Author Topic: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?  (Read 17385 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline OldChurchGuy

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1480
  • Darwins +97/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • One of those theists who enjoys exchanging ideas
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #493 on: January 15, 2014, 07:28:46 AM »
As a fellow theist, I understand the frustration some are having with you and Jesuis.  Having followed this thread, I am also at a loss to proclaim I understand the emphasis being placed on frequency or the significance of frequency. 

I have concluded a definition of frequency as the term is being used in this thread is not possible.  Similar to defining Heaven. 

Perhaps you or Jesuis or both would be so kind as to provide an example of a successful frequency between two people? 

Would you also provide an example of a successful frequency between a person and God? 

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
The theory of Everything is frequency based.  Theists would say they knew that already. "In the beginning was the Word(Frequency) and the word was with God(frequency) and the word was God (Thus all is Frequency)"
Scientists tell us that Our body mechanism and everything else is frequency based. Hence our consciousness and persona are frequencies if we are to believe the scientists or the theists.

If I am understanding these examples correctly, whenever a person has an experience with God (Moses at the burning bush, for example) then the person and God are on the same frequency.  Correct? 

Hoping I am not dragging down the intellectual level of this conversation with more questions I remain,

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

Online Graybeard

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6557
  • Darwins +503/-17
  • Gender: Male
  • Is this going somewhere?
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #494 on: January 15, 2014, 07:40:34 AM »
I did not create the ToE scientists did. I am just discussing that relative to the Theists. Why are you calling me nuts??

Possibly because the ToE refers to properties of physical entities, and you're trying to extend it to hypothetical Imaginary Friends.  That's kind of like looking through the long-distance codes in the phone book so you can call up Harry Potter, Ned Stark and Batman.
When the living physical matter "the body" "Start stuff" has that enlivening frequency "life" in it removed it dies.
I see your problem. You are obsessed with something only you know as “frequencies.” You interpret all things through “frequencies”, yet no one else knows anything about these “frequencies”.

You are using the word “frequencies” in the same way that people use the word “God”: one word that explains everything that we do not know.

More to the point, you do not know exactly what “frequencies” are either. You seem to be aware that there are “vibrations” in elemental particles and thus conclude that if they are moving, and the things that have these “frequencies” are conscious, then “frequencies” and life/consciousness are equal. From this you conclude that “frequency” is life/consciousness[1].

Picking up a rock will tell you this is not so. The subatomic particles in a rock are still moving. The calcium atom in a piece of chalk is no different from the calcium atom in your bones.

Quote
I want to know what it is that that I am looking at. Looking being a frequency.
Looking is not a “frequency”. The ancient Greeks had an idea that sight was caused by “frequencies” being projected from the eyes and then the eyes “felt” things: rather like “long-distance fingers” – thus a person who was blind, failed to send out “frequencies” and someone who was short-sighted had weak “frequencies”.

This has been shown to be absolutely wrong.

Quote
I am wanting to know what that frequency is or what that energy of consciousness is?
The problem you have is that you are looking for something that exists only in your mind.

You state things with such certainty. You imagine a theory and then adapt everything to fit that theory. This is a sign of delusion. You have no evidence of what you think at all.

It may be that you are desperately trying to explain something. But the greatest rule of all intelligence is “Just because you do not know the real answer, you cannot go inventing some wild story.”
Quote
It obviously keeps the body matter alive.
Why is it “obvious”? It isn’t “obvious” to me that “frequencies” do anything.

Quote
None of that is imaginery it is real at the level of the senses.
No. You are wrong. The senses are not always a good guide. You have not said what you mean by “senses”. A thing can be imaginary and yet appear very real to the senses.

You will be aware that, in times past, people believed that bad smells caused malaria. To them, it was “obvious” as their senses told them this.
 1. The TOE claims all matter is vibrating or better yet any thing made of matter is not still or dead but is vibrating and filled with energy. When there is life in that matter it is alive and active, when there is no life it is dead and dormant.
RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. Ambrose Bierce

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #495 on: January 15, 2014, 07:41:11 AM »
Are you imagining again don't you think you should do a poll?
You seem to love that sort of frequency a lot. Is that what fuels the energy of your belief in atheism?

