Author Topic: Why are scientists afraid of god?  (Read 21137 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jag

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1802
  • Darwins +191/-7
  • Gender: Female
  • Official WWGHA Harpy, Ex-rosary squad
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #145 on: December 14, 2013, 09:29:34 PM »
I deem the question as both spiteful and patronizing. I ignored it. So no, it was never answered.

Is this what we should expect from you if we question your statements? Because that's going to make discussion rather difficult.
"It's hard to, but I'm starting to believe some of you actually believe these things.  That is completely beyond my ability to understand if that is really the case, but things never cease to amaze me."

Offline Antidote

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 484
  • Darwins +19/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • >.>
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #146 on: December 14, 2013, 11:12:42 PM »
I deem the question as both spiteful and patronizing. I ignored it. So no, it was never answered.

How is asking for you to provide the name of the doctor spiteful and patronizing? It's a standard question.
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

---

Do not assume I was religious in any way, I have never been religious.

Offline Hatter23

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3896
  • Darwins +259/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • Doesn't believe in one more god than you
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #147 on: December 14, 2013, 11:34:55 PM »


I deem the question as both spiteful and patronizing. I ignored it. So no, it was never answered.

And an archeologist found the bones of Jesus and records that the newtestament was a prank. However, if you ask me the name of said archeologist I will find that spiteful and patronizing and will ignore it.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline RED_ApeTHEIST

  • Student
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Darwins +16/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Hyperintelligent Orangutan
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #148 on: December 15, 2013, 02:23:48 AM »
I was personally healed of GERD. My wife was healed of a Life threatning heart condition. Both of these were conditions that should have required surgery to repair. The before condition is documented for both of us. My Wife's after condition is documented by a heart specialist. There was NO treatment of any kind for either condition. Yet praise God, it's gone!
This may be the best I can do for some dude online though.

That sounds amazing. What was the name of this heart specialist? I would like to keep an eye out for the award winning paper he will write about the first ever documented, verifiable miracle.

Did I overlook the reply to this, or has there not been one yet?

I deem the question as both spiteful and patronizing. I ignored it. So no, it was never answered.

That question would only be spiteful and patronizing if the person who asked it knew that you could not answer. I don't have any way of knowing whether or not you can answer it. I suspected that you were feeding us a line and can not provide the name of any  specialist, but I wasn't certain.

Now you have a choice. Either provide the name of the specialist and some form of verification of your story, or dodge the request and prove that you are lying. Remember the fact that this was documented by a specialist was Your claim. Will you stand by it?
The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchet

Offline pianodwarf

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 4367
  • Darwins +208/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Je bois ton lait frappé
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #149 on: December 15, 2013, 06:24:44 AM »
I was personally healed of GERD. My wife was healed of a Life threatning heart condition. Both of these were conditions that should have required surgery to repair. The before condition is documented for both of us. My Wife's after condition is documented by a heart specialist. There was NO treatment of any kind for either condition. Yet praise God, it's gone!
This may be the best I can do for some dude online though.

That sounds amazing. What was the name of this heart specialist? I would like to keep an eye out for the award winning paper he will write about the first ever documented, verifiable miracle.

Did I overlook the reply to this, or has there not been one yet?

I deem the question as both spiteful and patronizing. I ignored it. So no, it was never answered.

OK, in that case, let me try.

Harbinger77, your stories about GERD and the heart condition are quite remarkable and unlike anything I have ever heard of in the field, though I admit to not being a medical professional.  I would like to hear more details about them, both for my own edification and to review with other medical professionals for second opinions.  Please tell me the names of the doctors involved so I can talk to them.  (Of course, you will need to provide them with permission to discuss your cases with me due to confidentiality laws; I'll discuss that with the doctors first, as I'm sure they will insist I do.)

I understand you may be disgruntled at being challenged on such matters, but you need to understand that you are making a rather extraordinary claim, and atheists tend to be skeptical about claims of the miraculous.  If you refuse to back up these claims with any kind of evidence that skeptics can review, you should be prepared to have your claims rejected.  Please understand it is nothing personal.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline harbinger77

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +0/-15
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #150 on: December 15, 2013, 05:48:09 PM »
I deem the question as both spiteful and patronizing. I ignored it. So no, it was never answered.

So you're not going to name the heart specialist, thus denying us the ability to verify your story?

So it's just a matter whenever we believe your words?  Funny how that works.

If I told you the Dr's name what good would it do? How exactly would you verify the story? We have not given permission to release the records. If you called Her she wouldn't tell you about it. I assume there will be no written paper publish w/o our knowledge either. Why should she even write a paper? There was no medical break through to pass on to help others. What is there to report? Would you believe it anyway?

