Author Topic: Generic gun discussion  (Read 1102 times)

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Offline Traveler

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2013, 09:07:46 AM »
I found this video very interesting. Without consistent crisis training, folks who carry guns may not be any safer ... in fact, they might be in more danger than the rest of us.

If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline DumpsterFire

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #30 on: July 29, 2013, 09:47:41 AM »
I don't/won't hunt - so that will never be an issue, but should someone take to breaking in my home - should the alarm system not deter them, I will.  But, hey I'm a pagan :)
Neo, I assume you owned firearms while still a theist, so perhaps you can explain something for me. Why would someone who truly believes he is under the direct protection of god feel it necessary to own a gun? Either god is going to protect you or he's not, right? I always found it strange that so many theists are also big on guns for protection. Then again, it has always puzzled me why someone who truly believes they and their loved ones will go to heaven after they die would fear and mourn death.
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Offline Nam

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #31 on: July 29, 2013, 03:02:26 PM »
I agree, Nam. We will never outlaw guns in this country, at least in our lifetimes, and most certainly restrictions should be placed on who can purchase a gun. No matter where they buy it. That won't solve every problem, but it will reduce some of them. And that is about all we can realistically hope for in the current political climate.  Well, it's more than we can hope for, but at least it feels slightly realistic.

Which automatically disqualifies it from serious consideration by nutjobs in politics.

And the NRA who, if they could make guns for babies: they would.

-Nam

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #32 on: July 29, 2013, 03:04:20 PM »
And the NRA who, if they could make guns for babies: they would.

*sigh*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Eagle

Quote
The Eddie Eagle program and its namesake character were developed by the National Rifle Association for children who are generally considered too young to be allowed to handle firearms. While maturity levels vary, the Eddie Eagle program is intended for children of any age from pre-school through third grade.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Nam

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #33 on: July 29, 2013, 03:08:16 PM »
In the last city I lived in outside Orlando, Fl there were city signs all over the city saying, "No shooting guns in the air". One doesn't need to shoot at someone to be shot as a bullet falls from the sky and hits you on your head.

Apparently it happened a few times, thus the signs.

-Nam

Offline Dante

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #34 on: July 29, 2013, 03:26:08 PM »
In the last city I lived in outside Orlando, Fl there were city signs all over the city saying, "No shooting guns in the air". One doesn't need to shoot at someone to be shot as a bullet falls from the sky and hits you on your head.

Apparently it happened a few times, thus the signs.

-Nam

Looks like a prime market for my newly designed, patent pending, kevlar umbrellas.
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline neopagan

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #35 on: July 29, 2013, 04:51:42 PM »
Neo, I assume you owned firearms while still a theist, so perhaps you can explain something for me. Why would someone who truly believes he is under the direct protection of god feel it necessary to own a gun? Either god is going to protect you or he's not, right? I always found it strange that so many theists are also big on guns for protection. Then again, it has always puzzled me why someone who truly believes they and their loved ones will go to heaven after they die would fear and mourn death.
Yes, I owned them then as well, and I have no logical explanation other than I believe theists really don't believe what they preach deep down.  Obviously, I didn't rely on god to keep me safe "literally" but always did crazy things like pray for protection during a road trip, flu season, etc... 

The last funeral I sat through as a theist in Oct of last year was for a friend my age who keeled over dead waiting for his kids at judo practice. I sat there amazed at how devastated they all were despite all their rambling about the glory of heaven he saw now first hand... blah, blah.  My days were numbered as a believer, and I was seeing things differently to say the least.  I was sad because he was gone and his family was left in a bad way, but I took no solace in promises of a god who allegedly called him home.
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline G-Roll

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #36 on: July 29, 2013, 04:58:33 PM »
I am an occasional hunter. I only hunt waterfowl though as I have no idea what I would do with all the meat a deer would provide. I enjoy hunting geese and ducks and coming up with new ways to make them taste good. 
I don’t own a gun though. I don’t hunt alone and use my buddies Remington 1700. I provide the ammo/shot and he lets me borrow one of his shot guns. Maybe that makes me less of a man but.... who cares. I do plan on buying my own shotgun so one day I can hunt on my own.

As for the idea of using a weapon to defend myself I honestly don’t see the point. In most cases I can think of I wouldn’t be the first person to draw their weapon, nor would I sit around and watch tv with my gun waiting for some hooligan to break down my door. So unless I am some kind of super fast Quick Draw McGraw I am only going to get myself shot pulling out second or running through my house to my weapons location. Perhaps if I was sleeping and kept it in my room and heard someone break in it might be useful. But unless zombies rise from the dead or the US turns into a Mad Max movie I don’t see the need for owning a gun for safety. I don’t believe in shooting unarmed people and feel quite competent with defending myself with my bare hands. I am not afraid of a good old ass kicking enough to kill an unarmed asshole.

