Author Topic: Does God get a fail in the love category?  (Read 10345 times)

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Offline epidemic

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #58 on: September 19, 2013, 10:29:19 AM »
I can only give my personal view of the Godhead I believe in.
It is real while I do not believe in the other Gods on offer. The thing is that the right way to think of God is to set aside whichever God is found otherwise it becomes idol worship and a useless stagnant God or set of rules to live by.

The final view of God should always be unknown to those who seek.

The Godhead I know was born of man and not some alien creator and sure, it would have all of our flaws. It seems to have them under control better than what we do here. Not too surprising as it cannot lie to itself.

If you do not recognize a spiritual side to your psyche, then God should end up meaning the best rules to live by for you. That is all that you can follow and even if you had a God, that is still all that you can know without an apotheosis.

Regards
DL

So god is born of man, as such did not create the universe?  What is gods relevance?

are you saying that god is just a manifestation of man, and that we should just be good people because that is what is good for people.  Or are you saying man created a supernatural being with super powers who must be worshipped.....  I am so confused.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 10:31:25 AM by epidemic »

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #59 on: September 19, 2013, 02:32:27 PM »
I can only give my personal view of the Godhead I believe in.
It is real while I do not believe in the other Gods on offer. The thing is that the right way to think of God is to set aside whichever God is found otherwise it becomes idol worship and a useless stagnant God or set of rules to live by.

The final view of God should always be unknown to those who seek.

The Godhead I know was born of man and not some alien creator and sure, it would have all of our flaws. It seems to have them under control better than what we do here. Not too surprising as it cannot lie to itself.

If you do not recognize a spiritual side to your psyche, then God should end up meaning the best rules to live by for you. That is all that you can follow and even if you had a God, that is still all that you can know without an apotheosis.

Regards
DL

So god is born of man, as such did not create the universe?  What is gods relevance?

are you saying that god is just a manifestation of man, and that we should just be good people because that is what is good for people.  Or are you saying man created a supernatural being with super powers who must be worshipped.....  I am so confused.

Many are.

The God you are thinking of has no relevance here because he is not here and was definitely created by men. Men with poor morals by todays standards.

No God worth the title would need, demand or want anything from man.

Let me repeat.

The Godhead I know in a nutshell.
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.
I then had an apotheosis and later branded myself an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian. Gnostic Christian because I exemplify this quote from William Blake.

“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read'st black where I read white.”

This refers to how Gnostics tend to reverse, for moral reasons, what Christians see in the Bible. We tend to recognize the evil ways of O T God where literal Christians will see God’s killing as good. Christians are sheep where Gnostic Christians are goats.
This is perhaps why we see the use of a Jesus scapegoat as immoral, while theists like to make Jesus their beast of burden. An immoral position.

During my apotheosis, something that only lasted 5 or 6 seconds, the only things of note to happen was that my paradigm of reality was confirmed and I was chastised to think more demographically. What I found was what I call a cosmic consciousness. Not a new term but one that is a close but not exact fit.

I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
This is also why I prefer to stick to issues of morality because no one has yet been able to prove that God is real and I have no more proof than they for the cosmic consciousness.

The cosmic consciousness is not a miracle working God. He does not interfere with us save when one of us finds it. Not a common thing from what I can see. It is a part of nature and our next evolutionary step.

I tend to have more in common with atheists who ignore what they see as my delusion because our morals are basically identical. Theist tend not to like me much as I have no respect for literalists and fundamentals and think that most Christians have tribal mentalities and poor morals.

I am rather between a rock and a hard place but this I cannot help.

I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Regards
DL

Offline Star Stuff

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #60 on: September 19, 2013, 02:39:38 PM »
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.

Ouch.  If you've ceased to be skeptical, you've hung yourself.


The term 'skeptic' does not mean one who doubts, but one who investigates or researches, as opposed to one who asserts and thinks that he has found.  (Miguel De Unamuno)
« Last Edit: September 19, 2013, 03:05:59 PM by Star Stuff »
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #61 on: September 19, 2013, 03:17:50 PM »
I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
Having no proof is also always the way with "made up things", fantasy, fiction, story telling, delusion, and hallucination.  So be careful there.
Quote
I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Regards
DL
I'll then go ahead and ask what some of the characteristics of this 'cosmic consciousness' are, because so far all I've gathered are some things that this 'cosmic consciousness' is not and what this 'cosmic consciousness' doesn't need.  That doesn't help at all.  Flgar'stabab also has no need for love, adoration, or obedience.  He has no needs.  He is also irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do.  The same goes for Qskenalan, Boris the Cosmic Bullet Dodger, Aslan, and, of course, absolutely anything that doesn't exist.

