republican friends...have trouble accepting the idea God is not a Republican. " ~OldChurchGuy

"We humans may never figure out the truth, but I prefer trying to find it over pretending we know it."  ~ParkingPlaces

Offline Boots

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Re: Yuri Bezmenov
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2013, 07:07:22 PM »
Thank you, Greybeard.  this is an outstanding synopsis.  With your permission, I'd like to cut/paste it (not as my words!) to my relative.

I also like the hidden pun (how the communists capitalized on McCarthyism)  8)
* Religion: institutionalized superstition, period.

"Many of my ultra-conservative Republican friends...have trouble accepting the idea God is not a Republican. " ~OldChurchGuy

"We humans may never figure out the truth, but I prefer trying to find it over pretending we know it."  ~ParkingPlaces

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Yuri Bezmenov
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2013, 08:53:30 AM »
Thank you, Greybeard.  this is an outstanding synopsis.  With your permission, I'd like to cut/paste it (not as my words!) to my relative.
Help yourself to anything here.

Quote
I also like the hidden pun (how the communists capitalized on McCarthyism)  8)

Well spotted.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”