Author Topic: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...  (Read 14675 times)

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Offline Nam

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #319 on: October 09, 2013, 02:43:14 PM »
You don't like Woody Allen? You're just begging for another negative Darwin...

I like him but not his excessive talking, or the fact that other actors mimic him in his films even when he's in the film. Like Scarlet Johannson did in Scoop.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #320 on: October 09, 2013, 02:44:48 PM »
You don't like Woody Allen? You're just begging for another negative Darwin...

cough stepdaughter cough soon yi cough mia farrow cough a$$hole cough midlife crisis cough
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #321 on: October 09, 2013, 02:50:17 PM »
To paraphrase Woody Allen, JB thinks she is a chicken, and we need the eggs.... :)

You got your first smite.  Sweet.  I've been considering giving you one for a looooong time just so you'd have one.  I'm glad it wasn't me though.  I think I'll give another one to Parking Places instead, just because I feel like destroying something beautiful.
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Offline Nam

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #322 on: October 09, 2013, 03:07:03 PM »
My first smite (on here, not the old forum) was from SERPENT KILLA for pointing out 2 Corinthians; about how Christians aren't supposed to witness to unbelievers (us). He said I misinterpreted the verse, and that I didn't know what I was talking about.

Good times.

First by an atheist was either "ungod", or Hatter.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.

Offline Chronos

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #323 on: October 09, 2013, 04:22:22 PM »
Also, Buddhism is a "spiritual" practice, but it does not require a god belief. Many Buddhists are atheists, including a friend of mine who is studying to become a Buddhist chaplain.

There are Catholic priests who do not believe in god, but they go with the flow anyway.

John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline mrbiscoop

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #324 on: October 09, 2013, 06:51:24 PM »
You don't like Woody Allen? You're just begging for another negative Darwin...
Liking Woody Allen should get you a negative Darwin.
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Offline Traveler

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #325 on: October 09, 2013, 07:09:58 PM »
Also, Buddhism is a "spiritual" practice, but it does not require a god belief. Many Buddhists are atheists, including a friend of mine who is studying to become a Buddhist chaplain.

There are Catholic priests who do not believe in god, but they go with the flow anyway.

And call it a virtue for sticking with it as a "test of faith." Among her other "sins" Mother Theresa had lost her faith but kept pretending. Apparently, they see this as praise worthy.  :o
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Offline Zankuu

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #326 on: October 09, 2013, 08:39:33 PM »
Liking Woody Allen should get you a negative Darwin.
mrbiscoop! Not you too? The man is charm incarnate.

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #327 on: October 10, 2013, 04:15:25 AM »
Look I'm not going to respond to each one of you.  I am only going to say this.  Don't expect something from others that you are not willing to give. I have listened more to y'all than y'all have me, so quit complaining already. 

I have never said I was morally superior than any body here because I believe in God.  That's what y'all are saying.  When I first got here y'all told me God wasn't needed for a person to have good moral judgement.  Well where I come from it is not morally good to talk about smacking people or telling someone to go on to heaven since it's so wonderful.  That's the same as saying drop dead.  Calling people stupid, idiot, delusional, lack of critical thinking; my favorite one.  Yea, I read some bad interpretations here from theists, Skywriter comes to mind, but y'all are over the top with the jokes and sarcasm.  Why can't you just simply say that contradicts Love.  Love is more important than convincing someone that the earth is older than the bible.  Love will change people for the better.  Not this stuff.

Ok Nam you're right I made it all up.  I hope that makes you smile.  :)

Screw you are relentless.  I am not religious.  O wait a minute yes I am.  Hope you're smiling. :) 

As far as why I'm here I've told you all before.  I care about the world I live in.  I care about you.  We both hate religion. 

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #328 on: October 10, 2013, 04:30:50 AM »
As a question.
Would you say that your god is indeed the one true god?
Or perhaps a god, and there are more?
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Offline junebug72

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #329 on: October 10, 2013, 04:44:30 AM »
As a question.
Would you say that your god is indeed the one true god?
Or perhaps a god, and there are more?