I guess my point is...is there anything more to this belief in yours that goes beyond saying the sentence 'The cosmic consciousness does exist' is true?  Is there any content to this belief of yours?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

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Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #62 on: September 19, 2013, 04:59:31 PM »
I was a skeptic till the age of 39.

Ouch.  If you've ceased to be skeptical, you've hung yourself.


The term 'skeptic' does not mean one who doubts, but one who investigates or researches, as opposed to one who asserts and thinks that he has found.  (Miguel De Unamuno)

I am still skeptical of many things but not on the issue of the existence of God. I was correct on his non-existence before and I am still right today.

Regards
DL






Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #63 on: September 19, 2013, 05:02:23 PM »
I recognize that I have no proof. That is always the way with apotheosis.
Having no proof is also always the way with "made up things", fantasy, fiction, story telling, delusion, and hallucination.  So be careful there.
Quote
I am happy to be questioned on what I believe but whether or not God exists is basically irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do, and I prefer to thrash out moral issues that can actually find an end point. The search for God is never ending when you are of the Gnostic persuasion. My apotheosis basically says that I am to discard whatever God I found, God as a set of rules that is, not idol worship it but instead, raise my bar and seek further.

My apotheosis also showed me that God has no need for love, adoration or obedience. He has no needs. Man has dominion here on earth and is to be and is the supreme being.

Regards
DL
I'll then go ahead and ask what some of the characteristics of this 'cosmic consciousness' are, because so far all I've gathered are some things that this 'cosmic consciousness' is not and what this 'cosmic consciousness' doesn't need.  That doesn't help at all.  Flgar'stabab also has no need for love, adoration, or obedience.  He has no needs.  He is also irrelevant to this world for all that he does not do.  The same goes for Qskenalan, Boris the Cosmic Bullet Dodger, Aslan, and, of course, absolutely anything that doesn't exist.

I guess my point is...is there anything more to this belief in yours that goes beyond saying the sentence 'The cosmic consciousness does exist' is true?  Is there any content to this belief of yours?

Nothing that would satisfy me if I was in your shoes so I doubt that I can give you what would satisfy you.

Regards
DL

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #64 on: September 19, 2013, 06:35:52 PM »
Nothing that would satisfy me if I was in your shoes so I doubt that I can give you what would satisfy you.

Regards
DL
Well I don't have an argument against that.  There is no 'that' to discuss, analyze, or consider.  There is no 'that' to measure or evaluate against other ideas or concepts.  So, I certainly can't provide you with any argument or additional information that would modify your position.

Just to be clear: at this point in time, I would take your statement "God (or Godhead or cosmic consciousness) exists" to be EXACTLY EQUIVALENT TO statements such as:

"Qskenalan exists."
"Boris the Cosmic Bullet Dodger exists."
"Aslan exists."
"The Flying Spaghetti Monster exists."
"(The Artist who was never formerly known as) the Artist formerly known as Prince exists."
"<insert any random arrangement of identifiable symbols, sounds, or other quanta of some method of communication> exists."

I mean, go for it.  Whatever floats your boat.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #65 on: September 20, 2013, 03:36:10 AM »
Nothing that would satisfy me if I was in your shoes so I doubt that I can give you what would satisfy you.

Regards
DL
Well I don't have an argument against that.  There is no 'that' to discuss, analyze, or consider.  There is no 'that' to measure or evaluate against other ideas or concepts.  So, I certainly can't provide you with any argument or additional information that would modify your position.

Just to be clear: at this point in time, I would take your statement "God (or Godhead or cosmic consciousness) exists" to be EXACTLY EQUIVALENT TO statements such as:

"Qskenalan exists."
"Boris the Cosmic Bullet Dodger exists."
"Aslan exists."
"The Flying Spaghetti Monster exists."
"(The Artist who was never formerly known as) the Artist formerly known as Prince exists."
"<insert any random arrangement of identifiable symbols, sounds, or other quanta of some method of communication> exists."

I mean, go for it.  Whatever floats your boat.

Doesn't this mean that any discussion of issues we face in the real world should either (a) not mention ANY god, cosmic-con, Aslan, or any other theorised but unproven entity, or (b) consider all of them equally and (as jdawg points out) give them all equal consideration?

I'd have to vote for (a), otherwise things will get insanely complicated, as (in this thread alone) we would need to look at thousands of entities and ask "does X get a fail in the love category?"
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #66 on: September 20, 2013, 06:51:05 AM »
jdawg70

Now you are talking like a Christian.

Links to the bibles for those God's please.

Regards
DL

Offline Nam

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #67 on: September 20, 2013, 07:54:17 AM »
jdawg70

Now you are talking like a Christian.

Links to the bibles for those God's please.

Regards
DL

So, if a "god" doesn't have a "bible", it's not a "god"?

Idiotic.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline jdawg70

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #68 on: September 20, 2013, 10:39:50 AM »
Now you are talking like a Christian.
I think I need more clarity insofar as how I'm talking like a Christian.  I mean...one of us here is espousing knowledge about the objective existence of an entity that has exactly zero coupling to reality and is only known as true through subjective means, and it isn't me.  So I'm a little confused about this here.
Quote
Links to the bibles for those God's please.

Regards
DL
Not sure of the relevance of the request here, unless, of course, your 'cosmic consciousness' has some bible or bible-equivalent?

Perhaps I'm not clear on what my criticism to you is.  So far as I can tell, your belief has no content.  When you say 'there is a cosmic consciousness', I do not see any information to separate that statement from 'alkjrhtpoihjoafjidloif89768643ji65##%$jhkfgjhkgjl;kifjal;dkjfu8', or 'there is a fuguajdibbald', or 'colorless green ideas sleep furiously'.  What I was hoping to get from you was some bit of information or whatever that differentiates 'there is a cosmic consciousness' from making no statement or claim at all.

Define 'cosmic consciousness'.  Define it more than simply saying 'cosmic consciousness is cosmic consciousness'.  Define it in terms of what it is rather than what it is not.  Otherwise, there is no difference between claiming 'the cosmic consciousness exists' and incoherent babble.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline Star Stuff

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #69 on: September 20, 2013, 10:47:19 AM »
Reminds me of those who use the term "Transcendence".


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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #70 on: September 20, 2013, 10:50:43 AM »
Doesn't this mean that any discussion of issues we face in the real world should either (a) not mention ANY god, cosmic-con, Aslan, or any other theorised but unproven entity, or (b) consider all of them equally and (as jdawg points out) give them all equal consideration?

I'd have to vote for (a), otherwise things will get insanely complicated, as (in this thread alone) we would need to look at thousands of entities and ask "does X get a fail in the love category?"
I'd vote for (a) as well.

Seeking knowledge by assuming any and all claims regarding something are true and lopping off the untrue bits until reality emerges seems...inefficient at best, and mathematically impossible at worst.  I mean, the set of 'all things that might be true', I think, is infinitely large.  Seeing as how it's an uncountable set, there is no confidence that can be established by simply starting with this infinite set and pulling crap out of it.  That why we have to wrap constraints around things when seeking knowledge.  For example, 'must coincide with other sh*t in reality' seems like a pretty damn good starting point for constraining the infinite set of 'all things that might be true'.

<slight tangent> That's why I have major problems with people who say dumb crap like 'but science is limiting' and all that jazz.  Of course it's limiting - we're trying to limit the sh*t we put in our bucket of 'crap we think is true' to just the things that are actually true.</slight tangent>

That's why describing something strictly in terms of what it isn't doesn't really get you all that far.  Seriously, the set of things that are 'not irrelevant to this world for all that it does not do' is literally infinite.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #71 on: September 20, 2013, 11:07:29 AM »
Now you are talking like a Christian.
I think I need more clarity insofar as how I'm talking like a Christian.  I mean...one of us here is espousing knowledge about the objective existence of an entity that has exactly zero coupling to reality and is only known as true through subjective means, and it isn't me.  So I'm a little confused about this here.
Quote
Links to the bibles for those God's please.

Regards
DL
Not sure of the relevance of the request here, unless, of course, your 'cosmic consciousness' has some bible or bible-equivalent?

Perhaps I'm not clear on what my criticism to you is.  So far as I can tell, your belief has no content.  When you say 'there is a cosmic consciousness', I do not see any information to separate that statement from 'alkjrhtpoihjoafjidloif89768643ji65##%$jhkfgjhkgjl;kifjal;dkjfu8', or 'there is a fuguajdibbald', or 'colorless green ideas sleep furiously'.  What I was hoping to get from you was some bit of information or whatever that differentiates 'there is a cosmic consciousness' from making no statement or claim at all.

