Introduction

[b.a.worldchanger]

Hi, I am a theist.  Not sure if I'm just passing through, or will stay for awhile to engage in some conversations.  But, it's definitely an interesting site with quite of few topics open for discussion.

[Anfauglir]

Welcome aboard B.A. - hope you'll stick around!

[Emily]

Hiya.

Can you explain a lit bit more what you believe?

[b.a.worldchanger]

@Emily,

I suppose it would be more helpful to describe myself as a "Christian".  Personally, I don't really like that particular label, I think it has been diluted to mean just about anything and everything, provided you acknowledge a belief in Jesus (which I indeed do).  So, I prefer the label of "Christ Follower" or "Disciple" as that is what I strive to be, not just merely a Christian.

[Nick]

Welcome, I'm kind of disappointed.  I was hoping you were a follower of Thor.  We have not had one of those in a while.

[b.a.worldchanger]

Welcome, I'm kind of disappointed.  I was hoping you were a follower of Thor.  We have not had one of those in a while.

Nick, sorry to disappoint 

[screwtape]

So, I prefer the label of "Christ Follower" or "Disciple" as that is what I strive to be, not just merely a Christian.

That sounds a little pretentious and kind of... I dunno, demeaning(?) to people who call themselves xian. 

How can you be a disciple of a guy who's been dead for about 2000 years?

"To me the thought of voluntarily embracing a system explicitly tied to the beliefs of one human being, who's dead, falls somewhere between the silly and the suicidal."
~ Eliezer Yudkowski
http://lesswrong.com/lw/m1/guardians_of_ayn_rand/

[This Is Me]

Hey!! Hope you enjoy yourself here! I am a former Christian myself. The discussions here are great. Im also new to this site...but love it =)

[neopagan]

Welcome aboard baw. I hope you enjoy your time here and stick around awhile.

I was a christ follower, disciple, christian, believer, whatever for over 30 years, so it is important to kind of let us know some details of your version of that... hardly any two are alike. But never fear, hardly any two "atheists" here can define our atheism exactly the same way either - so we will all learn together, eh?

Oh, this post put me over the dreaded 666, so I am apparently not he antichrist.

[b.a.worldchanger]

That sounds a little pretentious and kind of... I dunno, demeaning(?) to people who call themselves xian. 

Screwtape, I realize it may sound that way as I re-read the post, but that really isn't the heart behind it.  It's more about the pre-conceptions that I think exist around the label "Christian" (which make no mistake, I claim to be one).  But even reading this site, there is so much discussion about how Christians don't do "X" or don't do "Y".  I think there are many Christians, by their own admission, who are simply cultural Christians, and many who never have even read the Bible, let alone know what it says about Jesus.  It is akin to being a "Jew" by birth vs. actually practicing Judaism.  Again, it's not meant to demean others, it's simply meant to clarify my desire to go beyond a knowledge of or acknowledgement of Jesus to an attempt to follow his teachings and learn to obey His commands.

[b.a.worldchanger]

I was a christ follower, disciple, christian, believer, whatever for over 30 years, so it is important to kind of let us know some details of your version of that... hardly any two are alike. But never fear, hardly any two "atheists" here can define our atheism exactly the same way either - so we will all learn together, eh?

@Neopagan,
I suppose I could start by saying that I started out in the movement (denomination) called the Assemblies of God.  This is a large pentecostal denomination born around the turn of the 20th century.  Much of my early influence came out of this particular denomination.  Since then, I've moved away from the idea of denominations a bit as I see them as more dividing than unifying, as I'm sure is evidenced by the vast variety that exist.  I currently serve as a pastor/elder in a Calvary Chapel church.  It is a more loosely affiliated movement that doesn't really have as rigid of structure you would find in a denomination, and it puts a large emphasis on going through the scripture.  In all the church fellowships I've been a part of, Calvary Chapels tend to put a greater emphasis on the Word of God, and teach directly through it from it week after week, as opposed to topical sermons like "10 steps to a better marriage" where scripture of all kinds is pulled both in and out of context to fit the viewpoint of the one teaching.  Rather, the scripture is examined in context.  So, for example, we are currently going through the books of 1 Corinthians and Hebrews right now.

Oh, this post put me over the dreaded 666, so I am apparently not he antichrist.

[ParkingPlaces]

b.s.

Another question we like having the answer to early on in discussions with theists is how literally you interpret the bible. Especially the old testament. That is, was Adam made from dust, was the banishment from Eden literal, was there a flood, is the earth young, etc. If you could give us an overview it might help prevent erroneous assumptions when responding to things that you post.

