Author Topic: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?  (Read 2328 times)

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Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #58 on: September 23, 2013, 10:49:01 AM »
Like my own story, I offered Persinger's as anecdotal.

I did get a long PDF from him showing all the parameters of his experiment. I admit to not having the time to read it yet. It may have the answers you seek. I was asked not to let it out but I am sure that if you contact him he will make it available to you.

I did not swallow his theory. If the cosmic consciousness I found is within the earths magnetic field, it seems to me that that would be a precarious and dangerous place to be as since I see it as a part of nature, then there is a chance of natural things like our solar winds being able to destroy it.   

Regards
DL
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 10:53:50 AM by Greatest I am »

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #59 on: September 23, 2013, 11:24:06 AM »
I am not a statistician but the odds would be staggering.
You may need to justify why you think the odds would be staggering.  Two people, presumably living in the same environment, who have close emotional ties together, exposed to at least some set of common stimuli (being in the same house and all, though admittedly in different rooms) over some indeterminate period of time, simultaneously experiencing a similar emotion regarding some aspect of the relationship that the both of you share?  I presume that, over the course of your relationship, and you have, in the past, had conversations like 'I wish you were more open with me', or 'Could you be more emotionally available?' or some such.

I dunno.  I'm not buying 'staggering odds' in this case.
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Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #60 on: September 23, 2013, 12:25:18 PM »
What we experienced and what motivated it had nothing directly to do with our relationship.

That was my little project and not hers.

Regards
DL


Offline epidemic

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #61 on: September 23, 2013, 12:30:53 PM »
GIA,

Claim knowledge of this cosmic consciousness,  Do you cite as proof your telepathic experience?  If so couldn't your telepathic powers be nothing more than a natural process.  Some sort of evolutionary electromagnetic communication not associated with the universe being conscious?

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #62 on: September 23, 2013, 12:51:40 PM »
GIA,

Claim knowledge of this cosmic consciousness,  Do you cite as proof your telepathic experience?  If so couldn't your telepathic powers be nothing more than a natural process.  Some sort of evolutionary electromagnetic communication not associated with the universe being conscious?

Yes. The only proof I have and what created the belief is that personal telepathic experience. Only that would have swayed my initial skepticism. Personal experience cannot be denied. Thy can be miss-understood but not denied.

I did not indicate that the universe was conscious. The cosmic consciousness is just a part of it. And a relatively small part at that otherwise communication would have such a huge time lag that it would be impossible to communicate well.

Some have described it as universal but I do not believe so for the reason stated. Logic goes against such a notion.

If what that Wormhole clip shows is reality then it is tied to this earth and may not be able to get away from it at all.

Regards
DL

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #63 on: September 23, 2013, 03:52:15 PM »
What we experienced and what motivated it had nothing directly to do with our relationship.

That was my little project and not hers.

Regards
DL
Wait...what motivated what exactly?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #64 on: September 24, 2013, 06:06:07 AM »
What we experienced and what motivated it had nothing directly to do with our relationship.

That was my little project and not hers.

Regards
DL
Wait...what motivated what exactly?

What motivated or drove my mind to seek out.

My wife was not even aware, from what I recall, of what I was doing.

Even if she did, I was the one who initiated the contact.

Regards
DL

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #65 on: September 24, 2013, 09:32:06 AM »
What motivated or drove my mind to seek out.
Seek out a telepathic experience or your wife?
Quote
My wife was not even aware, from what I recall, of what I was doing.

Even if she did, I was the one who initiated the contact.

Regards
DL
Did you actually initiate something or did something just happen?  And how do you know that it wasn't her emotional state being transferred to you?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #66 on: September 24, 2013, 10:04:24 AM »
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What motivated or drove my mind to seek out.
Seek out a telepathic experience or your wife?

Neither.

I did not have telepathy in mind. It just happened.

I was as surprised if not more-so than my wife was.


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Quote
My wife was not even aware, from what I recall, of what I was doing.

Even if she did, I was the one who initiated the contact.

Regards
DL
Did you actually initiate something or did something just happen?  And how do you know that it wasn't her emotional state being transferred to you?

I initiated it and the reason I know that it wasn't her emotional state being transferred to me is that she did not make me cry by transferring her emotions to me and when I turned the corner of our kitchen she asked me what I had done. She felt victimised and not as a perpetrator would feel.

