Author Topic: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!  (Read 5335 times)

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Online Nam

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #58 on: August 21, 2013, 10:14:16 PM »
"Atheism is about belief."

Belief in what?

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #59 on: August 22, 2013, 07:44:35 AM »
"Atheism is about belief."

Belief in what?

-Nam

Belief in nothing.  Like Seinfeld was the show about nothing.  Life just happens around us.  Let it unfold.   ;)
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline epidemic

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #60 on: August 22, 2013, 07:50:52 AM »
"Atheism is about belief."

Belief in what?

-Nam

Actually it is not belief in nothing.  It is belief that the people who contend god is real are wrong.  Once presented with the argument that god is real, and you can not disprove it, then it is a belief that these people and their sources are wrong.

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #61 on: August 22, 2013, 09:55:40 PM »
What is "God"?

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

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Online Azdgari

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #62 on: August 22, 2013, 11:59:40 PM »
I still think it is a little strange (not considering the possibility that your definition could be wrong) ...

Definitions cannot ever be right or wrong.  That is not part of the meaning that a definition conveys.
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline Mrjason

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #63 on: August 27, 2013, 09:28:16 AM »
As I said, it is legally a belief.

And so what if it is? The point of defining it as a belief is to give it the same privileges as actual beliefs. It doesn't mean it actually is a belief.

Ok so atheism isn't a belief in nothing it is an implied belief in;
This universe works exactly as it would be expected if there were no god.

Making it “cogent, serious and worthy of respect in a democratic society”
Therefore a protected charicteristic

I believe that there are no gods and as such I will not act as if there are gods. Does that qualify as a belief?

That's your belief (although I doubt that's what you actually believe), but it doesn't define atheism as a whole.

Please clarify this.

[
edit; I'm not doing this to piss you off, I'm writing an employment law paper and am interested in the rational behind "belief" arguments.

In that case I advise you to learn the difference between "rational" and "rationale".

This comes across as a tad petty.  ;)

Online One Above All

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #64 on: August 27, 2013, 09:40:40 AM »
Ok so atheism isn't a belief in nothing it is an implied belief in;
This universe works exactly as it would be expected if there were no god.

Making it “cogent, serious and worthy of respect in a democratic society”
Therefore a protected charicteristic

For the last time, atheism is not a belief. What I wrote is one of the many problems with an omnimax benevolent deity and our universe as we know it, and don't act like you didn't know it. I should smite you for that.

Please clarify this.

What's there to clarify? It's your belief. Atheism as a whole is something far simpler: the lack of belief in deities.

This comes across as a tad petty.  ;)

If you want to be taken seriously by everyone, you have to learn how to write. Trust me on that.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 09:44:13 AM by One Above All »
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #65 on: August 27, 2013, 10:19:44 AM »
I'm surprised that people are still arguing about whether atheism is a belief or not.

Look, I'll try to clarify this.  Atheism is the statement that whatever a person believes in, or believes to be true, deities do not factor into it.  That's all.  So yes, atheists do have beliefs (though not religious ones), but atheism itself is not one of those beliefs.

For example, I don't believe that the supernatural exists.  That's a statement about my beliefs, but it is not itself a belief, because it doesn't describe what I do believe in.  You could say that it helps to establish the boundaries, but only in a very rough sense.  You can't tell what an atheist believes merely because they are an atheist, in other words.  You can only tell what they don't believe.

I liken it to this math example - if you have a non-negative number, it doesn't tell you what the number actually is, it just tells you what the number isn't.

Does that help to resolve this dispute?

Offline epidemic

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #66 on: August 27, 2013, 10:40:52 AM »

For example, I don't believe that the supernatural exists.  That's a statement about my beliefs, but it is not itself a belief, because it doesn't describe what I do believe in.  You could say that it helps to establish the boundaries, but only in a very rough sense.  You can't tell what an atheist believes merely because they are an atheist, in other words.  You can only tell what they don't believe.

I liken it to this math example - if you have a non-negative number, it doesn't tell you what the number actually is, it just tells you what the number isn't.

Does that help to resolve this dispute?

But when someone proposes the idea that the supernatural exists,  I still think it relegates your postion to a likely well informed belief.  You believe the person proposing supernatural powers is wrong.  However you can not prove it.  I still think that is a belief.  Much like my catching a bullet I fired story.  I can not prove it and you can not disprove it.  Hence you believe I am lying.

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #67 on: August 27, 2013, 11:34:52 AM »
Where do you get this "You can't prove or disprove it therefore you're a liar" from?