Yep, totally.

I mean, in terms of "frequency" we all know that atheists just ignore truthful theist answers, so screw polls, Daemonettes for school.
And moralists who talk about corruption being influenced by negative atheism - must all be lies.
 
I know there is a law in matter that says "to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". I have no papers to provide proof of this. I did not write it so I cannot give it. But the scientists who stand by it - say that it is true.
 
Since our bodies are made of matter. Then according to the scientists the daemonettes will reap what they have sown in theist parlance. Damning them to a cycle of sowing and reaping cyclic or what?

IMHO there are consequences for all our actions - they might not be seen to happen immediately but I suspect time has something to do with it. The physical law demands that this law of action and reaction observed by the perpetrator be accounted for irrespective of the humanity that observes it. According to scientists - it will be carried out for the exact action. A pound of flesh Sir Shylock nothing more, not one once more or less. Makes me think more about what I do. These scientists are very wise people don't you think? Bordering on theism to some extent.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Angus and Alexis

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1487
  • Darwins +71/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • Residential Tulpamancer.
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #496 on: January 15, 2014, 07:56:58 AM »
And moralists who talk about corruption being influenced by negative atheism - must all be lies.

Nah, everything evil comes from atheists, our frequency is 666 hertz.

I know there is a law in matter that says "to every action there is an equal and opposite reaction". I have no papers to provide proof of this. I did not write it so I cannot give it. But the scientists who stand by it - say that it is true.

I know right?
I believe scientists have a law of matter that states everything orange must taste like oranges, i have no proof of this, nor will i give you any.
But you must believe me, because i said so.

Since our bodies are made of matter. Then according to the scientists the daemonettes will reap what they have sown in theist parlance. Damning them to a cycle of sowing and reaping cyclic or what?

Nah, Daemonettes just want to impale you with their claws, thus getting a orgasm, making them want to impale more people.
That, or they just want to rape people, the Codex's are always changing.

While we are at it, i believe scientists have a law of physics stating tyranids are real, but are invisible and cannot interfere with the physical realm, although, i am still not going to give you my sources.

IMHO there are consequences for all our actions - they might not be seen to happen immediately but I suspect time has something to do with it. The physical law demands that this law of action and reaction observed by the perpetrator be accounted for irrespective of the humanity that observes it. According to scientists - it will be carried out for the exact action. A pound of flesh Sir Shylock nothing more, not one once more or less. Makes me think more about what I do. These scientists are very wise people don't you think? Bordering on theism to some extent.

Gee whiz, maybe because theists CAN be scientists?
The two are not magically mutually exclusive.
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #497 on: January 15, 2014, 08:00:16 AM »
As a fellow theist, I understand the frustration some are having with you and Jesuis.  Having followed this thread, I am also at a loss to proclaim I understand the emphasis being placed on frequency or the significance of frequency. 

I have concluded a definition of frequency as the term is being used in this thread is not possible.  Similar to defining Heaven. 

Perhaps you or Jesuis or both would be so kind as to provide an example of a successful frequency between two people? 

Would you also provide an example of a successful frequency between a person and God? 

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
The theory of Everything is frequency based.  Theists would say they knew that already. "In the beginning was the Word(Frequency) and the word was with God(frequency) and the word was God (Thus all is Frequency)"
Scientists tell us that Our body mechanism and everything else is frequency based. Hence our consciousness and persona are frequencies if we are to believe the scientists or the theists.

If I am understanding these examples correctly, whenever a person has an experience with God (Moses at the burning bush, for example) then the person and God are on the same frequency.  Correct? 