I do not know.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #330 on: October 10, 2013, 04:51:34 AM »
I have not been paying much attention (sorry...), but do you believe this god of yours made the universe?
Or anything for that matter?
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Offline junebug72

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #331 on: October 10, 2013, 04:55:17 AM »
I believe God and universe is one.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #332 on: October 10, 2013, 04:56:54 AM »
So you say everything is god?
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline junebug72

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #333 on: October 10, 2013, 05:03:20 AM »
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline wheels5894

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #334 on: October 10, 2013, 05:23:19 AM »
I believe God and universe is one.
\

So you don't think god is everything yet you equate it with the universe which is everything. I really don't quirte get where you are going with this. Could you be more precise?
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Offline Chronos

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #335 on: October 10, 2013, 06:38:18 AM »
Look I'm not going to respond to each one of you.  I am only going to say this.  Don't expect something from others that you are not willing to give. I have listened more to y'all than y'all have me, so quit complaining already.

I have listened to you very little and responded even less. I am not complaining about anything regarding your posts. You seem to run hot/cold or high/low or positive/negative ... moody. I don't know if that's an established part of your personality, a consequence of cancer treatment or the ongoing internal conflict with your own beliefs. It is what it is.


I have never said I was morally superior than any body here because I believe in God. That's what y'all are saying. 

Perhaps you haven't, and no I'm not. Do realize, however, that many people who believe in a god hold themselves morally superior to anyone who identifies as an atheist solely because someone identifies as an atheist and not because they have analyzed the speech and actions of atheists. Whether believers express it openly or passively by their actions, most people who express a belief in a god find themselves morally superior to those who don't. About 20 years ago, these expressions of moral superiority would have been open and brutal. Nowadays, they are less open and less brutal because it is becoming, however gradually, politically incorrect to express such moral superiority. Instead of doing it on the streets in front of homes or schools, it is now done from behind a pulpit in church, the pulpit of a television camera, or the unseen pulpit of a keyboard attached to the internet. Nevertheless, it still occurs and we put up with it. Moral superiority is the modus operandi of Christians -- without it they have no leg upon which to stand.


When I first got here y'all told me God wasn't needed for a person to have good moral judgement.  Well where I come from it is not morally good to talk about smacking people or telling someone to go on to heaven since it's so wonderful.  That's the same as saying drop dead.

Have you heard the phrase "the pot calling the kettle black"?

Given my response above about "god-fearing Christians" reacting to believers, we often have believers drop by, tell us their testimony or some other anecdote about why they believe in god, and usually not long after tell us that we are going to go to hell or it's equivalent euphemism such as "you will spend an eternity in darkness" or "you will spend an eternity in sin" ... I'm sure there are other euphemisms but I try to ignore and forget them. What I don't forget is the implication, directly or indirectly, that we are "going to hell" or that we are already there.

While I have not told you to "drop dead", nor have I implied it and nor do I care to, I am sure that I am not alone in that circumstance. Plenty of caring people on this forum do not tell others to drop dead. You have to live with a loud-mouth or two whether it is on this forum, one of your neighbors or somebody at your church. Your over-reaction to such loudmouths is again proof of either your innate moodiness or an indirect expression of your internal conflict -- I'm not sure which. If you were confident in your beliefs and comfortable with them, you would not allow such attacks to bother you so much. Yet, you do.


Calling people stupid, idiot, delusional, lack of critical thinking; my favorite one.  Yea, I read some bad interpretations here from theists, Skywriter comes to mind, but y'all are over the top with the jokes and sarcasm.  Why can't you just simply say that contradicts Love.  Love is more important than convincing someone that the earth is older than the bible.  Love will change people for the better.  Not this stuff.

