Author Topic: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?  (Read 2849 times)

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Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2013, 08:53:11 PM »
I do not go to them anymore much and could only remember the exact location of this one.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/Thread-Atheist-Church-of-the-evolving-Human-God

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DL

Offline stuffin

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2013, 10:09:50 PM »
http://www.churchoffreethought.org]

As a suspicious entity, I see that web site as an attempt by some to label atheism a religion. It feels so real it screams bogus. It sets itself up too perfectly. Maybe they are real; maybe you had a real telepathic experience? 

I also notice you speak in tongues using remarkable vernacular. Kinda reminds me of an old western where a preacher comes to town and amazes the ordinary citizens with words (scripture) from the bible.

Please excuse my skepticism.


When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2013, 01:17:19 AM »
I, for instance, believe in telepathy because I did it twice.

Really?  You obtained information via telepathy that you could not have already known and which there was no possibility of you guessing?  Fascinating.

Just curious.....how many times have you tried to use telepathy, or thought you were using telepathy, and got it wrong?

None. The effects are too startling to miss.

<<Pauses expectantly.  Looks around.  Checks watch.  Coughs, leans forward.>>

So.....were you planning on giving any detail about this alleged telepathy, and the two incidents in your life that it happened?  What happened?  How did you "activate" the ability?  For what reason/s is it not replicable?

Thus far all you've said "I did telepathy, and it was amazing!".  Sorry, but without some detail to examine, you may as well have said that you teleported to Mars.

EDIT - Never Mind - let's discuss it here instead to avoid derailing this thread.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 01:26:14 AM by Anfauglir »
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2013, 09:19:34 AM »
http://www.churchoffreethought.org]

As a suspicious entity, I see that web site as an attempt by some to label atheism a religion. It feels so real it screams bogus. It sets itself up too perfectly. Maybe they are real; maybe you had a real telepathic experience? 

I also notice you speak in tongues using remarkable vernacular. Kinda reminds me of an old western where a preacher comes to town and amazes the ordinary citizens with words (scripture) from the bible.

Please excuse my skepticism.

Easily as I have a lot of skepticism myself.

As to how I express myself.
I am French. We just sound strange when we use the English language.

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DL

Offline viocjit

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2013, 03:05:58 PM »
@Greatest I am Je pense que tes expériences spirituelles sont uniquement des illusions. J'en suis convaincus parce'que je suis un ex-Chrétien , ex-théoricien du complot , ex-croyant aux pouvoirs psychiques etc... (Translation for non-French speakers : I think that yours spiritual experiences are only illusions. I'm sure of it because I'm an ex-Christian , ex-Conspiracy theorist , ex-believer in psychic powers etc...).

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #34 on: September 09, 2013, 08:10:27 AM »
@Greatest I am Je pense que tes expériences spirituelles sont uniquement des illusions. J'en suis convaincus parce'que je suis un ex-Chrétien , ex-théoricien du complot , ex-croyant aux pouvoirs psychiques etc... (Translation for non-French speakers : I think that yours spiritual experiences are only illusions. I'm sure of it because I'm an ex-Christian , ex-Conspiracy theorist , ex-believer in psychic powers etc...).

I do not blame you for thinking as I would if in your shoes.

The thing is that both my wife and I would have had to share a delusion somehow while not even being in the same room.

If I could explain that then I might be able to ignore what I perceived and call it a brain fart or something but I will not call my wife a liar nor can I ignore what we experienced.

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DL

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #35 on: September 09, 2013, 08:34:36 AM »
The thing is that both my wife and I would have had to share a delusion somehow while not even being in the same room.

If I could explain that then ......

To explain it you'd first have to give some details.  You seem curiously loathe to do so. 
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #36 on: September 09, 2013, 09:07:42 AM »
Apparently Greatest is here just to tell us how impressed he is with his own abilities. He feels no need to elucidate. And we only need to know that he had a fantastic experience. Oh yea, and we need to be impressed.

Once he gets us to see that, his work here will be done.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #37 on: September 09, 2013, 09:20:11 AM »
The thing is that both my wife and I would have had to share a delusion somehow while not even being in the same room.

If I could explain that then ......

To explain it you'd first have to give some details.  You seem curiously loathe to do so.