That's idiotic.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline jaimehlers

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #68 on: August 27, 2013, 12:21:57 PM »
But when someone proposes the idea that the supernatural exists,  I still think it relegates your postion to a likely well informed belief.
This is flat-out incorrect.  Beliefs are defined by what they are, not by what they are not.  This means that the existence of a belief does not (and more to the point, cannot) make its negation into another belief.  The mere existence of someone who believes in the supernatural does not make other people's lack of belief in the supernatural into an actual belief, in other words, which is what you are suggesting.

Quote from: epidemic
You believe the person proposing supernatural powers is wrong.  However you can not prove it.  I still think that is a belief.  Much like my catching a bullet I fired story.  I can not prove it and you can not disprove it.  Hence you believe I am lying.
Since it's impossible to prove a negative, why would you then think it would make sense to believe in that negative?

Furthermore, in your example, you are conflating two different things - your inability to provide evidence to support your claim (since we both know it's impossible to prove a negative) and the resulting belief that you are lying about it.  They are not the same thing, and thus your position is flawed.

----

By the way, I know it's possible to phrase something you don't believe in in such a way that it seems like you do believe in something.  For example, taking "I do not believe in the supernatural" and changing it to "I believe the supernatural does not exist".  But it is not an actual belief, because it's not believing in something.  In both cases, treating this like a belief is nonsensical, because it is essentially a "belief in nothing".  Even nihilism is a belief in something - that existence is senseless and pointless, and thus doesn't matter - but it's not a belief in nothing.

As I said in my earlier post, you can't define what someone does believe with things they don't believe.  You have to know what they actually believe, otherwise your position becomes flawed.

Offline Astreja

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #69 on: August 27, 2013, 12:28:32 PM »
Epidemic, "the supernatural" is a catch-all term for unexplained phenomena that appear to contradict reality as it is commonly experienced.  Moreover, they usually suffer from the problem of not being repeatable phenomena; hence, there is no easy way for a skeptic to obtain empirical confirmation or to determine the underlying mechanism of the event.

Not believing in a one-off extraordinary occurrence is reasonable, IMO.  Requesting supporting evidence isn't an allegation that the claimant has lied; it's saying "No, that's not enough for me to go on.  Got anything else?"
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Online One Above All

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #70 on: August 27, 2013, 12:30:56 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks that epidemic is lying about being an atheist? I wouldn't be surprised if he turned around and said something like... "You know what, christianity makes sense! I'm a born-again christian!"
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Offline epidemic

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #71 on: August 27, 2013, 12:36:39 PM »
well I guess we are just on different pages here.   

I say I have been teleported by an alien,   you ask me to prove it, I say I can not.

You say teleportation is not possible.  I say prove I have not been teleportation is not possible.

In this imaginary scenario assume I actually was teleported.  just because you can not prove a negative does not make it false.

Even though your convinced I have never been teleported you are wrong.  is your postion a belief that is wrong or is it an errant fact?

I think most everything I have an opinion or think I know is probably more of a belief than hard core fact I have been told that lions are from africa and alligators live in some north carolina swamps.  I believe these things to be true I have lots of things that are hear say but I have not personally verified either.  there is no reason for someone to lie about these things so I have a very firm belief but....

I have not verified nukes were dropped on japan, I have seen lots off sources that say they were but I have not seen a mushroom cloud nor wittnessed a city destroyed.

Offline epidemic

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #72 on: August 27, 2013, 12:42:11 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks that epidemic is lying about being an atheist? I wouldn't be surprised if he turned around and said something like... "You know what, christianity makes sense! I'm a born-again christian!"

Nope, not gonna happen.  we are quibbling over the definition of a word.  I believe you are an atheist I am an agnostic atheist and I believe that most claimed atheists are agnostic atheists or weak atheists.  Like my friend i do find the strongest sense of the word atheist is a very rare person.  Probably self absorbed and cock sure of himself.  but even dawkins (spelling) admitts to be only 99.99999% atheist.  that leaves a small amount of room for the existence of god.  I myself am 99.99999% sure the bible is wrong, and 99.9% sure there are no gods or dieties or magic, or unicorns...  I am not 100% sure because I am not so arrogant as to say I know for a fact that I know enough to answer with authority on the absolute absence of god.


You will have to take me at my word but I am not misrepresenting myself.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 12:46:48 PM by epidemic »

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #73 on: August 27, 2013, 12:53:15 PM »
<snip>

The only way that makes any sense is if we ignore the fact that everyone has a different definition of the term "god". Mine, for example, cannot exist. Ergo, I am a gnostic atheist[1], and it doesn't require a big ego for me to be one.

You will have to take me at my word but I am not misrepresenting myself.