Please define love. Exactly what is it? Since I can love my spouse, my child, my dog, a good beer, music, architecture ... I have to ask you, since this "love" is all the world needs and all that people need to share, what exactly is this "love"?

You won't be able to define it, not even for yourself. Nobody has ever been able to define love. The closest you can really get is "deep affection for something or someone". What is this "affection"? How does one achieve affection? It's personal choice -- often an innate choice. There are certain things you love naturally, others you hate. There are certain people or things you grow affection for. Still, you cannot define what "love" is.

Unless you can define what love is and know exactly how to acquire it, the term "love" is entirely useless when talking about how to treat other people and things. Why? You sometimes have to treat other people and things with a level of respect that you muster deep inside in spite of the fact that you don't love them. In fact, you may hate them but you will treat them better than your hate. Isn't this what Jesus professed? If you agree that Jesus professed this, then you know that inherently you cannot love everything, but you are supposed to treat everything as though you love it. Therefore, Jesus recognized that "love" is undefinable, illusive and fleeting. "Love" is a personal term and it's meaning cannot be transferred to others.


Ok Nam you're right I made it all up.  I hope that makes you smile.  :)

Without having read this entire post before responding I figured that Nam was the person who was agitating you the most. The report system is full of sparks where your blade hits his sharpener. The two of you feed off each other. Why can't you express unconditional "love" for Nam? Isn't that what Jesus would do?

Screw you are relentless.  I am not religious.  O wait a minute yes I am.  Hope you're smiling. :) 

Screws are circular so their reach is never-ending. Sometimes people screw, and it's fun. You might "love" it. Sometimes people get screwed and hate it. I hope you still love Screw anyway.

As far as why I'm here I've told you all before.  I care about the world I live in.  I care about you.  We both hate religion.

If you care about the world in which you live then you will approach it with as much "love" as you can personally muster, which means you may have to deal with it in ways that do not come naturally to you.


« Last Edit: October 10, 2013, 10:24:05 PM by Chronos »
John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline Boots

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #336 on: October 10, 2013, 08:51:14 AM »
Look I'm not going to respond to each one of you.  I am only going to say this.  Don't expect something from others that you are not willing to give. I have listened more to y'all than y'all have me, so quit complaining already.

Not sure I agree with that, but I won't pursue it further...

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When I first got here y'all told me God wasn't needed for a person to have good moral judgement.  Well where I come from it is not morally good to talk about smacking people or telling someone to go on to heaven since it's so wonderful.  That's the same as saying drop dead. 

I know I used that phraseology, sort of (can't recall if it was on this thread as I've done it more than once, and I'm too lazy to look back)--but wording it as you have above completely misses the point.  I firmly believe that one should never end one's own life unless they're facing a terminal, debilitating condition and there is no hope for a "meaningful life" (definition of which is entirely on the individual).  My brother took his own life in 2005 and the world is a decidedly worse place for his loss.  My reason for taking that tack is to let the individual making the "life without god has no meaning" know that the prospect of eternal bliss in a blessed afterlife is what takes away meaning in THIS life.  If one really, honestly believes that they're going To A Better Place to live in eternal peace and happiness, WHY STAY HERE????  If one really believes that one is going to heaven, it makes ZERO SENSE to not end your time on this earth.  I have yet to hear a satisfactory response on that.

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Calling people stupid, idiot, delusional, lack of critical thinking; my favorite one.  Yea, I read some bad interpretations here from theists, Skywriter comes to mind, but y'all are over the top with the jokes and sarcasm.  Why can't you just simply say that contradicts Love.  Love is more important than convincing someone that the earth is older than the bible.  Love will change people for the better.  Not this stuff.

