Author Topic: It Could Happen  (Read 174 times)

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Online Nam

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It Could Happen
« on: June 23, 2015, 01:05:55 AM »
Mississippi & Walmart

Quote
JACKSON, Miss. — A top Mississippi lawmaker said Monday that the Confederate battle emblem is offensive and needs to be removed from the state flag. At the same time, Wal-Mart announced it would no longer sell items featuring the "stars and bars" design.

Mississippi House Speaker Philip Gunn became the first top-tier Republican to call for a change in the flag, which has had the Confederate symbol in the upper left corner since Reconstruction.

"We must always remember our past, but that does not mean we must let it define us," Gunn, a leader in his local Baptist church, said in a statement. "As a Christian, I believe our state's flag has become a point of offense that needs to be removed. We need to begin having conversations about changing Mississippi's flag."

Officials in that state and in Tennessee are grappling with whether to retain Old South symbols, even as South Carolina leaders are pushing to remove a Confederate battle flag that flies outside the statehouse there.

Mississippi voters decided by a 2-to-1 margin in 2001 to keep the state flag that has been used since 1894. It features the Confederate battle emblem — a blue X with 13 stars, over a red field.

Republican Gov. Phil Bryant on Monday repeated his long-held position that the state should keep the flag as is.

"A vast majority of Mississippians voted to keep the state's flag, and I don't believe the Mississippi Legislature will act to supersede the will of the people on this issue," Bryant said in a statement.

Democratic Sen. Kenny Wayne Jones of Canton, chairman of the Legislative Black Caucus, said the Confederate emblem is a "symbol of hatred" often associated with racial violence. Jones said the flag represents the power structure's resistance to change during the 1960s and '70s, when civil rights activists were pushing to dismantle segregation and expand voting rights.

"We should be constantly re-examining these types of stereotypes that label our state for what it used to be a long time ago," Jones told The Associated Press.

At the Tennessee Capitol in Nashville, a bust of Nathan Bedford Forrest, a Confederate general and an early Ku Klux Klan leader, has sat in an alcove outside the Senate chamber for decades.

Democratic and Republican leaders are calling for the bust to be removed. Craig Fitzhugh, the state House Democratic leader, said it should go to the archives or a museum and be replaced in the Capitol by a statue of Lois DeBerry, an African-American who became the first female speaker pro tempore of the Tennessee House. Women and minorities are underrepresented in government symbols, Fitzhugh wrote.

"We need to revisit what we have displayed in the Capitol so that it better represents a Tennessee for all of us," he wrote Monday.

Since the 2001 Mississippi election, bills that proposed changing the flag have gained no traction, with legislators saying voters settled the issue.

The massacre of nine worshippers at a black church in South Carolina last week renewed public debate about the Confederate battle flag. The white suspect, Dylann Storm Roof, appeared in photos holding the banner.

Russell Moore, a Mississippi native who serves as president of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention, wrote in his blog Friday that the Confederate flag — including the emblem on the Mississippi state flag — should be retired. He said its connection with the "great evil" of slavery makes it incompatible with Christianity.

"White Christians ought to think about what that flag says to our African-American brothers and sisters in Christ, especially in the aftermath of yet another act of white supremacist terrorism against them," Moore wrote. "The gospel frees us from scrapping for our 'heritage' at the expense of others."

Meanwhile, the world's largest retailer announced it would remove all items featuring the Confederate flag from its store shelves and website.

In a statement, Bentonville, Ark.-based Wal-Mart says its goal is to not offend anyone with the products it offers.

"We have taken steps to remove all items promoting the Confederate flag from our assortment — whether in our stores or on our website," the company said. "We have a process in place to help lead us to the right decisions when it comes to the merchandise we sell. Still, at times, items make their way into our assortment improperly — this is one of those instances."

A search Monday of Wal-Mart's website for Confederate flag merchandise returned no results, though a Mississippi state flag with the battle emblem was on offer.

[bold mine]

On the state flag: I highly doubt it.

To the Walmart thing: they say that as if they didn't know they were doing it. I've seen Confederate merchandise sold in Walmart stores since the 1980s. It's not something that mistakenly got through.

-Nam
Quote from: David Garrett Arnold
there are oceans of words aged in prayer,
against geometric lines, and cloudbeaten skies;
credulous allure—slowly captivated in hearts fair—
trees and flowers bloomed in grace upon one's eyes.

Online Nick

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Re: It Could Happen
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2015, 01:11:37 PM »
It is hard to let go of the symbols of power and dominance over another group of people.  How will the South raise again without their Stars and Bars?
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: It Could Happen
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2015, 04:50:42 PM »
One statement amused me-- the idea that Christianity (or any religion, except maybe the Bahais) is incompatible with racism and slavery. Most religions have been very compatible with racism and slavery over the centuries. KKKlan members who terrorized black communities for decades were not some marginal loner, one weirdo rogue Boo Radley running around in a hood.

They were good upstanding Christians, pastors and respected business community leaders. They marched in their klan outfits in the 4th of July parade.  Lynchings with a family picnic on the church lawn afterwards. And the same god who destroyed entire cities and killed people for nothing (Job's family) or for breaking minor rules (Lot's wife) never once showed up and told them they were wrong.

They read the bible and prayed and went to segregated churches and taught in their Sunday schools, while hating and raping and killing their darker skinned "brothers and sisters".   Some southern white Christians like Dylann Storm Trooper are clearly still pissed off that they lost god's protection that one time, and lost the Civil War.  :P

As for the confederate flag, anyone who displays one has no call to criticize Chicanos displaying the Mexican flag on Cinco de Mayo, or any other group flying a non-US flag in this country. Try flying a British, German, Japanese, Cuban or Iranian flag on a US patriotic holiday, and see how accepting they are. When I lived, briefly, in a region of the south, I did not think that flag was exactly welcoming me to the area. I was the only person in the crowed who booed when the flag went by on a parade float depicting slave masters in plantation garb. I was just expressing northern freedom of speech. It was not appreciated. And I did not stay long. I was also harassed, threatened and called racist names every day by groups of white youths who followed me, slowly, in their cars as I walked home from work.[1]
 1.  They waited for me outside my job, and knew where I lived. I told my white boss and she advised me to move to a different (ie black) part of town, farther away from work. I was trying to be a sustainable hippie vegetarian peacenik, walking everywhere to save the planet. I would have to buy a car. Maybe learn to use a gun? One time the goons tried to break into my apartment-- I found the scratches they gouged into the lock. I quit my job and moved back north. The fear has stayed with me all these years. You could not pay me enough to move south again. I don't know how my blackabilly relatives stand it. :(
« Last Edit: June 23, 2015, 04:56:07 PM by nogodsforme »
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Online Nam

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Re: It Could Happen
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2015, 05:11:42 PM »
Your blackabilly relatives are used to it. It's a daily event for them. It's life, and while they may loathe it they accept it.

Just like all us non-racist whites. It's the way of life, and most of us (not me) just accept it until a moment where we all can stand (minus the racists) together and fight back. That day isn't here yet.

-Nam
Quote from: David Garrett Arnold
there are oceans of words aged in prayer,
against geometric lines, and cloudbeaten skies;
credulous allure—slowly captivated in hearts fair—
trees and flowers bloomed in grace upon one's eyes.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: It Could Happen
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2015, 05:18:34 PM »
I know they are used to it. It still is full of suckage. A well educated southern black guy told me that everything is fine as long as we (blacks) stay on our side of town, and they (whites) stay on their side of town. I asked him which side of town had the library. He did not answer.  :-X
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Online Nam

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Re: It Could Happen
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2015, 05:32:51 PM »
I know they are used to it. It still is full of suckage. A well educated southern black guy told me that everything is fine as long as we (blacks) stay on our side of town, and they (whites) stay on their side of town. I asked him which side of town had the library. He did not answer.  :-X

South is a hard place to live.

I remember a couple of years ago when my washing machine broke, and I had to go into town to a laundry place and while I was washing my clothes a black man (drifter trying to get home) was washing his and his buddies clothes and I tried striking a conversation with him and being a small Southern town where we were he was afraid to. It took an hour to get him to talk to me. I went out to my car and got a CD and put it in his CD player (which could get me in trouble) and at first he looked angry but he calmed down when he heard Ben E. King singing and then we spoke for a couple of hours.

That's the way it is here: blacks sometimes just assume you're racist if you're white in these sort of towns unless you're going into an establishment mainly run by non-whites (convenient stores, bars, restaurants, etc.,) and that's the stigma placed here.

No one knows and no one wants to find out. Everyone is too scared.

When I worked at a chicken factory, my black partner on the line asked certain questions or said certain things to find out if I was racist. That's how "we" find out. 'Cause you don't know. And if you go about it the wrong way, well, run.

It's a hard life when you're not the majority. And white racists here are still the majority.

-Nam
Quote from: David Garrett Arnold
there are oceans of words aged in prayer,
against geometric lines, and cloudbeaten skies;
credulous allure—slowly captivated in hearts fair—
trees and flowers bloomed in grace upon one's eyes.

Online Nick

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Re: It Could Happen
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2015, 05:40:03 PM »
What a way to have to live.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Online Nam

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Re: It Could Happen
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2015, 05:50:49 PM »
What a way to have to live.

My childhood was hard because of race. My friends (elementary, middle, and high school) said racist things and I wasn't racist, and I wouldn't join in with them, and I stopped being their friends and they beat me up for years for being a "nigger lover". Most my friends growing up were mainly blacks, Latino/Hispanic or Asian. I barely had any white friends and the white friends I did have mainly stopped being my friend because they were threatened by the white kids who tormented me.

The lunch rooms (cafeterias) were mainly segregated not by the school but by the kids.

-Nam
Quote from: David Garrett Arnold
there are oceans of words aged in prayer,
against geometric lines, and cloudbeaten skies;
credulous allure—slowly captivated in hearts fair—
trees and flowers bloomed in grace upon one's eyes.

Offline Defiance

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Re: It Could Happen
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2015, 08:24:05 PM »
What a way to have to live.

My childhood was hard because of race. My friends (elementary, middle, and high school) said racist things and I wasn't racist, and I wouldn't join in with them, and I stopped being their friends and they beat me up for years for being a "nigger lover". Most my friends growing up were mainly blacks, Latino/Hispanic or Asian. I barely had any white friends and the white friends I did have mainly stopped being my friend because they were threatened by the white kids who tormented me.

The lunch rooms (cafeterias) were mainly segregated not by the school but by the kids.

-Nam

That "nickname" reminds me of To Kill a Mockingbird.

OT: Flags create division, it seems.

Q: Why are quantum physicists bad lovers? A: Because when they find the position, they can't find the momentum, and when they have the momentum, they can't find the position.

source: http://www.jokes4us.com/miscellaneousjokes/schooljokes/physicsjokes.html

Online Nam

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Re: It Could Happen
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2015, 08:25:56 PM »
It's not the flags, it's the people. Objects are just used to further the goal.

-Nam
Quote from: David Garrett Arnold
there are oceans of words aged in prayer,
against geometric lines, and cloudbeaten skies;
credulous allure—slowly captivated in hearts fair—
trees and flowers bloomed in grace upon one's eyes.

Online Nam

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Re: It Could Happen
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2015, 01:25:25 AM »
State Senator Chris McDaniel of Mississippi says:

Quote
The price we pay to live in a free society is to occasionally be offended. A cultural or historical cleansing of all things potentially offensive will do nothing to alleviate the problems caused by racism. To pretend otherwise is a disservice to serious discourse on the subject.

We must examine our hearts and not resort to placing emotional blame for problems we face on symbols such as a flag. I love all Mississippians, regardless of race or political affiliation. We are a family. But I disagree with those who use political correctness to silence differing viewpoints. I likewise believe it is in poor taste to use the tragic South Carolina massacre to promote a political agenda.

I understand, very well, both sides of the debate. Slavery is our nation's original sin, and government sanctioned discrimination is evil. As a strong proponent of individual rights, I will always defend individuals against the abuses of government and fight for liberty by insisting government's reach remain limited.

However, at the end of the day, political correctness is about power; consequently, its practitioners will never be appeased. They won't stop until dissent is crushed and tolerance of opposing viewpoints is no longer accepted. I will not be a part of such an agenda. The people of Mississippi have already decided this issue, by referendum. I will respect their wishes.

Ain't gonna happen. I also saw that in South Carolina they do not have enough votes to get rid of the Battle flag, and apparently they'll vote next Tuesday on it.

-Nam
Quote from: David Garrett Arnold
there are oceans of words aged in prayer,
against geometric lines, and cloudbeaten skies;
credulous allure—slowly captivated in hearts fair—
trees and flowers bloomed in grace upon one's eyes.

Online Nick

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Re: It Could Happen
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2015, 09:00:49 AM »
Just like with guns.  After time everything goes back to the way it is/was.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Online Nick

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Re: It Could Happen
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2015, 09:03:22 AM »
The only thing that really affects change is $$$$$$$.  If businesses refuse to have corporate offices in SC and such it would alert them to the need for change.  Or a high profile pro sports figures refusing to play in the state.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Online Nam

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Re: It Could Happen
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2015, 01:53:02 PM »
The only thing that really affects change is $$$$$$$.  If businesses refuse to have corporate offices in SC and such it would alert them to the need for change.  Or a high profile pro sports figures refusing to play in the state.

Actually if the South signifies anything it's that they'd rather have their tradition and heritage (mixed with the white supremacy) then to bow down to anyone because of it.

Though Kansas, Oklahoma. And Nebraska aren't technically "Southern" they are controlled by like minded people and they defy everyone, including themselves. Seems that's the road other states want to travel on in the South.

-Nam
Quote from: David Garrett Arnold
there are oceans of words aged in prayer,
against geometric lines, and cloudbeaten skies;
credulous allure—slowly captivated in hearts fair—
trees and flowers bloomed in grace upon one's eyes.

Offline kcrady

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Re: It Could Happen
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2015, 05:30:27 PM »
Ain't gonna happen. I also saw that in South Carolina they do not have enough votes to get rid of the Battle flag, and apparently they'll vote next Tuesday on it.

-Nam

It's a bit remarkable to me that a state can fly a "Battle Flag" that was flown specifically in battle against the United States by a hostile wanna-be nation the state was once part of, and not be in for an actual battle.
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