Author Topic: Why are scientists afraid of god?  (Read 18495 times)

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Offline Boots

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #435 on: January 08, 2014, 04:56:32 PM »
I am saved. I know it. Can I prove it? No, but I Know I am. That is MY proof of God.

saved from what?
* Religion: institutionalized superstition, period.

"Many of my ultra-conservative Republican friends...have trouble accepting the idea God is not a Republican. " ~OldChurchGuy

"We humans may never figure out the truth, but I prefer trying to find it over pretending we know it."  ~ParkingPlaces

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #436 on: January 08, 2014, 05:02:09 PM »
I am saved. I know it. Can I prove it? No, but I Know I am. That is MY proof of God.

saved from what?

and this "know" How does he "know?"
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #437 on: January 08, 2014, 05:21:09 PM »
I am saved. I know it. Can I prove it? No, but I Know I am. That is MY proof of God.

saved from what?
Having to think too hard about what it is he actually believes?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #438 on: January 08, 2014, 10:33:03 PM »
I am saved. I know it. Can I prove it? No, but I Know I am. That is MY proof of God.
[/quote]

You see, this is the pickle.

The point of most atheist forums is that the atheists there would like such proof.

If you cannot prove it, then don't talk about it.

*looks at signature....I am a hypocrite...*
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline harbinger77

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #439 on: January 09, 2014, 02:06:52 AM »
saved from hell of course. adopted into the family of God. An hair with Christ.
I just know... I've answered this question before. The answer is rejected. I'll go again though. It's nothing I did. My faith is not in me. My faith is on the work I see God has done. If you knew me you would probably be agnostic at least. My Atheist (reformed) sister is in Church when she can be now. The evidence is seen in my life. Things are just different now. My thoughts, my attitude, everything.

2cor5:17
This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!

This is what I see. By no choice of my own this is what happened. Sometimes I surprise myself even.


This is a serious concept. I would like to hear feed back on these questions.
Can you provide proof that you love someone?
How do you KNOW you love them?
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline Ivellios

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #440 on: January 09, 2014, 07:11:21 AM »
This is a serious concept. I would like to hear feed back on these questions.
Can you provide proof that you love someone?
How do you KNOW you love them?

We've already gone over this before. Actions speak louder than words. A man can claim he loves his wife, but if he keeps beating and putting her in the hospital, does he? A parent can claim they love thier children, but if they abandon (or kill) and have nothing to do with them, but someone else has to say, "Your [parent] really loves you, but they just can't be here right now." Does that parent love thier child(ren)?

You know your mother loves you, because she does things for you, she's there for you when you get hurt, need help. Yes, she could be doing it out of duty, but did you know love isn't just emotions, but a duty as well. You do things for the person you love, not for your benefit, happiness or joy, but for whom you love.

Someone that says they love Jesus more than thier spouse, but refuses to abandon thier spouse to follow Jesus. Who do they love more? The one whose actions make it clear for whom they want to be with, therefore that's who they love. "He who loves thier wife, child, parent more than me, is not worthy of me. " - Jesus

As I said, Actions speak louder than words.

God's love is the equivilent: Someone has sex with your mom, get's her pregnent. Bolts when he finds out there's a bun in the oven. Has nothing to do with you or her since.  You're born, and later someone you don't know tells you, that they know your father, that your father loves you more than anything else. If you're willing to accept an intangible, invisible gift, you can be with your loving father forever, after you die. However, he won't speak to you in any fashion that can be differentiated from your imagination. He will not appear before you unless you hallucinate.

Does that father really love that child? Does the proxy even know the father? Maybe she had a one night stand or got with multiple guys so she doesn't even know who the father is.

Actions speak louder than words.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2014, 07:13:00 AM by Ivellios »

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #441 on: January 09, 2014, 08:04:54 AM »
God's love is the equivilent: Someone has sex with your mom, get's her pregnent. Bolts when he finds out there's a bun in the oven. Has nothing to do with you or her since.

He must take his baking seriously.
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline wheels5894

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #442 on: January 09, 2014, 09:21:04 AM »
saved from hell of course. adopted into the family of God. An hair with Christ.
I just know... I've answered this question before. The answer is rejected. I'll go again though. It's nothing I did. My faith is not in me. My faith is on the work I see God has done. If you knew me you would probably be agnostic at least. My Atheist (reformed) sister is in Church when she can be now. The evidence is seen in my life. Things are just different now. My thoughts, my attitude, everything.