I do have a long semi interesting story though...
We were at an exercise where the MILES gear was used. MILES gear is the laser you attach to your weapon to simulate shooting the enemy. When they are hit a little buzzer goes off and their gear is shut down so they cannot engage back, because they are "dead." Anyhow the way it usually worked is that Security Forces (cops) would set up the perimeter and defend the base from any threats. Well they just deployed without the training so we had no cops and thus no real perimeter security.
I worked in the mortuary where I would process the "KIA" and was their first stop to process them back into the exercise. Most of my time was spent sneaking out shooting at bad guys (not my job) the rest of my time was spent processing friendly fire casualties. You wouldn’t believe the number of friendly fire casualties on nights we were attacked.
After this experience I have kind of come to the conclusion that if the Aurora theater shooting happened in a theater packed full of gun carriers the people in the back would shoot the people in the front. Sure someone would kill the bad guy but chaos and armed people who don’t know what they are doing is a tragedy waiting to happen. To think that everyone in the heat of the moment and fog of adrenalin can perform precisely what needs to be done in the precise moment the precise way is silly and laughable. Clearly the fear mongers who say differently are brainwashed by those who want to sell guns, or sell guns themselves.

Offline Traveler

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #37 on: July 29, 2013, 05:08:08 PM »
By the way, on a slight tangent, why do they still sell lead bullets? As I understand it, they're finding unacceptable levels of lead in deer meat and other wild game. And ditto with wild animals higher up the food chain such as eagles. With lead being so toxic, doesn't it make sense to eliminate them entirely from the market?
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #38 on: July 29, 2013, 05:43:36 PM »
By the way, on a slight tangent, why do they still sell lead bullets? As I understand it, they're finding unacceptable levels of lead in deer meat and other wild game. And ditto with wild animals higher up the food chain such as eagles. With lead being so toxic, doesn't it make sense to eliminate them entirely from the market?

The science on the "lead in the environment" thing isn't settled yet, but that aside: the main reason that bullets are typically made of lead is that, for various reasons, it's the best metal for a bullet.  It's very dense, so bullets don't have to be very large, and lead is also fairly cheap and plentiful.  Some manufacturers are starting to make lead-free bullets, but they're difficult to find, they tend to be expensive, and they're generally inferior to lead bullets for most purposes other than good old target shooting.

Sinterfire, for example, makes a 90 grain 9mm round that is lead-free.  It sells for $30 for a box of fifty on CheaperThanDirt.com.  By way of comparison, a typical 115 grain 9mm standard lead round can usually be had for about $20 for a box of fifty.  Price discrepancies for other types of ammo can be a lot higher, since 9mm is one of the more economical handgun cartridges.

EDIT:  Also, lead has a very low melting point, making it easier and less expensive to cast.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 05:55:15 PM by pianodwarf »
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Nam

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #39 on: July 29, 2013, 07:04:54 PM »
Let's make bullets out of diamonds[1]. They could be reusable.

-Nam

 1. they did that already, no? Doesn't matter: my sarcasm is still valid.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #40 on: July 29, 2013, 07:05:28 PM »
In addition, lead is very soft, meaning it is less likely to shatter or splinter on an impact (or inside the gun for that matter).  This would, at least in theory, make lead bullets safer to bystanders.

Soft and heavy metals are typically toxic, so it's hard to get around this.

Nam:  Diamonds are incredibly hard, but not necessarily all that strong, nor are they especially dense compared to something like lead.  They would make awful bullets, and would not be re-usable because they would often shatter.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 07:07:16 PM by Azdgari »
Unless you are Scarlett Johansason or something.  lol  i'd like to punish her with  my baby.  lol

Offline Dante

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #41 on: July 29, 2013, 07:10:30 PM »
And being softer, it also mushrooms and expands fairly easily, creating more damage than a hard bullet that stays the same diameter. And since it mushrooms and expands, there's less of a chance of it passing completely through a live target and hitting something/one else, though I suspect that was an unintentional attribute.
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline Chronos

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #42 on: July 29, 2013, 07:41:23 PM »
I found this video very interesting. Without consistent crisis training, folks who carry guns may not be any safer ... in fact, they might be in more danger than the rest of us.



Showing that the best weapon during a crisis is your own brain.

John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline Backspace

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #43 on: July 29, 2013, 10:00:40 PM »
I enjoy target practice as a hobby.  I spent 20+ years in the military, so I've had plenty of training.  While my wife isn't as enamored with shooting as I am, she's gone to the range with me and done well despite being a novice.  Several people from  work also shoot, and we enjoy making a day of it at the local range - especially on days we're furloughed due to the sequester, we pretend we're shooting politicians (just kidding).  I'm not a member of a regional or national gun organizations,  I'm not a hunter, and I don't have children in the house (I do have 2 cats, but as long as I keep them fed and their boxes clean, we stay pretty civil with each other).  Goodness knows, I did far more hazardous things than shooting while on active duty.

Would I shoot someone robbing my house? Not likely.  Would I shoot a thug directly threatening me or my wife in my house?  Without hesitation.
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Offline Nam

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #44 on: July 30, 2013, 02:00:13 AM »
This is why I have enjoyed paintball. Though, not at all like the real thing[1] close enough, and the bonus: no one dies.

When I did paintball on a regular basis, me and my friends would go out to this 2 or so mile long acreage and play war games.

I have seen, and been a part of enough real life violence that fake violence is more suitable.

