Author Topic: Justin's Testimonial  (Read 1607 times)

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Offline Justin Obriecht

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Justin's Testimonial
« on: July 18, 2013, 10:27:10 PM »
And now one for myself.

There is only one God who created man and the universe. He loves us all and only wants a loving relationship with each of us.

He created a perfect atmosphere for Adam and Eve and had a perfect relationship with them until they severely damaged that relationship by sinning in the form of disobeying God.

This created a separation from God for all future generations.

In order to restore that relationship God sent His only Son Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins.

On the third day Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to about 500 different people over 40 days.

God's only requirement for restoration and eternal life (as Jesus experienced as the first example and proof of what we can expect) is that we believe that He sent His only Son to die for our sins in our heart of hearts.

In order to give no one an excuse, He gave us the Bible, personal testimonies, our conscience, the obvious proof of creation, and periodically exposing most of us to the Gospel throughout out our lives.

For the people who choose not to believe He will simply respect the decision we made here on Earth and allow us to continue on to hell.



I'm begging each of you from the bottom of my heart to continue searching for truth in this world. Track it down, never stop researching. Keep an open mind to everything until it's proven impossible to you personally. If you do this with an open mind you will end up at the cross as I did.

May the peace of Christ rule in your hearts!
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 09:57:12 AM by screwtape »

Offline viocjit

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Re: Justin's Testimonial
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2013, 02:22:42 PM »
I read some of yours posts and if I understood , you're a born-again Christian.
Therefore you're a creationist.
I have five questions for you :
1.What are yours arguments to refute the evolution theory ?
2.Do you know the existence of many interpolations in the Bible ? (Example [my favorite interpolation] : John 7:53-8:11).
3.Do you know that the Bible is not really a book because this is a selection among many books ? therefore this is rather a library.
4.If you don't believe what say the apocryphas (I'm not speaking about these books than catholics call deuterocanonical books) like Apocalypse of Peter , Gospel of Thomas , Psalm of Salomon etc... Why do you believe what books include in the protestan canon say ?
5.Are you a conspiracy theorist ?

Offline One Above All

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Re: Justin's Testimonial
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2013, 02:25:56 PM »
Are we allowed to debate on the Testimonials board? I want to debunk Justin Obriecht's testimonial, but I can't if it's against the rules.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Justin's Testimonial
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2013, 02:40:16 PM »
Are we allowed to debate on the Testimonials board? I want to debunk Justin Obriecht's testimonial, but I can't if it's against the rules.

No, that's proper.  Lock and load.   :D
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Justin's Testimonial
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2013, 02:43:50 PM »
And now one for myself.

There is only one God who created man and the universe.

How did he do that then? I mean, what's the physics behind it?
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Dante

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Re: Justin's Testimonial
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2013, 03:06:33 PM »
And now one for myself.

There is only one God who created man and the universe. He loves us all and only wants a loving relationship with each of us.

Or send us to hell for eternity. Reeeal loving.

Quote
He created a perfect atmosphere for Adam and Eve

And the serpent.

Quote
and had a perfect relationship with them until they severely damaged that relationship by sinning in the form of disobeying God.

Wait, who created the serpent?

Quote
This created a separation from God for all future generations.

In order to restore that relationship God sent His only Son Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins.

Why did he wait so long to do so? What happened to all the people born between the fall and the crucifixtion? Were they just shit out of luck?

Quote
On the third day Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to about 500 different people over 40 days.

Too bad he didn't appear to anyone who could write it down in public records.

Quote
God's only requirement for restoration and eternal life (as Jesus experienced as the first example and proof of what we can expect) is that we believe that He sent His only Son to die for our sins in our heart of hearts.

Why do you have to wait until death for this miraculous "restoration"? Why aren't you believers restored to perfection while alive?


Quote
In order to give no one an excuse, He gave us the Bible, personal testimonies, our conscience, the obvious proof of creation, and periodically exposing most of us to the Gospel throughout out our lives.

What? Where? I'm not seeing this proof anywhere. Show me.

Quote
For the people who choose not to believe He will simply respect the decision

Because he's so loving, amiright?

But, can you choose to believe in Santa Claus? No, you cannot. And I cannot choose to believe in gods for the same reason.

Quote
we made here on Earth and allow us to continue on to hell.

Wait, what? What happened to loving? Evil, that guy, if you ask me. Makes hisself all invisible, provides zero evidence, and then punishes us for doubting his existance? I guess your definition of "loving relationship" must be just a little different than mine, or is it "opposite day" where you are?

Quote
I'm begging each of you from the bottom of my heart to continue searching for truth in this world. Track it down, never stop researching. Keep an open mind to everything until it's proven impossible to you personally. If you do this with an open mind you will end up at the cross as I did.

Proven impossible? Is it impossible that there is an invisible pink unicorn in my closet? Prove it.

It's nonsense Justin, and nonsensical. There are no gods. To believe otherwise is to be delusional.
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline One Above All

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Re: Justin's Testimonial
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2013, 03:25:03 PM »
No, that's proper.  Lock and load.   :D

Thanks for the info. Don't expect much, though. I'm also in the middle of writing one of my stories.

There is only one God who created man and the universe.

Prove it.
Assuming you can[1], you might want to explain why:
  • About 100% of the universe will kill any human just from existing in the wrong place at any time.
  • Evil exists.
  • That god does not require a creator.
  • That god is named "God".
  • That god is a male.

He loves us all



I can just feel the love. Do me a favor: tell your god to hate us. Maybe then he'll get his shit together and do the right thing.[2]

and only wants a loving relationship with each of us.

Great. Have him call me back. He's several years late on that.
If he wants a loving relationship, what's stopping him? Isn't he omnipotent? Because if he's not, you might as well stop trying to convert me right now. I will not bow down to anything less than what I consider perfect.

He created a perfect atmosphere for Adam and Eve and had a perfect relationship with them until they severely damaged that relationship by sinning in the form of disobeying God.

...And you don't see the problem with that? How does perfect become imperfect? In fact, how does perfect even change? Perfection cannot change, or it will become imperfect. That's what "perfect" means.

This created a separation from God for all future generations.

So an omnipotent god was stopped in his tracks by a magical talking snake (that he created, by the way) who convinced a woman made from a rib to eat an apple from a magical tree? And then said woman convinced the man made from dust, her mate, to eat from that very tree, giving him knowledge of good and evil as well. Afterward, your god got so scared that they would eat from the magical tree of eternal life (that he didn't prohibit them from eating from, if I might add) that he kicked them out of the magical garden after conferring with the other gods (who clearly outrank him). And you don't question any bit of this story? Amazing.

In order to restore that relationship God sent His only Son Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins.

So there is no separation anymore? Then what's keeping your god from appearing to, say... all atheists in the world? Is he not omnipotent?

On the third day Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to about 500 different people over 40 days.

Zombies are old news. People have been scared of zombies since before we had the term.

God's only requirement for restoration and eternal life (as Jesus experienced as the first example and proof of what we can expect) is that we believe that He sent His only Son to die for our sins in our heart of hearts.

So there is a separation? Make up your mind!
Also, why would he give us eternal life, given that he was so scared of Adam and Eve attaining it?

In order to give no one an excuse, He gave us the Bible,

Full of contradictions, plot holes and utterly inconsistent with all available evidence.

personal testimonies,

Useless as evidence. I can probably gather a dozen people who will swear that I'm a god. Does that make it true? No.[3]

our conscience,

Which is a product of evolution, as evidenced by the fact that tons of animals with brains have consciences.

the obvious proof of creation,

Oh? Wanna give us a hint? What's that "obvious proof of creation"?

and periodically exposing most of us to the Gospel throughout out our lives.

I expose all of you to oxygen during all of your lives. Me: 1 Your god: 0

For the people who choose not to believe He will simply respect the decision we made here on Earth and allow us to continue on to hell.

Yes. A rapist also gives their victim the option between being raped and death (possibly followed by rape of their corpse). But they're giving their victims a choice. Definitely.

I'm begging each of you from the bottom of my heart to continue searching for truth in this world. Track it down, never stop researching. Keep an open mind to everything until it's proven impossible to you personally.

I searched for the truth. I have found the truth. The truth is that there are no gods.

If you do this with an open mind you will end up at the cross as I did.

Bullshit. Plain and simple. What you mean by "open mind" is nothing of the sort. You want us to turn off the logic portion of our brains and accept all bullshit that has been shoved down our throats by religious people for millennia.
Would you be convinced if I made the same argument for, say, Islam? If not, why not? Analyze that and you'll see why I think your argument is bullshit.

May the peace of Christ rule in your hearts!