2cor5:17
This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!

This is what I see. By no choice of my own this is what happened. Sometimes I surprise myself even.


This is a serious concept. I would like to hear feed back on these questions.
Can you provide proof that you love someone?
How do you KNOW you love them?

I think someone has already pointed out to you that many things, including becoming an atheist, can bring about a change on one's life. Even a New Year's Resolution, if you keep to it, will change your life. I only have to resolve to lose weight, reduce my alcohol intake and exercise for example, and if I stick to it I become a healthy weight, become healthier - a new person in fact. It matters not what induced you to change but that you changed by your own will and determination. It was you that changed you,  not an outside influence. You may have got the incentive from religion but it was all down to you and you managed it!

As for your text, who wrote it and how do you know whether the writer knew what he was talking about. I seem to think the same writer advocated to getting married as Jesus was returning soon but he was certainly wrong about that!
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline Boots

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #443 on: January 09, 2014, 10:51:05 AM »
saved from hell of course.

How did hell get there?
* Religion: institutionalized superstition, period.

"Many of my ultra-conservative Republican friends...have trouble accepting the idea God is not a Republican. " ~OldChurchGuy

"We humans may never figure out the truth, but I prefer trying to find it over pretending we know it."  ~ParkingPlaces

Offline albeto

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #444 on: January 09, 2014, 11:02:34 AM »
saved from hell of course.

Saved from what your god will do to you if you don't sufficiently love him.

Is this the kind of love you expect from others? Is this how you treat others who don't love you?

The evidence is seen in my life. Things are just different now. My thoughts, my attitude, everything.

When this "evidence" supports the existence of other deities, does it count as well?

This is what I see. By no choice of my own this is what happened. Sometimes I surprise myself even.

I remember feeling this! What a blast into the past.

Can you provide proof that you love someone?
How do you KNOW you love them?

"Love" is a word we use to express a complex set of emotions. There are ways to identify these emotions, yes, but of course "love" is ultimately defined subjectively.

It's probably why you feel like all this is of no choice - you're wrapped up in the emotional experience and so logic is unnecessary. You feel what you feel, and that experience (the emotions) is real, but you attribute this feeling to an illogical, irrational, archaic belief system. Are you afraid this feeling would go away if you looked at the details of your faith carefully?

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #445 on: January 09, 2014, 11:03:42 AM »
saved from hell of course. adopted into the family of God. An hair with Christ.

Just to be clear, you do understand that an eternity of anything is no worse than an eternity of something else, right?

Edit: OFFICIALLY "Reader" W00t.
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #446 on: January 09, 2014, 11:52:50 AM »
The evidence is seen in my life. Things are just different now. My thoughts, my attitude, everything.

When this "evidence" supports the existence of other deities, does it count as well?


Ultimately, to me, this is the strongest argument against gods. Any deity beyond the Deism model stumbles across this problem.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline harbinger77

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #447 on: January 09, 2014, 07:40:07 PM »
saved from hell of course. adopted into the family of God. An hair with Christ.
I just know... I've answered this question before. The answer is rejected. I'll go again though. It's nothing I did. My faith is not in me. My faith is on the work I see God has done. If you knew me you would probably be agnostic at least. My Atheist (reformed) sister is in Church when she can be now. The evidence is seen in my life. Things are just different now. My thoughts, my attitude, everything.

2cor5:17
This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!

This is what I see. By no choice of my own this is what happened. Sometimes I surprise myself even.


This is a serious concept. I would like to hear feed back on these questions.
Can you provide proof that you love someone?
How do you KNOW you love them?

I think someone has already pointed out to you that many things, including becoming an atheist, can bring about a change on one's life. Even a New Year's Resolution, if you keep to it, will change your life. I only have to resolve to lose weight, reduce my alcohol intake and exercise for example, and if I stick to it I become a healthy weight, become healthier - a new person in fact. It matters not what induced you to change but that you changed by your own will and determination. It was you that changed you,  not an outside influence. You may have got the incentive from religion but it was all down to you and you managed it!

As for your text, who wrote it and how do you know whether the writer knew what he was talking about. I seem to think the same writer advocated to getting married as Jesus was returning soon but he was certainly wrong about that!

I think someone did point this out once and I don't disagree. You offer me evidence of choice. That's your breakdown. For arguments sake my choice was Christ. I did not choose to stop cursing. I did not choose a tender heart. I absolutely did not choose to cry over the nastiness of this world at times. I did not choose to not only quit drinking but to loose all desire to do it. I did not choose to no longer desire going to the club.

How can one choose to no longer desire anything? If I made the choice to stop drinking starbucks for example. Would I also no longer desire it? Because I choose to go on a diet do I no longer desire pizza?
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline harbinger77

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #448 on: January 09, 2014, 07:43:44 PM »
saved from hell of course. adopted into the family of God. An hair with Christ.

Just to be clear, you do understand that an eternity of anything is no worse than an eternity of something else, right?

Edit: OFFICIALLY "Reader" W00t.

You just said an eternity in pure torment is no worse than an eternity in pure bliss.. I know you don't believe in heaven and hell or eternity for that matter. Even so maybe you should think a bit about that statement...
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline harbinger77

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #449 on: January 09, 2014, 07:57:44 PM »
saved from hell of course.

Saved from what your god will do to you if you don't sufficiently love him.

Is this the kind of love you expect from others? Is this how you treat others who don't love you?

The evidence is seen in my life. Things are just different now. My thoughts, my attitude, everything.

When this "evidence" supports the existence of other deities, does it count as well?

This is what I see. By no choice of my own this is what happened. Sometimes I surprise myself even.

I remember feeling this! What a blast into the past.

Can you provide proof that you love someone?
How do you KNOW you love them?

"Love" is a word we use to express a complex set of emotions. There are ways to identify these emotions, yes, but of course "love" is ultimately defined subjectively.

It's probably why you feel like all this is of no choice - you're wrapped up in the emotional experience and so logic is unnecessary. You feel what you feel, and that experience (the emotions) is real, but you attribute this feeling to an illogical, irrational, archaic belief system. Are you afraid this feeling would go away if you looked at the details of your faith carefully?

I'm sorry you had false salvation.
They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us

I am logical to a fault. my wife gets very annoyed about that. I don't tend to use emotion to view anything. I have become very good at removing emotion. It only clouds the thought process. The heart is deceitful above all things. As such I have looked at the details carefully and even continue to do so.
Is there a detail or two you would like to bring to my attention for discussion?
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline harbinger77

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #450 on: January 09, 2014, 08:03:03 PM »
saved from hell of course.

Saved from what your god will do to you if you don't sufficiently love him.

Is this the kind of love you expect from others? Is this how you treat others who don't love you?

The evidence is seen in my life. Things are just different now. My thoughts, my attitude, everything.

When this "evidence" supports the existence of other deities, does it count as well?

This is what I see. By no choice of my own this is what happened. Sometimes I surprise myself even.

I remember feeling this! What a blast into the past.

Can you provide proof that you love someone?
How do you KNOW you love them?

"Love" is a word we use to express a complex set of emotions. There are ways to identify these emotions, yes, but of course "love" is ultimately defined subjectively.

It's probably why you feel like all this is of no choice - you're wrapped up in the emotional experience and so logic is unnecessary. You feel what you feel, and that experience (the emotions) is real, but you attribute this feeling to an illogical, irrational, archaic belief system. Are you afraid this feeling would go away if you looked at the details of your faith carefully?
saved from hell of course.

Saved from what your god will do to you if you don't sufficiently love him.

Is this the kind of love you expect from others? Is this how you treat others who don't love you?

The evidence is seen in my life. Things are just different now. My thoughts, my attitude, everything.

When this "evidence" supports the existence of other deities, does it count as well?

This is what I see. By no choice of my own this is what happened. Sometimes I surprise myself even.

I remember feeling this! What a blast into the past.

Can you provide proof that you love someone?
How do you KNOW you love them?

"Love" is a word we use to express a complex set of emotions. There are ways to identify these emotions, yes, but of course "love" is ultimately defined subjectively.

It's probably why you feel like all this is of no choice - you're wrapped up in the emotional experience and so logic is unnecessary. You feel what you feel, and that experience (the emotions) is real, but you attribute this feeling to an illogical, irrational, archaic belief system. Are you afraid this feeling would go away if you looked at the details of your faith carefully?

I'm sorry you had false salvation.
They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us

I am logical to a fault. my wife gets very annoyed about that. I don't tend to use emotion to view anything. I have become very good at removing emotion. It only clouds the thought process. The heart is deceitful above all things. As such I have looked at the details carefully and even continue to do so.
Is there a detail or two you would like to bring to my attention for discussion?

Oh and if you are going to make cross faith claims can you support the position? Thank you.
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #451 on: January 09, 2014, 09:58:54 PM »
You just said an eternity in pure torment is no worse than an eternity in pure bliss..

Yes, I know that, I am only half blind.

I know you don't believe in heaven and hell or eternity for that matter.

Indeed i do not, good observation.

Even so maybe you should think a bit about that statement...



Look at it this way.
You are in pure bliss, then a hundred years pass, then a thousand, then a billion, then six hundred quintrillion, and on, and on.
Eventually it will be no less than pure torture.
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline Boots

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #452 on: January 09, 2014, 11:16:42 PM »
saved from hell of course.

How did hell get there?

just a reminder.  :-)
* Religion: institutionalized superstition, period.

"Many of my ultra-conservative Republican friends...have trouble accepting the idea God is not a Republican. " ~OldChurchGuy

"We humans may never figure out the truth, but I prefer trying to find it over pretending we know it."  ~ParkingPlaces

Offline harbinger77

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #453 on: January 10, 2014, 07:29:36 AM »
saved from hell of course.

How did hell get there?

just a reminder.  :-)

God made it for the devil and his angels..

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

You will end up in kingdom of whichever king you follow.

What's the point?
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline harbinger77

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #454 on: January 10, 2014, 07:44:52 AM »
You just said an eternity in pure torment is no worse than an eternity in pure bliss..


Look at it this way.
You are in pure bliss, then a hundred years pass, then a thousand, then a billion, then six hundred quintrillion, and on, and on.
Eventually it will be no less than pure torture.

I got your point.. monotony, eternal monotony. I just wanted you to see the implication of your statement. I don't think on one hand torment will ever be monotony. I also don't think an eternity learning the finer points of God could become monotony.

What bothers me most is people who have read a handful of scripture and only then because it was part of some article written about "contradictions" No knowledge base but full of comments anyway.

 Like I've said if you don't read the bible for yourself. Even if your goal is to dispute it. You become the sheep following a blind shepherd. The very thing you despise. Chew on that for a bit.
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #455 on: January 10, 2014, 08:08:15 AM »
You are in pure bliss, then a hundred years pass, then a thousand, then a billion, then six hundred quintrillion, and on, and on.
Eventually it will be no less than pure torture.

I thoroughly disagree. However, this is just arguing about Spiderman versus Batman AFAIAC.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Boots

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #456 on: January 10, 2014, 09:03:23 AM »
saved from hell of course.

How did hell get there?

just a reminder.  :-)

God made it for the devil and his angels..

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

You will end up in kingdom of whichever king you follow.

What's the point?

the point is, your god created the entire system, knowing everything that was going to transpire.  He created hell knowing that countless billions of his precious human souls would go there for eternal torment.

the god you worship is a monster.
* Religion: institutionalized superstition, period.

"Many of my ultra-conservative Republican friends...have trouble accepting the idea God is not a Republican. " ~OldChurchGuy

"We humans may never figure out the truth, but I prefer trying to find it over pretending we know it."  ~ParkingPlaces

Offline wheels5894

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #457 on: January 10, 2014, 09:50:18 AM »
You just said an eternity in pure torment is no worse than an eternity in pure bliss..


Look at it this way.
You are in pure bliss, then a hundred years pass, then a thousand, then a billion, then six hundred quintrillion, and on, and on.
Eventually it will be no less than pure torture.

I got your point.. monotony, eternal monotony. I just wanted you to see the implication of your statement. I don't think on one hand torment will ever be monotony. I also don't think an eternity learning the finer points of God could become monotony.

Just a couple of points here. Firstly, what do you mean by an eternity? Do you mean a very long time (which is not infinite) or a literal place where there is no time? the distinction is really important. If there is no time, as the latter suggestion, then no one is really going to experience anything as an action only can happen when there is time. In a timeless place, no action if possible and everything remains just as it is.

On the other hand, maybe you mean just a long time - it an often used figure of speech used that way. In that case, both Heaven and Hell  are within time and action could happen. However even in Heaven, god would not be there as he is defined as being outwith time. So Heaven would be a beautiful place - a garden, the Persian word is paradise, no doubt with lots of great things but no god and, because there is time and hence actions, one could easily manage to sin, perhaps hating someone you meet there who you hated in life.

So, which is it?

Quote
What bothers me most is people who have read a handful of scripture and only then because it was part of some article written about "contradictions" No knowledge base but full of comments anyway.

 Like I've said if you don't read the bible for yourself. Even if your goal is to dispute it. You become the sheep following a blind shepherd. The very thing you despise. Chew on that for a bit.

I imagine you have read lots of the bible but, by the sound of it, you are taking the words literally and the English words at that. no proper exegesis of a text (discovering its meaning) is ever going to be useful without studying the original texts and the variants. The Greek and Hebrew words can easily carry meaning that cannot properly be translated. Whilst we read mindlessly at the texts, why do you work on getting back to the originals
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline harbinger77

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #458 on: January 10, 2014, 09:50:39 AM »
saved from hell of course.

How did hell get there?

just a reminder.  :-)

God made it for the devil and his angels..

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

You will end up in kingdom of whichever king you follow.

What's the point?

the point is, your god created the entire system, knowing everything that was going to transpire.  He created hell knowing that countless billions of his precious human souls would go there for eternal torment.

the god you worship is a monster.

That's what I thought your point was.

You're missing something important though. Using the scripture I offered can you determine who the pit was prepared for? Did He create Hell for you? No He didn't. How then do you end up there? Because you serve the king of Hell rather than the king of Heaven.
Mat12:30
"Anyone who isn't with me opposes me, and anyone who isn't working with me is actually working against me.
 Do you want free will or not?
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #459 on: January 10, 2014, 09:57:29 AM »
That's what I thought your point was.

You're missing something important though. Using the scripture I offered can you determine who the pit was prepared for? Did He create Hell for you? No He didn't. How then do you end up there? Because you serve the king of Hell rather than the king of Heaven.
Mat12:30
"Anyone who isn't with me opposes me, and anyone who isn't working with me is actually working against me.
 Do you want free will or not?
I'd like free will.  You don't leave any room for it though:

God will have Mercy on who He will. Chosen from the foundation of the world to be a forgiven sinner. Before you are born God has  chosen you... or he hasn't.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #460 on: January 10, 2014, 11:09:37 AM »
"Anyone who isn't with me opposes me, and anyone who isn't working with me is actually working against me.

so god is just like George Bush.  You're really not selling me on your god.

You're also not making the case that your god is offering anything more than extortion.
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Offline Boots

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #461 on: January 10, 2014, 11:54:26 AM »

the point is, your god created the entire system, knowing everything that was going to transpire.  He created hell knowing that countless billions of his precious human souls would go there for eternal torment.

the god you worship is a monster.

That's what I thought your point was.

You're missing something important though. Using the scripture I offered can you determine who the pit was prepared for? Did He create Hell for you? No He didn't.

How is that relevant, if I still end up there--and HE KNEW IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN?

Quote
How then do you end up there? Because you serve the king of Hell rather than the king of Heaven.
Mat12:30
"Anyone who isn't with me opposes me, and anyone who isn't working with me is actually working against me.
 Do you want free will or not?

funny.  You just said that you go to hell because you serve the king of hell.  but here...

Quote
God will have Mercy on who He will. Chosen from the foundation of the world to be a forgiven sinner. Before you are born God has  chosen you... or he hasn't.

your god chooses, before you're born, who will go to hell.

Both of these cannot be true.  In which case were you lying?
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Offline wheels5894

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #462 on: January 10, 2014, 12:47:13 PM »
No, there's no lying here but Harbinger is deceived by an old book that is of human origin but that was not well edited and put together so that various alternative viewpoints remain.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Online Graybeard

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #463 on: January 10, 2014, 02:01:52 PM »
I'm sorry you had false salvation.
Now there’s a thought… what is a “real salvation”? The quality of the “salvation” cannot be known until you stand before God, can it?
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This is the definition of the “No True ScotsmanWiki” fallacy.

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I am logical to a fault.
That quote of yours above is proof that you are not at all logical. I suspect it is your wife who is the logical one…
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”