I'm not sure he should bother, because then we would have to engage in the normal science dissection of whether it could have happened by chance, without knowing whether GIA is just making it up. (Another gas leak Batman moment.)

You might as well debunk her, instead

Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2013, 09:54:28 AM »
The thing is that both my wife and I would have had to share a delusion somehow while not even being in the same room.

If I could explain that then ......

To explain it you'd first have to give some details.  You seem curiously loathe to do so.

The details are short and simple.

I was in our basement den working on a proposal to a charity. My feminine side, as some call it, is rather deep in my character and does not always come out easily to the surface. I was thinking of this and chastising myself and sort of wishing that I had the more emotional side of my wife so that I could put more emotion in the work I was doing and I was suddenly looking at or feeling that emotion in her. I also effected her at the same time and knew it and ran upstairs to find her crying at the sink. She had just been doing the dishes and when I swung around the corner she just asked me what I had done. My response was that I did not know.

That is how I confirmed to myself and to her that telepathy was real.

Regards
DL

 
 

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2013, 09:57:33 AM »
Apparently Greatest is here just to tell us how impressed he is with his own abilities. He feels no need to elucidate. And we only need to know that he had a fantastic experience. Oh yea, and we need to be impressed.

Once he gets us to see that, his work here will be done.

Pfft.

The opposite is true. Any that say that they believe me are fools.
Seems I said about the same thing above but your kind of character probably did not note it or care to acknowledge it.

Regards
DL

Offline median

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2013, 10:23:37 AM »

The details are short and simple.

I was in our basement den working on a proposal to a charity. My feminine side, as some call it, is rather deep in my character and does not always come out easily to the surface. I was thinking of this and chastising myself and sort of wishing that I had the more emotional side of my wife so that I could put more emotion in the work I was doing and I was suddenly looking at or feeling that emotion in her. I also effected her at the same time and knew it and ran upstairs to find her crying at the sink. She had just been doing the dishes and when I swung around the corner she just asked me what I had done. My response was that I did not know.

That is how I confirmed to myself and to her that telepathy was real.

Regards
DL

How do you know you were "feeling that emotion in her" or that you "effected her at the same time"? This seems like an assumption on a mere coincidence, or perhaps something much simpler tipped you off. Did you explore all other explanations of this occurrence? Why did you decide to go with the one particular interpretation that is the most unlikely and the most gratuitously mysterious? Also, this doesn't sound like telepathy. Is it possible that you just wanted to believe in telepathy and therefore drew the wrong conclusion based on confirmation bias? This happens quite frequently in people all around the world.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

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Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2013, 10:55:27 AM »

The details are short and simple.

I was in our basement den working on a proposal to a charity. My feminine side, as some call it, is rather deep in my character and does not always come out easily to the surface. I was thinking of this and chastising myself and sort of wishing that I had the more emotional side of my wife so that I could put more emotion in the work I was doing and I was suddenly looking at or feeling that emotion in her. I also effected her at the same time and knew it and ran upstairs to find her crying at the sink. She had just been doing the dishes and when I swung around the corner she just asked me what I had done. My response was that I did not know.

That is how I confirmed to myself and to her that telepathy was real.

Regards
DL

How do you know you were "feeling that emotion in her" or that you "effected her at the same time"? This seems like an assumption on a mere coincidence, or perhaps something much simpler tipped you off. Did you explore all other explanations of this occurrence? Why did you decide to go with the one particular interpretation that is the most unlikely and the most gratuitously mysterious? Also, this doesn't sound like telepathy. Is it possible that you just wanted to believe in telepathy and therefore drew the wrong conclusion based on confirmation bias? This happens quite frequently in people all around the world.

I have thought of other possibilities but had to come down on telepathy as two minds were in play.

On an individual basis we may very well be able to let our minds fool us. In this case, two people in different rooms would have to both be screwing up or manipulating their thinking in unison somehow.

I think that to be impossible.

You will know that in witness tests, two people will remember things differently. We are not very reliable. But you will also note that all are right in them thinking they witnessed something even if they get the details wrong.

Regards
DL

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2013, 10:56:27 AM »
This one's quite good, too.
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=202605

After pistol_pete discribes his telepathic experience, he reports, on his second post, that:

"on high doses when you completely M-hole you conciseness completely leaves your body."


Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2013, 01:27:55 PM »
This one's quite good, too.
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=202605

After pistol_pete discribes his telepathic experience, he reports, on his second post, that:

"on high doses when you completely M-hole you conciseness completely leaves your body."

One has to wonder how a consciousness knows where to come back to if it actually leaves the body.

Drugs have been reported for some time as opening the mind to various effects but God must be really soft spoken if one can only hear him while frying brain cells.

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DL

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #45 on: September 10, 2013, 08:37:50 AM »
On an individual basis we may very well be able to let our minds fool us. In this case, two people in different rooms would have to both be screwing up or manipulating their thinking in unison somehow.

I think that to be impossible.

So coincidence could definitely NOT have been in play?

I think a similar conversation is happening in three threads now.....!  If only we WERE telepathic, we'd save so much typing....  ;)
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #46 on: September 10, 2013, 09:26:57 AM »
On an individual basis we may very well be able to let our minds fool us. In this case, two people in different rooms would have to both be screwing up or manipulating their thinking in unison somehow.

I think that to be impossible.

So coincidence could definitely NOT have been in play?


I am not a statistician but the odds would be staggering.

There is a term that I have forgotten for a shared delusion but I have forgotten the logic they gave for it and I thought it was B S.

It seemed to apply more to two people seeing a UFO, for instance, and thinking they say more than just lights.

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DL

Offline median

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #47 on: September 10, 2013, 03:14:48 PM »

I have thought of other possibilities but had to come down on telepathy as two minds were in play.

On an individual basis we may very well be able to let our minds fool us. In this case, two people in different rooms would have to both be screwing up or manipulating their thinking in unison somehow.

I think that to be impossible.

You will know that in witness tests, two people will remember things differently. We are not very reliable. But you will also note that all are right in them thinking they witnessed something even if they get the details wrong.

Regards
DL

This is not entirely accurate at all. There are plenty of cases where people remember identical things (or experience strange events) that are later found not to be supernatural or mysterious in origin (just rare/strange). In fact, this is almost always the case (when people don't know, they assume the supernatural/mystical). I'm wondering how it is that you think this experience is "impossible" to interpret in any other way b/c I hear this a lot from Christians and it isn't convincing. What line of reasoning or evidence has justified this belief regarding what is impossible to explain any other way?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #48 on: September 10, 2013, 03:47:26 PM »

I have thought of other possibilities but had to come down on telepathy as two minds were in play.

On an individual basis we may very well be able to let our minds fool us. In this case, two people in different rooms would have to both be screwing up or manipulating their thinking in unison somehow.

I think that to be impossible.

You will know that in witness tests, two people will remember things differently. We are not very reliable. But you will also note that all are right in them thinking they witnessed something even if they get the details wrong.

Regards
DL

This is not entirely accurate at all. There are plenty of cases where people remember identical things (or experience strange events) that are later found not to be supernatural or mysterious in origin (just rare/strange). In fact, this is almost always the case (when people don't know, they assume the supernatural/mystical). I'm wondering how it is that you think this experience is "impossible" to interpret in any other way b/c I hear this a lot from Christians and it isn't convincing. What line of reasoning or evidence has justified this belief regarding what is impossible to explain any other way?

The experience is of two minds sharing emotion and thought. Other than telepathy, I do not know how else I would term it.

I am open to your interpreting or labelling it some other way.
OBE to inside someone else perhaps but that is possession and I do not want to go there.

I do not consider telepathy to be supernatural. I do not do supernatural and do not need that to explain this.

Regards
DL

 

Offline epidemic

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #49 on: September 11, 2013, 08:36:41 AM »
The experience is of two minds sharing emotion and thought. Other than telepathy, I do not know how else I would term it.

I am open to your interpreting or labelling it some other way.
OBE to inside someone else perhaps but that is possession and I do not want to go there.

I do not consider telepathy to be supernatural. I do not do supernatural and do not need that to explain this.

Regards
DL

did you ever explain what your telepathic experience was?  To put weight on your story I would need to hear the evidence/claims to decide if it was coincidence or completely something so detailed that it defies logical alternatives.

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #50 on: September 11, 2013, 10:31:10 AM »
The experience is of two minds sharing emotion and thought. Other than telepathy, I do not know how else I would term it.

