Author Topic: Another Question  (Read 258 times)

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Offline Nam

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Another Question
« on: September 15, 2013, 01:10:50 PM »
With most of the grand stories of the OT seeming to be pure fiction, I'm wondering if Hebrewism, the life and times, the histories, the people themselves are fiction? Not that Jews didn't or do not exist but Hebrews.  Perhaps Jewish scholars back then made them up.

Just wondering...

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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Another Question
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2013, 02:15:58 PM »
I just read a short little article about how the world changed when people started living to be 30 years old. Because they had then lived long enough to be grandparents, and hence long enough to pass on their lifetime of knowledge to their grandchildren.

http://kottke.org/13/09/the-invention-of-old-people

Now if you're an old fart and you're trying to make an impression on a young kid, are you going to make all of your stories boring? Are you going to admit you don't know everything? Since they didn't have coins to pull out of kids ears back then, they had to come up with something else. So I suspect the stories from old people, over time, got more and more fantastic. And of course, since humans were involved, the assholes amongst them started power tripping and using said tall tales to scare the pre-jesus out of 'em. And as civilization got more structured via agriculture 10,000 years ago, they whole thing got official sounding and poof, we were all enslaved by lies and imagination.

Of course a little bit of reality had to be included in the stories or they would sound, you know, unreal. So there is probably some truth in the older texts, in the sense the people and places mentioned might oft-times have existed. But once the burning bushes started talking, or whatever, they were off in la-la land.

So I suspect the old hebrew texts have some measurable truth in them. Outside of the religious claims, that is.

Note: This is my feeble bachelors degree in sociology talking, combined with my old person mind that thinks it knows everything. So it is all speculation. But I must warn you, I'm darned good at speculation. And if you don't like it, I'll steal all the coins out of your ears!
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Nam

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Re: Another Question
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2013, 03:50:03 PM »
The places, some of them at least, are identifiable today, like actual buildings and rivers, cities, countries etc., and people did exist back then, that's also verifiable but with all the stories of the OT seemingly been shown, with evidence, of never happening then can't one assume that Hebrews never existed.

Take Mormonism. Their book states Mormons (or who they're descended from, Hebrews but their Native American connection) have existed in the US for a couple of thousand years but there's no evidence for it, except evidence they have under lock and key.

Did the Romans keep any actual records of Hebrews? The Egyptians? Are the records before Judaism got noticed, or after?

If major Hebrews can he shown more likely to never had existed, did any of them actually exist?

-Nam
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Offline Nick

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Re: Another Question
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2013, 04:05:14 PM »
They did some DNA study that proved the lost tribe of Israel the Mormons said were here in N. America is not factual.  But then again this is religion.  Most if not all of it, especially the Old Testament, is made up shit, most of it taken from stories from other cultures.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline Nam

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Re: Another Question
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2013, 04:58:27 PM »
They did some DNA study that proved the lost tribe of Israel the Mormons said were here in N. America is not factual.  But then again this is religion.  Most if not all of it, especially the Old Testament, is made up shit, most of it taken from stories from other cultures.

So, it's quite probable that Hebrews never existed? And, if that's true then doesn't that ultimately conclude that the god of bible is false[1], and subsequent religions born from it?

-Nam
 1. based in the point-of-view of them being religions based in history that is considered factual by many people
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Another Question
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2013, 10:17:28 PM »
There was a "lost tribe" of jews found and identified/confirmed in southern Africa a few years ago. They themselves claimed to be decendants of one of the lost tribes of Israel  and genetically, though black, they were clearly also jewish.

I'll provide the link. You be the judge:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8550614.stm

The jewish traditions came from somewhere, and can be traced back a long ways. I personally assume that the hebrews did indeed exist. They weren't right about the god stuff, of course, but they took it seriously then, just as many take it seriously now. And I have no reason to think that their whole history was faked. But I don't know enough about the details to make blanket statements either way.
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Nam

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Re: Another Question
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2013, 11:15:49 PM »
I'm reminded of Thomas Chatterton. He created a person out of thin air, gave him personality, a collection of his own works and Chatterton fooled many people, even intelligent ones, that this person actually existed when he actually didn't; all the imagination of Chatterton.

I know a lot of people like to say that Hebrews, Christians, even Muslims and other religious people way back then were just farmers, and laborers of some kind but the thing is, many laborers today are just like them but afforded, perhaps, more in life in concern to educational opportunities. So, for some back then could it not be held true?

If Plato, Socrates, Da Vinci, etc., were brought from the past to today[1], would they been seen as intelligent people or just less educated to the average farmer here?

For all we know, Socrates invented Plato. How do we know that Plato existed but for Socrates? Or other contemporaries of Socrates? We don't. There's whole history of Plato that could be made up.

Not saying Hebrewism didn't exist but what if it didn't? What if it's a concoction of some Jews; probably best if they were because the Judaism really has nothing too in common with Hebrewism. Hebrews were a warring nation. When were the Jews?

-Nam
 1. on the predication that time-travel is possible
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