[neopagan]

thanks baw - for the clarification.

I think we have some former pastors here as well, so you should enjoy some lively discussion.  There are definitely a lot of former christians here, so you won't be dealing with folks who don't know what you are talking about - they will be especially aware of what the bible actually says.  I was an elder for some time also in my Southern Baptist history; also dabbled in some community churches and the Presbyterian Church of America (that would be the conservative version, btw).

Enjoy

[LoriPinkAngel]

Hello and welcome.  I used to be the crazy theist but I gave up.  I realized there was no presence of god in my life.  So now I am just plain crazy.  But otherwise nothing has changed.  You will find every type of personality here.  You will find acceptance and you won't.  You will find support and you will find ridicule.  It just depends on where you look.  You will definitely find stimulation and relief from boredom.  You can even find music, comedy and art if you look around enough.  This is a great forum.

[Nick]

Welcome aboard baw. I hope you enjoy your time here and stick around awhile.

I was a christ follower, disciple, christian, believer, whatever for over 30 years, so it is important to kind of let us know some details of your version of that... hardly any two are alike. But never fear, hardly any two "atheists" here can define our atheism exactly the same way either - so we will all learn together, eh?

Oh, this post put me over the dreaded 666, so I am apparently not he antichrist.

I think we need a 2nd opinion.

[ParkingPlaces]

Oh, this post put me over the dreaded 666, so I am apparently not he antichrist.

We did some research, and found out that the number of the antichrist is actually 809. So you're not in the clear yet 

(For some reason, my father thought that hid dad had died at the age of 56. So he apparently sweated through for years thinking that he might only live that long himself. When he turned 57, he said proudly to his brother "Hey, I've outlived dad!" His brother said "Whatta you mean? Dad was 65 when he died."

This did not cheer my father up at all. And my dad lived to be 89, so it was all for naught anyway. Such is life.)

[wright]

Welcome, b.a.w. Hope to see you around the forums.

[Boots]

Welcome aboard baw. I hope you enjoy your time here and stick around awhile.

I was a christ follower, disciple, christian, believer, whatever for over 30 years, so it is important to kind of let us know some details of your version of that... hardly any two are alike. But never fear, hardly any two "atheists" here can define our atheism exactly the same way either - so we will all learn together, eh?

Oh, this post put me over the dreaded 666, so I am apparently not he antichrist.

I think we need a 2nd opinion.

I think we need a 665th opinion

[Nam]

@Emily,

I suppose it would be more helpful to describe myself as a "Christian".  Personally, I don't really like that particular label, I think it has been diluted to mean just about anything and everything, provided you acknowledge a belief in Jesus (which I indeed do).  So, I prefer the label of "Christ Follower" or "Disciple" as that is what I strive to be, not just merely a Christian.

But isn't that the definition of a Christian? A person who is a follower of Jesus? Or do you believe he was not the "Christ"?

-Nam

[b.a.worldchanger]

b.s.

Another question we like having the answer to early on in discussions with theists is how literally you interpret the bible. Especially the old testament. That is, was Adam made from dust, was the banishment from Eden literal, was there a flood, is the earth young, etc. If you could give us an overview it might help prevent erroneous assumptions when responding to things that you post.

Sure, I'll take a stab at this if it will help you attempt to understand my positions better.  I believe the Bible is composed of many literary styles, composed by many authors.  I tend to agree with the belief that there was a literal creation, not sure it actually occurred over 6 literal days, or whether the "days" represent eras by today's standards of time.  I tend to hold to the idea that they are indeed literal days, and that Adam and Eve were literal people mainly because other Scripture from Moses and Jesus tends to lend support to this idea.  I do believe there was a flood, mainly, again, because other scripture found throughout the Bible seems to accept it as a literal event.  As to whether the earth is young or not, I do not have a good answer for you there.  I have listened to many treatments explaining all sorts of positions and evidences, but I do not know.  However, whether the earth is young or old does not have too much bearing on my personal faith.

[Nam]

So basically: the Bible says it's true therefore it must be true.

You're no different than any other run-of-the-mill Christian. Too bad.

-Nam

[b.a.worldchanger]

So basically: the Bible says it's true therefore it must be true.

You're no different than any other run-of-the-mill Christian. Too bad.

-Nam

If you took the time to get to know me, I think the possibility exists that your snap judgment would likely contradict your assertions regarding Christians in your thread about the Bible started by Hatter.

