Author Topic: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?  (Read 26328 times)

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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #348 on: January 13, 2014, 03:19:43 PM »
Jesuis, you are correct in saying that vocabulary - words - do not affect reality, but are merely tools to help us communicate in our way to describe reality.

The problem, however, is that you don't seem to be making an attempt to establish common ground on what words mean.  I think the back-and-forth with the word 'eternity' is one instance.  From what I've put in bold above, 'frequency' appears to be another.

When you ask for proof that 'eternity' lasts 'forever'...well, that's kind of like asking for proof that 'red' is 'red', or asking for proof that 'yes' is the opposite of 'no'.  The word 'eternity' denotes something that lasts 'forever'.  You can argue whether something can or cannot last forever, or for eternity, but it is silly to ask for proof that 'eternity' lasts 'forever'.

I cannot understand the phrase "frequency of the meaning of god".  That is, that arrangement of symbols does not convey, express, or communicate an idea or concept that is coherent.  Colorless green ideas sleep furiously and all that jazz.  Perhaps clarification on what you mean by 'frequency', or 'meaning', or 'god' would help.
Indeed.
I'm...unconvinced that you understood my post.  It's OK; I'm not an ideal communicator.

Quote
God remains unexplained depending on who we are of course - and it is silly that some can understand immediately and others cannot. Red is Red like God is God.  But such is the way of the world we live in, a world of dualtiy an opposites and laws - but that does not mean God is non existent. Say for example Jesus without doubt knew God but his desciples were not the holders of that wisdom.
Flobart remains unexplained depending on who we are of course - and it is silly that some can understand immediately and others cannot.  Red is Red like Flobart is Flobart.  But such is the way of the world we live in, a world of duality and opposites and laws[1] - but that does not mean Flobart is non-existent.

Quote
A Painter only needs to paint his picture - the observer looking at it tries to explain it but it remains the work of the painter and not anyone else.
You need to establish the existence of the picture.  It would be ridiculous to try to explain it prior to that.
You need to establish the existence of the painter.  It would be ridiculous to try to explain the painter's intent prior to that.
 1. What?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #349 on: January 13, 2014, 03:27:05 PM »
No one is asking you to accept anything exists especially that of folk lore.


Quote
if you accept the definition of God as eternal thus making you a believer that it exists because it is in the dictionary 


What's wrong with these two quotes of yours?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 03:29:28 PM by Hatter23 »
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Online xyzzy

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #350 on: January 13, 2014, 04:27:17 PM »
So our "new" resident theist says "frequencies" and BAM! there's god? WTF is this, some new buzzword?

Dunno, won't prove it. Expects us to take him at his word. Says we wouldn't understand it anyways.

Perhaps you meant to say: "Dunno, won't prove it. Frequently expects us to take him at his word. Frequently says we wouldn't understand it anyways".

See, now it's all deep and meaningful, yet also beyond the understanding of us poor heathens.
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Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #351 on: January 13, 2014, 04:28:03 PM »

Jesuis,

What is your basis for understanding?
Intellect - but do we know what that is or are some of us believing it to be something that it might not be as written in an evolving dictionary?

Merriam-Webster defines the word “understand” as follows:  to know the meaning of (something, such as the words that someone is saying or a language), to know how (something) works or happens, to know how (someone) thinks, feels or behaves.
But do we know that meaning to be true and can we accept websters team of people(experts) who mind you can change the meaning when they like thus rendering such an account to be untrue at a later date. Can we accept this meaning as a true statement of fact? Why would you when historically they do not stand the test of time.

How do you know then that the receiver of the answer doesn’t understand the answer?
Doubt.
When one person resonates at the same frequency as the other he knows what he is experiencing and therefore there is no doubt, No words need be said. When there is uncertainty and insecurity there is doubt.

It can’t be simple agreement.  If I agree with your answer, that doesn't mean I understand it.
True! There are many similar students in any class - they agree on what is being said and taught but have not clue what they are agreeing too. Lets take the historical figure Jesus for instance - he may have spoken of God his father, our father, but who understood what he was talking about?

It is also true that if I disagree with your answer, that doesn't mean I lack understanding.
Of course not. But if is a matter of frequency alignment and brain waves. I might repeat what I said and you might still do not understand -- what then does that say about your understanding. How many students are A+ or geniuses in any given class?

Additionally the giver of the answer must understand the question, correct?  Perhaps the receiver of the answer doesn't believe that the giver of the answer understood the question.  If the giver of the answer doesn't understand the question then perhaps the theist lack of understanding is going unnoticed by the theist.
you have jumped ahead to input "theist" but I guess you want to get to this point quick. Take your time grass hopper it is not a race. If we are simply trying to match resonating frequencies to create peace then their is harmony being sought by two parties - if we are not trying to match the frequencies it is only going to create isharmony. It is all about the will in the individuals.(of course that would require to accept there is such a thing).

In my opinion, I think the most direct answer to a direct question would be one that provides the best explanation.  I don't think your answer provides the best explanation and therefore is not a direct answer.
Truth is not based on what you think it is.  - Truth is the unchanging expression frequency resonating at a fixed state - no one can change that or the definition itself would be wrong. God would be the truth but the definition or words could be wrong until we get the wording right or the understanding right.

A possible direct answer to the direct question (Why is it hard for believers to answer a direct question?) is that the believer thinks they know something when they don't actually know.   My answer to the question provides a good explanation.  Currently it explains why it is hard for you Jesus to give a direct answer to the direct question, which is because you think you know something when you don't actually know.  You think you know that the receiver of the answer doesn't understand the answer when in fact you don't know if the receiver understands or not.
That works both ways.

Additionally, since the believer doesn't actually know what they think they know they will avoid providing a direct answer to a direct question.  It is much easier to answer directly when you don't pretend to know something.
You want to make a point but it is not quite right. Hense my response. The historical figure and reference "Jesus" did not say he thinks there is a God (And we can find many such historical figures for the debate) but, he said he knows God who is his/our father. Wether you understand this point for us to progress would make all the difference in the mental frequencies and the will to progree will be allowed between us and the peaceful progression of the intellect starts. But also the pretence is there that you might be willing to hold on too that you know something as if it is your life line to some sort of security. However the facts of misrepresentation and untruths do not go unnoticed.
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Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #352 on: January 13, 2014, 04:30:47 PM »
No one is asking you to accept anything exists especially that of folk lore.


Quote
if you accept the definition of God as eternal thus making you a believer that it exists because it is in the dictionary 


What's wrong with these two quotes of yours?
nothing is wrong with it. They are queries to find your truth so we can build upon it slowly.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #353 on: January 13, 2014, 04:32:58 PM »
So our "new" resident theist says "frequencies" and BAM! there's god? WTF is this, some new buzzword?

Dunno, won't prove it. Expects us to take him at his word. Says we wouldn't understand it anyways.

Perhaps you meant to say: "Dunno, won't prove it. Frequently expects us to take him at his word. Frequently says we wouldn't understand it anyways".

See, now it's all deep and meaningful, yet also beyond the understanding of us poor heathens.

Funny how the term 'frequency' is used here quite similarly to how store front Mediums use the term "Psychic Vibrations"

"You cannot see the spirits but I can, I have trained myself to pick up on the pychic vibrations of the spirit world. You who not believe cannot understand their subtle ways."

« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 04:45:20 PM by Hatter23 »
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #354 on: January 13, 2014, 04:34:00 PM »
No one is asking you to accept anything exists especially that of folk lore.


Quote
if you accept the definition of God as eternal thus making you a believer that it exists because it is in the dictionary 


What's wrong with these two quotes of yours?
nothing is wrong with it. They are queries to find your truth so we can build upon it slowly.

So you are incapable of understanding these are mutually exclusive statements?
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #355 on: January 13, 2014, 04:35:10 PM »
Jesuis, you are correct in saying that vocabulary - words - do not affect reality, but are merely tools to help us communicate in our way to describe reality.

The problem, however, is that you don't seem to be making an attempt to establish common ground on what words mean.  I think the back-and-forth with the word 'eternity' is one instance.  From what I've put in bold above, 'frequency' appears to be another.

When you ask for proof that 'eternity' lasts 'forever'...well, that's kind of like asking for proof that 'red' is 'red', or asking for proof that 'yes' is the opposite of 'no'.  The word 'eternity' denotes something that lasts 'forever'.  You can argue whether something can or cannot last forever, or for eternity, but it is silly to ask for proof that 'eternity' lasts 'forever'.