Hoping I am not dragging down the intellectual level of this conversation with more questions I remain,

OldChurchGuy
I am not so sure about that burning bush are you? - Moses seemed to relate to Him all over the place and there was no burning bush. Could be an expression for something or maybe nothing. Experience makes me wonder of the frequency of sight(Seeing light) or of sound(hearing the voice) But that could be all delusional since scientists say nothing we see and hear is real. So what is experience or what experiences experience? Is it a frequency relating to another frequency where both frequencies being conscious at some level beyond sight and sound?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 10:00:45 AM by Jesuis »
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline OldChurchGuy

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1480
  • Darwins +97/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • One of those theists who enjoys exchanging ideas
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #498 on: January 15, 2014, 08:16:40 AM »
As a fellow theist, I understand the frustration some are having with you and Jesuis.  Having followed this thread, I am also at a loss to proclaim I understand the emphasis being placed on frequency or the significance of frequency. 

I have concluded a definition of frequency as the term is being used in this thread is not possible.  Similar to defining Heaven. 

Perhaps you or Jesuis or both would be so kind as to provide an example of a successful frequency between two people? 

Would you also provide an example of a successful frequency between a person and God? 

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
The theory of Everything is frequency based.  Theists would say they knew that already. "In the beginning was the Word(Frequency) and the word was with God(frequency) and the word was God (Thus all is Frequency)"
Scientists tell us that Our body mechanism and everything else is frequency based. Hence our consciousness and persona are frequencies if we are to believe the scientists or the theists.

If I am understanding these examples correctly, whenever a person has an experience with God (Moses at the burning bush, for example) then the person and God are on the same frequency.  Correct? 

Hoping I am not dragging down the intellectual level of this conversation with more questions I remain,

OldChurchGuy
I am not so sure about that burning bush are you? - Moses seemed to relate to him all over the place and there was no burning bush. Could be an expression for something or maybe nothing. Experience makes me wonder of the frequency of sight(Seeing light) of sound(hearing the voice) But that could be all delusional since scientists say nothing we see and hear is real. So what is experience or what experiences? Is it a frequency relating to a frequency both frequencies conscious at some level beyond sight and sound

Is this last sentence supposed to end with a period or a question mark?

Whether I am certain about the burning bush and Moses is irrelevant since it was presented as an example.  Going back to the question which I do not believe you answered,  whenever a person has an experience with God then the person and God are on the same frequency.  Correct?

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

Offline Hatter23

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3880
  • Darwins +257/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • Doesn't believe in one more god than you
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #499 on: January 15, 2014, 08:18:17 AM »

I am not here to give you links. Nor provide you with scientific papers. Science demands we look at the evidence.

 

The links we asking are to evidence and scientific papers would be evidence. Gosh, but you are not here to do these things....yet you see no problems with this.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Hatter23

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3880
  • Darwins +257/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • Doesn't believe in one more god than you
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #500 on: January 15, 2014, 08:29:15 AM »
I genuinely have no idea what Jesuis is seeking here.  Do you?
I could answer that. I want to know what you believe and if I could come to believe it too.

A nice amputee being healed, by prayer, here in the modern documented and verified world would do wonders in that department. I, however, see you as indistinguishable from a store front medium, who tries to say vague and wise sounding things, but is incapable of doing anything that would demonstrate those claims as factual.
You actually do not see me doing anything of the sort

Yes, actually I do. You are now claiming that you can read my mind.

 

 but we do know imaginations do play tricks on the individuals and their beliefs. Could the only factual thing you make a claim for be your imagination and its ESP frequency wherein lies a lot of spagetti monsters and pink unicorns?

I find this whole 'could be' all my senses lying to me thing just philowant. A lot of Philowank crap that does not help understanding the real world in the slightest.


Can one learn something of value from someone who has no values to share?

Yes. It is the basic idea of skeptisim is that falsehoods stand between you and your understanding of the world. Every falsehood removed is one step closer to understanding things correctly.


An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12217
  • Darwins +267/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #501 on: January 15, 2014, 09:34:15 AM »
Jesuis, am I and others to understand that when you use the word "frequency", you do not actually mean "frequency"?  If so, then why mislead?

Seriously.  A general range in which these frequencies fall would work.  Frequency refers to repetitions per a unit of time, in the case of Hertz that's per second.  If the frequency is too slow for that, then feel free to indicate the inverse frequency.

About this "frequency" thing...Jesuis, what is an example of the frequency you're talking about?  Please give your answer in Hertz units.