I am open to your interpreting or labelling it some other way.
OBE to inside someone else perhaps but that is possession and I do not want to go there.

I do not consider telepathy to be supernatural. I do not do supernatural and do not need that to explain this.

Regards
DL

did you ever explain what your telepathic experience was?  To put weight on your story I would need to hear the evidence/claims to decide if it was coincidence or completely something so detailed that it defies logical alternatives.

Please read this O P as I discuss this in detail and please ask whatever question I have not answered to your satisfaction.

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,25413.0.html

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DL

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #51 on: September 20, 2013, 10:26:56 PM »
Here is what appears to be replicable telepathy and other pertinent information.

Check at the 19 min mark for telepathy.



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DL

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #52 on: September 21, 2013, 02:13:38 PM »
The details are short and simple.

I was in our basement den working on a proposal to a charity. My feminine side, as some call it, is rather deep in my character and does not always come out easily to the surface. I was thinking of this and chastising myself and sort of wishing that I had the more emotional side of my wife so that I could put more emotion in the work I was doing and I was suddenly looking at or feeling that emotion in her. I also effected her at the same time and knew it and ran upstairs to find her crying at the sink. She had just been doing the dishes and when I swung around the corner she just asked me what I had done. My response was that I did not know.

That is how I confirmed to myself and to her that telepathy was real.

I am not going to convince you here, but all supernatural events are called supernatural because the observed has observed correctly but drawn the wrong inference.

If I may edit your experience to the essential:

I was wishing that I had the more emotional side of my wife and I was suddenly looking at or feeling that emotion in her. I also [felt that I had] affected her at the same time and [this feeling seemed very strong and ran upstairs to find her crying at the sink. She just asked me what I had done. My response was that I did not know.


Now, at this stage, and considering only the concept of telepathy, it appears to me that your wife was at least as telepathic as you. We see a radio station (you) and your wife (the receiver.) She also may have a claim to have sent you the thoughts. Does she think she is telepathic?

In the real world, we know that your wife had been crying whilst you were in the basement, but we do not know when that started. Is it at all possible that you subconsciously heard your wife’s crying, this started you thinking about your feminine side and the emotion that went with it (Crying is indicative of emotion.) You think of the love you have for your wife and find yourself going up to see if your worries are justified, and find that they are.

Then there is the fact that there is very little that does not pass between a couple. Their concerns for each other have a limited range. Is it really supernatural that 2 people should have similar thoughts one evening? Had you discussed your emotional state with your wife previously, maybe weeks or months ago?

It is not surprising that you wrote “My response was that I did not know.” It must have been genuinely strange. But now you say you do know. You say that you had been telepathic but you do not grant this to your wife. Why?

I remember being at a wedding and seeing one of the guests looking at his camera. I did not have a camera with me but I went over to him and said, “Here. Let me have them back at the end.” And I placed in his hand 4 small batteries. He looked at me in amazement. My reply was, “I knew before I left home you would do this.” His jaw dropped in a satisfying manner and I then said, “My job involves photography, I always carry a spare set but I’ve forgotten my camera.” And he was no longer amazed. Could I have told him that I was telepathic? If I had played along, could I have left him with a supernatural experience?

I can think of other normal explanations also.

Somewhat in the back posts, I describe a strange experience at the hands of a Tarot card reader. I think there was a real explanation as did others. None of them quite explained everything but that does not mean there is telepathy or visions of a real future. I can propose a few solutions that get me halfway there and a few that move from the mid-point to the end but connecting them is eluding me. However, I have no doubt that there is a real explanation.

After all, when I see Penn and Teller, I don’t believe there is real magic, do you?

The thing is, it is wrong to invent explanations. It is wrong to assume a strange explanation is valid if there nothing natural that could have caused it. The best you can do is experiments to see if you can replicate events. You can have yourself double blind tested.

I would be willing, for example, to PM a Mod with a list of words or letters or numbers or a combination of shapes, etc., (whatever you think is best) and, at an agreed time I will read these and you will write them down. Would that work for you?


Bonus info:

James Hydrick then went on to be arrested for raping five boys...









« Last Edit: September 21, 2013, 02:33:32 PM by Graybeard »
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline median

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #53 on: September 21, 2013, 03:09:01 PM »
James Hyrick the con-artist. He could have started his own religion and lots of people would have followed!