Maybe to some of us, love IS convincing someone that the earth is older than the bible.  Maybe to some of us, we've seen all sides of the equation (I, for one, have been religious, then "spiritual" without the religion, and then non-religious and non-theist).  We understand the necessary contradictions, the ignoring of cognitive dissonance, and the double-think required to maintain an omnimax god belief, and we find that having our minds freed of that baggage is fulfilling and peaceful.  Maybe to some of us, what is more important than "playing nice" and making someone feel better for the moment is to shine a light on faulty logic and circular reasoning, so that someone can glean some real understanding.

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As far as why I'm here I've told you all before.  I care about the world I live in.  I care about you.  We both hate religion.

I care about the world we live in too.  And I don't see how god belief helps, and I *do* see how it hurts.
* Religion: institutionalized superstition, period.

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Offline Jag

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #337 on: October 10, 2013, 09:19:55 AM »
Look I'm not going to respond to each one of you.  I am only going to say this.  Don't expect something from others that you are not willing to give. I have listened more to y'all than y'all have me, so quit complaining already. 
You listen, but you do not hear. I believe screwtape already pointed that out to you earlier in this thread. You don't pause to consider, you don't take a few minutes and really think about what is being said - you react. And your reactions (your posts) make it clear that you are routinely missing the point.

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<snip>Well where I come from it is not morally good to talk about smacking people or telling someone to go on to heaven since it's so wonderful.  That's the same as saying drop dead. 
It seems that you are confusing "moral" with "being nice" - they are not the same thing. Frankly in many cases, the morally correct answer will be interpreted as "not nice" by the person who's perceived needs or desires are not being met.

As to dying to get to heaven quicker - if believers REALLY believed the crap they claim to believe, this position is the only one that makes any sense at all. Think it through junebug - prove that you understand what is being said.

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Calling people stupid, idiot, delusional, lack of critical thinking; my favorite one. 
Yep, it's certainly not nice to call people stupid, idiot, or delusional - but those descriptive terms exist for a reason. Some people are stupid, idiots, and/or delusional. However, pointing out that someone is not applying critical thinking skills seems to really get under your skin, and I have to wonder why that irks you so much. Critical thinking is a skill that most people do not develop naturally so getting defense about a skill you haven't had the opportunity to develop is like getting mad that you don't score a 300 the third time you bowl. If you understood what I keep pointing out to you you wouldn't keep doing it - you would have the critical thinking skill to see the problem. You don't. It's not an attack for goodness sakes it's an observation.

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Yea, I read some bad interpretations here from theists, Skywriter comes to mind, but y'all are over the top with the jokes and sarcasm.  Why can't you just simply say that contradicts Love. 
Because THAT is YOUR rebuttal.

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Love is more important than convincing someone that the earth is older than the bible.  Love will change people for the better.  Not this stuff.
And love does not require a god. You use the two words to meant the same thing. We don't. Do you see that?

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Ok Nam you're right I made it all up.  I hope that makes you smile.  :)
Why do you continue to respond to Nam? Do you really think it's productive, or do you enjoy the drama?
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Screw you are relentless.  I am not religious.  O wait a minute yes I am.  Hope you're smiling. :) 
Did you even read his post? Did you do more than "listen" to what he was saying to you - did you actually manage to "hear" him? Your reply indicates that you missed the point he was making, again.
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As far as why I'm here I've told you all before.  I care about the world I live in.  I care about you.  We both hate religion.
That doesn't actually answer the question either, but we were really just speculating anyway.
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline Nam

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #338 on: October 10, 2013, 10:27:12 AM »
Jag,

You're wasting your breath (or fingers). If she replies to you, she'll contradict everything you say, probably smite you again because now you're no better than me: a big meanie.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.

Offline Jag

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #339 on: October 10, 2013, 10:45:44 AM »
I know, I know. I should just walk away - we've been having essentially the same conversation for months and getting absolutely nowhere. I keep hoping that she reads something during some random moment when she doesn't have (metaphorically, of course) both hands covering her ears, bellowing "lalala, I can't hear you" and it penetrates her defenses so she actually understands a point being made to her. Any point.