EDIT:  I just realized that this is a great example of the thread's title question, isn't it?
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 09:42:19 AM by Azdgari »
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline Hatter23

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3880
  • Darwins +257/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • Doesn't believe in one more god than you
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #502 on: January 15, 2014, 09:53:59 AM »

I have a feeling the atheists don't care about our answers.

There's a good reason for that. They are crap. If they weren't crap, we might care.


I do not think answers provided are crap. Either you understand them or you don't.

Or I may understand that they are gibberish, and therefore crap.

A child may talk to you about the tooth fairy for a reason but crap it is not.

It may be sweet, and innocent, but it is still just childish crap.


But on the other hand your resonating frequency might be a reason for your belief system.

"Or it might be that I cannot pick up on the Psychic Vibrations and cannot see the spirit world" said the storefront psychic.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2014, 10:14:32 AM by Hatter23 »
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Online jdawg70

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1906
  • Darwins +339/-7
  • Ex-rosary squad
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #503 on: January 15, 2014, 10:01:33 AM »

I have a feeling the atheists don't care about our answers.

There's a good reason for that. They are crap. If they weren't crap, we might care.


I do not think answers provided are crap. Either you understand them or you don't.

Or I may understand that they are gibberish, and therefore crap.

A child may talk to you about the tooth fairy for a reason but crap it is not.

It may be sweet, and innocent, but it is still just childish crap.


But on the other hand your resonating frequency might be a reason for your belief system.

"Or it might be that I cannot pick up on the Psychic Vibrations and cannot see the spirit world" said the storefront psychic.

Hatter23, you've got some quoting weirdness.  Some of what you have above attributed to skeptic54768 are actually from Jesuis.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #504 on: January 15, 2014, 10:14:54 AM »
As a fellow theist, I understand the frustration some are having with you and Jesuis.  Having followed this thread, I am also at a loss to proclaim I understand the emphasis being placed on frequency or the significance of frequency. 

I have concluded a definition of frequency as the term is being used in this thread is not possible.  Similar to defining Heaven. 

Perhaps you or Jesuis or both would be so kind as to provide an example of a successful frequency between two people? 

Would you also provide an example of a successful frequency between a person and God? 

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
The theory of Everything is frequency based.  Theists would say they knew that already. "In the beginning was the Word(Frequency) and the word was with God(frequency) and the word was God (Thus all is Frequency)"
Scientists tell us that Our body mechanism and everything else is frequency based. Hence our consciousness and persona are frequencies if we are to believe the scientists or the theists.

If I am understanding these examples correctly, whenever a person has an experience with God (Moses at the burning bush, for example) then the person and God are on the same frequency.  Correct? 

Hoping I am not dragging down the intellectual level of this conversation with more questions I remain,

OldChurchGuy
I am not so sure about that burning bush are you? - Moses seemed to relate to him all over the place and there was no burning bush. Could be an expression for something or maybe nothing. Experience makes me wonder of the frequency of sight(Seeing light) of sound(hearing the voice) But that could be all delusional since scientists say nothing we see and hear is real. So what is experience or what experiences? Is it a frequency relating to a frequency both frequencies conscious at some level beyond sight and sound

Is this last sentence supposed to end with a period or a question mark?

Whether I am certain about the burning bush and Moses is irrelevant since it was presented as an example.  Going back to the question which I do not believe you answered,  whenever a person has an experience with God then the person and God are on the same frequency.  Correct?

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
Fixed it.
I would have thought "If" you knew God you would not have to be wondering what or where He is as Moses seemed to be doing according to movie I have seen. Something about Moses makes me think he does not quite resonate with God all of the time. Whereby with Jesus in movie I have seen seems to have much more of a connection and knew another maybe a Higher God beyond the laws for want of a better word. Moses knowing a God of laws and Jesus knowing a God of forgiveness to those laws. Two frequencies of different persona of Gods battling for our human attention.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Hatter23

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3880
  • Darwins +257/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • Doesn't believe in one more god than you
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #505 on: January 15, 2014, 10:15:30 AM »

Hatter23, you've got some quoting weirdness.  Some of what you have above attributed to skeptic54768 are actually from Jesuis.

fixed
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Hatter23

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3880
  • Darwins +257/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • Doesn't believe in one more god than you
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #506 on: January 15, 2014, 10:24:43 AM »

I am told atheism is a broad brush as well. There's nihilistic atheists, and not nihilistic atheists. There's murdering atheists and non-murdering atheists. There's depressed atheists who think death is better than life. Philosophical differences between atheists. Which atheist is right?


