Author Topic: Why are scientists afraid of god?  (Read 23187 times)

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Offline harbinger77

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #348 on: January 03, 2014, 10:28:07 PM »
"Understand why The Church of the FSM was founded . It was created in 2005 by Bobby
Henderson as a satirical protest to the decision by the Kansas State Board of Education to
require the teaching of intelligent design as an alternative to biological evolution in public
schools."

Well yes, it was satirical.

But know that there is some who with utmost certainty, believe that it is true.

What process would you use to say that they are not believing in the right god?

possibly some weed too.

Nah, that's RASTAfarians. Not PASTAfarians.

btw... although not my point. I'm not taking it further than the observation. I could argue, based on the response, that I did inadvertently  make paganism seem more "true" for you. :/

Paganism is no more true than witchcraft, magic, and leprechauns to me.

enter the tulip......

Okay...please tell me what this means...
I have had several theists refer tulpae as "tulips"...
9_6

Do you know people who are professing Pastafarians? I have to assume if they hold these views that are doing so on a strictly satirical basis. If I did have to refute the FSM... I would direct them to this web site and then close my case. FSM committed suicide on day one...

TULIP is reformed theology also known as the doctrines of Grace or the less popular Title.Calvinism
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
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Offline harbinger77

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #349 on: January 03, 2014, 10:43:32 PM »
I've addressed this before. I have faced death a few times in combat. I've had some close calls of my own. I've sent a few home. I have come to terms with death. Even numb on some level. I'm in no way scared to die. yet I watch for the Lords return... Just sayin'

I'm glad to hear that. I brought it up because one theist IRL, trying to convert me, told me JC was coming soon and said I could skip dying if I got myself saved before he showed up. And he said it in a way that made it seem that he was quite relieved that he too could skip dying. I keep forgetting that the bible didn't create a monoculture.

The Christian who thinks he/she can "save you" or that you can even save yourself has a low view of God and a high view of self. I may go so far as to say they don't understand salvation is a gift either.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2014, 11:00:42 PM by harbinger77 »
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline harbinger77

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #350 on: January 03, 2014, 10:58:44 PM »
"Understand why The Church of the FSM was founded . It was created in 2005 by Bobby
Henderson as a satirical protest to the decision by the Kansas State Board of Education to
require the teaching of intelligent design as an alternative to biological evolution in public
schools."

Well yes, it was satirical.

But know that there is some who with utmost certainty, believe that it is true.

What process would you use to say that they are not believing in the right god?

possibly some weed too.

Nah, that's RASTAfarians. Not PASTAfarians.

btw... although not my point. I'm not taking it further than the observation. I could argue, based on the response, that I did inadvertently  make paganism seem more "true" for you. :/

Paganism is no more true than witchcraft, magic, and leprechauns to me.

enter the tulip......

Okay...please tell me what this means...
I have had several theists refer tulpae as "tulips"...
9_6
This is related to yet another post of mine that was never answered. The Gospel and quite a number of other things are offensive. i see it too. If the idea was to write it for population control or what ever excuse you want to use. Why would men write it in such an offensive way? This idea doesn't seem counter productive to you?

Sorry to be a pain, but would you mind linking to the post where you asked a question that was never answered? I'd be interested in reading it, but have joined this conversation a bit late in the game.

I have an idea about why men would write offensive texts, but I don't want to speculate about things no one is talking about.

:)

I restated the general point that it would be counter productive to the desired end result as most commonly stated population control.
The statement assumes men wrote the bible it was not of God and the statement with following questions was directed to someone who holds these views... It's been a while back It may not have even been this thread.
No reason you can't offer reasoning though. Go for it.

on a side note To link to questions unanswered would take some time. You hint at a double standard. other Christians and I are expected to answer even the silliest rhetorical question while almost all of our own go unanswered... part of the territory though I guess.
I think the default answer would be burden of proof.
Have you ever noticed this and if so why do suppose this happens?
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #351 on: January 03, 2014, 11:01:54 PM »
I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that Harbinger only posted the Angus post once, but that god posted the same one three more times. I'm almost convinced now.
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Online jaimehlers

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #352 on: January 03, 2014, 11:33:40 PM »
I direct you to may statement that I started in the occult meaning part of it. not a theoretical glance. This is more inside knowledge of the occult. the same as you can't know what 33rd degree masons believe with a simple google search. Dig deeper.

I further ask you to apply logic. Murder is illegal even if you claim freedom of religion right? Why would they advertise crimes or the intention of crimes? Dig deeper... ritual sacrifice may be better thing to google.
You're the one making the accusations, so you're the one who should provide the evidence.  Not mere innuendo based on your presumed background in the occult, and certainly not telling people to look up stuff on random internet sites.

By the way, since you brought up the subject of logic...if this occult Satanist group you were associated with really was into ritual sacrifice, then wouldn't it have been logical of you to turn them in to the relevant authorities?  Yet, somehow, you seem to have totally neglected mentioning that.

Offline xyzzy

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #353 on: January 03, 2014, 11:47:21 PM »
I'm gonna take a wild guess and say that Harbinger only posted the Angus post once, but that god posted the same one three more times. I'm almost convinced now.

As in proof of the existence of the holy trinity? :D
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You are in a maze of twisty little religions, all alike -- xyzzy

Offline Ivellios

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #354 on: January 04, 2014, 12:04:25 AM »
It would be nice if he were to snip the irrelevent parts of the post he was quoting. Easier to read and not having to scroll so much.

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #355 on: January 04, 2014, 12:12:59 AM »
It would be nice if he were to snip the irrelevent parts of the post he was quoting. Easier to read and not having to scroll so much.

I suspect that since he is used to quoting the bible, he thinks other quotes are supposed to be boring too.
Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Offline albeto

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #356 on: January 04, 2014, 12:17:39 AM »

I restated the general point that it would be counter productive to the desired end result as most commonly stated population control.
I don't know to what you are referring, but thanks for indulging my curiosity.

The statement assumes men wrote the bible it was not of God and the statement with following questions was directed to someone who holds these views... It's been a while back It may not have even been this thread.
No reason you can't offer reasoning though. Go for it.

So what was your question? Why would men create an offensive text if their intent was to convert people to their faith?

on a side note To link to questions unanswered would take some time. You hint at a double standard. other Christians and I are expected to answer even the silliest rhetorical question while almost all of our own go unanswered... part of the territory though I guess.
I think the default answer would be burden of proof.
Have you ever noticed this and if so why do suppose this happens?

I suspect most of this "nit-picking" is because when we communicate, we assume the vocabulary we bring to the conversation will contain roughly the same intellectual and emotional meaning for everyone. An example might be the use of the word "Christian." What does it mean to you? To me? To the OP of any given thread? To any poster? Each atheist brings to the conversation their own experiences, and that naturally raises particular questions others won't think of asking. Each comment inspires more questions (ie, A Christian is someone who doesn't sin, but stumbles - okay, but, well, what does "sin" mean now? How is that functionally different from stumbling?). Each post a theist offers is bound to attract a number of atheists, so already you're outnumbered with say, two or three responses to address for each comment you make. Each question asked is a single question, but for the person in the position of answering, that number of questions increases exponentially.

As far as why anyone is particularly unpleasant in his or her communication, I suspect that's a matter of personality. I think there are simply more aggressive and less aggressive people, and perhaps the more aggressive ones are more likely to respond (not aggressive in a mean way, but less passive - asks a question or makes a comment rather than keeping it to themselves). Perhaps some people are more emotionally invested in helping people recognize the damage and offensive nature of the religious belief they are supporting. Perhaps some people aren't interested in maintaining a level of diplomacy that will support the comfort zone of whoever offers to promote their religion. These can feel like being subjected to unfair demands, and no doubt there is some measure of that (I tend to ignore those posters as much as I can - don't feed the trolls, you know).

Ultimately, I think you might feel like you're at an unfair advantage simply because people on this forum are asking the kinds of questions you refuse to ask yourself.  If you, or anyone, is going to actively promote a hurtful, hateful, irrational, malevolent, volatile belief system, you'd better have some damn good reason.  "I feel it in my spirit" isn't a reason, even if it does satisfy the curiosity of the individual believer.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 02:08:20 AM by albeto »

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #357 on: January 04, 2014, 01:20:35 AM »
I may go so far as to say they don't understand salvation is a gift either.

No you may not go that far.

A gift is FREE, as in, you do nothing, and you get a gift.

If this were the case, everyone would have salvation, are you making this claim?
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Online wheels5894

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #358 on: January 04, 2014, 05:20:42 AM »
While answering Angus, do also say what is the basis for your answer - i.e. how do you know your answer is right.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline Ivellios

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #359 on: January 04, 2014, 07:16:59 AM »
I may go so far as to say they don't understand salvation is a gift either.

No you may not go that far.

A gift is FREE, as in, you do nothing, and you get a gift.

If this were the case, everyone would have salvation, are you making this claim?

Harbinger, I know to you it looks "free" but what Angus and Alexis is pointing out is that something linked with bribery and coercion, is not "free." Plus a lot of strings like rules, tithing, going to God Club, etc. I'll add also that it negates freewill.

If I were to offer you a candy bar for "free" but bribe you with a thousand dollars to take it, but if you don't I'll beat you up. The obvious answer is that you take it, right? Well, what's so bad about it, that I have to bribe and coerce you to take it?

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #360 on: January 04, 2014, 09:02:57 AM »
As others have pointed out, a gift has no strings attached.

For example, someone has a chocolate bar, he says "Here, take this, its a *gift*."

If he say that refusal will lead to punishment, it is not a gift, if he offers you something else as well, as to force you to take it, it is not a gift.

Thus "salvation" must be given to everyone to be considered a gift, or given to a few, which would imply an ass-hole god.

Or on the other hand, salvation could be considered a reward, or a bribe.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #361 on: January 04, 2014, 09:06:57 AM »
After much thought, I have decided that scientists must be, at least to a certain extend, afraid of God.

•   The Physicist will tell you of the conservation of energy, of vacuum energy, quantum physics,  and radio-active decay
•   The Astor-physicist will speak of warped space-time, tell you of an almost impossibly large universe of tremendous age, and how it started.
•   The Geologist will speak of the age of the rocks on earth and their movement, and reveal pre-history to us all
•   The Biologist will tell of the wonders of all life forms past and present and their evolution
•   The Chemist will describe the formation of molecules and their remarkable properties. Medical and industrial advance is their field.
•   The medical professionals will save you from death and disablement wherever they can and it is all based upon scientific knowledge.
•   The Archaeologist will work out what happened, where and when, and reveal old customs and lifestyles.
•   Anthropologists, Historians, Psychologists and Psychiatrists and Linguists will accurately describe the Ascent of Man, his behaviour patterns and limitations.
•   Engineers will use materials and calculate forces to give us the very best machines, structures, and everyday needs.

Each one will want to know more and more – each step discovered reveals more detail. Even though the sum of their knowledge is mind-bogglingly huge, they know they need to know more and keep on working – working for us.  They will share their knowledge and correct their mistakes: they will even tell you why they were wrong and why they are right. You will see if what they say is true: what is true wins, what is not is sent back for more research and improvement: ask for proof of anything – anything at all – and they will either give it to you or give you as much as they have and explain their hypothesis and point out what they need to be able to be more certain.

All this study to get there; all this work to discover the means to discover something; the understanding it gives to us all; the rationality that it brings to the universe, the understanding of and to our lives and the lives of others: each generation living an improved life over that of their ancestors.

Why should scientists fear anything? They do no more that tell us how, who, where, and when it is…

But… in the form of their mysterious and invisible deity, the priests and acolytes of the unseen enter and say,

All this is heresy; all this is lies; nobody knows everything except our gods – our gods explain all. Thousands of years ago, our gods told us all we need to know and what they told us is inerrant.

“Who can understand this? We ask these scientists so-called for proof, and proof of the proof, and proof of the proof of the proof, and proof of the….etc., and finally they cannot answer: It must therefore be wrong, for we know that the beginning of everything was magic. We do not need the proof that we ask of science, we have magic."


And so, every year, scientists must be afraid of the gods of ignorance and that one or other of the world’s shamans will gain enough publicity to appear on Fox & Friends, spread that ignorance and destroy, like the hoards of Genghis Khan, the potential of their hard won knowledge. Time will now have to be wasted taking horses to water and hoping a few will drink.

Imagine you are the only sane person in a lunatic asylum and then having your basic advice and knowledge dismissed by the inmates – Here is a reason for scientists to fear gods.



“Wandering in a vast forest at night, I have only a faint light to guide me. A stranger appears and says to me: 'My friend, you should blow out your candle in order to find your way more clearly.' This stranger is a theologian.”
-- Diderot, c1762

(Edit for a couple of typos)
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 01:35:43 PM by Graybeard »
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline harbinger77

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #362 on: January 04, 2014, 11:47:08 AM »
It would be nice if he were to snip the irrelevent parts of the post he was quoting. Easier to read and not having to scroll so much.

I suspect that since he is used to quoting the bible, he thinks other quotes are supposed to be boring too.

So often some people "quote" a snippet it allows for things to be out of their context. I prefer to keep the original post intact to at the least help prevent misrepresenting theother person's view.

Aside from that who are you to say something is irrelevant? Is scrolling such a hard thing?
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline harbinger77

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #363 on: January 04, 2014, 11:56:48 AM »
I direct you to may statement that I started in the occult meaning part of it. not a theoretical glance. This is more inside knowledge of the occult. the same as you can't know what 33rd degree masons believe with a simple google search. Dig deeper.

I further ask you to apply logic. Murder is illegal even if you claim freedom of religion right? Why would they advertise crimes or the intention of crimes? Dig deeper... ritual sacrifice may be better thing to google.
You're the one making the accusations, so you're the one who should provide the evidence.  Not mere innuendo based on your presumed background in the occult, and certainly not telling people to look up stuff on random internet sites.

By the way, since you brought up the subject of logic...if this occult Satanist group you were associated with really was into ritual sacrifice, then wouldn't it have been logical of you to turn them in to the relevant authorities?  Yet, somehow, you seem to have totally neglected mentioning that.

Not quite what I figured you would focus in on..

 Your logic is sound. I agree. The   problem is teaching something is legal. Discussing ideas is legal. I was never present nor do I have proof these things actually happened. It was the doctrine though.
I was never a member of a coven. Occult is a broad term. I was in circles who associated with other circles. Just as say a Baptist and a Presbyterian may sit and talk about world views. occult members do the same. If you want to look into this do it. If you don't want to believe this happens I can't convince you anyway. Why should I try?
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #364 on: January 04, 2014, 12:08:55 PM »
Harbinger, may you respond on the "gift" issue?

Failure will result in more -1's...
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline harbinger77

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #365 on: January 04, 2014, 12:15:11 PM »
I may go so far as to say they don't understand salvation is a gift either.

No you may not go that far.

A gift is FREE, as in, you do nothing, and you get a gift.

If this were the case, everyone would have salvation, are you making this claim?

Not at all. My claim is that salvation is free for the elect. Jesus laid down down his life for the sins of many... not all.

Matt. 26:28
for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for MANY for forgiveness of sins.
(all caps "many" is mine)
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline harbinger77

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #366 on: January 04, 2014, 12:23:35 PM »
I may go so far as to say they don't understand salvation is a gift either.

No you may not go that far.

A gift is FREE, as in, you do nothing, and you get a gift.

If this were the case, everyone would have salvation, are you making this claim?

Harbinger, I know to you it looks "free" but what Angus and Alexis is pointing out is that something linked with bribery and coercion, is not "free." Plus a lot of strings like rules, tithing, going to God Club, etc. I'll add also that it negates freewill.

If I were to offer you a candy bar for "free" but bribe you with a thousand dollars to take it, but if you don't I'll beat you up. The obvious answer is that you take it, right? Well, what's so bad about it, that I have to bribe and coerce you to take it?

one of what you mention as "rules" come from God. That's pure religion. The doctrines of man.
I agree with you. The problem is you are arguing outside of my theology.

Harbinger, may you respond on the "gift" issue?

Failure will result in more -1's...

If you happen to notice I started posting. Give it a minute. I respond in chronological  fassion.

Curious... Why should I fear your -1? Is this system some kind of reflection of respect?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 12:26:03 PM by harbinger77 »
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #367 on: January 04, 2014, 12:32:08 PM »
It would be nice if he were to snip the irrelevent parts of the post he was quoting. Easier to read and not having to scroll so much.

I suspect that since he is used to quoting the bible, he thinks other quotes are supposed to be boring too.

So often some people "quote" a snippet it allows for things to be out of their context. I prefer to keep the original post intact to at the least help prevent misrepresenting theother person's view.

Aside from that who are you to say something is irrelevant? Is scrolling such a hard thing?

In this post from you, you quoted and responded to Alex. Which was just fine:
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,25342.msg593074.html#msg593074

Then you did it again, with no changes:
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,25342.msg593075.html#msg593075

Then you repeated exactly the same post, but added a response to albedo here:
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,25342.msg593080.html#msg593080

So I gave you a hard time. Maybe I should have brought it to your attention in a different way, but at the present time you're not one of my ten favorite people, so I acted immorally or something.

I should almost apologize. I posted this while quoting a different post. Don't know why that happened. Maybe something similar happened to Harbinger.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 12:34:55 PM by ParkingPlaces »
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Online wheels5894

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #368 on: January 04, 2014, 12:32:56 PM »
I may go so far as to say they don't understand salvation is a gift either.

No you may not go that far.

A gift is FREE, as in, you do nothing, and you get a gift.

If this were the case, everyone would have salvation, are you making this claim?

Not at all. My claim is that salvation is free for the elect. Jesus laid down down his life for the sins of many... not all.

Matt. 26:28
for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for MANY for forgiveness of sins.
(all caps "many" is mine)

Excellent! We are getting somewhere. So, there's a list and if one's name is on the list one gets the gift and gifts are restricted to those on the list? Right? If so, where's this list and how do we get to find out if our name is on it? If, as I am assuming, we don't get to see it until after we die (if we see anything after we die) then how do you know you are on the list, Harbinger, and how do you know I am not?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 12:38:17 PM by wheels5894 »
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline harbinger77

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #369 on: January 04, 2014, 12:38:33 PM »
After much thought, I have decided that scientists must be, at least to a certain extend, afraid of God.

•   The Physicist will tell you of the conservation of energy, of vacuum energy, quantum physics,  and radio-active decay
•   The Astro-physicist will speak of warped space-time, tell you of an almost impossibly large universe of tremendous age, and how it started.
•   The Geologist will speak of the age of the rocks on earth and their movement, and reveal pre-history to us all
•   The Biologist will tell of the wonders of all life forms past and present and their evolution
•   The Chemist will describe the formation of molecules and their remarkable properties. Medical and industrial advance is their field.
•   The medical professionals will save you from death and disablement wherever they can and it is all based upon scientific knowledge.
•   The Archaeologist will work out what happened, where and when, and reveal old customs and lifestyles.
•   Anthropologists, Historians, Psychologists and Psychiatrists and Linguists will accurately describe the Ascent of Man, his behaviour patterns and limitations.
•   Engineers will use materials and calculate forces to give us the very best machines, structures, and everyday needs.

Each one will want to know more and more – each step discovered reveals more detail. Even though the sum of their knowledge is mind-bogglingly huge, they know they need to know more and keep on working – working for us.  They will share their knowledge and correct their mistakes: they will even tell you why they were wrong and why they are right. You will see if what they say is true: what is true wins, what is not is sent back for more research and improvement: ask for proof of anything – anything at all – and they will either give it to you or give you as much as they have and explain their hypothesis and point out what they need to be able to be more certain.

All this study to get there; all this work to discover the means to discover something; the understanding it gives to us all; the rationality that it brings to the universe, the understand of and to our lives and the lives of others: each generation living an improved life over that of their ancestors.

Why should scientists fear anything? They do no more that tell us how, who, where, how and when it is…

But… in the form of their mysterious and invisible deity, the priests and acolytes of the unseen enter and say,

“All this is heresy; all this is lies; nobody knows everything except our gods – our gods explain all. Thousands of years ago, our gods told us all we need to know and what they told us is inerrant.

“Who can understand this? We ask these scientists so-called for proof, and proof of the proof, and proof of the proof of the proof, and proof of the….etc., and finally they cannot answer: It must therefore be wrong, for we know that the beginning of everything was magic. We do not need the proof that we ask of science, we have magic.


And so, every year, scientists must be afraid of the gods of ignorance and that one or other of the world’s shamans will gain enough publicity to appear on Fox & Friends, spread that ignorance and destroy, like the hoards of Genghis Khan, the potential of their hard won knowledge. Time will now have to be wasted taking horses to water and hoping a few will drink.

Imagine you are the only sane person in a lunatic asylum and then having your basic advice and knowledge dismissed by the inmates – Here is a reason for scientists to fear gods.



“Wandering in a vast forest at night, I have only a faint light to guide me. A stranger appears and says to me: 'My friend, you should blow out your candle in order to find your way more clearly.' This stranger is a theologian.”
-- Diderot, c1762


Bravo sir!
Although our reasoning differs I enjoyed this post for reasons I'm sure you would disagree with.
 I can tell you put a lot of thought into this.

I have one question though. Are you proposing the scientific method can answer all questions?
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #370 on: January 04, 2014, 12:48:35 PM »
Curious... Why should I fear your -1? Is this system some kind of reflection of respect?

The -1 symbolizes that you made stupid decisions, you don't want to be stupid, do you? ;D

Not at all. My claim is that salvation is free for the elect. Jesus laid down down his life for the sins of many... not all.

If he laid down his sins for many and not all, his laying down of sins is not a gift, it is a reward for the people doing something in particular, (that, or god is a dick who does not like some people for no reason). I might even claim that if it were true, it could be compared to a bribe.
It also implies that Jesus was partial, a flaw that no all loving being should have.

Matt. 26:28
for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for MANY for forgiveness of sins.
(all caps "many" is mine)

Quote from: ? H.G. Wells, The War of the Worlds
“In the next place, wonderful as it seems in a sexual world, the Martians were absolutely without sex, and therefore without any of the tumultuous emotions that arise...

Well what do you know, aliens don't have sex.


Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline harbinger77

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #371 on: January 04, 2014, 12:54:06 PM »
I may go so far as to say they don't understand salvation is a gift either.

No you may not go that far.

A gift is FREE, as in, you do nothing, and you get a gift.

If this were the case, everyone would have salvation, are you making this claim?

Not at all. My claim is that salvation is free for the elect. Jesus laid down down his life for the sins of many... not all.

Matt. 26:28
for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for MANY for forgiveness of sins.
(all caps "many" is mine)

Excellent! We are getting somewhere. So, there's a list and if one's name is on the list one gets the gift and gifts are restricted to those on the list? Right? If so, where's this list and how do we get to find out if our name is on it? If, as I am assuming, we don't get to see it until after we die (if we see anything after we die) then how do you know you are on the list, Harbinger, and how do you know I am not?

If you read revelation closely you will see there are 3 books. the one you reference is the Lambs book of Life.
How do you know you are not "on the list?" I have no clue who is on it. I have been saved. The evidence is in the book.

How do I know I am?
As a friend told me just this morning "I can see how you have done a full 180. You are opposite of who you once were." My boss once said, "I don't want to say you had a roadto   demascus experience, but.... dude....wow!" This was no choice of my own. it just happened. That's evidence of salvation that people who know me don't reject. Even my sister who is an EX- I believe you would have called her a weak athiest...
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline harbinger77

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #372 on: January 04, 2014, 01:04:39 PM »
Curious... Why should I fear your -1? Is this system some kind of reflection of respect?

The -1 symbolizes that you made stupid decisions, you don't want to be stupid, do you? ;D

Not at all. My claim is that salvation is free for the elect. Jesus laid down down his life for the sins of many... not all.

If he laid down his sins for many and not all, his laying down of sins is not a gift, it is a reward for the people doing something in particular, (that, or god is a dick who does not like some people for no reason). I might even claim that if it were true, it could be compared to a bribe.
It also implies that Jesus was partial, a flaw that no all loving being should have.

Matt. 26:28
for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for MANY for forgiveness of sins.
(all caps "many" is mine)

Quote from: ? H.G. Wells, The War of the Worlds
“In the next place, wonderful as it seems in a sexual world, the Martians were absolutely without sex, and therefore without any of the tumultuous emotions that arise...

Well what do you know, aliens don't have sex.

While your point in doing so is not lost on me, my scripture quote was relevant to my post. the H.G.Wells thing was just misplaced.

That being said let me try the candy bar thing...
If I had laid down my money (the blood/life of christ) for a candy bar and decided to give it to you just cause I wanted to (in my own good will) would it not be a gift?

EDIT:
Not sure if you meant it but I wanted to point out Jesus lead a sinless life. He laid down His life, not his sin.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2014, 01:11:52 PM by harbinger77 »
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #373 on: January 04, 2014, 01:10:35 PM »
While your point in doing so is not lost on me, my scripture quote was relevant to my post. the H.G.Wells thing was just misplaced.

Each time you post a fictional text, i post a quote from The war of the worlds. a fictional text i quite like.


That being said let me try the candy bar thing...
If I had laid down my money (the blood/life of christ) for a candy bar and decided to give it to you just cause I wanted to (in my own good will) would it not be a gift?

Yes, that would be a gift.
Now imagine there are several hundred thousand people, and you are an all good omnipotent being.
You cannot give a gift to only a few, because otherwise you are not all good, thus you must be handing out rewards or bribes.

Choose your pick.

Edit: realized that an all good being would not hand out rewards or bribes...This is a pickle.
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline harbinger77

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #374 on: January 04, 2014, 01:15:48 PM »
While your point in doing so is not lost on me, my scripture quote was relevant to my post. the H.G.Wells thing was just misplaced.

Each time you post a fictional text, i post a quote from The war of the worlds. a fictional text i quite like.


That being said let me try the candy bar thing...
If I had laid down my money (the blood/life of christ) for a candy bar and decided to give it to you just cause I wanted to (in my own good will) would it not be a gift?

Yes, that would be a gift.
Now imagine there are several hundred thousand people, and you are an all good omnipotent being.
You cannot give a gift to only a few, because otherwise you are not all good, thus you must be handing out rewards or bribes.

Choose your pick.

Edit: realized that an all good being would not hand out rewards or bribes...This is a pickle.

I suppose there's no way to make it relevant to your post though is there?

Is your position that you must earn the gift then as suggested by reward or bribe?
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #375 on: January 04, 2014, 01:20:13 PM »
My claim is that salvation is free for the elect. Jesus laid down down his life for the sins of many... not all.

And you have some peer reviewed papers published in learned and respected journals to substantiate this claim?

There have been repeatable experiments to demonstrate exactly what you say? Or does there remain controversy?

You have interviewed the dead and, in view of what they have said, all has been shown to be in accordance with Matt. 26:28?

Or, is the claim, empty and baseless?
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline harbinger77

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Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #376 on: January 04, 2014, 01:22:36 PM »
My claim is that salvation is free for the elect. Jesus laid down down his life for the sins of many... not all.

And you have some peer reviewed papers published in learned and respected journals to substantiate this claim?

There have been repeatable experiments to demonstrate exactly what you say? Or does there remain controversy?

You have interviewed the dead and, in view of what they have said, all has been shown to be in accordance with Matt. 26:28?

Or, is the claim, empty and baseless?

you didn't answer the question I asked you... Answer that and then we may proceed to these questions.
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project