Author Topic: Online pornography to be blocked by default, PM announces  (Read 474 times)

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Offline One Above All

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Online pornography to be blocked by default, PM announces
« on: July 22, 2013, 11:33:39 AM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23401076

Quote
Most households in the UK will have pornography blocked by their internet provider unless they choose to receive it, David Cameron has announced.

Yeah, because this is definitely going to work. And it's really all about the children; not control over what other people do in their spare time because you're a religious nut job who wants to impose his views on the population.
EDIT: Seriously, what's with theists and control over what other people do? Do they get off on making sure people are forced to live as they do? Are their lives so irrelevant (in their own opinions) that they feel the need to impose their beliefs onto others?

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Offline Mooby

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, PM announces
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2013, 11:44:08 AM »
Quote
Mr Cameron also called for warning pages to pop up with helpline numbers when people try to search for illegal content.
This looks suspiciously like a foothold to go after file sharing.  How long before torrent sites are added to the blacklist?
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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, PM announces
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2013, 11:56:18 AM »
Quote
Mr Cameron also called for warning pages to pop up with helpline numbers when people try to search for illegal content.
This looks suspiciously like a foothold to go after file sharing.  How long before torrent sites are added to the blacklist?

Probably depends on how many of their legiscritters are uninformed enough to believe that such blacklists actually work.  Content filters are comically easy to bypass, especially in a case like this where the content provider has no control over the end user's machine.  It really surprises me how many people there are out there who believe that content on the Internet can be controlled or restricted in any way... haven't any of these people heard of things like the Silk Road?
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Offline Nick

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, PM announces
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2013, 12:32:45 PM »
Shit, now the GOP will latch onto that and Jobs, Jobs, Jobs will be put on the back burner again.
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Offline Seppuku

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, PM announces
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2013, 01:43:42 PM »
I saw a funny comment about this, it was something like:

"It's kinda ironic that the country's biggest wanker wants to bar pornography on the internet".

This seems to be fueled by the idea that there have been active paedophiles using child pornography prior to the crime (at least it sounded like it on the radio this morning), child pornography that's easy to find on the net and the discussion seems to be extending to pornography in general.

Frankly I think it shows how much Cameron underestimates the internet. I mean, what terms are they going to make unsearchable (I sincerely doubt providers are going to be able to block every pornographic image on the web)? There will be ways people can work around filters, I mean a lot of 12 year old kids get around school barriers to banned websites (I remeber doing so - not naughty stuff before you ask - we weren't allowed to play flash games, the admin thought he was clever, yet we sat there playing a load flash games). Arguably ISPs and the law might be vigilant, but the internet is a huge place, it's meaningless.

If it's about the 'kids', well a responsible parent would set up a parental blocker and well...teach their kids. I don't understand why people are more interested in tucking problems under a rug without actually addressing the real problems. A person isn't going to sexually assault somebody based on the stuff they wank over on the internet. And it isn't going to prevent people making illegal pornography or sexually abusing people. It's just going to make it hard to view these images, but it's not exactly the wall at Fort Knox, it's more like a normal wall anybody with half a brain cell and an erect penis can get around.

I don't know if it's my job or if it's how society has become, but it seems people think the world should revolve around their kids, rather than to take responsibility as parents and teach the buggers. Seriously the amount of customers I get who use their kids as a bargaining chip is ridiculous.

However, I don't think there's a religious motivation (Cameron's hardly been one to enforce policies based on religion), I think it's actually a means of trying to find ways to censor the internet and pornography is an easy one for people to find socially acceptable, especially if you throw out lines like "think of the children". Yet, it would do barely anything to protect them. It just creates a sense of security, when there is none and when you think your child is safe from titties on the net because obviously the government is doing the honourable thing, whilst their 13 year old son is secretly jacking off to Avatar porn because they typed in "blue tits" with safe search off (I mean, I'm sure Cameron isn't going to stop the Bill Oddies out there looking up birds online).


My brother proved the point earlier though. Look at how much has been put into bringing the Pirate Bay down, UK ISPs block the site, yet within 10 seconds he found a way around it to prove a point. It shows how futile the attempts were to get rid of it. Rather than actually doing anything to solve the problem, if parents don't want little Sally looking at dicks online, perhaps her parents should be educated in how to parent their kids when letting them browse the internet and also how to set up parental settings on trusted internet security programs. If you want to use this censoring to stop paedophiles, well, good luck with that. Arguably it's more likely to keep the paedos at bay, because if they're ejaculating in front of a computer screen, they lose their sexual drive, which could have be lost elsewhere. Though, I don't think it should be legal (because by doing so you're allowing a market that abuses children and giving it an increase in demand). Blocking it on the other hand, well, I don't think it'd have an effect.


tl;dr their efforts will be futile, the internet is too big to tame with such weak ideas. It'll be an attempt to excuse internet censorship and they'll use it to get their foot in the door to excuse other forms of censorship.