The ones who state there is no objective evidence for a god, and therefore no logical reason to believe in a god, i.e. All of them ON THE SUBJECT.

Just as you are a theist who does not belive that your shoes fly around the room when we are asleep and there are no recording devices present. And I am an atheist who does not belive that your shoes fly around the room when we are asleep and there are no recording devices present.

We are both correct on our Aflyingshoeism.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Online jdawg70

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1906
  • Darwins +339/-7
  • Ex-rosary squad
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #507 on: January 15, 2014, 10:26:13 AM »
Fixed it.
I would have thought "If" you knew God you would not have to be wondering what or where He is as Moses seemed to be doing according to movie I have seen. Something about Moses makes me think he does not quite resonate with God all of the time. Whereby with Jesus in movie I have seen seems to have much more of a connection and knew another maybe a Higher God beyond the laws for want of a better word. Moses knowing a God of laws and Jesus knowing a God of forgiveness to those laws. Two frequencies of different persona of Gods battling for our human attention.

Two things:
1) I once saw a movie where - I sh*t you not - where Jesus gets married to Mary Magdalene.
2) It should be unabashedly clear to you at this point that no one understands what you mean when you use the word 'frequency'.  You have got to expend some effort making your use of the word understandable.

Responding to Azdgari may help:

Jesuis, am I and others to understand that when you use the word "frequency", you do not actually mean "frequency"?  If so, then why mislead?

Seriously.  A general range in which these frequencies fall would work.  Frequency refers to repetitions per a unit of time, in the case of Hertz that's per second.  If the frequency is too slow for that, then feel free to indicate the inverse frequency.

About this "frequency" thing...Jesuis, what is an example of the frequency you're talking about?  Please give your answer in Hertz units.

EDIT:  I just realized that this is a great example of the thread's title question, isn't it?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline Hatter23

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3880
  • Darwins +257/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • Doesn't believe in one more god than you
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #508 on: January 15, 2014, 10:28:39 AM »
1) I once saw a movie where - I sh*t you not - where Jesus gets married to Mary Magdalene.

Last temptation of Christ. That was the last temptation, the he gets married and settles down for a normal human life rather than die on the cross.

An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #509 on: January 15, 2014, 10:30:31 AM »
Or I may understand that they are gibberish, and therefore crap.
Yes but your intellect is more fine tuned if that is the case and a knee jerk reaction would not be the way forward. Psychology dictates that the more intelligent have patience for the responder to learn if you cared because you have a brain and perhaps if more fine tuned than the other. Your knee jerk reaction would dictate the future event to provide a Positive or negative outcome. For instance I have no respect for the one who see that saying another is talking out of his ass as anything but a troll with power. Others may think this is leadership and wisdom. I would not learn anything from such a person for he lacks the humanity to see where he can pass on knowledge if he so possesses it that he wants to pass on. For me don't waste your time. We do not gel so forget it. Where there is no peace their is cognitive dissonance and that fuels wars hatred etc. Science is about truth not ego crap.

It may be sweet, and innocent, but it is still just childish crap.
No one wants to kill off a childs sweet and innocent awareness by telling them they are crap unless that was their upbringing. Psychology 101

"Or it might be that I cannot pick up on the Psychic Vibrations and cannot see the spirit world" said the storefront psychic.
Que?
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Online jdawg70

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1906
  • Darwins +339/-7
  • Ex-rosary squad
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #510 on: January 15, 2014, 10:31:28 AM »
1) I once saw a movie where - I sh*t you not - where Jesus gets married to Mary Magdalene.

