Author Topic: harmful anti-science nonsense  (Read 420 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline wright

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1732
  • Darwins +72/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • "Sleep like a log, snore like a chainsaw."
harmful anti-science nonsense
« on: August 27, 2013, 08:00:24 PM »
Warning: if you've already had your fill of anti-science idiocy affecting innocents, read no further.

So, it's been routine for the last fifty years or so to give newborns (in the US at least) an injection of vitamin K. This supplements the limited supply they have at birth and prevents a rare form of internal bleeding. In recent years, some parents have expressed concern about this (apparently as a result of some now-discredited studies, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_K#Vitamin_K_injection_in_newborns) and begun to opt out of having it done.

Surprise, surprise: in Tennessee recently, some babies have been admitted to a children's hospital suffering from brain or GI bleeding because their parents decided modern medicine was just too scary.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20130826/NEWS07/308260027/TN-newborns-get-rare-bleeding-disorder-after-parents-refused-vitamin-K-shots

Now their very young children are in intensive care. I wonder what those parents are thinking now.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 08:10:25 PM by wright »
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Offline Nick

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 10294
  • Darwins +177/-8
  • Gender: Male
Re: harmful anti-science nonsense
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2013, 08:02:42 PM »
I'm sure they are thinking "we need to pray for God to heal our child".  I'm beginning to question the theory of evolution.  We seem to be going backwards.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline ParkingPlaces

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6105
  • Darwins +685/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • Hide and Seek World Champion since 1958!
Re: harmful anti-science nonsense
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2013, 09:28:16 PM »
When I was born in the early 50's, the infant mortality rate in the US was around 33 per hundred thousand births. Now it is under six. Are these idiots thinking we need to go back in time or something?

When the vitamin industry tells me I need to take a bunch of their pills, I tell them to suck it. But when a doctor says I need a vitamin, I'll listen. But stuff like this, vitamins, and the anti-inoculation crowd, I just don't get.

Ignorance I can almost tolerate. Doing ignorant things I cannot.

Apparently there is a new song in the hymnals: Kill Your Kid for Jesus, Kill Your Kid for God. It must have a catchy tune.
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11679
  • Darwins +290/-80
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: harmful anti-science nonsense
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2013, 12:17:01 AM »
It's an American tune, of course it's catchy.

-Nam
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Offline wright

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1732
  • Darwins +72/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • "Sleep like a log, snore like a chainsaw."
Re: harmful anti-science nonsense
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2013, 03:20:26 AM »
When I was born in the early 50's, the infant mortality rate in the US was around 33 per hundred thousand births. Now it is under six. Are these idiots thinking we need to go back in time or something?

PP, I think that's exactly what some people think. They're so terrified of what they see as the negative effects of modern technology and science that they'd rather (or so they tell themselves) put up with horrendous infant mortality, adult life expectancy being cut by a third or half and hardscrabble unmechanized (and unenhanced by modern fertilizers) farming.

Fortunately, such parasitic reactionaries are and always have been a minority. It's just that with the same science they decry, their ignorant, poisonous rantings get far wider exposure now. A minority- but a potentially harmful one, as my OP shows.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Offline ParkingPlaces

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6105
  • Darwins +685/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • Hide and Seek World Champion since 1958!
Re: harmful anti-science nonsense
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2013, 09:05:14 AM »
When I was born in the early 50's, the infant mortality rate in the US was around 33 per hundred thousand births. Now it is under six. Are these idiots thinking we need to go back in time or something?

PP, I think that's exactly what some people think. They're so terrified of what they see as the negative effects of modern technology and science that they'd rather (or so they tell themselves) put up with horrendous infant mortality, adult life expectancy being cut by a third or half and hardscrabble unmechanized (and unenhanced by modern fertilizers) farming.

Fortunately, such parasitic reactionaries are and always have been a minority. It's just that with the same science they decry, their ignorant, poisonous rantings get far wider exposure now. A minority- but a potentially harmful one, as my OP shows.

I agree completely. But the saddest part is the kids that have these atavistic parents  don't get the level of care that is available, nor the shots. Some of them die. Some of them end up being disabled for life. That shouldn't be.
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Online jaimehlers

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4609
  • Darwins +502/-11
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: harmful anti-science nonsense
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2013, 09:55:15 AM »
PP, I think that's exactly what some people think. They're so terrified of what they see as the negative effects of modern technology and science that they'd rather (or so they tell themselves) put up with horrendous infant mortality, adult life expectancy being cut by a third or half and hardscrabble unmechanized (and unenhanced by modern fertilizers) farming.

Fortunately, such parasitic reactionaries are and always have been a minority. It's just that with the same science they decry, their ignorant, poisonous rantings get far wider exposure now. A minority- but a potentially harmful one, as my OP shows.
While I'm sure there's a few people like that[1], I suspect that there's a much greater number who have no conception of just how bad things were in the past.  To them, the tiny possibility of having an autistic child due to immunizations is far more real than the far greater probability of having their child die or be permanently harmed by lethal childhood diseases which they're not immunized for.

The story you cited here is another example of the same situation.  For whatever reason, they were convinced that Vitamin K injections were potentially harmful, and so refused them.  I wouldn't be surprised if they had a change of heart now that they've seen the harm such delusional nonsense will do.
 1. Such as the people who don't give their children proper medical care, end up having them die, and then repeat the same mistake with their next children.