I don't have to take you at your word. In fact, I already don't.
 1. Not a typo.
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #74 on: August 27, 2013, 01:11:08 PM »
well I guess we are just on different pages here.
The problem is that you're too focused on arguing with us, and not focused enough on the flaws in your own position.

Quote from: epidemic
I say I have been teleported by an alien,   you ask me to prove it, I say I can not.
Which means, barring actual evidence to support your claim, there's no reason to accept it.

Quote from: epidemic
You say teleportation is not possible.
No, I don't.  I say that we don't know if teleportation is possible.

Quote from: epidemic
I say prove I have not been teleportation is not possible.
This sentence is an offense against the English language.  I suggest you rephrase.

Quote from: epidemic
In this imaginary scenario assume I actually was teleported.  just because you can not prove a negative does not make it false.
But it doesn't make it true either, which is the point.  That's why the person advancing a claim has to support it.

Quote from: epidemic
Even though your convinced I have never been teleported you are wrong.  is your postion a belief that is wrong or is it an errant fact?
Still a flawed position, epidemic.  As I said earlier, you're too busy arguing and not busy enough thinking.  You aren't correctly predicting what my position would actually be, and thus you're presenting a false dichotomy of possible positions.  There are other options besides the two you presented here.

Quote from: epidemic
I think most everything I have an opinion or think I know is probably more of a belief than hard core fact I have been told that lions are from africa and alligators live in some north carolina swamps.  I believe these things to be true I have lots of things that are hear say but I have not personally verified either.  there is no reason for someone to lie about these things so I have a very firm belief but....
Yes, all of those are beliefs, after a fashion.  But the point is that they're about you believing in something (that exists or that happened, or even where it came from).  If you didn't believe that lions were from Africa, then you would have to have someplace in mind where you thought they came from - which is a belief.  But the lack of belief in something is not itself a belief.

And that's what I'm trying to get at.  Atheists do indeed believe in things.  As Hatter said, he believes that when he sets his hat down and goes to sleep, it will stay where it is unless something (like another person, or an animal, or wind from his overhead fan that he left on) moves it.  So atheists have things they believe in instead of gods - but that does not mean that atheism itself is one of those beliefs.

Do you see what I'm trying to get at now?

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #75 on: August 27, 2013, 02:18:31 PM »
Nope, not gonna happen.  we are quibbling over the definition of a word.  I believe you are an atheist I am an agnostic atheist and I believe that most claimed atheists are agnostic atheists or weak atheists.  Like my friend i do find the strongest sense of the word atheist is a very rare person.  Probably self absorbed and cock sure of himself.  but even dawkins (spelling) admitts to be only 99.99999% atheist.  that leaves a small amount of room for the existence of god.  I myself am 99.99999% sure the bible is wrong, and 99.9% sure there are no gods or dieties or magic, or unicorns...  I am not 100% sure because I am not so arrogant as to say I know for a fact that I know enough to answer with authority on the absolute absence of god.

You will have to take me at my word but I am not misrepresenting myself.

I have a question, epidemic.

In a hypothetical world that had no gods in the first place, and where nobody had ever suggested or heard of a god, where the word atheist was not even needed because nobody had ever thought of god things, would their non-stance on their non-god situation still be a belief?
Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Offline Graybeard

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #76 on: August 27, 2013, 04:19:55 PM »
I say I have been teleported by an alien, you ask me to prove it, I say I can not.

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/162890-human-teleportation-would-take-so-long-itd-be-more-like-a-death-ray

The evidence is against you and you have no explanation. I reckon that's enough proof.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #77 on: August 27, 2013, 04:22:47 PM »
Am I the only one who thinks that epidemic is lying about being an atheist? I wouldn't be surprised if he turned around and said something like... "You know what, christianity makes sense! I'm a born-again christian!"

He's an atheist? Really? I never got that.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #78 on: August 29, 2013, 03:45:25 PM »
He's an atheist? Really? I never got that.

-Nam

It's what he claims. I believe otherwise, though.
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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #79 on: August 29, 2013, 03:48:16 PM »
He's an atheist? Really? I never got that.

-Nam

It's what he claims. I believe otherwise, though.

If he's an atheist than we all must be Christians. :P

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline epidemic

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #80 on: August 29, 2013, 03:51:25 PM »
He's an atheist? Really? I never got that.

-Nam

It's what he claims. I believe otherwise, though.


[correction]Well that just goes to prove your faith is misplaced:)
Sorry for my poor choice of words.       
----------- well that just proves to me that your beliefs are wrong on occasion---------
----------- as such I will have to be careful when evaluating what you say--------------

[/correction]



Like I said before I am an agnostic atheist.   I still have room in my mind that I may be incorrect in my analysis of the universe.  But at this point religious texts that tell us about god appear to be false.   If they are false and they are our only link to what is in gods mind and our only link to his existence then I think I can logically conclude there is no god.