I felt like the perpetrator and have a lot of experience knowing that I am the perpetrator in other more conventional issues.

Regards
DL

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #67 on: September 24, 2013, 03:26:56 PM »
I initiated it and the reason I know that it wasn't her emotional state being transferred to me is that she did not make me cry by transferring her emotions to me and when I turned the corner of our kitchen she asked me what I had done. She felt victimised and not as a perpetrator would feel.

I felt like the perpetrator and have a lot of experience knowing that I am the perpetrator in other more conventional issues.

Regards
DL
Just for clarity - do you mean to say that you willfully enacted this telepathic event, or should I read 'I initiated' as 'The event originated from my consciousness' or somesuch?

Do you think you'd be able to replicate this event?  If so, why not give it a try?  If not, why not?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #68 on: September 25, 2013, 08:27:27 AM »
I initiated it and the reason I know that it wasn't her emotional state being transferred to me is that she did not make me cry by transferring her emotions to me and when I turned the corner of our kitchen she asked me what I had done. She felt victimised and not as a perpetrator would feel.

I felt like the perpetrator and have a lot of experience knowing that I am the perpetrator in other more conventional issues.

Regards
DL
Just for clarity - do you mean to say that you willfully enacted this telepathic event, or should I read 'I initiated' as 'The event originated from my consciousness' or somesuch?

Do you think you'd be able to replicate this event?  If so, why not give it a try?  If not, why not?

That Sudbury experiment shows that one part of the brain that comes into play for telepathy is where our desire center is. For telepathy, I think that there needs to be a fairly strong desire pushing it for it to manifest. I willfully created telepathy but it was inadvertent. I did not know ahead of time that I would do what I did.

Under the right conditions I think anyone can do telepathy. It is just a matter of having a true desire I guess.

I have not been able to do it again because of the lack of desire as my desire was appeased already.

If you have seen some of the bio-feedback experiments at work, a proven theory, you will know that it ended up working better for those who were paid to do it. This shows that the brain needs motivation/desire to do things of this sort. Athletes train their minds to visualize winning as conditioning to also get the best performance out of themselves as possible.

The mind is the most complicated mechanism we know and we know very little of how it works at this point in time but I think things will move along fairly quickly and in 20 odd years we will know a lot more.

Regards
DL

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #69 on: September 26, 2013, 04:28:03 PM »
That Sudbury experiment shows that one part of the brain that comes into play for telepathy is where our desire center is. For telepathy, I think that there needs to be a fairly strong desire pushing it for it to manifest. I willfully created telepathy but it was inadvertent. I did not know ahead of time that I would do what I did.
Wait a minute...how exactly does one willfully do something inadvertently?
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Under the right conditions I think anyone can do telepathy. It is just a matter of having a true desire I guess.

I have not been able to do it again because of the lack of desire as my desire was appeased already.
You actively 'desired' to engage in an act of telepathy?  Or is this more of a 'subconsciously desired' kind of thing?
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If you have seen some of the bio-feedback experiments at work, a proven theory, you will know that it ended up working better for those who were paid to do it. This shows that the brain needs motivation/desire to do things of this sort. Athletes train their minds to visualize winning as conditioning to also get the best performance out of themselves as possible.
Eh I won't really argue here.  One's state of mind does have an appreciable effect on that person's ability to do something (as in your example of athletics, and I'd probably throw in the placebo effect as well).  I don't know if telepathy would fit into that...guess it would depend on the proposed mechanisms for telepathy to work.
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The mind is the most complicated mechanism we know and we know very little of how it works at this point in time but I think things will move along fairly quickly and in 20 odd years we will know a lot more.
Agreed.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #70 on: September 27, 2013, 09:43:01 AM »
"Wait a minute...how exactly does one willfully do something inadvertently?"

I don't know.

If the mind did not will it, it would not do it so it must have been willful. It was inadvertent because I did not know I would or could do it.

Have you seen the brain scan evidence that shows that we make decisions in the brain about two seconds before we know we have made it?

Strange stuff going on in our brains.


"You actively 'desired' to engage in an act of telepathy?  Or is this more of a 'subconsciously desired' kind of thing?"

I don't know if we have a true subconscious. I think it is just a sub-routine to our conscious mind. Hard to know at this point in time.

I actively desired to have more emotional content to finish the project I was working on. I did not actively seek telepathy because I did not know it to be real. That was the first time.

The second time, I did actively seek telepathy and I guess I desired it enough to trigger it.

Regards
DL 

 


Offline jdawg70

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #71 on: September 27, 2013, 10:06:32 AM »
"Wait a minute...how exactly does one willfully do something inadvertently?"

I don't know.

If the mind did not will it, it would not do it so it must have been willful. It was inadvertent because I did not know I would or could do it.
Sorry - when I said willfully I did not mean 'something that came from a mind'.  I meant willfully as in "with full awareness of what one is doing"[1].  As in intention.  That's where the contradiction came in for me - to willfully, as in intentionally, do something inadvertently, as in unintentionally, was confusing.  But I'll chalk that up to semantic confusion.
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Have you seen the brain scan evidence that shows that we make decisions in the brain about two seconds before we know we have made it?

Strange stuff going on in our brains.
I haven't yet, and I still owe you responses regarding that video.  Apologies.
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I don't know if we have a true subconscious. I think it is just a sub-routine to our conscious mind. Hard to know at this point in time.

I actively desired to have more emotional content to finish the project I was working on. I did not actively seek telepathy because I did not know it to be real. That was the first time.

The second time, I did actively seek telepathy and I guess I desired it enough to trigger it.
What I truly do not understand is why you don't try a third time (and 4th, 5th, etc.).  You are talking about an objective phenomenon that other people are calling 'bulls**t'[2], would confer extreme advantages to you in your own personal life, could revolutionize the entire way the human race interacts with each other, and provide even more information for us to continue figuring out how the mind works.

I'm wondering why you don't have an intense, burning desire to see if you can make it happen again or to at least attempt to systematically determine the truth value of this claim of telepathy.  It's strange.

But furthermore..."I guess I desired it enough"...there shouldn't be any guesswork at play here.  You're talking about your desires - shouldn't that be something that is actively at the forefront of your mind?  Shouldn't you have a rough idea of how much 'desire' was required to make it happen?
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Regards
DL 
Total aside, but you really don't need to sign every post you make.  This isn't e-mail, it's a discussion board.  If you feel the need to continue doing it go nuts but it's wasteful and pointless.
 1. http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/willfully
 2. Note: I am one of those people calling 'bulls**t'
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #72 on: September 27, 2013, 10:53:31 AM »
Signing off is a habit.

At the time of my experience I did try often and hard to initiate telepathy again but failed.

Perhaps my desire is not strong enough because I do not think it is particularly useful and it is an invasion of privacy and an assault, if the word my wife used is accurate and I think that to her it is.
I would call my second success the same except for the fact that I sought it out. That just makes me just a bit S & M perhaps but I did not know how much it hurt mentally at the time.

Take away the specificity of what I was desiring and the hodgepodge of information that I gleaned I do not see as useful in our day to day lives.

Would you let someone access all of your memories?

Some of mine I would be quite embarrassed to have out in the open.

I assume we all have those little secrets we wish to remain private or best forgotten.

That is also why I think we might have an actual mental block. I was in my wife's mind for only a second and think that I would have stayed longer but either my surprise ended the experience quickly or her shield threw me out. I do not know which is the reality.

Regards
DL

 

Offline median

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #73 on: October 14, 2013, 04:03:51 PM »
Let's get back to topic here please.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Mrjason

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #74 on: October 15, 2013, 05:49:38 AM »
Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?

On its own? Absolutley not. Intuition is irrational by definition, and can not be trusted without further investigation.

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #75 on: October 15, 2013, 06:51:48 AM »
Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?

On its own? Absolutley not. Intuition is irrational by definition, and can not be trusted without further investigation.

And to just believe with faith is as foolish as religious believers and their imaginary Gods that they have to listen to and adore.

Faith without facts is for fools.

Having said that. I see nothing wrong with a low key hope that all these things we imagine could be real as we try to prove them, --- telepathy and other six sense for instance, --- but to believe on have faith just on hearsay or book say, ---- without anything personal and real to hang belief on, it should not be left to develop to belief or faith.

Once people start believing garbage and the un-proven, soon they will only have garbage in their minds.

Regards
DL