Author Topic: militarized police state  (Read 2626 times)

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Offline Chronos

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2014, 07:53:40 PM »
Of course.

They can never admit they were wrong.

Just like the guy in New Mexico that they gave a two cavity searches, an x-ray and a colonoscopy that turned up nothing but they still insisted he had drugs on him.
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Offline Chronos

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #59 on: February 27, 2014, 10:09:10 AM »
The video of the guy killed when 5 police offers sat on him:

http://www.examiner.com/article/luis-rodriguez-dies-man-restrained-by-5-cops-is-dead-video-of-restraint

That video is good for the public but not good for the police.  He was already handcuffed and they were still sitting on him. They had reason to believe he was not well and they were still sitting on him.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #60 on: February 27, 2014, 11:10:41 AM »
Not really a militarized police article so much as it is a "Stupid police" article.

Quote
Annapolis Police Chief Michael A. Pristoop thought he came prepared when he testified before a Maryland state Senate panel on Tuesday about the perils of legalizing marijuana.

In researching his testimony against two bills before the Judicial Proceedings Committee, Pristoop said, he had found a news article to illustrate the risks of legalization: 37 people in Colorado, he said, had died of marijuana oversdoses on the very day that the state legalized pot.

...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/like-wow-police-chief-is-hoaxed-on-pot-perils/2014/02/25/42bd0592-9e94-11e3-9ba6-800d1192d08b_story.html

He read an article on The Daily Currant and did not know it was a satire site.
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #61 on: February 27, 2014, 11:26:13 AM »
Yep. When people can't tell the difference between reality and satire, they're doing something wrong.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline screwtape

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #62 on: February 27, 2014, 11:33:42 AM »
It is a tribute to his investigative skills.

Plus, he should be aware that no one in the history of the world has died of a marijuana overdose.  He should have thought about his own experience and realized he's never come across it.  And that should have raised red flags and caused him to question what he was reading.  Instead, confirmation bias took over.  He was only looking for something to support his conclusion that pot was bad and should stay illegal.  When he read the article the only thing he thought was "Yessssss!  I win!"

And now he looks like a joke.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #63 on: February 27, 2014, 01:58:09 PM »
The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has been doing great work tracking an ATF sting operation aptly named "Backfire". 
http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/backfire-190528221.html

Among the problems reported are Agents losing guns, agents using a brain damaged man to help set up gun and drug buys, agents damaging a rented store to the tune of $15,000, and getting almost nothing of significant value out of the operation.  They are being investigated by the DOJ.  Hopefully some of the ATF people will be fired.  It'd be better if they were jailed as well.

Dozens of articles at that link.
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Offline Chronos

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #64 on: February 27, 2014, 02:17:50 PM »
Quote
Annapolis Police Chief Michael A. Pristoop thought he came prepared when he testified before a Maryland state Senate panel on Tuesday about the perils of legalizing marijuana.

In researching his testimony against two bills before the Judicial Proceedings Committee, Pristoop said, he had found a news article to illustrate the risks of legalization: 37 people in Colorado, he said, had died of marijuana oversdoses on the very day that the state legalized pot.

In our capital city ... this is embarrassing.


The police have been trained for so long to think that every substance is evil and deadly that they go berzerk when they have a hint of one being around and cling to anything that justifies their berzerk-ness.



John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline Dante

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #65 on: February 27, 2014, 02:26:46 PM »
The police have been trained for so long to think that every substance is evil and deadly

You may be right, of course, but I'd be willing to wager that it's more about numbers. Pot smokers in particular, and other druggies in general, are fairly easy targets they can go after. The Popo can then beat their chests and say "Look at how many dangerous criminals I've taken off the streets! But to keep fighting these scumbags, I'll need a raise and the Department will need more pulic money to keep these villianous criminals out of our fair city!"
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Online nogodsforme

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #66 on: February 27, 2014, 03:45:57 PM »
It is a tribute to his investigative skills.

Plus, he should be aware that no one in the history of the world has died of a marijuana overdose.  He should have thought about his own experience and realized he's never come across it.  And that should have raised red flags and caused him to question what he was reading.  Instead, confirmation bias took over.  He was only looking for something to support his conclusion that pot was bad and should stay illegal.  When he read the article the only thing he thought was "Yessssss!  I win!"

And now he looks like a joke.

I have never smoked pot in my life, and even I know it won't kill you in an overdose.

People have died from drinking too much alcohol at once--like at fraternity binge parties. People have died when they smoked dope laced with something more dangerous, like PCP, IIRC. I imagine that people have probably died from smoking too many cigarettes at once, because nicotine is a poison. And many people have died of brain damages from sniffing paint and glue.

But smoking marijuana by itself? It's not completely harmless, but it has to be among the safest ways to get high. It's not like heroin or cocaine where it attacks your brain and heart. I am not sure you could overdose on pot-- wouldn't you just get really high and then go to sleep?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline One Above All

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #67 on: February 27, 2014, 03:49:21 PM »
I have never smoked pot in my life, and even I know it won't kill you in an overdose.
<snip>

I recall reading on a website that marijuana cannot kill by overdose simply because it's physically impossible to ingest and/or smoke enough of it to kill you. This isn't the website, but the principle is the same: http://www.theweedblog.com/how-much-marijuana-does-it-take-for-someone-to-overdose/
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Offline Nam

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #68 on: February 27, 2014, 03:51:43 PM »
No, but it can make you vomit out of your ass. True story. Laughed my ass off. I was high.

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Offline Chronos

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #69 on: February 27, 2014, 05:41:34 PM »
You may be right, of course, but I'd be willing to wager that it's more about numbers. Pot smokers in particular, and other druggies in general, are fairly easy targets they can go after. The Popo can then beat their chests and say "Look at how many dangerous criminals I've taken off the streets! But to keep fighting these scumbags, I'll need a raise and the Department will need more pulic money to keep these villianous criminals out of our fair city!"

To a degree you are correct. Pot growers and pot smokers are low-hanging fruit. You aren't like to get shot at, freaked out, punctured with an HIV-filled needle or deal with someone who hasn't bathed for weeks. My brother and his police brethren used to take pics of the helicopter jobs where they would search for growers and then up close pics of the plants/harvest they confiscated.

It's an easier job.
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Offline Nam

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #70 on: February 27, 2014, 05:44:36 PM »
Pot smokers never go hungry. That's the only downside, really.

That and flying pigs[1].


-Nam
 1. long story
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline screwtape

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #71 on: February 28, 2014, 08:39:30 AM »
I am not sure you could overdose on pot--

maybe if a 300 lb bale of it fell on you and broke your neck.  Otherwise, no, I do not believe it is possible.  At least, it is extremely difficult.  It is easier to get sick and die from drinking too much water.[1]
 1. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-drinking-too-much-water-can-kill/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyponatremia
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Offline screwtape

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #72 on: March 03, 2014, 09:53:17 AM »
Radley Balko's blog at WaPo.  Loads of criminal justice horror stories. 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/pb/radley-balko


WaPo lets you access a fixed number of articles per month, and more requires a subscription.  I burned through it before I'd read everything I wanted.  So pace yourself.
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Offline blue

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #73 on: March 03, 2014, 10:39:03 AM »
Radley Balko's blog at WaPo.  Loads of criminal justice horror stories. 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/pb/radley-balko


WaPo lets you access a fixed number of articles per month, and more requires a subscription.  I burned through it before I'd read everything I wanted.  So pace yourself.
Balko is king! If you read it through an RSS feed you get around the subscriptions of a lot of sites, another alternative is go into incognito mode and load the link and it will usually let you view the site like it's your first visit every time.
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Offline Chronos

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #74 on: March 04, 2014, 08:22:42 AM »
Balloon Juice: Cowboy Cops



John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline screwtape

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #75 on: March 04, 2014, 11:21:34 AM »
link from that one:
http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2014/02/17/police-beat-stun-deaf-man-after-confusing-sign-language-with-threatening-gestures/

Quote
Jonathan Meister was retrieving some stuff he was storing at an ex-roommate’s home when he looked up to find several members of the Hawthorne Police Department approaching.

The South Bay man claims officers didn’t give him a chance to explain what he was doing before placing him in handcuffs, beating him and using a stun gun to shock him into submission.

The problem began when police reportedly misunderstood Meister’s attempts to speak in sign language as threatening gestures.
(continues)
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Offline screwtape

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #76 on: March 04, 2014, 12:14:45 PM »
militarized police are not the only factor that gives rise to a militarized police state.  They need help from the prosecutors (who don't seem to give a flying ratfck about what justice actually is) and the judiciary (who seem to think their job is to make the prosecutor's like easier).

In Florida (where else?) they have decided to retry the case against Marisa Alexander.  You may remember she was the woman who was sentenced to 20 years for firing a warning shot near her abusive husband who was in the midst of giving her a beating.  Her crime being, not killing him.  The verdict of the Zimmerman case sort of forced them to take another look at Ms Alexander.

However, they have now used new sentencing guidlines, and if convicted, the prosecutor has asked for 60 years. 
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/marissa-alexander-retrial-030314

I wonder what country this is, almost daily now.


edit: 15 -->20; injustice --> verdict
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 12:16:17 PM by screwtape »
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Offline Chronos

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #77 on: March 04, 2014, 04:24:24 PM »
The problem began when police reportedly misunderstood Meister’s attempts to speak in sign language as threatening gestures.


That sounds like the beginning of an SNL skit rather than effective policing.

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Online nogodsforme

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #78 on: March 04, 2014, 04:51:11 PM »
The problem began when police reportedly misunderstood Meister’s attempts to speak in sign language as threatening gestures.


That sounds like the beginning of an SNL skit rather than effective policing.

Really. I would expect this on Key and Peele, not real life.  :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Chronos

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #79 on: March 04, 2014, 06:55:14 PM »
Where I live and work is right by the two locations for the schools for the deaf in Maryland, so seeing a lot of deaf people use sign language is quite normal and I should be learning it, as well. Also, by having Gallaudet University not that far away (DC), just emphasizes it more. So, I may not be able to interpret sign language, but I've seen enough of it to know when someone is using it (not unlike being unable to speak Korean but knowing Korean when I hear it).

Our police officers should be part of our community and be able to discern between sign language, diabetic seizures and threatening gestures. Yet it seems like they are better prepared to deal with one man armed with a shotgun holding himself hostage in his apartment or for knowing how to rappel a 20-story building and use a laser sight to target a man through a plate glass window at 200'  than being able to tell when a person is having a medical emergency ... or use sign language.

Why have we forgotten the simple things?





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Online nogodsforme

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #80 on: March 04, 2014, 07:32:05 PM »
Or someone with a mental illness who is probably not dangerous, like my brother. :(
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline screwtape

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #81 on: May 27, 2014, 12:31:48 PM »
report on the surveillance of Occupy by the government.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/23/us/officials-cast-wide-net-in-monitoring-occupy-protests.html?rref=us&module=Ribbon&version=context&region=Header&action=click&contentCollection=U.S.&pgtype=Multimedia&_r=0

Quote
The files did not show any evidence of phone or email surveillance; instead, much of the material was acquired from social media, publicly disseminated information and reports by police officers or others.

Does anyone believe they didn't tap phones or read email?  I don't.

So, gun nuts who stand against tyranny, who proclaim loudly to defend rights everywhere, are you going to start shooting some cops and judges to defend the 1st and 4th amendment rights of Occupy protestors?  No?  I didn't think so.

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Offline Chronos

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #82 on: May 27, 2014, 08:32:49 PM »
So, gun nuts who stand against tyranny, who proclaim loudly to defend rights everywhere, are you going to start shooting some cops and judges to defend the 1st and 4th amendment rights of Occupy protestors?  No?  I didn't think so.

Not until being an Occupy protestor becomes alpha-male macho.

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Online nogodsforme

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #83 on: May 27, 2014, 09:13:44 PM »
Remember the right wingers bringing guns to town meetings and anti-Obamacare rallies? The occupy protestors should have been armed. Oh, but then the police might have shot them--and the right wingers wouldn't say a word about gun rights then.   &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline screwtape

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #84 on: May 28, 2014, 06:49:19 AM »
heard on NPR this morning.  Customs, Homeland Seucirty and local law enforcement yahoos go overboard searching private airplanes for "flying suspiciously" or on "known drug routes". 

http://www.wnyc.org/story/after-private-pilots-complain-customs-rethinks-intercept-policy/

Quote
Two years ago, they packed their bags, loaded them into the airplane, and took off for Nashua, N.H., to visit their daughter and her family. Mid-route, they stopped at an airport in Frankfort, Ky., to refuel and spend the night, when they noticed that a small jet had landed directly behind them, with no radio communication.

Four federal agents shouldering assault rifles scrambled out of the jet and surrounded the Lewis's little two-seater plane, asking for IDs.

...
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Offline screwtape

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #85 on: May 28, 2014, 06:53:31 AM »
Remember the right wingers bringing guns to town meetings and anti-Obamacare rallies? The occupy protestors should have been armed. Oh, but then the police might have shot them--and the right wingers wouldn't say a word about gun rights then.   &)

I agree.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,23294.msg522843.html#msg522843
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Offline Chronos

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Re: militarized police state
« Reply #86 on: May 29, 2014, 09:48:01 PM »
I absolutely despise the war on drugs.

John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.