 I know of a few cases in my own church alone where people were healed, and NOT treated in any way. There have been no papers written. I don't know why. Again, would you believe it anyway??

 I don't care if you all like me nor is there some other motive. I certainly don't think this story will melt your heart and you may "give your life to Christ." or something. This was just an answer to one of the questions on this site. The real question is for what logical reason would I dishonor God (even if I am deluded He's real to me) by telling you a lie??

Her condition was heart valve disease...
more exactly
Mitral regurgitation AND
tricuspid regurgitation
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6766
  • Darwins +904/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #151 on: December 15, 2013, 06:10:55 PM »
The purpose, well, one purpose of publishing the information would be to have a documented case of possible supernatural healing. Which, thus far, the world does not have.

As you say, harbinger, the healing is not replicable, so has no medical value. But if there was indeed a serious medical condition that was healed without treatment, it should be documented and studied.

Because trying to figure out if supernatural forces really exist and affect people in some way is a scientific question that we are all interested in. Not to mention the fact that it would provide evidence that your religious beliefs have some truth value, something we also don't have.

Gathering knowledge is always useful, even when you can't sell it or make people happy with it.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline pianodwarf

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 4367
  • Darwins +208/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Je bois ton lait frappé
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #152 on: December 15, 2013, 06:20:06 PM »
Harbinger, please do not make claims if you cannot or will not back them up.  Apart from the fact that it's a complete waste of time, it's also against the forum rules.  Thank you.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Aaron123

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2755
  • Darwins +77/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #153 on: December 15, 2013, 06:37:25 PM »
If I told you the Dr's name what good would it do? How exactly would you verify the story? We have not given permission to release the records. If you called Her she wouldn't tell you about it. I assume there will be no written paper publish w/o our knowledge either. Why should she even write a paper? There was no medical break through to pass on to help others. What is there to report? Would you believe it anyway?

 I know of a few cases in my own church alone where people were healed, and NOT treated in any way. There have been no papers written. I don't know why. Again, would you believe it anyway??

 I don't care if you all like me nor is there some other motive. I certainly don't think this story will melt your heart and you may "give your life to Christ." or something. This was just an answer to one of the questions on this site. The real question is for what logical reason would I dishonor God (even if I am deluded He's real to me) by telling you a lie??

Her condition was heart valve disease...
more exactly
Mitral regurgitation AND
tricuspid regurgitation

All of your excuses sounds just like that; excuses.  If we could have confirmation of the story, we could at least acknowledge that the gist of it was true, even if we didn't agree on the supernatural part.  But we're not even getting that.  Without any means of verifying your story, why should I assume it to be true?  After all, anyone can claim they had a supernatural healing.  All they have to do is type the words.  I can do it too.

"I had an ulcer, but my doctor, with the help of the Invisible Pink Unicorn, cured me!"

See how easy that is?

It's not a good idea to go around believing in any old thing people say.  There has to be some means of verifying things.  Usually, we get that.  Yet, when it comes to the supernatural, we never get that.  Why not break the cycle and provide the means for verification?  If you're concerned that we won't buy it, that should get you thinking.  After all, the supernatural has had thousands of years to provide healings.  Healings that should be well documented, undisputed, with no questions that they ever occurred.  Healings that should be well studied by the scientific community.  Yet, we get none of that.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline jdawg70

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2149
  • Darwins +389/-8
  • Ex-rosary squad
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #154 on: December 16, 2013, 01:38:21 PM »
If I told you the Dr's name what good would it do? How exactly would you verify the story? We have not given permission to release the records. If you called Her she wouldn't tell you about it. I assume there will be no written paper publish w/o our knowledge either. Why should she even write a paper? There was no medical break through to pass on to help others. What is there to report? Would you believe it anyway?

 I know of a few cases in my own church alone where people were healed, and NOT treated in any way. There have been no papers written. I don't know why. Again, would you believe it anyway??

 I don't care if you all like me nor is there some other motive. I certainly don't think this story will melt your heart and you may "give your life to Christ." or something. This was just an answer to one of the questions on this site. The real question is for what logical reason would I dishonor God (even if I am deluded He's real to me) by telling you a lie??

Her condition was heart valve disease...
more exactly
Mitral regurgitation AND
tricuspid regurgitation
Providing the relevant information may or may not be persuasive.  That depends on the nature of the information and data.

Refusal to provide the relevant information, however, is often very telling.

Don't worry about what's in my perpetual motion machine - trust me, it works.  Don't worry about what the composition is of my snake oil - trust me, it will heal you.  Don't worry about itemized line items - trust me, your government is using your tax dollars the way they should be used.

