Author Topic: this should be fun  (Read 691 times)

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Offline screwtape

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this should be fun
« on: September 13, 2013, 11:49:38 AM »
I found a bullshit xian site that seeks to answer atheism "head on".  Yeah, they sure are intellectual bad-asses.  It is called "Iloveatheists.com"  First they have what they think are atheists' top 100 arguments against xianity.  If you click them, you get their answers.  As you can imagine, they are not very satisfying.

Then they have "Questions for Atheists"
http://iloveatheists.com/top_100/challenge_category/Questions%20for%20Atheists/challenge_answer/288
here is a sample:
Quote
TRUTH
1.    What or whom do you consider to be YOUR chosen intellectual starting point, your supreme authority for knowledge, your final standard for truth?  Why?
2.    Would you consider turning skepticism on itself and examine your own assumptions?
3.    If God exists, could Christianity be exclusively true?

MATTER IN MOTION
1.    Is the material reality the only reality (are we just material creatures in a material world and nothing more)?
2.    Is reductive materialism synonymous with reason and science? Why?

AFTERLIFE
1.    What happens after we die?
2.    Do you KNOW there is nothing more beyond death? How?
3.    Isn’t the Christian’s hope for heaven a better bet than the atheist’s hope there is no hell?
4.    If God does exist as Biblically revealed, would hindsight on Judgment Day render Christians inappropriately prejudiced or gullible?

SUPERNATURAL
1.    Is there a supernatural realm, a reality that lies outside sense perception and outside the reach of modern science? If not, how do you know?
2.    Is God a byproduct of wishful thinking? Why?

MIRACLES
1.    Can bona fide miracles happen?  If not, why not?
2.    If a Supernatural Transcendent Causal Agent does exist, with or without our acknowledgment, and if He (let's say) was so powerful that He could think all Universal matter, space, time and energy into existence from nothing, wouldn't creating life, parting the Red Sea, turning water into wine, healing the sick, revealing His nature through Divinely inspired Biblical authors and raising a Loved One from the dead be child's play? (Yes or No)

SCIENCE
1.    Is science the only means of gaining reliable knowledge? Why?
2.    Is belief in God a byproduct of ignoring science? Why?
3.    Does faith in God mean one has to relinquish science and reason?
4.    Can scientific claims be faith-based?

ORIGINS
1.    Do you believe that the Universe expanded from a primordial hot and dense initial condition at some finite time in the past and continues to expand to this day?
2.    Rewinding back to the origin of the Universe, how much matter can be put into zero spatial volume?
3.    If a Supernatural Transcendent Causal Agent does NOT exist, what brought the Universe into existence?
4.    Can you provide EMPIRICAL evidence for ANYTHING spontaneously appearing out of nowhere?
5.    What is your best explanation for the origins of intelligent life? Why?

DESIGN & ORDER
1.    If there is no God, how do you explain the high degree of design and order in the Universe?

EVOLUTION
1.    Is the theory of evolution THE refutation to divine creation? Why?
2.    Is the theory of macro-evolution a scientific fact? How do you know?
3.    Aren’t our genetic components exactly the same as mice, not apes? Wouldn’t that make our common ancestor more likely to be a mouse based on evolutionary theory?
4.    In relation to all other ‘descendents’, why are the following ‘Cultural Big Bangs’ unique only to the human species?

a. Creating and wearing clothing
b. Creating and wearing jewelery
c. Creating and using advanced tools
d. Creating and dancing to music
e. Creating and cherishing art
f.  Linguistic evolution
g. Creating symbols and writing languages
h. Writing about the future
i. Succeeding agriculturally
j. Celebrating birth
k. Burying the dead
l. Worshiping God(s)


FOSSIL RECORD
1.    How do you account for the Cambrian Explosion?  What is your evidence?
2.    Can you provide specific evidence for species-to-species transitional forms in the fossil record?

ARCHAEOLOGY
1.    How do you account for the vast archaeological documentation of Biblical stories, places, and people?

 INFORMATION
1.    Regarding the information encoded in DNA, if a supernatural transcendent Almighty God did not author it, what did?  How do you know?
2.    Do you object to the notion of Intelligent Design because of your lack of religious values?


there are more at the site.

Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline Zankuu

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2013, 12:20:22 PM »
Their tag-line is funny. "I love atheists, just not their worldview." If the site was called godlovesatheists.com, I bet the tag-line would read "God loves atheists, just not when they send themselves to hell."  ;D

According to this site I'm a lapsed Christian? Odd term.
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2013, 12:27:35 PM »
Should we, as a group, work on a set of answers? Or should those of us so inclined answer whatever we want and email the dude, while posting our responses here? Any suggestions, screwtape?