Last temptation of Christ. That was the last temptation, the he gets married and settles down for a normal human life rather than die on the cross.

Willam DeFoe at this finest!
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline Angus and Alexis

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1487
  • Darwins +71/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • Residential Tulpamancer.
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #511 on: January 15, 2014, 10:32:40 AM »
No one wants to kill off a childs sweet and innocent awareness by telling them they are crap unless that was their upbringing. Psychology 101

Sure we do, just because your frequency does not match ours does not make him wrong.
Bullshittery 101.
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Online 12 Monkeys

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4557
  • Darwins +103/-11
  • Gender: Male
  • Dii hau dang ijii
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #512 on: January 15, 2014, 10:35:51 AM »
Does this frequency thing work for other religions for their gods?....or like skeptic says ....they are on a demons frequency?
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline Angus and Alexis

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1487
  • Darwins +71/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • Residential Tulpamancer.
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #513 on: January 15, 2014, 10:37:30 AM »
Does this frequency thing work for other religions for their gods?....or like skeptic says ....they are on a demons frequency?

Apparently EVERYTHING is a frequency.

But for some reason, only the christian god has the frequency to be god.
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Online jdawg70

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1906
  • Darwins +339/-7
  • Ex-rosary squad
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #514 on: January 15, 2014, 10:43:16 AM »
Yes but your intellect is more fine tuned if that is the case and a knee jerk reaction would not be the way forward. Psychology dictates that the more intelligent have patience for the responder to learn if you cared because you have a brain and perhaps if more fine tuned than the other. Your knee jerk reaction would dictate the future event to provide a Positive or negative outcome.
Or it's pragmatic to recognize crap when it's there.  To not dismiss it is to fall victim to believing any and all bulls**t.  Remember your lesson from when I put together a random assembly of words to you.  You didn't recognize it as crap - you pretended to understand something that was inherently not understandable.

Does not understanding something necessarily mean that it is false?  Of course not.  But pretending to understand something just because it sounds profound is dishonest.  In some cases, dangerously so.

Quote
For instance I have no respect for the one who see that saying another is talking out of his ass as anything but a troll with power. Others may think this is leadership and wisdom.
And still others would view it as an observation using 'big boy words' that may or may not be true.

Quote
I would not learn anything from such a person for he lacks the humanity to see where he can pass on knowledge if he so possesses it that he wants to pass on. For me don't waste your time. We do not gel so forget it. Where there is no peace their is cognitive dissonance and that fuels wars hatred etc. Science is about truth not ego crap.
It is even more difficult to learn anything from a person who has no interest in establishing a common understanding of words for purposes of communication.  Science isn't about big words but the content behind them.  Perhaps saying 'talking out of your ass' is somewhat rude but at least it is understandable.

Quote
It may be sweet, and innocent, but it is still just childish crap.
No one wants to kill off a childs sweet and innocent awareness by telling them they are crap unless that was their upbringing. Psychology 101
Your response is unrelated to what Hatter23 is saying.  I see that it uses the same words, but the content is different.

Quote
"Or it might be that I cannot pick up on the Psychic Vibrations and cannot see the spirit world" said the storefront psychic.
Que?
It's a jab at you because you are so adamant about not helping us understand what the hell you mean by 'frequency'.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #515 on: January 15, 2014, 10:56:20 AM »
I genuinely have no idea what Jesuis is seeking here.  Do you?
I could answer that. I want to know what you believe and if I could come to believe it too.

A nice amputee being healed, by prayer, here in the modern documented and verified world would do wonders in that department. I, however, see you as indistinguishable from a store front medium, who tries to say vague and wise sounding things, but is incapable of doing anything that would demonstrate those claims as factual.
You actually do not see me doing anything of the sort

Yes, actually I do. You are now claiming that you can read my mind.

 

 but we do know imaginations do play tricks on the individuals and their beliefs. Could the only factual thing you make a claim for be your imagination and its ESP frequency wherein lies a lot of spagetti monsters and pink unicorns?