Offline Nick

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 10294
  • Darwins +177/-8
  • Gender: Male
Re: harmful anti-science nonsense
« Reply #7 on: August 28, 2013, 01:48:52 PM »
Yeah, we might be attacking Syria soon for the way they treat their people.  Maybe we should attack ourselves for the way lots of Christians treat their children.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Tero

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 705
  • Darwins +17/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: harmful anti-science nonsense
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2013, 02:53:34 PM »
The whole libertarian angle to life is growing in all parts. They pretty much distrust everything and everyone. A NY times article addressed this. I think it had something to do with lack of real communities and multgenerational families. You are not part of anything anymore so you have to distrust all.

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6193
  • Darwins +781/-4
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: harmful anti-science nonsense
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2013, 03:23:03 PM »
These parents only have to look at countries where the governments cannot do these simple things--due to lack of money or lack of stable infrastructure--  and see how high the child mortality rates are. Or do they think that more babies die in India and Afghanistan because the people there are not Christians? Then they have to account for the lower rates of children dying in non-Christian Japan. &)

It is sad that we now have good information about the world at our fingertips, and still so many of us choose to remain ignorant.  :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Boots

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1236
  • Darwins +94/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Living the Dream
Re: harmful anti-science nonsense
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2013, 03:36:02 PM »
To them, the tiny possibility of having an autistic child due to immunizations is far more real than the far greater probability of having their child die or be permanently harmed by lethal childhood diseases which they're not immunized for.

Studies have thrown the original "research" linking autism to immunizations into question, to the extent that most reasonable people reject even the tiny possibility you mention.

And it's not bad enough that the 'grown ups' are endangering their own kids because of ignorance re: immunization, they are endangering MINE too, by allowing outbreaks of nearly extinct diseases in their little pockets of stupidity.
* Religion: institutionalized superstition, period.

"Many of my ultra-conservative Republican friends...have trouble accepting the idea God is not a Republican. " ~OldChurchGuy

"We humans may never figure out the truth, but I prefer trying to find it over pretending we know it."  ~ParkingPlaces

Offline wright

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1732
  • Darwins +72/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • "Sleep like a log, snore like a chainsaw."
Re: harmful anti-science nonsense
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2013, 04:15:23 PM »

While I'm sure there's a few people like that[1], I suspect that there's a much greater number who have no conception of just how bad things were in the past. 
 1. Such as the people who don't give their children proper medical care, end up having them die, and then repeat the same mistake with their next children.

These parents only have to look at countries where the governments cannot do these simple things--due to lack of money or lack of stable infrastructure--  and see how high the child mortality rates are.

Exactly. It drives me a bit crazy, that people fail to appreciate how immensely better the modern world is compared to any other point in human history. Though there are still tragic inequities, the overall health, diet, education, peacefulness and wealth of human beings has reached unprecedented levels in just a few generations. That's one of the things that gives me some hope for our future.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Online jaimehlers

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4609
  • Darwins +502/-11
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: harmful anti-science nonsense
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2013, 04:48:18 PM »
Studies have thrown the original "research" linking autism to immunizations into question, to the extent that most reasonable people reject even the tiny possibility you mention.
By the time the truth gets to the airport, lies have already flown across the country.

Offline ParkingPlaces

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6105
  • Darwins +685/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • Hide and Seek World Champion since 1958!
Re: harmful anti-science nonsense
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2013, 05:56:34 PM »
To them, the tiny possibility of having an autistic child due to immunizations is far more real than the far greater probability of having their child die or be permanently harmed by lethal childhood diseases which they're not immunized for.

Studies have thrown the original "research" linking autism to immunizations into question, to the extent that most reasonable people reject even the tiny possibility you mention.

And it's not bad enough that the 'grown ups' are endangering their own kids because of ignorance re: immunization, they are endangering MINE too, by allowing outbreaks of nearly extinct diseases in their little pockets of stupidity.

Correct. One of the problems with little kids is that they can't get most of the inoculations they need (maybe all, I don't know) until they are six months old. Which means that if they get exposed to measles or some other contagious disease during that period, they are unprotected. If everyone was getting their shots, there would be virtually no incidents of most diseases that are preventable via such inoculations.
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11679
  • Darwins +290/-80
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: harmful anti-science nonsense
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2013, 06:16:04 PM »
Yeah, we might be attacking Syria soon for the way they treat their people.  Maybe we should attack ourselves for the way lots of Christians treat their children.

For the use of chemical weapons, they've been treating their people badly for years before and we didn't invade, or attack.

-Nam
This is my signature "Nam", don't I have nice typing skills?

Offline Nick

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 10294
  • Darwins +177/-8
  • Gender: Male
Re: harmful anti-science nonsense
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2013, 08:31:00 PM »
Well, tonight it looks like those in Europe like Britain is backing down.  We won't do this alone will we?
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Tero

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 705
  • Darwins +17/-3
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: harmful anti-science nonsense
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2013, 08:42:15 AM »
There is generally a distrust of The Gubment. My dad had a man working for him in Florida who was barely literate. He could read lists of product and check off tables and boxes. I worked outdoors summers with him. I talked things with Donald while we sorted items to pack. He knew I went to college. He did not believe anything that came from a book! He was not dumb, he would quiz me about experiments I had done. If I had first hand experience on some matter, he would "take it into consideration." One day his car broke down and he quit. He found a job he could walk to. It took me and my dad 12 hours to do what he could do in 4 hours alone.