I do have fantastic powers.  Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline Tero

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 726
  • Darwins +18/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #155 on: December 16, 2013, 03:04:48 PM »
Us scientists have broken god antennas. No reception.

Offline Astreja

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3021
  • Darwins +267/-3
  • Gender: Female
  • Agnostic goddess with Clue-by-Four™
    • The Springy Goddess
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #156 on: December 17, 2013, 01:25:47 AM »
Did a quick literature search on mitral valve regurgitation.  Among its symptoms are shortness of breath, fatigue, heart palpitations, and fluid build-up.  It's often discovered when a heart murmur is heard, or is seen on an echocardiogram.  There are numerous causes, including certain medications, uncontrolled high blood pressure, aging, and various infections including rheumatic fever and myocarditis.

Severe mitral valve regurgitation may require valve surgery, but milder cases often respond to blood pressure medications (including diuretics and ACE inhibitors), a low-sodium diet, weight loss, cutting out alcohol, cigarettes and caffeine, exercising, and generally having a healthy lifestyle.

MVR is most concerning if the patient has other heart conditions such as a previous heart attack or irregular heart rhythm, but many cases require only lifestyle adjustments.

Because rheumatic fever can damage the mitral valve, it's important to promptly treat Streptococcus infections such as Strep throat.

Disclaimer:  I am not a doctor, but I do work in the medical field.
Reality Checkroom — Not Responsible for Lost Articles

Offline Angus and Alexis

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1487
  • Darwins +71/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • Residential Tulpamancer.
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #157 on: December 17, 2013, 01:36:30 AM »
Severe mitral valve regurgitation may require valve surgery, but milder cases often respond to blood pressure medications (including diuretics and ACE inhibitors), a low-sodium diet, weight loss, cutting out alcohol, cigarettes and caffeine, exercising, and generally having a healthy lifestyle.

In other words, this "impossible to cure" disease....can be cured by simply being healthy.

9_6
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline jtk73

  • Undergraduate
  • ***
  • Posts: 155
  • Darwins +13/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #158 on: December 17, 2013, 01:12:45 PM »
He won't ask for your worship. He is God and you just will worship Him.

So Yahweh wants mindless puppets. Got it.

Offline G-Roll

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 386
  • Darwins +43/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #159 on: December 17, 2013, 02:02:13 PM »
He won't ask for your worship. He is God and you just will worship Him.

So Yahweh wants mindless puppets. Got it.

19 And all the people said to Samuel, “Pray for your servants to the Lord your God, that we may not die, for we have added to all our sins this evil, to ask for ourselves a king.” 20 And Samuel said to the people, “Do not be afraid; you have done all this evil. Yet do not turn aside from following the Lord, but serve the Lord with all your heart. 21 And do not turn aside after empty things that cannot profit or deliver, for they are empty. 22 For the Lord will not forsake his people, for his great name's sake, because it has pleased the Lord to make you a people for himself. 23 Moreover, as for me, far be it from me that I should sin against the Lord by ceasing to pray for you, and I will instruct you in the good and the right way. 24 Only fear the Lord and serve him faithfully with all your heart. For consider what great things he has done for you. 25 But if you still do wickedly, you shall be swept away, both you and your king.”
1 Samuel 12

Offline harbinger77

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +0/-15
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #160 on: December 18, 2013, 02:40:38 AM »
Did a quick literature search on mitral valve regurgitation.  Among its symptoms are shortness of breath, fatigue, heart palpitations, and fluid build-up.  It's often discovered when a heart murmur is heard, or is seen on an echocardiogram.  There are numerous causes, including certain medications, uncontrolled high blood pressure, aging, and various infections including rheumatic fever and myocarditis.

Severe mitral valve regurgitation may require valve surgery, but milder cases often respond to blood pressure medications (including diuretics and ACE inhibitors), a low-sodium diet, weight loss, cutting out alcohol, cigarettes and caffeine, exercising, and generally having a healthy lifestyle.

MVR is most concerning if the patient has other heart conditions such as a previous heart attack or irregular heart rhythm, but many cases require only lifestyle adjustments.

Because rheumatic fever can damage the mitral valve, it's important to promptly treat Streptococcus infections such as Strep throat.

Disclaimer:  I am not a doctor, but I do work in the medical field.

I notice 2 things here:
#1 You only researched, or at least posted, one of the two conditions. You ignored the worst one. was that willful? Would tricuspid regurgitation not be an "other heart condition?"

The Dr did talk to my wife about her smoking. Standard Dr stuff. In fact it was the whole pep talk I mentioned. She did try to quit too. She lasted about a day. I suppose that was the total of her "lifestyle change." We don't exercise, we smoke, we eat fried salty foods and we both love our morning coffee. She even supplements with stacker3. She has no weight to loose. we hadn't drank in at least a year before she was diagnosed. We live a generally unhealthy, yet sober, lifestyle.

#2 Of all that responded to this post not a single one has addressed this question.
For what logical reason would I dishonor God (even if I am deluded, He's real to me) by telling you a lie?? Why would I endanger my own salvation for a cool story?
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline RED_ApeTHEIST

  • Student
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Darwins +16/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Hyperintelligent Orangutan
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #161 on: December 18, 2013, 09:24:26 AM »
#2 Of all that responded to this post not a single one has addressed this question.
For what logical reason would I dishonor God (even if I am deluded, He's real to me) by telling you a lie?? Why would I endanger my own salvation for a cool story?

Your running on a few assumptions here.

1: You assume that others know that lying will endanger your salvation. Different people follow Christianity differently and lying is more taboo for some than for others

2: You assume others  think you are purposefully lying. I, personally, am of the opinion you are merely incorrect.

3: You assume that everyone here is operating under the assumption that you are a rational actor. People often act irrationally, so you cant use rationality as a perfect predictor of their actions.


Also, I'd like to note that providing that doctor's name or some other proof beyond your word would put the axe to this line of inquiry very quickly.
The relevant equation is: Knowledge = power = energy = matter = mass; a good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read." - Terry Pratchet

Offline wheels5894

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2580
  • Darwins +110/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #162 on: December 18, 2013, 10:14:09 AM »
Well, I think it should be up to Harbinger to tell what he feels happy telling us. Medical records are personal things after all as is his anonymity (and that of the rest of us.) However -

1. Harbinger appears to be right on the cusp of a convincing proof of the existence of his god. For cure to serious heart disease to happen miraculously  is much more significant that a cancer disappearing (because there are natural remissions). Producing the evidence for this would be very strong evidence for belief.

2. In principle at least, Harbinger may have a way to help people get cured in this way - through prayer and faith. If this is the case, and we need to find out more first, Harbinger, by not publishing this remarkable cure is denying such a cure to others - maybe many others - who will die early as a result.

On the other hand, it is safer to make a claim and keep quiet. Actually, I find it interesting that, despite pep talks, Harbinger and his wife are not eating a healthy diet. After all, their god might not be so kind another time if they wreck their own bodies with salt and a lack of veg and fruit.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline Angus and Alexis

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1487
  • Darwins +71/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • Residential Tulpamancer.
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #163 on: December 18, 2013, 10:31:31 AM »
#2 Of all that responded to this post not a single one has addressed this question.
For what logical reason would I dishonor God (even if I am deluded, He's real to me) by telling you a lie?? Why would I endanger my own salvation for a cool story?

Christians, other theists, even atheists go around lying all the time.

Some more so than others *cough* theists *cough*.

Unless you have some form of documentation, no one will believe you here, unless its something really trivial, like "I ate a cake".

The Dr did talk to my wife about her smoking. Standard Dr stuff. In fact it was the whole pep talk I mentioned. She did try to quit too. She lasted about a day. I suppose that was the total of her "lifestyle change." We don't exercise, we smoke, we eat fried salty foods and we both love our morning coffee. She even supplements with stacker3. She has no weight to loose. we hadn't drank in at least a year before she was diagnosed. We live a generally unhealthy, yet sober, lifestyle.

Jesus Christ, not to be rude, but get off your ass, eat some fruit/veg, and run around the city for a few hours! (i must commend the lack of alcohol though *applause*)

Harbinger, please understand that "miracle healing from a disease" is not very miraculous...

People around the world survive from amazing damage, from being almost cut in half, to having drills lodged in their skull.

Do not dare try to say you were magically healed by some omnipotent being, when people around the world are dying from almost anything, malaria, starvation, terrorism, snakes, blunt trauma, stomach ulcers, etc.
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline wheels5894

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2580
  • Darwins +110/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #164 on: December 18, 2013, 10:34:37 AM »

Harbinger, please understand that "miracle healing from a disease" is not very miraculous...

People around the world survive from amazing damage, from being almost cut in half, to having drills lodged in their skull.

Do not dare try to say you were magically healed by some omnipotent being, when people around the world are dying from almost anything, malaria, starvation, terrorism, snakes, blunt trauma, stomach ulcers, etc.

Yet even Jesus appears to have been rather limited in healing people and only treated a very few. Maybe god only rewards some people with a healing - the one's whose worship he likes. Other who don't do so well, or who worship another god just have to put up.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline Angus and Alexis

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1487
  • Darwins +71/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • Residential Tulpamancer.
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #165 on: December 18, 2013, 10:37:04 AM »
If that were true, god would not be all loving...
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline wheels5894

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2580
  • Darwins +110/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #166 on: December 18, 2013, 10:51:28 AM »
If that were true, god would not be all loving...

... or perhaps not all-powerful. Maybe he in't powerful enough to cure everyone who needs acure so only a few get one...
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline Angus and Alexis

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1487
  • Darwins +71/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • Residential Tulpamancer.
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #167 on: December 18, 2013, 10:58:06 AM »
Or that.

Which would raise the question on just how "powerful" god is.

Or, being that god can apparently make the universe, but not cure diseases, perhaps he can only make stuff, and not fix is XD.
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline wheels5894

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2580
  • Darwins +110/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #168 on: December 18, 2013, 11:05:19 AM »
Well this raises the old Epicurius dilemma! It seems to me that the 3 omni god ought to be able to heal, ought to want to heal and have the power to heal. If any of those are missing, well.... what do you call him?

I'd say,.... IMAGINARY!
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline Astreja

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3021
  • Darwins +267/-3
  • Gender: Female
  • Agnostic goddess with Clue-by-Four™
    • The Springy Goddess
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #169 on: December 18, 2013, 11:11:31 AM »
I notice 2 things here:
#1 You only researched, or at least posted, one of the two conditions. You ignored the worst one. was that willful? Would tricuspid regurgitation not be an "other heart condition?"
It was not wilful; it was an oversight on My part.  My apologies for not addressing both at the same time.

They are both valvular conditions, and there are many similarities in the treatment.  The tricuspid regurgitation also responds to diuretics, but these have to be used judiciously to avoid volume depletion.  The problem is "driven" by the right side of the heart, and has many of the same causes and remedies, including lifestyle improvement.  Mild cases usually don't require treatment.  The caveat with this one is to be on the lookout for a liver tie-in, as it often coexists with ascites and other severe complications of cirrhosis.

The bottom line here is that it does not appear that anything overwhelmingly miraculous happened.  I rather think you should be thanking the medical profession at least as much as you thank your god, as mortals have to work much harder to do the work of omnipotent beings.
Reality Checkroom — Not Responsible for Lost Articles

Offline jdawg70

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2149
  • Darwins +389/-8
  • Ex-rosary squad
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #170 on: December 18, 2013, 11:13:57 AM »
Well this raises the old Epicurius dilemma! It seems to me that the 3 omni god ought to be able to heal, ought to want to heal and have the power to heal. If any of those are missing, well.... what do you call him?

I'd say,.... IMAGINARY!
Bah.  This is easily addressed.  You might want to put a helmet on so that it doesn't make a mess when I blow your mind:

MYSTERIOUS WAYS
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline wheels5894

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2580
  • Darwins +110/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #171 on: December 18, 2013, 11:16:38 AM »
Well this raises the old Epicurius dilemma! It seems to me that the 3 omni god ought to be able to heal, ought to want to heal and have the power to heal. If any of those are missing, well.... what do you call him?

I'd say,.... IMAGINARY!
Bah.  This is easily addressed.  You might want to put a helmet on so that it doesn't make a mess when I blow your mind:

MYSTERIOUS WAYS

AAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline SevenPatch

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 705
  • Darwins +108/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • A source will help me understand.
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #172 on: December 18, 2013, 11:17:13 AM »
#2 Of all that responded to this post not a single one has addressed this question.
For what logical reason would I dishonor God (even if I am deluded, He's real to me) by telling you a lie?? Why would I endanger my own salvation for a cool story?

As others have stated, we don't think you are knowingly lying to us (well I can't speak for others but at least I don't).  It's more likely that you are lying to yourself and you believe the lie completely and faithfully.  The lie is warm and comfortable, like being snuggled in a blanket in front of the fireplace on a cold snowy night.

Your position is one of arrogance.  Why do you deserve this miracle and other good decent more deserving people don't receive the same miracle?

Don't worry, give up the blanket and come outside.  It's not actually cold or snowing.

« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 11:19:05 AM by SevenPatch »
"Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride - SHUT HIM UP! Look at my furrows of worry! Look at my big bank account, and my family! This just HAS to be real!" - Bill Hicks

Offline Angus and Alexis

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1487
  • Darwins +71/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • Residential Tulpamancer.
Re: Why are scientists afraid of god?
« Reply #173 on: December 18, 2013, 11:17:52 AM »
MYSTERIOUS WAYS

MY BRAIN....BLLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGG
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.