[Nam]

So basically: the Bible says it's true therefore it must be true.

You're no different than any other run-of-the-mill Christian. Too bad.

-Nam

If you took the time to get to know me, I think the possibility exists that your snap judgment would likely contradict your assertions regarding Christians in your thread about the Bible started by Hatter.

No one here needs to get to know you except by what you say here either in reply or in statement, and you seem quite clear to me that you're just the run-of-the-mill Christian that we have seen come and go from this website over the years.

Your words say it. You may think you're different but your replies say otherwise. So, there's no "snap judgments" on my part, your words speak for themselves.

-Nam

[neopagan]

BAW...

I think Nam hit the nail on the head insofar as he said you are of the same variety of xians we get here (and I used to be myself) when we hear you say (with my bold):

I tend to hold to the idea that they are indeed literal days, and that Adam and Eve were literal people mainly because other Scripture from Moses and Jesus tends to lend support to this idea. I do believe there was a flood, mainly, again, because other scripture found throughout the Bible seems to accept it as a literal event.

It all comes down to you reading something in the bible, augmented by similar somethings in the bible and proclaiming you believe them.  Many of those cross-referenced somethings are completely bonkers (the two examples you used are prevalent in other religious myths predating YHWH) and cannot have occurred (ok, ok, 99.9999% sure).  Yet... bible said it... it's true.  Do you have the same standards for the koran or any other holy book from the multitude of religions out there?  Instead of disregarding all religious claims in holy books that lack any evidence... the bible gets special treatment?

So yeah, Nam is our resident self-admitted asshole - but he makes a valid point. 

[hickdive]

ba, despite what you might think, your views are neither new nor unique.

Every time we get a new christian here they seem to think they are somehow going to make some unassailable point that we've never heard of before and we'll all rush to become christians as a result. That has never happened; thus far we've seen everything you people have to offer.

Every time we get a new christian here I hope they'll bring something new and interesting to the discussion. You never know - they might have that elusive argument that convinces me to convert or at least give me something to chew on. But that never happens and so far you've proven to be no different from the rest.

You've brought along a bog-standard circular reasoning approach along with an entirely un-inventive contextual reading of the bible. The problem with the former is that the same technique can be used to render any fictional work "real". The problem with the latter is that it always involves reading in the very narrow context of that particular book of the bible and ignores where it contradicts other parts of the bible.

[allissiahh]

heyyy..... i belong to a certain religion by birth but am fed up of its patriachal traditions
and prejudice against women and all in the name of god....

i cant say am an atheist or wanna be but i'd like to belong one such religion
which has a value system that doesnt demean women. a religion which doesnt
segregate humans on the basis of caste or gender.

i stumbled upon this amazing forum.
am expecting to have some candid and rational and reformist discussions with the members of this forum...

thank you!!!

[ParkingPlaces]

Welcome allissiahh

While you might find a shortage of reformists around here, many of us are happy to discuss religious issues of the sort that have lead to your dismissal of certain religious traditions. Our views may not match yours, but they won't match the views prescribed by your religious background either.

[neopagan]

welcome allissiahh
I hope you enjoy your time here.
As PP said, not too many religious reformers around here, but stick around and you might just get reformed.  I think you have identified one of the problems of religion... now just expand your thinking about the solutions.  Good luck.

[Nam]

heyyy..... i belong to a certain religion by birth but am fed up of its patriachal traditions
and prejudice against women and all in the name of god....

i cant say am an atheist or wanna be but i'd like to belong one such religion
which has a value system that doesnt demean women. a religion which doesnt
segregate humans on the basis of caste or gender.

i stumbled upon this amazing forum.
am expecting to have some candid and rational and reformist discussions with the members of this forum...

thank you!!!

All religions have biases toward one group of people or more, if not then they wouldn't be a religion for, in my opinion, that is what religion is: this is the way things are, we're right everyone else is wrong, and you'll only find enlightenment with what we believe.

Though there are a good many atheists who go by the same standards (I'm right, your wrong) atheism is not a religion. There are no books[1], no laws, no nothing. We are free to be who we are as individuals, free to voice our concerns on the world without a hierarchy that tells us our moral obligations, or what they deem to be immoral.

Whether a deity exists or not is irrelevant, if not then we see life as we choose, if so then one must falter from such inclination and live up to the idealism and philosophy of such a being, and never truly being free unless in rebellion of such a being.

Religion and deities can't provide such things since, it's their truth or no truth.

-Nam

1.	in the sense that all atheists must follow