I find this whole 'could be' all my senses lying to me thing just philowant. A lot of Philowank crap that does not help understanding the real world in the slightest.


Can one learn something of value from someone who has no values to share?

Yes. It is the basic idea of skeptisim is that falsehoods stand between you and your understanding of the world. Every falsehood removed is one step closer to understanding things correctly.
If life is not a frequency or an energy as you claim that it is not - then you could stop me and tell me exactly what it is but you have not which leads me to think you do not know and so all I am getting is bullcrap for want of a better word at your level of understanding being as obnoxious as you - but you do not know that I know this is all about your Philowank as you have got nothing.
I said know I am alive and at some point will no longer be. I want to know who or what am I? Surely if you know this truth - if my consciousness meets to form a single I-ness to form my persona then you know what my mass is since you are so sure the theists are wrong. So what am I? If not frequency or energy as I was leaning towards then what? This answer is what I am looking for so I can tell the theists go stuff it up your God's ass. But my persona cannot seem to get to this wisdom of your persona. Why is that? Do you eat something or take something that makes you so right and theists so wrong yet cannot tell me who or what I am? Are you delusional or are the theists? Someone has to be! I am leaning towards you guys so full of it - phillowank!
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #516 on: January 15, 2014, 10:59:50 AM »
Yes but your intellect is more fine tuned if that is the case and a knee jerk reaction would not be the way forward. Psychology dictates that the more intelligent have patience for the responder to learn if you cared because you have a brain and perhaps if more fine tuned than the other. Your knee jerk reaction would dictate the future event to provide a Positive or negative outcome.
Or it's pragmatic to recognize crap when it's there.  To not dismiss it is to fall victim to believing any and all bulls**t.  Remember your lesson from when I put together a random assembly of words to you.  You didn't recognize it as crap - you pretended to understand something that was inherently not understandable.

Does not understanding something necessarily mean that it is false?  Of course not.  But pretending to understand something just because it sounds profound is dishonest.  In some cases, dangerously so.

Quote
For instance I have no respect for the one who see that saying another is talking out of his ass as anything but a troll with power. Others may think this is leadership and wisdom.
And still others would view it as an observation using 'big boy words' that may or may not be true.

Quote
I would not learn anything from such a person for he lacks the humanity to see where he can pass on knowledge if he so possesses it that he wants to pass on. For me don't waste your time. We do not gel so forget it. Where there is no peace their is cognitive dissonance and that fuels wars hatred etc. Science is about truth not ego crap.
It is even more difficult to learn anything from a person who has no interest in establishing a common understanding of words for purposes of communication.  Science isn't about big words but the content behind them.  Perhaps saying 'talking out of your ass' is somewhat rude but at least it is understandable.

Quote
It may be sweet, and innocent, but it is still just childish crap.
No one wants to kill off a childs sweet and innocent awareness by telling them they are crap unless that was their upbringing. Psychology 101
Your response is unrelated to what Hatter23 is saying.  I see that it uses the same words, but the content is different.

Quote
"Or it might be that I cannot pick up on the Psychic Vibrations and cannot see the spirit world" said the storefront psychic.
Que?
It's a jab at you because you are so adamant about not helping us understand what the hell you mean by 'frequency'.
Don't take me for a fool. I understand all of the nonsense and play your game wondering where you will go with it. Some call that intellegencia trolling I call it patience born out of age and wisdom.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Angus and Alexis

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1487
  • Darwins +71/-24
  • Gender: Male
  • Residential Tulpamancer.
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #517 on: January 15, 2014, 11:07:27 AM »
Fix your quoting.
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline Hatter23

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3880
  • Darwins +257/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • Doesn't believe in one more god than you
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #518 on: January 15, 2014, 11:09:44 AM »
No one wants to kill off a childs sweet and innocent awareness by telling them they are crap unless that was their upbringing.

However, you are supposed to be an adult. Just because you don't tell the child that their reasoning is crap, does not mean you don't think their reasoning is crap.


An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #519 on: January 15, 2014, 11:10:07 AM »
I did not create the ToE scientists did. I am just discussing that relative to the Theists. Why are you calling me nuts??

