Author Topic: Egypt  (Read 317 times)

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Offline shnozzola

Egypt
« on: August 18, 2013, 09:57:55 AM »
Quote
In the four days since security forces cleared two sit-in camps by supporters of Egypt's ousted president, Islamists have attacked dozens of Coptic churches along with homes and businesses owned by the Christian minority. The campaign of intimidation appears to be a warning to Christians outside Cairo to stand down from political activism.

Christians have long suffered from discrimination and violence in Muslim majority Egypt, where they make up 10 percent of the population of 90 million. Attacks increased after the Islamists rose to power in the wake of the 2011 Arab Spring uprising that drove Hosni Mubarak from power, emboldening extremists. But Christians have come further under fire since President Mohammed Morsi was ousted on July 3, sparking a wave of Islamist anger led by Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/17/christians-in-egypt_n_3773991.html

Cue Murkan fundamentalist outrage and hatred, in the name of competing gods.      ~ sigh ~
“I wanna go ice fishing on Europa, and see if something swims up to the camera lens and licks it.”- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Offline Nick

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Re: Egypt
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2013, 10:37:02 AM »
Never ending battle in the Middle East.  If they did not have oil, and oil trade routes, and I guess Israel, we would not give them the time of day.  Our fight against moving to alternative energy sources has cost us so much more than money,lives, and position in the world. 
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Quesi

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Re: Egypt
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2013, 10:51:01 AM »
You know, I am opposed to the Muslim Brotherhood on every level. 

But their candidates were elected by the people of Egypt.  And then removed from leadership by a military coup.  And then folks protesting the coup started being slaughtered in the streets.

I don't like to say in, but in this case, I think that the Muslim Brotherhood have the moral high ground. 

Offline stuffin

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Re: Egypt
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2013, 10:23:47 AM »
You know, I am opposed to the Muslim Brotherhood on every level. 

But their candidates were elected by the people of Egypt.  And then removed from leadership by a military coup.  And then folks protesting the coup started being slaughtered in the streets.

I don't like to say in, but in this case, I think that the Muslim Brotherhood have the moral high ground.

You forgot one piece, the brotherhood was changing the rules to give them all the power. Still, like you say, they were elected, let the people reap what the elect. We know this all too well in the US of A.
I'd cut him if he stands, and I'd shoot him if he'd run
 Yes I'd kill him with my Bible and my razor and my gun

Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime.
Aristotle

Offline Nick

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Re: Egypt
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2013, 12:03:04 PM »
You know, I am opposed to the Muslim Brotherhood on every level. 

But their candidates were elected by the people of Egypt.  And then removed from leadership by a military coup.  And then folks protesting the coup started being slaughtered in the streets.

I don't like to say in, but in this case, I think that the Muslim Brotherhood have the moral high ground.

You forgot one piece, the brotherhood was changing the rules to give them all the power. Still, like you say, they were elected, let the people reap what the elect. We know this all too well in the US of A.
What is the difference between that and the GOP getting in power in states and changing districts so they can keep getting elected and laws controlling womens bodies?
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline stuffin

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Re: Egypt
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2013, 07:53:15 PM »
What is the difference between that and the GOP getting in power in states and changing districts so they can keep getting elected and laws controlling womens bodies?
Yup, their methods definitely run parallel.

So are you saying the Mus Bros are just like the Republicans?
I'd cut him if he stands, and I'd shoot him if he'd run
 Yes I'd kill him with my Bible and my razor and my gun

Poverty is the parent of revolution and crime.
Aristotle

Offline William

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Re: Egypt
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2013, 11:28:24 PM »
I'm not an expert but knowing there are usually two sides to every story I have been listening to a few Egyptians trying to explain what's going on.  I'll try to give some of the alternative arguments I've heard - I'm not endorsing any of them.

But their candidates were elected by the people of Egypt. 
The argument against this is that Muslims were put under considerable pressure in the Mosques to vote for the Muslim Brotherhood.
As such many Egyptian liberals/secularists consider the election was not free and fair - because politics was not separated from religion.
Post election the actions of Morsi to increase his powers and the violent tactics of the MB in persecuting other political and religious minorities e.g. anti-feminist activities and escalation of ethnic cleansing of Coptic Christians 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Copts
did not promote a sense of democracy for all Egyptians. There were also ongoing faction fights between Islamist groups within the government making things chaotic.

And then removed from leadership by a military coup. 
Apparently, the military only stepped in after many liberal/secularist Egyptians opposed to MB conducted huge ongoing protests. Morsi defied an ultimatum from the military to accommodate some of the demands of liberal/secular protestors. That precipitated the "coup".

And then folks protesting the coup started being slaughtered in the streets.
These MB protesters were organised from the Mosques (to include women and children) but were coordinated with other violent activities including burning of Coptic churches and attacks on government facilities and police stations. So further inflaming the liberals/secularists opposed to the religious Islamist politics by the MB.

I don't like to say in, but in this case, I think that the Muslim Brotherhood have the moral high ground.
The current military government is saying the MB have been behaving as "terrorists" against their political opposition for some time.



My own view on all of this: Recent massacres of MB protesters are certainly a tragic over-reaction from the military together with the angry secularist crowds.  But the MB were also pushing their weight around first, often violently, so aren't blameless in the situation.  So the whole saga may be a necessary process (by middle east standards) to purge Egypt of the ideals of the MB to run the country with Islamist ideas.  I suppose we'll only be able to judge this if the military take Egypt to another democratic election within a reasonable timeframe and without the secularists having to start protesting against the military.

 


« Last Edit: August 19, 2013, 11:46:29 PM by William »
Git mit uns

Offline Nick

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Re: Egypt
« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2013, 09:40:46 AM »
What is the difference between that and the GOP getting in power in states and changing districts so they can keep getting elected and laws controlling womens bodies?
Yup, their methods definitely run parallel.

So are you saying the Mus Bros are just like the Republicans?
I think I am.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!