This is a lot easier than spending a week with one of our drive-by theists, trying to figure out what the heck he believes in the first place so we can respond in his language. I don't know if the site in question is a fundy or not, but I don't have to care. I love one-sided conversations.
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Offline Zankuu

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2013, 12:51:47 PM »
Should we, as a group, work on a set of answers?

Fun idea. I'd be down for it. Under Contact Us he has a category called "Submit a Challenge" where we could reply to the list of 100.
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline neopagan

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2013, 01:01:55 PM »
I think a group response would be fun.  Since atheists now have a "doctrine" (??), can we quote from Tom Sawyer as our special priveledge book?
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline screwtape

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2013, 01:18:21 PM »
Any suggestions, screwtape?

well, here's a thought -  there was an email address.  We could cluster bomb his inbox.  Everyone does his or her own set of answers.  And then at a specified time on a specified date, we deliver them.  Not that that would do anything.  Just, you know, "surprise!"  Or coordinate and send one a day.

If we feel ambitious we could refute their idiotic 100 answers, one at a time.
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2013, 01:26:54 PM »
We should come up with a list of members who would like to participate in a group response, and that each of us could take a set of questions, a different category for each person. Or just randomly splilt up the questions between us. I didn't see any I would hate to try answering. And I have dibs on ton the caterpillar one in his f"Just curious" section. Yea, right, like he's curious about anything.

Or each of us could try answering whatever questions interest us the most and then we could edit together a response. But that sounds like a lot of work, and hey, without a church potluck involved, who's gonna bother with that?

I'm in, however we do it. But gimme the caterpillar one fer sure.

You posted your bomb the mailbox suggestion while I was writing this. I think he might just toss them all if he got too much to read at the same time. I assume he hasn't even read the whole bible yet. That would be so unlike a christian.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2013, 01:28:26 PM »
I'd say everyone answer all his questions.  They are simple enough.

Then, to refute the "dumb 100" we break it up.
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Offline Nick

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2013, 01:37:37 PM »
I don't know if he would toss them.  The site does say they love us.  I feel special. ;)
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Offline Quesi

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2013, 01:45:36 PM »
It seems pretty clear that this list was created by a committee, or by one of those activities in which people break into groups and come up with lists together.

The "voice" and tone really varies.  And some of the questions are HUGE.

Are there any practical benefits to atheism?  If so, what are they and why?


That question could be addressed in a doctoral dissertation.



And some questions are finite and irrelevant. 

Would you be willing to read the Gospel of John, just once, as if it were true and Jesus was smart?


Some questions look like Christian temper tantrums. 

If you ARE God’s creation, isn’t it true your present attitude is unfair to Him? Insulting, actually?  And you thus have very good reason to deny His existence because you deserve punishment for your utter disregard?

and

Do you object to the notion of Intelligent Design because of your lack of religious values?


And then of course, there is the pseudo intellectual stuff:

Rewinding back to the origin of the Universe, how much matter can be put into zero spatial volume?

and

Is reductive materialism synonymous with reason and science? Why?

And then there is the random bizarre stuff, like the story of the doctor raping the woman under anesthesia, and questions about why animals don't wear clothes or worship gods. 

I honestly could not stay focused enough to jump all over the place and attempt to address these disparate questions.  One minute I would be really attempting to address a huge question, and the next minute just laughing at the absurdity of the next question.  Kudos to anyone who can!


Offline viocjit

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2013, 02:05:20 PM »
I like theirs stupid questions.
Example :
AFTERLIFE
1.    What happens after we die?
Nobody know. Personally I think that there are no afterlife. You're Christian that doesn't mean that you know that there an afterlife , because you can only believe it. As a former Christian I can say to you that I was an Agnostic theist because Christianity haven't proofs of its claims.
2.    Do you KNOW there is nothing more beyond death? How?
See 1.
3.    Isn’t the Christian’s hope for heaven a better bet than the atheist’s hope there is no hell?
Atheists don't hope that there are no hell. They think that this place doesn't exist likewise about heaven. If the hope of heaven is a better bet do you have another argument that Pascal's wager ?
4.    If God does exist as Biblically revealed, would hindsight on Judgment Day render Christians inappropriately prejudiced or gullible?
This is difficult to say. Can you give more details ?

Offline neopagan

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2013, 02:08:50 PM »
Yeah, the questions were all over the board and some of them, 90% of the jeezus freaks could not answer... (see Quesi's zero spatial volume or reductive materialism)

I mean, hell, most of them only read a few select verses from Genesis, Isaiah, the gospels, Acts, Romans and Revelation 21.  Throw in some eductional shows like Flip This House and Are You Smarter than a Fifth Grader and you are at the end of the standard fundie intellectual rope.
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2013, 02:18:52 PM »
Kudos to anyone who can!

These are ideal for my short attention span.

Now where was I.
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Offline Astreja

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #13 on: September 13, 2013, 02:32:22 PM »
I noticed that most of the questions can be answered with one of the following:

  • Burden of proof is on you.
  • Possible but vanishingly unlikely, so I'm not going to worry about it.
  • How do you know that {insert god of choice} didn't do that?
  • Please learn the difference between abiogenesis and evolution.
  • Not true.  {link to evidence}
  • Are too transitional fossils, so there, nyah.
  • That's just plain silly.
  • You keep saying that word {information | documentation | empirical | (other)}.  I don't think it means what you think it means.
  • Learn some real science, you dumbass, or STFU about it.
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2013, 03:43:03 PM »
^^^ Of course, that applies to about 90% of the theists who show up here. At least this guy has his delusions organized.
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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2013, 04:14:20 PM »
OP,

I got bored reading by Supernatural. It doesn't seem intellectually written. One part made me think of Madonna, now I'm going to have the song stuck in my head.

Anyway, yeah they love atheists, know nothing about the majority of them, and apparently want stupid people in their religion not that isn't the case already. You'd have to be stupid to acceptingly believe the shit they spew.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2013, 04:19:11 PM »
^^^ I'm pretty sure those of us who want to respond are not doing it for the sake of the public interest. We wanna hassle 'em. If they weren't stupid about this stuff, it would be no fun.

And the day we get a believer who say he's looked at all the facts and theories and understands that the scientific argument is far more compelling than the religious one, but he just wants to think there is a Jesus, we won't have anything to argue about anyway. So the only ones we can play with are all the rest of them.
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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2013, 04:25:53 PM »
^^^ I'm pretty sure those of us who want to respond are not doing it for the sake of the public interest. We wanna hassle 'em. If they weren't stupid about this stuff, it would be no fun.

I didn't read the rest of the replies to the OP until I replied to the OP.

My idea would be to the serious questions: respond sardonically. To the stupid questions: respond intelligently.

Quote
And the day we get a believer who say he's looked at all the facts and theories and understands that the scientific argument is far more compelling than the religious one, but he just wants to think there is a Jesus, we won't have anything to argue about anyway. So the only ones we can play with are all the rest of them.

Yes, but I'd rather them come here. Going there I'd have to use one of my sock puppet e-mail accounts, and I don't think I remember those passwords.

;)

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2013, 01:29:15 AM »
I started playing around with some answers and it got old fast. I'm starting to think Nam was right. It's more fun to do it here.

I was writing away and started thinking about how easy it would be for the blogger to hit the trash button on my email after reading just the first sentence of my reply. And I'd never know. I've got better things to do.



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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2013, 02:18:08 AM »
I started playing around with some answers and it got old fast. I'm starting to think Nam was right. It's more fun to do it here.

I was writing away and started thinking about how easy it would be for the blogger to hit the trash button on my email after reading just the first sentence of my reply. And I'd never know. I've got better things to do.

Either that, or you'd get religious e-mail bombing your account.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Mrjason

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2013, 05:16:47 AM »
I was reading about an answer to this recently

Quote
Evolution
4
In relation to all other ‘descendents’, why are the following ‘Cultural Big Bangs’ unique only to the human species?


http://www.archaeologyuk.org/ba/ba66/feat1.shtml

Neanderthals are a sub species of homo sapien sure but they ain't modern humans and we have evidence that they displayed all of the "Cultural Big Bangs". So they're not unique to homo sapien sapiens

Is this an argument or just semantics on the definition of human?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 05:29:23 AM by Mrjason »

Offline Mrjason

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2013, 05:41:23 AM »
OP,

I got bored reading by Supernatural. It doesn't seem intellectually written. One part made me think of Madonna, now I'm going to have the song stuck in my head.

Anyway, yeah they love atheists, know nothing about the majority of them, and apparently want stupid people in their religion not that isn't the case already. You'd have to be stupid to acceptingly believe the shit they spew.

-Nam

Damn you nam, I'v got the same song stuck in my head now  >:(

Offline neopagan

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2013, 09:10:57 AM »
I would think they will trash most responses they don't bother to like after the first line from satan's henchfolk. 

That is why a group response "might" have some weight.  Maybe something his screwness sends that says: "on behalf of  the members  of WWGHA, I (as a highly paid admin with the constant ear of our intimately involved site founder) wanted to give you our reasoned response to your query...  WWGHA posts all replies from christians and appreciates their input, so we were willing to reciprocate..."  :)
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline wheels5894

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2013, 09:55:49 AM »
Well I registered on the site (under the username icedbun) but I can't see anywhere to discuss or try and answer their rather intellectual points that, as someone else mentioned, might be well past the capability of many Christians. Maybe I'll get some more information by meail about the site.
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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2013, 01:33:31 PM »
OP,

I got bored reading by Supernatural. It doesn't seem intellectually written. One part made me think of Madonna, now I'm going to have the song stuck in my head.

Anyway, yeah they love atheists, know nothing about the majority of them, and apparently want stupid people in their religion not that isn't the case already. You'd have to be stupid to acceptingly believe the shit they spew.

-Nam

Damn you nam, I'v got the same song stuck in my head now  >:(

Don't blame me, blame them.

;)

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Traveler

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2013, 11:20:35 AM »
Well I registered on the site (under the username icedbun) but I can't see anywhere to discuss or try and answer their rather intellectual points that, as someone else mentioned, might be well past the capability of many Christians. Maybe I'll get some more information by meail about the site.

Yeah, I took a quick look around (didn't register) and didn't see any discussion forum either.
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Offline neopagan

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2013, 11:26:20 AM »
^^^ Methinks they cherry pick the answers they get or just flat out make shit up... 'tis in their nature.
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: this should be fun
« Reply #27 on: September 30, 2013, 12:42:33 PM »
I tried some of the questions just for fun.


TRUTH
1.    What or whom do you consider to be YOUR chosen intellectual starting point, your supreme authority for knowledge, your final standard for truth?  Why?
Independently verifiable evidence, there is nothing better

2.    Would you consider turning skepticism on itself and examine your own assumptions?
I have

3.    If God exists, could Christianity be exclusively true?
A false assumption


SCIENCE
1.    Is science the only means of gaining reliable knowledge? Why?
Yes in the context of the question. It is verifiable

2.    Is belief in God a byproduct of ignoring science? Why?
Partly. Verifiable explanations are excluded

3.    Does faith in God mean one has to relinquish science and reason?
Yes, where they conflict

4.    Can scientific claims be faith-based?
No, they cannot be verified

ORIGINS
1.    Do you believe that the Universe expanded from a primordial hot and dense initial condition at some finite time in the past and continues to expand to this day?
Yes

2.    Rewinding back to the origin of the Universe, how much matter can be put into zero spatial volume?
There was only energy at that moment e=mc2

3.    If a Supernatural Transcendent Causal Agent does NOT exist, what brought the Universe into existence?
Quantum fluctuations in a void

4.    Can you provide EMPIRICAL evidence for ANYTHING spontaneously appearing out of nowhere?
Matter and antimatter around a black hole

5.    What is your best explanation for the origins of intelligent life? Why?
Evolution of a brain, it increases the chances of survival

DESIGN & ORDER
1.    If there is no God, how do you explain the high degree of design and order in the Universe?
There is no design. Order is an abstraction created by humans through an examination of a small piece of the chaotic flow of matter and energy in the universe

EVOLUTION
1.    Is the theory of evolution THE refutation to divine creation? Why?
One of them. There was no Adam and Eve. (The last common ancestor now known through DNA is over 100,000 years before modern humans)

2.    Is the theory of macro-evolution a scientific fact? How do you know?
Yes. DNA proves it.

3.    Aren’t our genetic components exactly the same as mice, not apes? Wouldn’t that make our common ancestor more likely to be a mouse based on evolutionary theory?
No that is incorrect. Our closest cousins are bonobos and chimps

4.    In relation to all other ‘descendents’, why are the following ‘Cultural Big Bangs’ unique only to the human species?
a. Creating and wearing clothing
b. Creating and wearing jewelery
c. Creating and using advanced tools
d. Creating and dancing to music
e. Creating and cherishing art
f.  Linguistic evolution
g. Creating symbols and writing languages
h. Writing about the future
i. Succeeding agriculturally
j. Celebrating birth
k. Burying the dead
l. Worshiping God(s)

They are defined as human attributes in the first place. Why do dolphins have attributes which humans do not? Such as being able to sleep with half the brain at a time so they can stay awake and be active.

FOSSIL RECORD
1.    How do you account for the Cambrian Explosion?  What is your evidence?
Competition and carnivores. The development of defences.

2.    Can you provide specific evidence for species-to-species transitional forms in the fossil record?
Every species is transitional between its ancestors and descendants
« Last Edit: September 30, 2013, 01:21:58 PM by Foxy Freedom »
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