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-02-06/local/me-1356_1_sir-james
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #54 on: September 22, 2013, 09:13:03 AM »
The details are short and simple.

I was in our basement den working on a proposal to a charity. My feminine side, as some call it, is rather deep in my character and does not always come out easily to the surface. I was thinking of this and chastising myself and sort of wishing that I had the more emotional side of my wife so that I could put more emotion in the work I was doing and I was suddenly looking at or feeling that emotion in her. I also effected her at the same time and knew it and ran upstairs to find her crying at the sink. She had just been doing the dishes and when I swung around the corner she just asked me what I had done. My response was that I did not know.

That is how I confirmed to myself and to her that telepathy was real.

I am not going to convince you here, but all supernatural events are called supernatural because the observed has observed correctly but drawn the wrong inference.

If I may edit your experience to the essential:

I was wishing that I had the more emotional side of my wife and I was suddenly looking at or feeling that emotion in her. I also [felt that I had] affected her at the same time and [this feeling seemed very strong and ran upstairs to find her crying at the sink. She just asked me what I had done. My response was that I did not know.


Now, at this stage, and considering only the concept of telepathy, it appears to me that your wife was at least as telepathic as you. We see a radio station (you) and your wife (the receiver.) She also may have a claim to have sent you the thoughts. Does she think she is telepathic?

In the real world, we know that your wife had been crying whilst you were in the basement, but we do not know when that started. Is it at all possible that you subconsciously heard your wife’s crying, this started you thinking about your feminine side and the emotion that went with it (Crying is indicative of emotion.) You think of the love you have for your wife and find yourself going up to see if your worries are justified, and find that they are.

Then there is the fact that there is very little that does not pass between a couple. Their concerns for each other have a limited range. Is it really supernatural that 2 people should have similar thoughts one evening? Had you discussed your emotional state with your wife previously, maybe weeks or months ago?

It is not surprising that you wrote “My response was that I did not know.” It must have been genuinely strange. But now you say you do know. You say that you had been telepathic but you do not grant this to your wife. Why?

I remember being at a wedding and seeing one of the guests looking at his camera. I did not have a camera with me but I went over to him and said, “Here. Let me have them back at the end.” And I placed in his hand 4 small batteries. He looked at me in amazement. My reply was, “I knew before I left home you would do this.” His jaw dropped in a satisfying manner and I then said, “My job involves photography, I always carry a spare set but I’ve forgotten my camera.” And he was no longer amazed. Could I have told him that I was telepathic? If I had played along, could I have left him with a supernatural experience?

I can think of other normal explanations also.

Somewhat in the back posts, I describe a strange experience at the hands of a Tarot card reader. I think there was a real explanation as did others. None of them quite explained everything but that does not mean there is telepathy or visions of a real future. I can propose a few solutions that get me halfway there and a few that move from the mid-point to the end but connecting them is eluding me. However, I have no doubt that there is a real explanation.

After all, when I see Penn and Teller, I don’t believe there is real magic, do you?

The thing is, it is wrong to invent explanations. It is wrong to assume a strange explanation is valid if there nothing natural that could have caused it. The best you can do is experiments to see if you can replicate events. You can have yourself double blind tested.

I would be willing, for example, to PM a Mod with a list of words or letters or numbers or a combination of shapes, etc., (whatever you think is best) and, at an agreed time I will read these and you will write them down. Would that work for you?


Bonus info:

James Hydrick then went on to be arrested for raping five boys...


I agree that it is wrong to invent explanations.

"You say that you had been telepathic but you do not grant this to your wife. Why?".

Yes I do. I grant the ability to everyone. I have never claimed to be or do anything that is not natural.

Take a look at this at about the 20 min. mark.

With traditional thinking, I think this scientist should get Randy's million. He has proven telepathy.



As to the test you propose. I am not interested. I have not done any telepathy for many years now and do not have the desire that I think helps create it and from my correspondence with the Sudbury lab has confirmed that during their tests, there is more activity in the brain where our desires express themselves. I would likely fail any test you would devise. Hypnosis could be useful if  am a decent candidate but I do not have access to such.

Regards
DL
« Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 09:19:22 AM by Greatest I am »

Offline Greatest I am

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #55 on: September 22, 2013, 09:27:33 AM »
James Hyrick the con-artist. He could have started his own religion and lots of people would have followed!

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-02-06/local/me-1356_1_sir-james

How successful can we think he would have been when he is begging for food and smokes.

He is just 1 in thousands if a con.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

Stop it. It is a worthless attempt to dissuade me because I have confirmation of a true telepathic experience. I just do not have the proof.

Regards
DL


Offline Graybeard

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #56 on: September 22, 2013, 09:58:58 AM »
I looked at the video a little before 20:00 at 17:49 and saw Rupert Sheldrake. Associating him with anything scientific is suspect. Please do not be taken in by such charlatans. Rupert SheldrakeWiki has already been banned from TED. He is a plausible fraud who has just plucked a phrase out of the air and said that this is the solution to everything. His experiment that you see around 20 is not rigorous at all - it is not even an experiment because it is so bad.

You will note that the woman has a cell phone held at an angle. An angle that would reflect Sheldrake who is standing behind her... You didn't think she was really blindfolded, did you?

(From Wiki) "Sheldrake's morphic resonance hypothesis is widely rejected within the scientific community[6][7][8][9][10] and has been labelled pseudoscience[9][11][12][13][14] and magical thinking.[11][15] Concerns include the lack of evidence for the hypothesis[16][17][18][19] and its inconsistency with established scientific theories.[9][20]"

Michael PersingerWiki (born June 26, 1945) is a cognitive neuroscience researcher and university professor with over 200 peer-reviewed publications. He has worked at Laurentian University, located in Sudbury, Ontario, since 1971. He is primarily notable for his experimental work in the field of neurotheology, work which has been increasingly criticized in recent years.

In Persinger's experiment, you will see that the two subjects are separated and this would seem to be OK. What the experiment lacks is a third subject who has a dummy piece of apparatus on their head and assurance that the experiment is double blind. But that is not the main fault. The main fault, to me is that although both subjects sit in the dark, they, nevertheless will have brainwaves, yet all the time these are going on, there seems to be no correlation.

The equipment is of Persinger's own design. It will be able to pick up changes in a magnetic or electric field, judging by the large, crude coils. Is it sensitive enough to react to the current in the light? Where are the contacts on the girl's head situated? Near the visual cortex?

Has this experiment been repeated by others or does Persinger keep his special equipment to himself?

History is littered with people who have convinced themselves of things and do not always take the greatest care against error or accuracy. I can give you references that will show that the earth is 6,000 years old by reference to a particular sample of Zircon. The sample seems genuine but is not in accordnace with any other sample. So this is not really proof of anything.

With anything that claims to be a ground-breaking paradigm, we need to tread very carefully before we take it seriously. At the moment, we should be saying, "Let's see it tested properly and by others."

I would advise against accepting Persinger at face value at this stage.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2013, 10:02:14 AM by Graybeard »
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline median

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Re: Should we trust intuition for belief in the supernatural?
« Reply #57 on: September 23, 2013, 10:41:55 AM »
James Hyrick the con-artist. He could have started his own religion and lots of people would have followed!

http://articles.latimes.com/1989-02-06/local/me-1356_1_sir-james

How successful can we think he would have been when he is begging for food and smokes.

He is just 1 in thousands if a con.

You are comparing apples and oranges.

Stop it. It is a worthless attempt to dissuade me because I have confirmation of a true telepathic experience. I just do not have the proof.

Regards
DL

You sound like the Christians we debate with on here who claim to know Jesus but "can't prove it". Besides this, I don't think we're asking for absolute "proof". We're asking for strong sound evidence, and it is that which you have not given, and seemingly do not have. Rationalizations as to why you can't demonstrate your alleged phenomena aren't good enough, especially since it is so often the case that humans misinterpret their experiences and label them incorrectly. Self diagnoses isn't sufficient. You need to demonstrate your claims. Otherwise, you've managed to convince no one except yourself but convincing one's self of something is much easier (and much more susceptible to error) than actually doing the work that it takes to demonstrate that your interpretation of a given phenomena is the correct one.

Why not try heading over to the James Randi Educational Foundation and claim your $1Million? Come back with the confirmation and then we'll reconsider your claim.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 10:55:03 AM by median »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan