Author Topic: Don't protest after sundown..  (Read 300 times)

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Online wright

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Re: Don't protest after sundown..
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2014, 01:40:59 PM »
I heard today on NPR that only 6% of the black population there is registered to vote.  Jesse Jackson - whom I do not love - was talking to a group of peaceful protesters.  His message was a good one: "let's go door to door and register people to vote.  We get 5000 voters, we own this town."

I am 100% behind the idea that if you do not vote, you must stfu.  You have no right to complain.

Jackson isn't one of my favorite people either, but I agree with him on that.

So white superiority is just a part of american life so too fucking bad for everyone else? It's a bad analogy to compare it to a disease. Racism isn't a disease.

I didn't read the rest.

-Nam

Bolds mine.

Quite the misenterpretation of  what screwtape actually said. His posts make it pretty clear to me that he's not saying 'Too Fucking Bad: things are bad and won't change' but 'TFB: things are bad so change them'.

As to the OP, at this point the National Guard should be arresting the Ferguson cops.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Don't protest after sundown..
« Reply #30 on: August 19, 2014, 01:53:50 PM »
So white superiority is just a part of american life so too fucking bad for everyone else?

Yes, Nam.  It is something that has to be addressed.  It is reality and reality does not care.  That does not mean I think it is good.  That does not mean it is just.  That does not mean it should not be changed.  It just means that is reality.  And since it is reality, it is what is there to interact with.  Wishing is not going to make it go away.  Praying won't help you and crying won't do you any good.[1]  If you don't want to deal with it, Too Fucking Bad.  It is what there is to deal with.  So, deal with it.

I didn't read the rest.

Then you are not even trying to have a conversation, let alone understand what I've said.  You jumped to a wrong conclusion and are intent on standing by it.  That is not very smart. 

I read everything you wrote even though it was a just collection of poorly thought out assumptions and misguided fantasies.

Come on, Nammy.  Explain how the situation is supposed to change without them voting.  You are so hot to trot on condemning me.  What is the answer?   



atheola,

I misunderstood what you wrote.  No, I don't believe I know you or your family.  I have no idea why you would ask or what that would have to do with the conversation.  I've made no assumptions about you or them.

No, I am not taking a no excuses stance as if everyone lives in the same circumstances as I do.  I am saying this is reality.  To not acknowledge reality is stupid. 

But maybe you can tell me what Nammy cannot (will not?) - what else is their alternative?  "Voting is too hard," isn't going to turn the city council black.  Excuses aren't going to fire the police chief.  Not voting isn't going to hire black cops.  What is the magic ingredient?



As to the OP, at this point the National Guard should be arresting the Ferguson cops.

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Online Nam

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Re: Don't protest after sundown..
« Reply #31 on: August 19, 2014, 03:22:46 PM »
Bolds mine.

Quite the misenterpretation of  what screwtape actually said. His posts make it pretty clear to me that he's not saying 'Too Fucking Bad: things are bad and won't change' but 'TFB: things are bad so change them'.

I know what he said. He's saying: vote to change things. And what I am saying is: how can I[1] when they do everything they can to prevent me from doing so?

 -Nam
 1. not me personally since I'm white -- and though me as a white person can change things for them if I wasn't in a dominated white Republican racist area called: the South. Liberals are just as much a minority to these people as anyone.
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Online shnozzola

Re: Don't protest after sundown..
« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2014, 04:08:52 PM »
   I can sort of understand both sides here.   I get a kick out of Al Sharpton.  The other night while he had the mic he asked the protestors where they had been a couple weeks earlier during the small turnout for elections.  He also asked way local, state, federal governments can spend so much on police  vehicles but so very little on jobs.  This may be a wakeup call to urban folks to vote like crazy.  I hope so.

   On the other hand, those of us with white skin don't know how it feels to drive, walk, and live while black.  Funny, many very intelligent African Americans I know have a culture of stfu - don't say a word  - don't vote - look down - keep under the radar.  It must have something to do with your grandfather or great grandfather getting whipped for being insubordinate. I hope what is going on in Ferguson changes things, but I am worried it won't.
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Re: Don't protest after sundown..
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2014, 04:52:23 PM »
White power in Ferguson:

You're allowed to protest peacefully as long you do it when white power says so, and you're not standing still: keep walking if not then we will shoot you with fake and/or real bullets, shoot tear gas at you, arrest you, and then blame you for everything. Anyone found helping you (like reporters) will be arrested for their safety (and so they can't record anything) -- oh, no fly zone over the protests. You want free speech, go somewhere where they care.

53 strong police force. 3 blacks on the whole force. 67.4% black but a white mayor, mainly white city council, including a mainly white or all white school board etc.,

How does Ferguson make they money: fines. More arrests and tickets equals more money for Ferguson -- well, more money for white people in Ferguson since they control everything.

Jesse Jackson and All Sharpton puts up registration possibilities and a white Republican party Chief member in Missouri calls it "disgusting".

Yep. It's disgusting. This tragedy didn't happen to black people, it happened to Missourians[1].

Well, those black people need to just fucking grow up and realise this is the reality of things and they only have themselves to blame, right?

Riiiight

-Nam
 1. white ones
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Re: Don't protest after sundown..
« Reply #34 on: August 19, 2014, 05:11:52 PM »
http://www.newsweek.com/ferguson-profiling-police-courts-shooting-264744

24,500+ warrants. Ferguson -- a hotbed of criminals. But that's their fault, as you say.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Online atheola

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Re: Don't protest after sundown..
« Reply #35 on: August 19, 2014, 08:27:15 PM »
Screwtape, respectfully I don't have all the answers to low voter turnout because if I did I'd be working for the biggest political campaign to elect progressives, but merely blaming everyone for having zero faith in elected officials isn't going to cut it either. That too is reality.
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Offline Brakeman

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Re: Don't protest after sundown..
« Reply #36 on: August 19, 2014, 09:50:09 PM »
   I can sort of understand both sides here.   I get a kick out of Al Sharpton.  The other night while he had the mic he asked the protestors where they had been a couple weeks earlier during the small turnout for elections.  He also asked way local, state, federal governments can spend so much on police  vehicles but so very little on jobs.  This may be a wakeup call to urban folks to vote like crazy.  I hope so.

I met and chatted with Al Sharpton in real life in the late eighties. I was surprised by his change in personality from his public persona within just minutes of hearing him raz the crown at USM in Hattiesburg Mississippi. I've written him a couple of times since. He seems like a nice guy, but you quickly get the feeling that being black is his job.
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Re: Don't protest after sundown..
« Reply #37 on: August 19, 2014, 10:01:03 PM »
     The whole racial tension thing is just festering under the surface.
     Since 1986 I have lived in Tucson Arizona, Missoula Montana, Boulder Colorado and Bishop California. I never choose to live anywhere because of the racial makeup only because of the outdoor recreational opportunities. That being said I in no way miss my childhood home in New Jersey with its' undercurrent of racial tension.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Don't protest after sundown..
« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2014, 05:29:42 AM »
Screwtape, respectfully I don't have all the answers to low voter turnout because if I did I'd be working for the biggest political campaign to elect progressives, but merely blaming everyone for having zero faith in elected officials isn't going to cut it either. That too is reality.

Okay ath, you don't have all the answers.  That's fair.  Do you have any answers?  suggestions?  Ideas?  How might they improve their lot?

Keep in mind, almost 9 times as many voters in Ferguson turned out to vote in the last presidential election than did for the last local election.

It's a real conundrum, innit?


And Nam, quit acting like a baby.  I never said it was their fault.  I said they needed to take responsibility for helping themselves and vote. 

I don't mind having discussions with you where we disagree as long as you show a willingness to hear me out and not mischaracterize what I said.  So far you've done neither.
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Online atheola

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Re: Don't protest after sundown..
« Reply #39 on: August 20, 2014, 02:07:50 PM »
Well, contrary to some I think election day should be a national day much like a holiday and be at minimum of 24 hours and open to all. 24 hours to give everyone who works the opportunity to vote. I've had to miss elections because I had to work so all workers should be given days or hours off to vote, preferably paid time to vote. In fact at large offices, factories, etc, should be able to have open polls on premises NOT run by company officials, exclude churches as polling places unless there is no other viable options available, but as we should all know church polling places are automatically tainted in favor of the (fake) pious candidates. Of course that's a pipe dream..
Voting should be tied to receiving any government benefit be it welfare, tax refund or tax breaks of any sort..
The list could go on and on, but registration should be as easy as possible and IF it's going to require photo ID that photo ID ought to be issued free upon voter registration to anyone who request it..
As it sits now voter registration is increasingly more difficult with more and more barriers put in place with fewer polling places with shorter hours.
Feel free to make more suggestions..
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Don't protest after sundown..
« Reply #40 on: Yesterday at 07:56:08 AM »
Well, contrary to some I think election day should be a national day much like a holiday ...

Thank you for the reply.  I do appreciate it.  It is more than Nammy has done.  He prefers to dodge the question, put his fingers in his ears and mischaracterize what I have said.

Those are all things I mostly agree with.  However, none of those are things the people of Ferguson can enact without political power.  What I am asking you and Nammy is how do they change their situation?  Because no one else is going to do it for them.  And while their situation is not their fault, it is their responsibility.  If it is not their responsibility, then whose is it?

You both point out how he deck is stacked against them, and I agree.  But what I am hearing from both of you is, in not so many words, "they can't do anything about it."  You have essentially described them as absolutely helpless.  Is that an accurate description? If so, I disagree.

As I will point out for the third or fourth time now, they actually can vote.  There are some barriers.  But whatever those barriers, they have overcome them in the recent past.  They voted in large numbers just two years ago for a black president.  And they are much less helpless than their kin several generations ago during the fight for civil rights. 

Maybe all this will motivate them to, you know, vote.

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Re: Don't protest after sundown..
« Reply #41 on: Yesterday at 02:25:08 PM »
You're over simplifying things with 'vote or STFU' because not only is the deck stacked the dealer and pit boss are in cahoots along with the other players betting with near unlimited money to discourage voting. You and I both know the history of places to keep black residents from polling places, but over time even when they do vote they often lose. The public perception that all elections are rigged isn't just a rumor cooked up by lazy people. It's quite real, so when outside groups are able to dump millions into local elections to keep daddy rich in office the average voter sees very little reason to bother and when SCOTUS undermines voting rolling back laws intended to stop voter suppression where does that leave people?
When your option is to go vote and risk losing your job, home and ability to feed your family knowing the candidate you might vote for will probably lose anyway doesn't exactly make people even think voting is worth the bother.
There's got to be other solutions besides merely blaming people for not voting. I don't have the easy answers, but it's not so clear cut as vote or STFU..
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Don't protest after sundown..
« Reply #42 on: Today at 07:56:11 AM »
You're over simplifying things with 'vote or STFU'

In this case, I'm not. 

You keep saying these things and I have to keep pointing out that all the things you have been talking about are real, but do not generally apply to Missouri nor specifically to Ferguson. 

And in any case, you seem to agree that no one is going to rescue them.  That there is no Superman who can change anything for them.  That the only thing that will do anything is for them to take responsibility for their own destiny and change the political situation by voting. 

There is no real alternative.  Should they all buy guns and revolt against a tyrannical local government?  I think that would result in the National Guard killing them all.  "Second Amendment solutions" are a fantasy. 

Complaining and not voting is a pointless waste of time.

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