-Nam
 1. who would really want to experience the real thing but a nut or thrill seeker

Offline Chronos

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #45 on: July 30, 2013, 02:50:09 PM »
Quiet Loner Really Comes Out Of Shell At Gun Store

Sometimes you can catch The Onion slumming around by writing in the mainstream.


John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline Nam

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #46 on: July 30, 2013, 02:58:06 PM »
In addition, lead is very soft, meaning it is less likely to shatter or splinter on an impact (or inside the gun for that matter).  This would, at least in theory, make lead bullets safer to bystanders.

Soft and heavy metals are typically toxic, so it's hard to get around this.

Nam:  Diamonds are incredibly hard, but not necessarily all that strong, nor are they especially dense compared to something like lead.  They would make awful bullets, and would not be re-usable because they would often shatter.

They've already made bullets out of diamonds, should read up on it.

-Nam

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #47 on: July 30, 2013, 03:46:11 PM »
Yes, I agree that you should.  Then you can cite the relevant information.
Unless you are Scarlett Johansason or something.  lol  i'd like to punish her with  my baby.  lol

Offline Willie

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #48 on: July 30, 2013, 09:59:53 PM »
In addition, lead is very soft, meaning it is less likely to shatter or splinter on an impact (or inside the gun for that matter).  This would, at least in theory, make lead bullets safer to bystanders.

Soft and heavy metals are typically toxic, so it's hard to get around this.

Gold seems the obvious choice then. Heavier than lead, nearly as soft, and non-toxic. Damn near perfect, other than having a higher melting point. And that little problem with cost.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #49 on: July 30, 2013, 10:18:38 PM »
Yeah a golden bullet would probably be ideal, if it weren't for that minor little cost thing.  Hey, then maybe there'd be fewer random shootings...!
Unless you are Scarlett Johansason or something.  lol  i'd like to punish her with  my baby.  lol

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #50 on: July 30, 2013, 10:38:21 PM »
Gun owners tell us that they are the experts on guns. They probably are.

I would think that gun owners would be a little miffed about innocent people being shot, and that, using their expertise, they would work on figuring out ways to reduce that number.  Right now they seem to be pretty good at saying everyone should have a gun and that that would help, but that doesn't solve the problem of accidental shootings (statistically it makes that problem worse), and it adds to the number of depressed people with access to guns. So if current gun zealots could just put their heads together and come up with some new ideas about how to shoot fewer innocents, that would be great.

Otherwise, it seems legit for those of us without guns to question the whole culture of guns and offer up a variety of solutions, which inevitably will include drastic ideas like making gun ownership illegal, etc.

Problems that don't solve themselves are inevitably going to deal with outside forces that are not inherently sympathetic. Until gun lovers can find a way to make guns cute and cuddly and lovable, they are going to have to put up with folks who think the current situation sucks.
Never trust an atom. They make up everything!

Offline carstensenscott

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #51 on: July 30, 2013, 10:54:46 PM »
I was raised by a marine. Partially deaf by age seven. Served two years in the army (not wartime, not veteran....not proud) and shot many variations of weapons. My father handed down the 8mm Mauser that was the first weapon he ever bought. And a couple years ago gifted my son a .22 bolt action rifle. They are both dusty and in the attic. We have shot them a few times. But for the past two years they have been hidden.

I have killed two animals with weapons. And both times it was horrific and traumatic.

The first was while my father, brother and I were shooting targets in the southern California deserts. My father had his .22 pistol on his hip. I was carrying my BBgun.
From the right a large jack rabbit popped out of the bushes. My dad drew, fired from the hip, and winged the hare. He proceeded to track it to the bush where it lied. Then, he forced my brother to "put it out of its misery". We both were crying in horror. Finally he shot it himself with the pistola and we left. (PTSD anyone)

Second, as I obviously hadn't learned my lesson, was a few years later. After my parents divorced and my father moved out to the country, my brother and I gave my mother such hell that she gave us up to live with my abusive father. l had trekked out one day...probably a 1/4 mile from home...and snuck up on a flock of beautiful meadow larks. BEAUTIFUL birds. I shot one. When I found it lying in the grass, I broke down in tears. Falling to the ground and apologizing for minutes on end. I can't remember what I did after.

Sorry about the sob story.

I think guns are redneck and a power show of reckless hillbillies. IMO. I don't even fish. And I live in the Pac NW. On the banks of the mighty Columbia. Surrounded by gun shows and gun toting shrimps driving lifted Ford's. It's a joke.

Thats what I think. I am a big fella and it would take a good group of tweakers to overpower me. And if they were packing and had the balls to use it...the chances that they new how to fire a handgun with any accuracy would be very slim.

I don't place myself or my family in situations where violence would be a concern. (Sure it happens)

Guns dont equal love.

Love is all we need.

Offline Nam

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Re: Generic gun discussion
« Reply #52 on: July 31, 2013, 03:04:30 AM »
Yes, I agree that you should.  Then you can cite the relevant information.

I didn't say they were effective, I said they already made them. My original comment was tongue-in-cheek; if your head wasn't stuck in your ass, you would've got that.

-Nam