Author Topic: Need help with a historical debate - Crusades/Inquisition  (Read 169 times)

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Offline MisterPine

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Need help with a historical debate - Crusades/Inquisition
« on: June 01, 2015, 09:22:46 AM »
Google would normally be a big help in situations like this but lots of the hits I'm getting are coming from people with strong biases so it's hard to know.

The question is simply, who were the "Christians" during the Crusades and the Inquisition?  It seems to me the Christians were a single body at that time, but fundamentalists in their desire to separate themselves from all things Catholic insist there were evangelicals being tortured by the nasty evil Catholics during this period as well and so they were not responsible for any of the carnage.
"It ain't supposed to make sense -  it's faith.  Faith is something that you believe that nobody in his right mind would believe."  - Archie Bunker

Offline Mrjason

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Re: Need help with a historical debate - Crusades/Inquisition
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2015, 09:46:01 AM »
There were loads of crusades, some against heretic christians. I think crusade is a catholic concept, protestants simply call it religious war.
The first crusades against the saracens were at a time before any reformations so, yeah, i think at that time catholics represented all christians as there were not any other denominations..

The inquisition was primariliy concerned with heresy so I guess if they want to play the no true christian card they could well do so.

Offline MisterPine

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Re: Need help with a historical debate - Crusades/Inquisition
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2015, 09:47:21 AM »
"No True Christian" - I'm going to use that.  They drive me crazy with their arrogance, some of these evangelicals.
"It ain't supposed to make sense -  it's faith.  Faith is something that you believe that nobody in his right mind would believe."  - Archie Bunker

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Need help with a historical debate - Crusades/Inquisition
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2015, 09:49:16 AM »
Note: This response assumes the crusades to mean the free trips to Jerusalem, mostly. I didn't know that some consider the inquisition a crusade also.

I'm not an expert but I don't think there was anything of any size besides catholics until that snippety Martin Luther came along. So yea, it was the catholics.

Not that the fundy's wouldn't have joined up had they been there. They just didn't exist yet. Sometimes it takes a couple of millennia to find ways to mess up holy texts even more.

By the way, small historical footnote that I remember reading somewhere (and I hope that someone in the know can confirm or deny), to practice killing people by the thousands, one of the crusades started out by killing lots of jewish farmers in Europe, driving the survivors from the land and in to the cities, where they diligently learned to survive in business and the arts instead of plowing. Which is one of the reasons we have ended up with lots of jewish merchants and such.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Need help with a historical debate - Crusades/Inquisition
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2015, 06:43:05 PM »
All that took place before the reformation.  There was the Eastern branch that had broken away but the rest was under Rome's thumb.

But then...Christians (Protestants)think they wrote the bible as well.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2015, 06:45:56 PM by Nick »
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Online nogodsforme

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Re: Need help with a historical debate - Crusades/Inquisition
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2015, 09:33:02 PM »
Catholics also like to disavow the Crusades as a blip (that lasted several hundred years) and downplay the Inquisition (that resulted in the torture and death of thousands, plus the enslavement and expulsion of entire communities and the terrorizing of many more). Good examples of Christian love all round. 

Hey, if we atheists are gonna get stuck with Pol Pot and Stalin, they gotta take Pope Urban and Torquemada. And the destruction of the native cultures all around the world. They can have Hitler and we will take Mao. But they gots to own the Salem witch trials.  It's only fair.
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Offline MisterPine

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Re: Need help with a historical debate - Crusades/Inquisition
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2015, 08:38:37 AM »
Catholics also like to disavow the Crusades as a blip (that lasted several hundred years) and downplay the Inquisition (that resulted in the torture and death of thousands, plus the enslavement and expulsion of entire communities and the terrorizing of many more). Good examples of Christian love all round. 

Hey, if we atheists are gonna get stuck with Pol Pot and Stalin, they gotta take Pope Urban and Torquemada. And the destruction of the native cultures all around the world. They can have Hitler and we will take Mao. But they gots to own the Salem witch trials.  It's only fair.

No argument.  I just always find it funny how the fundies will bend over backwards to say Catholics aren't Christians, but watch how they magically turn into Catholics when they want to pin something ugly on them like the Inquisition or the Crusades.
"It ain't supposed to make sense -  it's faith.  Faith is something that you believe that nobody in his right mind would believe."  - Archie Bunker