Possibly because the ToE refers to properties of physical entities, and you're trying to extend it to hypothetical Imaginary Friends.  That's kind of like looking through the long-distance codes in the phone book so you can call up Harry Potter, Ned Stark and Batman.
When the living physical matter "the body" "Start stuff" has that enlivening frequency "life" in it removed it dies.
I see your problem. You are obsessed with something only you know as “frequencies.” You interpret all things through “frequencies”, yet no one else knows anything about these “frequencies”.

You are using the word “frequencies” in the same way that people use the word “God”: one word that explains everything that we do not know.

More to the point, you do not know exactly what “frequencies” are either. You seem to be aware that there are “vibrations” in elemental particles and thus conclude that if they are moving, and the things that have these “frequencies” are conscious, then “frequencies” and life/consciousness are equal. From this you conclude that “frequency” is life/consciousness[1].

Picking up a rock will tell you this is not so. The subatomic particles in a rock are still moving. The calcium atom in a piece of chalk is no different from the calcium atom in your bones.

Quote
I want to know what it is that that I am looking at. Looking being a frequency.
Looking is not a “frequency”. The ancient Greeks had an idea that sight was caused by “frequencies” being projected from the eyes and then the eyes “felt” things: rather like “long-distance fingers” – thus a person who was blind, failed to send out “frequencies” and someone who was short-sighted had weak “frequencies”.

This has been shown to be absolutely wrong.

Quote
I am wanting to know what that frequency is or what that energy of consciousness is?
The problem you have is that you are looking for something that exists only in your mind.

You state things with such certainty. You imagine a theory and then adapt everything to fit that theory. This is a sign of delusion. You have no evidence of what you think at all.

It may be that you are desperately trying to explain something. But the greatest rule of all intelligence is “Just because you do not know the real answer, you cannot go inventing some wild story.”
Quote
It obviously keeps the body matter alive.
Why is it “obvious”? It isn’t “obvious” to me that “frequencies” do anything.

Quote
None of that is imaginery it is real at the level of the senses.
No. You are wrong. The senses are not always a good guide. You have not said what you mean by “senses”. A thing can be imaginary and yet appear very real to the senses.

You will be aware that, in times past, people believed that bad smells caused malaria. To them, it was “obvious” as their senses told them this.
 1. The TOE claims all matter is vibrating or better yet any thing made of matter is not still or dead but is vibrating and filled with energy. When there is life in that matter it is alive and active, when there is no life it is dead and dormant.
I am thinking you are trying to help me out here so I am going to state that the frequency of said "God Particle was discovered vibrating somewhere in the energy region of 145 GeV and 160GeV. I suspect the consciousness particle or the spirit molecule or whatever makes me me is vibrating at a higher frequency between some higher energy region. Lets see if you have something that these other blabber mouth atheists do not. Otherwise this whole thing that atheist are intelligent is nothing but a fools phenomena.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Hatter23

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3880
  • Darwins +257/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • Doesn't believe in one more god than you
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #520 on: January 15, 2014, 11:13:34 AM »
It's a jab at you because you are so adamant about not helping us understand what the hell you mean by 'frequency'.

It is also a jab that lofty sounding words are used to disguise what the person is talking about does not exist.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Jesuis

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
  • Darwins +10/-160
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #521 on: January 15, 2014, 11:21:12 AM »
No one wants to kill off a childs sweet and innocent awareness by telling them they are crap unless that was their upbringing.

However, you are supposed to be an adult. Just because you don't tell the child that their reasoning is crap, does not mean you don't think their reasoning is crap.
Its about the intelligence - the persona frequency. If God is Love he does not abuse. If Jesus's persona was resonating love of God then he would turn the cheek to lead by example. The abusive cannot be the holder of wisdom but the holder of ego. If I saw a child pure and innocent I would not be trying to corrupt it  - I resonate at some level with the theists who say things like this "Blessed are the pure at heart for they shall see God" I see great wisdom in this statement. I resonate with it more than other personas on here who find the corrupting of innocence the purpose of their fingers dexterity.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.