However that all hinges on my belief that I am right in analysis.   A shit load of people believe in god and they claim to have spoken with him through history.  Who am I to say that I know they did not.   I am strongly inclined to think that it was a piece of bad gruel, a magic mushroom trip gone wrong and or other.  But my .00000001% belief that god might exist still remains.

If that makes me a theist then so be it.   But I don't think it does.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 04:43:56 PM by epidemic »

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #81 on: August 29, 2013, 03:55:50 PM »
Well that just goes to prove your faith is misplaced:)
<snip>

Even confuses belief with faith, like (most) theists do. I do believe[1] the evidence is piling up.
[sarcasm]I'll be sure to replace "believe" with "think" from now on, just for you.[/sarcasm]
 1. Get it?
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Offline epidemic

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #82 on: August 29, 2013, 04:34:44 PM »
well I guess we are just on different pages here.
The problem is that you're too focused on arguing with us, and not focused enough on the flaws in your own position.

Quote from: epidemic
I say I have been teleported by an alien,   you ask me to prove it, I say I can not.
Which means, barring actual evidence to support your claim, there's no reason to accept it.

Quote from: epidemic
You say teleportation is not possible.
No, I don't.  I say that we don't know if teleportation is possible.

Quote from: epidemic
I say prove I have not been teleportated
This sentence is an offense against the English language.  I suggest you rephrase.

Sorry corrected

Quote from: epidemic
In this imaginary scenario assume I actually was teleported.  just because you can not prove a negative does not make it false.

But it doesn't make it true either, which is the point.  That's why the person advancing a claim has to support it.


Actually no it doesn't need to be supported to be true.   It needs to be supported for you to believe it.  Again I said assume the reality,  I actually had been teleported under the conditions I explained.   Now I come to a non believer and tell them the incredible story of being teleported and I can not prove it.  I still have been teleported I just lack proof.   it is still truth in the scenario I laid out.  It is simply unverifiable. 

Just as the story of me catching a bullet I fired from my gun at a target 50 feet away.  it is slightly less unbelievable but I still don't expect you to  believe me.  I can not prove it so you would have to take me at my word and since you don't know me from adam, I guess it is up to you whether you believe it.   But it is never the less absolutely true. 

If you think it is false does that make it in actuallity false?  Since you can not verify it you may believe it to be false.  But it is only a belief.

As I think about this I kinda look at almost everything I know but have not personally tested are beliefs.  I believe to the maximum decimal place buttttt.

Quote
Yes, all of those are beliefs, after a fashion.  But the point is that they're about you believing in something (that exists or that happened, or even where it came from).  If you didn't believe that lions were from Africa, then you would have to have someplace in mind where you thought they came from - which is a belief.  But the lack of belief in something is not itself a belief.

And that's what I'm trying to get at.  Atheists do indeed believe in things.  As Hatter said, he believes that when he sets his hat down and goes to sleep, it will stay where it is unless something (like another person, or an animal, or wind from his overhead fan that he left on) moves it.  So atheists have things they believe in instead of gods - but that does not mean that atheism itself is one of those beliefs.

Do you see what I'm trying to get at now?

There is tons of proof that god exists I just don't lend it any credibility because those sources are old and defy logic and are from too few sources.  People through out history have claimed it.   I don't know if they lied or are dillusional for certain. 

Let me ask this, Isn't the claim of first hand knowledge a form of proof?  Usually we verify it with other first hand accounts when evaluating history and if we are lucky we may find corroberating physical evidence. 


Offline jaimehlers

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #83 on: August 29, 2013, 05:32:00 PM »
Actually no it doesn't need to be supported to be true.   It needs to be supported for you to believe it.  Again I said assume the reality,  I actually had been teleported under the conditions I explained.   Now I come to a non believer and tell them the incredible story of being teleported and I can not prove it.  I still have been teleported I just lack proof.   it is still truth in the scenario I laid out.  It is simply unverifiable.
Why are you wasting everyone's time arguing about semantics?

If something is true, there will be supporting evidence for it.  It doesn't matter whether it's teleportation, catching a bullet you fired out of a gun, or being able to leap tall buildings in a single bound.  So if you can't provide that supporting evidence, then there is no reason to go any further with your story until you can.  And that's really all there is to this.

You can pull out all the hypothetical scenarios you like, claim that they're arbitrarily true for the sake of argument, and then make the case that other people 'believe' they're false because you can't provide evidence.  So what?  There's a very simple fact that you're missing here - the burden of proof rests with the person making the claim.  Meaning, if you can't prove it, there's no reason to consider it to be true.  Indeed, if we take away your arbitrary statement that it was true despite your utter lack of proof, then the whole thing falls apart.

Quote from: epidemic
Just as the story of me catching a bullet I fired from my gun at a target 50 feet away.  it is slightly less unbelievable but I still don't expect you to  believe me.  I can not prove it so you would have to take me at my word and since you don't know me from adam, I guess it is up to you whether you believe it.   But it is never the less absolutely true.
No, it is not absolutely true.  You are arbitrarily declaring that it is absolutely true for the sake of argument.  And that is the fatal flaw in your argument.

Quote from: epidemic
If you think it is false does that make it in actuallity false?  Since you can not verify it you may believe it to be false.  But it is only a belief.
No, it is not a belief.  Because in actual fact - pay attention, this is important - the proper skeptical attitude is, "okay, prove it.  What, you don't have proof?  Then come back when you do, and stop wasting my time until then."  Instead, you're playing word games to try to support your argument, which are getting pretty tiresome.

Quote from: epidemic
As I think about this I kinda look at almost everything I know but have not personally tested are beliefs.  I believe to the maximum decimal place buttttt.
In case you haven't realized it, there is nothing at all in this universe that can be proved with absolute certainty.  Doesn't matter whether you've tested it or not, and it doesn't matter whether someone else has for that matter - you cannot be absolutely perfectly certain that it isn't wrong.  But it's extremely ridiculous to then say, "well, I can't be absolutely sure, even though it's almost completely sure, so hey, it's a belief that I have faith in".

Quote from: epidemic
There is tons of proof that god exists I just don't lend it any credibility because those sources are old and defy logic and are from too few sources.  People through out history have claimed it.   I don't know if they lied or are dillusional for certain. 

Let me ask this, Isn't the claim of first hand knowledge a form of proof?  Usually we verify it with other first hand accounts when evaluating history and if we are lucky we may find corroberating physical evidence.
All you had to say is, "no, I don't really get what you're saying," because it's clear from your post that you don't.  Acting as if you did, and then writing a post like this, is not conducive to a reasonable discussion.

There is not tons of proof that gods exist.  Instead, there's tons of evidence that people believe gods exist.  That's because the evidence is invariably anecdotal, and more to the point, most of it is anecdotal hearsay.  It's always a story that got passed down about a god or gods.  There are virtually no firsthand records of people who had experiences of the 'divine'.  And what few there are can't be verified because they're subjective.  Paul ran into an angel on the road when he was alone; Constantine saw a vision in the sky on the eve of a big battle (which, apparently, nobody else saw).  And so on and so forth.

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #84 on: August 29, 2013, 07:21:04 PM »
jaimehlers,

Don't forget the #1 (which is mentioned repetitively throughout the Bible): "God/an Angel/Jesus (etc.,) came to me in my dream."

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #85 on: August 29, 2013, 07:22:24 PM »
Quote
In case you haven't realized it, there is nothing at all in this universe that can be proved with absolute certainty.  Doesn't matter whether you've tested it or not, and it doesn't matter whether someone else has for that matter - you cannot be absolutely perfectly certain that it isn't wrong.  But it's extremely ridiculous to then say, "well, I can't be absolutely sure, even though it's almost completely sure, so hey, it's a belief that I have faith in".

That is what I have been driving at .  But I can see where you would say it is absolute fact.  As factual as you can imagine.




Simple fact is truth can not always be proven.

Just as I can not prove the bullet and it is true

Proof is not an absolute requirement of truth.  It is a valid tool in achieving belief.


Done arguing here!
« Last Edit: August 29, 2013, 07:29:50 PM by epidemic »

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: My friend does not believe in Atheists. He is an Aatheist!
« Reply #86 on: August 29, 2013, 10:21:12 PM »
Simple fact is truth can not always be proven.
Yes, it's true that the truth can't always be proven.  But that doesn't make what we currently know a belief based on faith.

Quote from: epidemic
Just as I can not prove the bullet and it is true
Let me make sure of something.  Is this another hypothetical scenario like your "teleported by aliens" thing, or is this something you actually say happened?  Cause if you say it really happened, then I think evidence would be in order.  Otherwise, it's just an unsubstantiated claim.

Quote from: epidemic
Proof is not an absolute requirement of truth.  It is a valid tool in achieving belief.
Ironically enough, if you had paid better attention, you might have noticed that I never said atheists didn't have beliefs.  They just aren't beliefs based on faith - that is, no evidence.