Define 'cosmic consciousness'.  Define it more than simply saying 'cosmic consciousness is cosmic consciousness'.  Define it in terms of what it is rather than what it is not.  Otherwise, there is no difference between claiming 'the cosmic consciousness exists' and incoherent babble.

My belief has no content and yet you expect I will give you more.

I do not have the time to waste.

Regards
DL

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #72 on: September 20, 2013, 01:39:24 PM »
My belief has no content and yet you expect I will give you more.

I do not have the time to waste.

Regards
DL
Look - it's no skin off my back.  I'm not the one who believes it.

If you don't have the time to waste to, you know, even consider if the thing you believe to be true actually is true, or consider if the thing you believe actually means anything, that's your call.  I just think that associating yourself with a statement such as 'the cosmic consciousness exists' when such a statement is absolutely meaningless is kinda silly.  But people think I'm silly for wearing a jacket in the spring, so whatever.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline Boots

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #73 on: September 20, 2013, 01:55:32 PM »
My belief has no content and yet you expect I will give you more.

I do not have the time to waste.

GIA, jdawg said "as far as he can tell, your belief has no content."  AS FAR AS HE CAN TELL, based on what you've presented so far.  That's why he's asking you to give more.

Sorry to butt in, feel free to ignore if I'm overstepping bounds and what what...
It's one of the reasons I'm an atheist today.  I decided to take my religion seriously, and that's when it started to fall apart for me.
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Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #74 on: September 20, 2013, 02:42:39 PM »
He opined that there was no content and I accepted it as stated.

I will not waste my time on such.

Regards
DL

Offline epidemic

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #75 on: September 20, 2013, 02:53:35 PM »
Junebug,

You indicated that re-incarnation sounded like it was a good system for punishing evil doing.

Could you please tell me your take on the following:

Quote
As for reincarnation being a perfect punishment for transgressions???  How the hell do you conclude that?  With out memories of your former life you will randomly either be good or bad over and over till chemistry and lifes lottery allows you to be good.

Maybe in 30 lifetimes I might end up on the right side of Karma, brought up in the right house, correct moral lessons of my parents, correct financial standing, an uncle who did not rape me and all things coming together to make me a good person. 

But absent memory we are subject to pure random nature of our lot in life.
 


Offline junebug72

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #76 on: September 21, 2013, 05:43:14 AM »
Junebug,

You indicated that re-incarnation sounded like it was a good system for punishing evil doing.

Could you please tell me your take on the following:

Quote
As for reincarnation being a perfect punishment for transgressions???  How the hell do you conclude that?  With out memories of your former life you will randomly either be good or bad over and over till chemistry and lifes lottery allows you to be good.

Maybe in 30 lifetimes I might end up on the right side of Karma, brought up in the right house, correct moral lessons of my parents, correct financial standing, an uncle who did not rape me and all things coming together to make me a good person. 

But absent memory we are subject to pure random nature of our lot in life.


All I can say on the subject is that it seems a lot more appropriate than eternal hell fire. 

I hope your uncle did not really rape you.  If so I'm sorry to hear it.  More than likely also a victim. 

I don't think the afterlife is so much about punishment or rewards but more about rest and peace.  Yes I believe even the Hitlers of this world deserve rest and peace. :)

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #77 on: September 23, 2013, 03:52:09 AM »
He opined that there was no content and I accepted it as stated.

I will not waste my time on such.

Sorry, have I got this right?  Your beliefs have no content, and no evidence.  You accept this, and don't wish to waste your time discussing them.

I can't see there is any problem with that.....provided that you cease talking about them.  If you have a theory that you cannot prove, cannot define, and do not intend to try to expand upon, I'd question the rationale behind introducing it on a forum primarily used for debate?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline epidemic

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #78 on: September 23, 2013, 07:04:28 AM »
Junebug,

You indicated that re-incarnation sounded like it was a good system for punishing evil doing.

Could you please tell me your take on the following:

Quote
But absent memory we are subject to pure random nature of our lot in life.


All I can say on the subject is that it seems a lot more appropriate than eternal hell fire. 

I hope your uncle did not really rape you.  If so I'm sorry to hear it.  More than likely also a victim. 

I don't think the afterlife is so much about punishment or rewards but more about rest and peace.  Yes I believe even the Hitlers of this world deserve rest and peace. :)

We I agree eternal hell fire is a punishment that exceeds any crime.  But reincarnation is  about as useless as tits on a bull. We have a person who is bad,  we erase his brain and then punish him for the next lifetime, we don't tell him why, nor allow him to learn from his mistakes.  This does not appear to be a great training aid.  It is like mini hells, that you randomly are subjected to by the whims of a god?  How bout this, you die, god says here is what you did wrong, and you are now going to live out your years in a famine plagued area as punishment.

No my uncle did not rape me,  I have lead a reasonably good life, solid middle class, caring extended family,  loving parents and sibling.

wouldn't ceasing to exist be the ultimate rest and peace?

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #79 on: September 23, 2013, 07:48:51 AM »
....reincarnation is  about as useless as tits on a bull. We have a person who is bad,  we erase his brain and then punish him for the next lifetime, we don't tell him why, nor allow him to learn from his mistakes. 

If you've never seen it, try to catch the episode of Black Mirror titled "White Bear".

Definitely try to see it before reading the article.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #80 on: September 23, 2013, 10:59:36 AM »
GIA, jdawg said "as far as he can tell, your belief has no content."  AS FAR AS HE CAN TELL, based on what you've presented so far.  That's why he's asking you to give more.

Sorry to butt in, feel free to ignore if I'm overstepping bounds and what what...
I tend to be overtly verbose and probably less than clear in my posts, so by all means butt in if-n-when the mood strikes you to help clarify crap I post :)
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #81 on: September 23, 2013, 11:06:09 AM »
Sorry, have I got this right?  Your beliefs have no content, and no evidence.  You accept this, and don't wish to waste your time discussing them.

I can't see there is any problem with that.....provided that you cease talking about them.  If you have a theory that you cannot prove, cannot define, and do not intend to try to expand upon, I'd question the rationale behind introducing it on a forum primarily used for debate?
See, that's the thing that's confusing me.  I cannot differentiate what he says from someone saying nothing at all.  I'm not convinced that's actually the case though - I suspect that his beliefs do entail some kind of content...the alternative, that what he actually believes amounts to the statement 'The cosmic consciousness exists' and absolutely nothing more just seems so preposterous to me.

But, Greatest I am, we don't have to go into any discussion about that if you don't want to (be it if it really doesn't have any content or if it's simply something that, for one reason or another, is utterly uncommunicable or cannot be articulated).

I would like some additional clarity on your claim that I was talking like a Christian.  Could you expand on that a bit?  As I alluded to before, I really didn't follow what you were saying there.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #82 on: September 23, 2013, 01:37:18 PM »
He opined that there was no content and I accepted it as stated.

I will not waste my time on such.

Sorry, have I got this right?  Your beliefs have no content, and no evidence.  You accept this, and don't wish to waste your time discussing them.

I can't see there is any problem with that.....provided that you cease talking about them.  If you have a theory that you cannot prove, cannot define, and do not intend to try to expand upon, I'd question the rationale behind introducing it on a forum primarily used for debate?

You have got it wrong.

I accepted it as an opinion. Opinions are not facts or knowledge.

I accepted that he say no content. Not that there was no content.

Regards
DL

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #83 on: September 23, 2013, 01:49:03 PM »
Sorry, have I got this right?  Your beliefs have no content, and no evidence.  You accept this, and don't wish to waste your time discussing them.

I can't see there is any problem with that.....provided that you cease talking about them.  If you have a theory that you cannot prove, cannot define, and do not intend to try to expand upon, I'd question the rationale behind introducing it on a forum primarily used for debate?
See, that's the thing that's confusing me.  I cannot differentiate what he says from someone saying nothing at all.  I'm not convinced that's actually the case though - I suspect that his beliefs do entail some kind of content...the alternative, that what he actually believes amounts to the statement 'The cosmic consciousness exists' and absolutely nothing more just seems so preposterous to me.

But, Greatest I am, we don't have to go into any discussion about that if you don't want to (be it if it really doesn't have any content or if it's simply something that, for one reason or another, is utterly uncommunicable or cannot be articulated).

I would like some additional clarity on your claim that I was talking like a Christian.  Could you expand on that a bit?  As I alluded to before, I really didn't follow what you were saying there.

Nope. Too far off topic. If it bothers you so much, I recant.

Move on. I have.

Regards
DL

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #84 on: September 23, 2013, 03:43:10 PM »
Sorry, have I got this right?  Your beliefs have no content, and no evidence.  You accept this, and don't wish to waste your time discussing them.

I can't see there is any problem with that.....provided that you cease talking about them.  If you have a theory that you cannot prove, cannot define, and do not intend to try to expand upon, I'd question the rationale behind introducing it on a forum primarily used for debate?

You have got it wrong.

I accepted it as an opinion. Opinions are not facts or knowledge.

I accepted that he say no content. Not that there was no content.

Regards
DL
So...that's a little frustrating I suppose.

"He has made a claim that is incorrect.  Rather than telling him that he is incorrect and explaining why, I'm just going to accept his claim so I don't have to be burdened with the accountability of my own words." <--- that's how you're coming off right now.

The actual content of your beliefs may or may not fall under the category of opinion, but your belief actually having content is an objective question of fact.  Apparently I got that fact wrong; correct me please.

Nope. Too far off topic. If it bothers you so much, I recant.
That's fair enough, but also frustrating.  Are you under the impression that I was insulted by what you said?  I wasn't; I was (and am still) just genuinely confused.  What bothers me is that your comment that 'I was talking like a Christian', so far as I can tell, makes no sense.  We can drop it, but don't recant the statement just to be nice.  Recant it if you disagree with the statement; recant it if you think it will only serve to derail other relevant conversation, but if you really do feel like I was talking like a Christian, I'd sincerely like to understand where that's coming from.  Because as it stands right now, I just plain don't understand it.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #85 on: September 24, 2013, 06:20:45 AM »
Sorry, have I got this right?  Your beliefs have no content, and no evidence.  You accept this, and don't wish to waste your time discussing them.

I can't see there is any problem with that.....provided that you cease talking about them.  If you have a theory that you cannot prove, cannot define, and do not intend to try to expand upon, I'd question the rationale behind introducing it on a forum primarily used for debate?

You have got it wrong.

I accepted it as an opinion. Opinions are not facts or knowledge.

I accepted that he say no content. Not that there was no content.

Regards
DL
So...that's a little frustrating I suppose.

"He has made a claim that is incorrect.  Rather than telling him that he is incorrect and explaining why, I'm just going to accept his claim so I don't have to be burdened with the accountability of my own words." <--- that's how you're coming off right now.

The actual content of your beliefs may or may not fall under the category of opinion, but your belief actually having content is an objective question of fact.  Apparently I got that fact wrong; correct me please.

Nope. Too far off topic. If it bothers you so much, I recant.
That's fair enough, but also frustrating.  Are you under the impression that I was insulted by what you said?  I wasn't; I was (and am still) just genuinely confused.  What bothers me is that your comment that 'I was talking like a Christian', so far as I can tell, makes no sense.  We can drop it, but don't recant the statement just to be nice.  Recant it if you disagree with the statement; recant it if you think it will only serve to derail other relevant conversation, but if you really do feel like I was talking like a Christian, I'd sincerely like to understand where that's coming from.  Because as it stands right now, I just plain don't understand it.

I am here to give facts. Not analyse them to death. I am a generalist and not a specialist.

I have even forgotten why I used the statement and am not the type to re-read what is past and like to deal with whatever post is at hand. I hide in logic and reason because I have a poor memory and usually speak to whatever word or issues are in front of me. I offered the recant only because I could not remember why I said what I did and it was a comment in passing, so to speak, and an aside to whatever we were speaking of.

I tend to move forwards and not back. Let's do so.

Regards
DL



 

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Does God get a fail in the love category?
« Reply #86 on: September 24, 2013, 06:45:24 AM »
I am here to give facts. Not analyse them to death. I am a generalist and not a specialist.

I have even forgotten why I used the statement and am not the type to re-read what is past and like to deal with whatever post is at hand. I hide in logic and reason because I have a poor memory and usually speak to whatever word or issues are in front of me. I offered the recant only because I could not remember why I said what I did and it was a comment in passing, so to speak, and an aside to whatever we were speaking of.

I tend to move forwards and not back. Let's do so.

Unfortunately, this reads a bit like "I speak off the cuff, don't strive for consistency, have no desire to present a coherent picture of my thoughts and beliefs".  Which you are more than welcome to do, but I suspect people will swiftly lose interest in engaging with you.

"Moving on" is, I would agree, in general a good thing to do.  Unfortunately, especially in politics, it is too often used as code for "I screwed up - lets not examine what I did too closely but try to forget it ever happened".

BTW, while you are here giving facts, what exactly ARE the facts behind the "cosmic consciousness"?  Indeed, what exactly do you mean by it?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?