But yes, I fully expect that the worst possible interpretation will be put on my words, and nothing will change. I'd even be fine with being a big meanie if I thought it would help get through to her.

You, on the other hand, actually are a big meanie sometimes  >:(. That alone isn't enough to make you wrong though  ;).
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline Nam

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #340 on: October 10, 2013, 11:19:29 AM »
I know, right? Doesn't it suck?[1]

;)

-Nam
 1. on me being right when a "big meanie".
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.

Offline median

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #341 on: October 10, 2013, 11:46:51 AM »
FACT: The "big meanie" atheists were the ones who caused me to first start doubting when I was a fundy.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Online Dante

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #342 on: October 10, 2013, 01:33:56 PM »
I believe God and universe is one.

 Could you be more precise?

Seriously wheels? What part do you not understand? I mean, June is as clear as can be! Just ask her, she'll tell ya!

I'm tired of you telling me it's my fault people don't understand me.  I speak very clearly and carefully if they're not getting it it's not because I'm not saying the right words. 
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #343 on: October 10, 2013, 01:34:33 PM »
Yep, it's certainly not nice to call people stupid, idiot, or delusional - but those descriptive terms exist for a reason. Some people are stupid, idiots, and/or delusional. However, pointing out that someone is not applying critical thinking skills seems to really get under your skin, and I have to wonder why that irks you so much. Critical thinking is a skill that most people do not develop naturally so getting defense about a skill you haven't had the opportunity to develop is like getting mad that you don't score a 300 the third time you bowl. If you understood what I keep pointing out to you you wouldn't keep doing it - you would have the critical thinking skill to see the problem. You don't. It's not an attack for goodness sakes it's an observation.
The bowling analogy is a bit off.  It's more like her getting mad at someone else pointing out to her that she didn't score a 300 the third time she bowled.  Then that person asks her why she's mad that she did not get a 300, she'll throw a little temper tantrum and claim that she did get a 300.  Then when the person asks to see the scorecard, she'll throw another little temper tantrum, probably say something close to the lines of emotional manipulation, and claim that she's right and you're wrong, insert some unrelated bullshit about 'oh I believe in love' or some other non-defined platitude to make sure she can sound nice.  Rinse, repeat.  Probably for 30 some odd pages of a thread.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline Nam

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #344 on: October 10, 2013, 01:38:18 PM »
Glad y'all are catching up to my viewpoint of Junebug a few months ago.

:P

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.

Offline Boots

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #345 on: October 10, 2013, 01:40:06 PM »
Jag,

...now you're no better than me...

-Nam

Wow, Jag, dem's fitin woids!!   ;)
* Religion: institutionalized superstition, period.

"Many of my ultra-conservative Republican friends...have trouble accepting the idea God is not a Republican. " ~OldChurchGuy

"We humans may never figure out the truth, but I prefer trying to find it over pretending we know it."  ~ParkingPlaces

Offline Nam

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #346 on: October 10, 2013, 01:43:48 PM »
Words out of context.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously.

Offline epidemic

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Re: Without God, Life Has No Meaning...
« Reply #347 on: October 10, 2013, 02:58:22 PM »
So does life have meaning regardless of their being a GOD?

Does life really have no meaning with or without a GOD?

In the grand scheme of things it appears as if Life does not have meaning AFAIAC.  Speaking in terms of an atheist view, the world will come, be around for a few billion years and then be swallowed up by the sun.  Voyager1 & 2 will probably find themselve crashing into a star, planet, black hole or Asteroid at some point x billion years from now.  All radio communications will have dissapated to below the background noise never to be heard.  In the grand scheme of things our existence will have meant nothing except for the time we are here.

From a theist Standpoint, we are here as part of God's plan, our value to that plan is unknown, our state of memory, and continued existence are in doubt in that we don't know what we will be after death.  Our toils here on Earth are irrelevant in heaven near as I can tell but for possibly setting up your standing when you die.