Go fuck yourself with a cactus. That's my response. Your "Christ" is about as peaceful as Hitler.
 1. And note that I will smite you for ignoring the first sentence and responding only to this one.
 2. If you're an atheist, you can probably guess what Justin Obriecht's response to this will be. I know I can.
 3. Although it is true.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2013, 04:29:57 PM by One Above All »
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken/Lucifer/All In One/Orion.

Offline Doubt

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Re: Justin's Testimonial
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2013, 07:43:47 PM »
In order to give no one an excuse, He gave us the Bible, personal testimonies, our conscience, the obvious proof of creation, and periodically exposing most of us to the Gospel throughout out our lives.
A large portion of the Earth's population will never know that the Bible even exists. Do you believe these people are damned for eternity?

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Justin's Testimonial
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2013, 03:30:39 AM »
And now one for myself..........

Justin, I'm begging you from the bottom of my heart to continue searching for truth in this world. Track it down, never stop researching. Keep an open mind to everything until it's proven impossible to you personally. If you do this with an open mind you will end up a Hindu as I did.

Of course, if you can show any actually proof that anything you said is true, that makes demonstrably false any of my Hindu beliefs, then go for it!  Until then, perhaps you will be prepared to admit that a Truth that cannot be demostrated, that can only be accepted as a matter of Faith, can equally be asserted by any religion one cares to name?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline screwtape

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Re: Justin's Testimonial
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2013, 08:59:29 AM »
Go fuck yourself with a cactus.

That's not called for.  Dial it back, please.
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What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Online Mrjason

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Re: Justin's Testimonial
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2013, 10:41:02 AM »
There is only one God who created man and the universe. He loves us all and only wants a loving relationship with each of us.
Which one?

He created a perfect atmosphere for Adam and Eve and had a perfect relationship with them until they severely damaged that relationship by sinning in the form of disobeying God.
What about Lilith?  You know, the 1st wife.

This created a separation from God for all future generations.

Not what the bible says.

In order to restore that relationship God sent His only Son Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins.
Not what the torah says.

On the third day Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to about 500 different people over 40 days.
Not what the Qur’an says.

God's only requirement for restoration and eternal life (as Jesus experienced as the first example and proof of what we can expect) is that we believe that He sent His only Son to die for our sins in our heart of hearts.
How does the resurrection of an allegedly supernatural being bear any relevance to us mortals?

In order to give no one an excuse, He gave us the Bible, personal testimonies, our conscience, the obvious proof of creation, and periodically exposing most of us to the Gospel throughout out our lives.
No he didn’t. People gave us the bible. Where is The Book of God in the bible?

For the people who choose not to believe He will simply respect the decision we made here on Earth and allow us to continue on to hell.
Or just not be real.

I'm begging each of you from the bottom of my heart to continue searching for truth in this world. Track it down, never stop researching. Keep an open mind to everything until it's proven impossible to you personally. If you do this with an open mind you will end up at the cross as I did. 
No need to beg, I do search for the truth and it doesn’t point to religion of any kind.

May the peace of Christ rule in your hearts!
Cheers. May the peace of being a decent human being without having to resort to the carrot and stick of religion rule in your heart.

Online ParkingPlaces

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Re: Justin's Testimonial
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2013, 11:03:45 AM »

I'm begging each of you from the bottom of my heart to continue searching for truth in this world. Track it down, never stop researching. Keep an open mind to everything until it's proven impossible to you personally. If you do this with an open mind you will end up at the cross as I did.


My bold. Justin, your lack of interest in the truth kind of undermines your request that we do the same. Not that we aren't. It's just that we atheists made a decision not to fool ourselves and hence we aren't able to fool ourselves the way you do.

I have a good friend who has, on several occasions, burst into tears in my presence because he is afraid I'll go to hell when I die.

He's a great friend, but that's his problem. And if his begging can't get me to smallerize my mind and think like that, I don't think you'll be able to either. Even if you offer me a discount on a hamburger.
Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Online jaimehlers

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Re: Justin's Testimonial
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2013, 11:56:46 AM »
There is only one God who created man and the universe. He loves us all and only wants a loving relationship with each of us.
Look, no offense, but do you have anything besides the Bible which supports the existence of this god of yours?  Anything at all?  By the way, I don't mean testimonials.  They might be emotionally stirring, but they prove nothing.  Let's say I gave a testimonial about the benefits of believing in extradimensional Guardians, and about how good and righteous they are.  Would you believe me if I didn't offer anything to show that they existed?

Quote from: Justin Obriecht
He created a perfect atmosphere for Adam and Eve and had a perfect relationship with them until they severely damaged that relationship by sinning in the form of disobeying God.
No, what he created was the equivalent of turning a stove on, warning someone who had no experience of the danger not to touch it, and then leaving them unattended in the room with the stove.

Quote from: Justin Obriecht
This created a separation from God for all future generations.
...and then punishing them, and everyone who descended from them for disobedience.  If an adult leaves a child unattended, and the child gets hurt doing something (even something they were warned about), who is to blame?

Quote from: Justin Obriecht
In order to restore that relationship God sent His only Son Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins.
Which, if you believe in the Bible's chronology, was more than 4,000 years later.  Sure took him an awfully long time, don't you think?  How many generations lived and died before this happened?  How many millions, or billions, of humans had to deal with God punishing them for his own failure before God had this bright idea?

Quote from: Justin Obriecht
On the third day Jesus rose from the dead and appeared to about 500 different people over 40 days.
And then vanished forevermore.  Assuming he ever actually appeared before anyone to begin with, since we're dealing with pure hearsay.

Quote from: Justin Obriecht
God's only requirement for restoration and eternal life (as Jesus experienced as the first example and proof of what we can expect) is that we believe that He sent His only Son to die for our sins in our heart of hearts.
If it's that simple, why not set it up with Adam and Eve's children?  Why waste thousands of years, millions of lives?

Quote from: Justin Obriecht
In order to give no one an excuse, He gave us the Bible, personal testimonies, our conscience, the obvious proof of creation, and periodically exposing most of us to the Gospel throughout out our lives.
The Bible - written by humans.  Personal testimonies - told by humans.  The conscience - which is much more easily explained as a byproduct of our evolution as humans.  The "obvious proof of creation" - which falls apart once you examine it with a critical mind.  And "periodic exposure to the Gospel" - told by humans.  So we have a bunch of stuff that humans do or did, and we have a couple things which may (or more likely may not be) evidence of this god of yours.

I think you're going to have to do a bit better than that.

Quote from: Justin Obriecht
For the people who choose not to believe He will simply respect the decision we made here on Earth and allow us to continue on to hell.
How convenient for him to just let people 'continue' on to a place which he made and which he, according to you, condemned humanity to in the first place, for something he was responsible for.  Unless, of course, they throw themselves on his mercy by believing the things he says to believe.  So, how is this different than divine terrorism?

Quote from: Justin Obriecht
I'm begging each of you from the bottom of my heart to continue searching for truth in this world. Track it down, never stop researching. Keep an open mind to everything until it's proven impossible to you personally. If you do this with an open mind you will end up at the cross as I did.
You know what the problem with keeping an open mind is?  You never know what kind of gunk might end up inside.  There's a reason we use filters on things, and our minds should be no exception.

By the way, a lot of the atheists here were fervent, devout believers at one point in their lives.  They were already "at the cross", yet when their faith became shaky your god did nothing about it.

Quote from: Justin Obriecht
May the peace of Christ rule in your hearts!
I realize you probably meant this in a good way, but to many atheists, this is an insult.  It's basically asking them to blind themselves (and for many, blind themselves again) in ignorant religious beliefs for the illusion of peace.

This peace you talk about comes when someone is satisfied with what they believe.  Believing in a specific deity is not a requirement.

Offline Zankuu

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Re: Justin's Testimonial
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2013, 01:40:56 PM »
Hey again, Justin.

There is only one God who created man and the universe. He loves us all and only wants a loving relationship with each of us.

This sounded good to me back when I was a Christian and it still sounds good today. A pure and holy entity that loves me unconditionally and wants to bless me with immortality? I signed up. Well, my parents signed me up with Sunday school then I signed up when I was old enough to comprehend baptism, the Trinity, hell and the whole nine yards. I put in a lot of years and a lot of effort into having a personal relationship with that god. I never heard Jesus though. He never spoke to me. I was never “called” to be baptized like my peers. But I eventually conformed, internalizing the norms of my small church community.

It’s been 14 years since then and I still haven’t heard from Jesus. I haven’t felt God’s presence. I haven’t been touched or moved by the Holy Spirit. According to people that share your belief Justin, God witnessed my fall from faith. He was there while I sat in church beginning to doubt his existence. He was there while I researched the origin of the Abrahamic religions, while I learned about the natural sciences, while I studied philosophy.

Complete and total absence. The Abrahamic god has visited me as many times as Enlil, Osiris, Odin, Baal, Marduk, Quetzalcoatl, and my Native American spirit animal- zero.

And when you say that your god wants a loving relationship with each of us, don’t you mean he wants a loving relationship only with people exposed to Christianity? The Christian god’s influence mainly operates in the Americas, Europe, Russia and South Africa. A poll would show that people in these densely populated Christian geographies feel and hear the Christian god. But in Hindu societies? They feel Vishnu. In Islamic societies? They feel Allah. In godless Amazonian tribes? They feel…no presence of a deity. I would be more impressed if Yahweh took some initiative and gathered followers such as those Amazonian tribes without word of mouth and other Spanish Inquisition-esque ways. If he really wanted a relationship with them surely he would reveal himself or “speak to their hearts” rather than let some missionaries take years trying to persuade them while the tribes elders are slowly dying off without knowing Jesus H. But I’m trailing off…

Isn’t it funny how the god of a person’s parents/leaders/peers has a high correlation to that same god being felt within their own heart?

He created a perfect atmosphere for Adam and Eve and had a perfect relationship with them until they severely damaged that relationship by sinning in the form of disobeying God.

This created a separation from God for all future generations.

That just isn’t love, Justin. At least not to me. I’m going to shorthand an analogy and make screwtape cringe here, but:

Before leaving the house one day, a loving man tells his two dogs not to chew his footwear. “No,” he sternly says while pointing at his fluffy slippers. He decides to leave the slippers on the floor within reach of the dogs. He then leaves the dogs alone for a few hours and when he returns finds his slippers torn to shreds. He proceeds to beat the dogs. One year later his female dog has a litter of pups. He beats them for what their parents did. And for the rest of the man’s life, he beats each new generation of offspring because of the original transgression.

This analogy isn’t perfect of course. It doesn’t quite grasp just how neglectful and careless Yahweh was, nor the level of control Yahweh had over the situation. And, depending on the Christian, if Yahweh has total omniscience then this throws one hell of a wrench into the story and free will must be examined.

God's only requirement for restoration and eternal life (as Jesus experienced as the first example and proof of what we can expect) is that we believe that He sent His only Son to die for our sins in our heart of hearts.

Ah, blood sacrifice. A little dated and barbaric, don't you think? But really- why would this matter? Why the need for belief? If what God has is actual altruistic love for us, we wouldn’t need to reciprocate and give him something like worship or belief. If I really loved someone and wanted to save another person’s life I wouldn’t demand something in return. I would just save them. Yahweh’s love for us is more like a mafia boss’ love: He’s got an offer we can’t refuse.

In order to give no one an excuse, He gave us the Bible, personal testimonies, our conscience, the obvious proof of creation, and periodically exposing most of us to the Gospel throughout out our lives.

This isn’t true. There are people that have lived and died on this earth that never had an opportunity to read the Bible, or heard personal testimonies, or even had the luxury to entertain philosophical questions. Don’t let your cushy First World life continue to cast the illusion that everyone will hear about a 2000 year old prophet from the Middle East. Or for that matter would even care about a 2000 year old prophet when their main concerns are along the lines of "Will I drink clean water today?" or "Will I be able to feed my child?"
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline mrbiscoop

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Re: Justin's Testimonial
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2013, 08:43:22 PM »
   The overwhelming vast majority of people that think like this have so insulated themselves with bullshit and willful ignorance as to be lost, totally lost to the real world. And they vote. We're doomed.



[edit: small typo corrected GB]
« Last Edit: July 27, 2013, 08:48:00 AM by Graybeard »
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
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Offline Avascar

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Re: Justin's Testimonial
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2013, 12:20:50 AM »
You know, I find christians here standing their ground in atheist territory awaiting the same debates an interesting thing.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Justin's Testimonial
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2013, 09:02:42 AM »
You know, I find christians here standing their ground in atheist territory awaiting the same debates an interesting thing.
I wouldn't mind if they did stand their ground but, from what I can see, Justin Obriecht, the OP just did a drive-by posting.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline neopagan

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Re: Justin's Testimonial
« Reply #17 on: August 18, 2013, 09:18:04 AM »
Justin mistook being uninterested in the god of his upbringing with "strict atheism." Therefore, when he did his driveby (or drive thru for a burger joint owner), he expected us all to swoon to his brilliant unpacking of his quaint jeezus story. You know, even in my many years as a believer, I would have wondered about him with that whole seeing the red light (jeezus?!?!) speaking to him yarn... what nonsense. 
Wait a minute, my VCR is flashing "6:66" and I think the Omen is speaking to me... nevermind
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan