Author Topic: We're screwed: Pacific is becoming radioactive...  (Read 641 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online ParkingPlaces

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6121
  • Darwins +689/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • Hide and Seek World Champion since 1958!
We're screwed: Pacific is becoming radioactive...
« on: August 30, 2013, 06:10:14 PM »
If these reports are true, the Japanese have not been honest about how bad the Fukushima nuclear power plant has been leaking, and apparently radiation is getting into all the sea life, and it will continue to spread until the entire Pacific is glowing, at least figuratively. Some are suggesting that we refrain from eating fish from the Pacific. Ever again.

http://www.trueactivist.com/fukushima-your-days-of-eating-pacific-ocean-fish-are-over/

Being as the linked site obviously leans far left, I don't know how accurate the article is. (I also lean left, but I don't pretend to be right all the tie) But if it is reasonably so, we're officially screwed.

There is also this picture, making the rounds in Twitter. Hope it's 'shopped.

http://www.coolbuster.net/2013/08/japan-boiling-sea-viral-photo.html

If everything starts glowing in the dark, at least we'll all have the night vision we all wished we had.

Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11680
  • Darwins +290/-80
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: We're screwed: Pacific is becoming radioactive...
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2013, 06:14:10 PM »
Far-left websites should be taken with a grain of salt. They are about as propagandist as far-right websites and FAUX NOISE, of course.

-Nam
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Offline jaimehlers

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4623
  • Darwins +511/-12
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: We're screwed: Pacific is becoming radioactive...
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2013, 06:44:15 PM »
Could it be a problem?  Yes.

Is it likely to be so much of a problem that the entire Pacific Ocean will be unusable?  Not likely.

Offline Nick

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 10294
  • Darwins +177/-8
  • Gender: Male
Re: We're screwed: Pacific is becoming radioactive...
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2013, 06:56:16 PM »
If this is true, and I would not doubt it, what can be done when it is doing this.  It is not like the one in Russia that they built a cement fort around it.  I may not be able to be stopped.  How many 100,000 years will it take to work itself out?  Just pretend it is not a problem and it will go away...or we will.

But I don't want to sound all negative.  I guess we can look forward to our fish sticks glowing.  Might come in handy when you go to the frig in the middle of the night for a snack.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2013, 06:57:55 PM by Nick »
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Online ParkingPlaces

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6121
  • Darwins +689/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • Hide and Seek World Champion since 1958!
Re: We're screwed: Pacific is becoming radioactive...
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2013, 09:27:12 PM »
Far-left websites should be taken with a grain of salt. They are about as propagandist as far-right websites and FAUX NOISE, of course.

-Nam

The problem is if I can't trust the right to tell the truth, and I can't trust the left, and there is nobody in the middle, how do I guess right? Knowing gets hard sometimes.

This isn't like in Syria, where everything is as clear as mud.  :o

Anyway, if there actually is a big problem, I'd like to know about it.

Japan is admitting they have a big problem, and that lots of radioactive water is leaking into the ocean, which is simply not good. Many species of fish swim back and forth across the entire ocean and if they get in radioactive waters then move east to the Americas, and nobody gives a shit, our fish sandwiches at McDonalds will start being even worse than usual.

I guess what I would like is a more accurate assessment of the situation. If anybody sees one that seems to be from a trustworthy source, let us know.

I'm hearing good things about Al Jazeera. Here is their latest article: http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/8/21/japan-to-upgradefukushimathreatlevel.html
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Online ParkingPlaces

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6121
  • Darwins +689/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • Hide and Seek World Champion since 1958!
Re: We're screwed: Pacific is becoming radioactive...
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2013, 09:45:00 PM »
Good. I found a less alarmist point of view, from, get this, scientists!

http://www.livescience.com/39340-fukushima-radioactive-plume-reach-us-2014.html

The radiation is indeed headed our way, and should start hitting US coastal waters next year. In low doses. Stuff won't hardly glow at all. And it is a radioactive material with a half-life of 30 years, so hey, what could possibly go wrong.

I'm hoping the situation is this benign. In which case I'll apologize about scaring you guys.
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline wright

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1732
  • Darwins +72/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • "Sleep like a log, snore like a chainsaw."
Re: We're screwed: Pacific is becoming radioactive...
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2013, 10:37:58 PM »
I find the Straight Dope a decent site for getting the gist of such topics. Here's their take on Chernobyl and nuclear power in general: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2988/is-nuclear-power-safe.

To sum up: all sources of energy have associated risks. Frankly, I'm more worried about the relative lack of accountability by energy-providing corporations for the messes their industries inevitably create. I find increased energy costs much more palatable if I know the pursuers of the almighty bottom line are responsible for fixing their own mistakes.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Offline Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11680
  • Darwins +290/-80
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: We're screwed: Pacific is becoming radioactive...
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2013, 10:54:23 PM »
Far-left websites should be taken with a grain of salt. They are about as propagandist as far-right websites and FAUX NOISE, of course.

-Nam

The problem is if I can't trust the right to tell the truth, and I can't trust the left, and there is nobody in the middle, how do I guess right? Knowing gets hard sometimes.

This isn't like in Syria, where everything is as clear as mud.  :o

Anyway, if there actually is a big problem, I'd like to know about it.

Japan is admitting they have a big problem, and that lots of radioactive water is leaking into the ocean, which is simply not good. Many species of fish swim back and forth across the entire ocean and if they get in radioactive waters then move east to the Americas, and nobody gives a shit, our fish sandwiches at McDonalds will start being even worse than usual.

I guess what I would like is a more accurate assessment of the situation. If anybody sees one that seems to be from a trustworthy source, let us know.

I'm hearing good things about Al Jazeera. Here is their latest article: http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/8/21/japan-to-upgradefukushimathreatlevel.html

Gather as much information, from varying sources, and make an estimate of what you believe, or what actually is the "truth" from the information given.

If people just took one source, or one set of sources (right, left, biased, etc.,) as being true than they are drones to only the reality of which they wish to believe.

-Nam
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Offline pianodwarf

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4350
  • Darwins +206/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • Je bois ton lait frappé
Re: We're screwed: Pacific is becoming radioactive...
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2013, 11:05:17 PM »
The problem is if I can't trust the right to tell the truth, and I can't trust the left, and there is nobody in the middle, how do I guess right? Knowing gets hard sometimes.

Indeed.  On one of my favorite TV shows, "Babylon 5", the alien race known as the Vorlons had a saying.  "Understanding is a three-edged sword: your side, their side, and the truth."
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Online ParkingPlaces

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6121
  • Darwins +689/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • Hide and Seek World Champion since 1958!
Re: We're screwed: Pacific is becoming radioactive...
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2013, 11:40:30 PM »
We humans can't do too many things right. If we can't even provide ourselves with reliable information, if we can't be honest about serious problems and can't agree on the need for solutions, then perhaps that is why we are screwed. Compared to that, radiation problems are nothing.



Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11680
  • Darwins +290/-80
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: We're screwed: Pacific is becoming radioactive...
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2013, 02:38:13 AM »
We humans can't do too many things right. If we can't even provide ourselves with reliable information, if we can't be honest about serious problems and can't agree on the need for solutions, then perhaps that is why we are screwed. Compared to that, radiation problems are nothing.

It's what we make of it. If we choose to hide in the darkness then we will be consumed by the darkness yet if we choose to allow some light in, even if minimal, or perhaps encompassing, then we choose to be better than our fears.

In this case: the truth is the darkness, and most, sadly, wish to be consumed by it.[1]

-Nam
 1. the Nam you know and loathe will return tomorrow ;)
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Offline DVZ3

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1335
  • Darwins +40/-7
  • Gender: Male
Re: We're screwed: Pacific is becoming radioactive...
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2013, 07:28:38 AM »
We humans can't do too many things right. If we can't even provide ourselves with reliable information, if we can't be honest about serious problems and can't agree on the need for solutions, then perhaps that is why we are screwed. Compared to that, radiation problems are nothing.



I suppose by the current trends socially, politically, are no match for the trend in science and computer processing potential which explains a lot. The year 2045-ish might be too late for the human race.

Quote
Humans are becoming intimately merged with machines

In some fields, the pace of technology has become so fast that humans can no longer comprehend it without augmenting their own intelligence. This is particularly true of computing, nanotechnology, medicine and neuroscience, all of which have seen exponential progress.*

The typical home PC of today has an integrated AI system equivalent to over a billion human brains.* This machine can think for itself, communicate with its user and suggest new ideas in ways that surpass even the greatest minds on Earth. Due to the flood of data being exchanged on the Internet and elsewhere, these computers receive literally millions of emails and other communications each day.

The only way for a user to interpret this avalanche of information is to merge their consciousness with the machine. A growing segment of society is now turning to on-person hardware to achieve this. The most advanced method involves the use of microscopic, wireless, implantable devices linking neural activity directly to electronic circuitry. These "nanobots" have already been used in full immersion VR and certain medical procedures. The latest versions are capable of marrying AI with human intelligence in ways that combine the best aspects of both.



http://www.futuretimeline.net/21stcentury/2045.htm#man-machine


Quote
2070 - 2079 Fusion power is widespread

Most leading countries now have at least one fusion plant either operational, or in the process of construction.* These reactors offer a clean, safe and abundant supply of energy. Alas, they have come too late to prevent runaway global warming.



True or not true today doen't mean we shouldn't be investigating future trends. Makes things a bit more interesting anyway.


http://www.futuretimeline.net/
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 07:39:07 AM by DVZ3 »
Hguols: "Its easier for me to believe that a God created everything...."

Offline Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11680
  • Darwins +290/-80
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: We're screwed: Pacific is becoming radioactive...
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2013, 11:17:40 AM »
Is that last picture a jungle gym? ;)

-Nam
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Offline Traveler

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2056
  • Darwins +142/-2
  • Gender: Female
  • no god required
    • I am a Forum Guide
    • Gryffin Designs
Re: We're screwed: Pacific is becoming radioactive...
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2013, 03:06:47 PM »
I remember when the first photos were coming out of the Fukushima disaster. Everyone was saying things were pretty ok, but that plant was TRASHED. Anyone with half a brain could tell we were in DEEP doodoo, and it kills me the level of denial both during and since then. The ocean is a pretty delicate ecosystem, especially reef systems. I do hope this isn't as bad as I think it is likely to be.

Now I'm depressed.  :(
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12210
  • Darwins +267/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: We're screwed: Pacific is becoming radioactive...
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2013, 03:10:55 PM »
I'd be interested in seeing the mathematical values being graphed there.  You know.  If it's not just a piece of artwork.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline DVZ3

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1335
  • Darwins +40/-7
  • Gender: Male
Re: We're screwed: Pacific is becoming radioactive...
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2013, 04:14:15 PM »
If you think about the rate about which science, knowledge, and more importantly computer processing power literally doubles every 18 months (Moore's Law) since the invention of th CPU and compare it to social, economic, and political trends it's an obvious, exponential known variable. I can't think of anything else that has had an exponential impact of time than this scenario compared to others in all of recorded history.

Great read in if you're interested in tech and correlates most of what is predicted and why.
http://www.amazon.com/Visions-Science-Will-Revolutionize-Century/dp/0385484992

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=michio%20kaku%20visions&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CHAQtwIwBg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DBzDXn5HzzEc&ei=n1siUrrADqSxsASWmIHADQ&usg=AFQjCNG67BZpWx3S7KlXV1spNXoR4qEUzw&bvm=bv.51495398,d.cWc



Hguols: "Its easier for me to believe that a God created everything...."

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12210
  • Darwins +267/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: We're screwed: Pacific is becoming radioactive...
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2013, 04:17:59 PM »
So what you're saying then, DVZ3, is that no - there's no math or science involved in composing that graph at all, it's just artwork to express a point.

That's all I asked.  Kind of misleading to present it as a graph, but w/e.  Pseudoscience is like that.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline DVZ3

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1335
  • Darwins +40/-7
  • Gender: Male
Re: We're screwed: Pacific is becoming radioactive...
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2013, 04:37:15 PM »
It may not be able to expressed as a exact mathematical model but I'd say it represents the last 50 years pretty much exactly how I would graph based on history and future trends.

You let me know when you come up with a better way and an exact mathematical model to communicate this information to the best physicists, mathematicians, and future analysist so we can be just as condescending to them as well!  ;)

I think you missed at the bottom where this was posted from... It not fact but is based on current trends.  ;)

http://www.futuretimeline.net/

Quote
Welcome to the future! Below, you will find a speculative timeline of future history. Part fact and part fiction, the timeline is based on detailed research that includes analysis of current trends, long-term environmental changes, advances in technology such as Moore's Law, future medical breakthroughs, the evolving geopolitical landscape and more. Where possible, references have been provided to support the predictions. We also have a blog covering the latest news and breakthroughs. FutureTimeline is an ongoing, collaborative project that is open for discussion – we welcome ideas from scientists, futurists, inventors, writers and anyone else interested in future trends.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 04:43:16 PM by DVZ3 »
Hguols: "Its easier for me to believe that a God created everything...."

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12210
  • Darwins +267/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: We're screwed: Pacific is becoming radioactive...
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2013, 04:40:30 PM »
I'm sure the technology bar represents some sloppy rendering of the real accelerating advancements in some areas of our technology.

How are the other bars calculated?  Anywhere?

The image's point may be valid, but in itself it is still an exercise in pseudoscience.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline DVZ3

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1335
  • Darwins +40/-7
  • Gender: Male
Re: We're screwed: Pacific is becoming radioactive...
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2013, 04:46:30 PM »
See my edit above as I think you are taking it to be exact fact which wasn't th point. Trends are not facts but indeed trends. Trends are meant to be statiscal data points to better calculate an outcome that cannot be scientifically measured or made into an exact mathematical model.

Trends really is the whole basis for this site actually. There's virtually no evidence to a universal existence of god and therefore in the future this trend will not only continue but strengthen with time, knowledge, and intelligence.

One of my favorite trends!

http://www.futuretimeline.net/23rdcentury/2200-2249.htm#christianity
2240

Christianity is fading from American culture

« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 04:55:59 PM by DVZ3 »
Hguols: "Its easier for me to believe that a God created everything...."

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12210
  • Darwins +267/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: We're screwed: Pacific is becoming radioactive...
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2013, 05:26:47 PM »
See my edit above as I think you are taking it to be exact fact which wasn't th point. Trends are not facts but indeed trends. Trends are meant to be statiscal data points to better calculate an outcome that cannot be scientifically measured or made into an exact mathematical model.

No, I'm not taking it to be exact fact.  I know it's presented as an approximation - hence the lack of any numbers along the axes.  But as you say, trends are extrapolations of statistics.  Statistics are measured.  I'm curious about, for example, which SI unit is used to measure political change.  Or social change.[1]  It is the Newton?  Or the Meter?  Maybe that's too big a measurement, and we need nanometers.

See, it's not the tech line that I'm taking issue with.  It's the other three, and the presumption that they can be quantitatively compared.  That's pseudoscience.
 1. I don't mean measure precisely - I mean to measure them quantitatively at all, in such a way that they can be meaningfully summed up and compared against each other and against technological change.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2013, 05:38:37 PM by Azdgari »
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.