[edit]
I'm sure some will appreciate this. :P
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 01:50:06 PM by Seppuku »
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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, PM announces
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2013, 02:01:27 PM »
tl;dr their efforts will be futile, the internet is too big to tame with such weak ideas. It'll be an attempt to excuse internet censorship and they'll use it to get their foot in the door to excuse other forms of censorship.

It's not just that... like I said, anyone who thinks that going after Google, or Bing, or whoever is going to have the slightest impact on things like child pornography is merely exhibiting ignorance of the technology.  In the earlier days of the Internet, that kind of thing might have worked, but these days, that kind of approach is absurdly obsolete.  Like using trench warfare in World War II: completely ineffective.

People who are doing criminal shit on the Internet are increasingly moving to the Deep Web, especially these days since the Deep Web has become pretty easy to use and doesn't require the kind of technical know-how that it did even as little as, say, two years ago.  Trying to ban online kiddie porn with the approach these guys are espousing is kind of like trying to curb gun violence by banning muskets.  No one uses muskets anymore.  (Well, almost no one, but you know what I mean.)
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Offline neopagan

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, PM announces
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2013, 02:59:36 PM »
Hey, you can have my blunderbuss when you pry it from my cold dead Commodore 64
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Offline Seppuku

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, PM announces
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2013, 03:47:35 PM »
tl;dr their efforts will be futile, the internet is too big to tame with such weak ideas. It'll be an attempt to excuse internet censorship and they'll use it to get their foot in the door to excuse other forms of censorship.

It's not just that... like I said, anyone who thinks that going after Google, or Bing, or whoever is going to have the slightest impact on things like child pornography is merely exhibiting ignorance of the technology.  In the earlier days of the Internet, that kind of thing might have worked, but these days, that kind of approach is absurdly obsolete.  Like using trench warfare in World War II: completely ineffective.

People who are doing criminal s**t on the Internet are increasingly moving to the Deep Web, especially these days since the Deep Web has become pretty easy to use and doesn't require the kind of technical know-how that it did even as little as, say, two years ago.  Trying to ban online kiddie porn with the approach these guys are espousing is kind of like trying to curb gun violence by banning muskets.  No one uses muskets anymore.  (Well, almost no one, but you know what I mean.)

Aye, I suspect those affected will be those who are equally ignorant and those of us who find it extremely annoying to work around should we need to. But yes, you are right, this is a pretty archaic method. One of the downsides to British politics is that the people who are generally at the top have been so sheltered from the real world that they're too out of touch from reality to understand how things really work. Yes, I give kudos to Cameron for putting forward the bill for same sex marriage, the cynic in me would say he did it to win some integrity for future elections, but the optimist suggests that he might not be as bad as other tories. Though frankly, I can't think of a British politician I like or respect or a party I'd vote for. It's a bit of a dilemma. Having said that, I think Nigel Firage has managed to handle himself quite well in debate at least (probably a reason why his party, UKIP, has been growing in popularity), but he's too right wing for me to support him.

Oh and here's an excellent picture of David Cameron (kind of appropriate really, looks like to me he's thinking of cock). ;)

“It is difficult to understand the universe if you only study one planet” - Miyamoto Musashi
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Offline Mooby

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, PM announces
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2013, 04:12:48 PM »
Probably depends on how many of their legiscritters are uninformed enough to believe that such blacklists actually work.  Content filters are comically easy to bypass, especially in a case like this where the content provider has no control over the end user's machine.  It really surprises me how many people there are out there who believe that content on the Internet can be controlled or restricted in any way... haven't any of these people heard of things like the Silk Road?
True, but the way they're setting it up is so that users opt-out of being blocked.  Which means that the people who want the government to leave them the hell alone will be inclined to just opt out and get on the "Please leave me alone" list.  Which means the government will have a list of people who want to be left alone to do nefarious things.

Of course, when the government decides to crack down on illegal activity, where do you think they'll start looking?  The people who want to be left alone are in essence profiling themselves for the government to look over their shoulders in the future.

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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, PM announces
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2013, 05:22:23 PM »
True, but the way they're setting it up is so that users opt-out of being blocked.  Which means that the people who want the government to leave them the hell alone will be inclined to just opt out and get on the "Please leave me alone" list.  Which means the government will have a list of people who want to be left alone to do nefarious things.

The tech-savvy people will know better than to do the "opt-out" thing and will just go straight to the Deep Web.  Of course, that's a pretty small minority of Internet users, so your point is still essentially valid.

Then, too... just because you're using Tor or another anonymous encrypted network, that's still no guarantee of anything.  They can't see what you're doing, but they do know that you're using the service because they can still see the traffic.  Blah.
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Offline Mooby

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, PM announces
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2013, 05:37:32 PM »
Yes, but in the US there's a wonderful rule where your ISP can let you do whatever you want without monitoring you until they're "made aware" of your behavior or directly observe a "red flag" (they don't have to go looking for red flags, though.)[1]

And the rules are basically structured in such a way as to discourage ISPs from actually monitoring what their customers do.  Why would they want to jeopardize me as a customer when they can just close their eyes and accept my money each month?  Unless a third party is actively filing complaints, they don't need to monitor.

That's also why Google gets away with listing torrent sites in its search results.  As long as it uses passive crawlers to provide links, it can claim plausible deniability on the content it provides.  Google does sweep for some stuff voluntarily (attack sites, child porn), but is not required to do this.

Of course, it looks like the UK is going to do the opposite by forcing ISPs to actively keep track of who gets to see what.  Which is really another case of lawmakers not understanding what the Internet is (like SOPA was.)  Oh well; I'm glad I don't live there.

*Waits until next week when the same law is passed in the US*
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Offline Nick

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, PM announces
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2013, 07:20:51 PM »
Will politicians be exempt from this?
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Offline Willie

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, PM announces
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2013, 08:54:59 PM »
Shit, now the GOP will latch onto that and Jobs, Jobs, Jobs will be put on the back burner again.
The back burner would be an improvement. At this point I think it may be languishing in the deep recesses of the refrigerator, probably behind that long forgotten jar of pickle juice with half a gherkin at the bottom.

Offline Seppuku

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, PM announces
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2013, 09:48:18 AM »
I was worried that this might be the step into censorship on a larger scale, if this article is accurate, then my worries were justified.

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-07/27/pornwall

I suspect there will still be ways of circumventing it, but I am actually now a little more concerned if they provide any punishment for those circumventing these walls? The article lists circumvention tools, so it seems obvious the C-man doesn't want me to find a way around his filters, as a responsible adult. Perhaps he'll find a way of getting rid of my paranoia, I think it has been mentioned you can opt out, if true, I am still against it. There already exists tools to help concerned parents (I've used such tools to block sites and terms to prevent my own procrastination when I was a student :P), it is a waste for the government to impose their own measures, not only that but it's just a foot in the door for the government to censor the internet, it wouldn't be the first time.


Another interesting article:
https://www.openrightsgroup.org/blog/2013/sleepwalking-into-censorship

It mentions Nudge Theory, which I think is an accurate description of what Cameron is doing.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 09:50:20 AM by Seppuku »
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Offline Mooby

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, PM announces
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2013, 11:22:58 AM »
^^ And then there will be a database somewhere with a field that shows Seppuku wants access to terrorist web sites.  And this field will never, ever, ever be searched... until the next time someone in the government goes on an anti-terrorism kick.

Basically, any box you untick is an admission of potential guilt.
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Offline Seppuku

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Re: Online pornography to be blocked by default, PM announces
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2013, 12:35:13 PM »
This is exactly what concerns me.

Given I like to write and occassionally write articles online, what if I wanted to research terrorist web sites? It wouldn't be the first time, one of my articles I wrote for Uni in my last year was on the topic of "Freedom of Expression and the Use of Mohammad", it was around the time South Park did their last Mohammad episode and it seemed the right time. There were people making threats and I visited such a site where threats were made so I could have accurate source data for my article. I wouldn't say the site was organising terrorist attacks, but it was in support of them. I guess it would make me look suspicious, granted, this is why internet monitoring worries me - you could become a suspect for looking at content for completely legitimate reasons. For example, my brother surpassing the filter for The Pirate Bay to prove a point, he didn't visit to illegally download stuff, but to show people that filtering isn't that effective.
“It is difficult to understand the universe if you only study one planet” - Miyamoto Musashi
Warning: I occassionally forget to proofread my posts to spot typos or to spot poor editing.