I cannot understand the phrase "frequency of the meaning of god".  That is, that arrangement of symbols does not convey, express, or communicate an idea or concept that is coherent.  Colorless green ideas sleep furiously and all that jazz.  Perhaps clarification on what you mean by 'frequency', or 'meaning', or 'god' would help.
Indeed.
I'm...unconvinced that you understood my post.  It's OK; I'm not an ideal communicator.

Quote
God remains unexplained depending on who we are of course - and it is silly that some can understand immediately and others cannot. Red is Red like God is God.  But such is the way of the world we live in, a world of dualtiy an opposites and laws - but that does not mean God is non existent. Say for example Jesus without doubt knew God but his desciples were not the holders of that wisdom.
Flobart remains unexplained depending on who we are of course - and it is silly that some can understand immediately and others cannot.  Red is Red like Flobart is Flobart.  But such is the way of the world we live in, a world of duality and opposites and laws[1] - but that does not mean Flobart is non-existent.

Quote
A Painter only needs to paint his picture - the observer looking at it tries to explain it but it remains the work of the painter and not anyone else.
You need to establish the existence of the picture.  It would be ridiculous to try to explain it prior to that.
You need to establish the existence of the painter.  It would be ridiculous to try to explain the painter's intent prior to that.
 1. What?
I doubt there is much further discussion if you cannot accept that the painter painted the picture and the describer is trying to describe it.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 04:36:50 PM by Jesuis »
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Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #356 on: January 13, 2014, 04:39:12 PM »
No one is asking you to accept anything exists especially that of folk lore.


Quote
if you accept the definition of God as eternal thus making you a believer that it exists because it is in the dictionary 


What's wrong with these two quotes of yours?
nothing is wrong with it. They are queries to find your truth so we can build upon it slowly.

So you are incapable of understanding these are mutually exclusive statements?
As I am incapable of understanding your belief and faith in a Websters dictionary for facts.
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Online Graybeard

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #357 on: January 13, 2014, 04:41:05 PM »

Jesuis,

What is your basis for understanding?
Intellect - but do we know what that is or are some of us believing it to be something that it might not be as written in an evolving dictionary?
I have to say that your intellect has failed you. Were we to be uncertain as to the meaning of words, all would be gibberish. You seem to reject a dictionary that does no more than record the meaning of words (not dictate the meaning of them). Logically, then, you do not expect anything you write to be understood. Am I correct?

Let me take you on journey to your childhood:

Humpty Dumpty in Through The Looking Glass:-

"'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'

Alice was too much puzzled to say anything; so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. 'They've a temper, some of them — particularly verbs: they're the proudest — adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs — however, I can manage the whole lot of them! Impenetrability! That's what I say!'


Now... are you egg-shaped?
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Offline Star Stuff

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #358 on: January 13, 2014, 04:41:55 PM »
I doubt there is much further discussion if you cannot accept that the painter painted the picture and the describer is trying to describe it.


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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #359 on: January 13, 2014, 04:52:25 PM »
The picture painted itself. We're trying to describe it. Accurately. Or at least as accurately as humans can describe things.

Fictions like the bible just hold people back.

Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #360 on: January 13, 2014, 04:58:46 PM »
I doubt there is much further discussion if you cannot accept that the painter painted the picture and the describer is trying to describe it.
Well, there is a discussion point - does the painter exist?

Acceptance of the claim 'the painter exists' just because you say so would be intellectually dishonest.  Expecting that others accept your claim just because you say so would be hubris.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #361 on: January 13, 2014, 05:04:44 PM »
No one is asking you to accept anything exists especially that of folk lore.


Quote
if you accept the definition of God as eternal thus making you a believer that it exists because it is in the dictionary 


What's wrong with these two quotes of yours?
nothing is wrong with it. They are queries to find your truth so we can build upon it slowly.

So you are incapable of understanding these are mutually exclusive statements?
As I am incapable of understanding your belief and faith in a Websters dictionary for facts.

I didn't say anything as such. Why do you have a belief that I have "faith' in a Webster dictionary for facts, when, as a matter of fact, I made no such claim?
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Ivellios

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #362 on: January 13, 2014, 05:08:55 PM »
He's afraid he might actually learn something if he looks up 'mutually exclusive.' He's probably only read the bible his entire life.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #363 on: January 13, 2014, 05:10:15 PM »
I didn't say anything as such. Why do you have a belief that I have "faith' in a Webster dictionary for facts, when, as a matter of fact, I made no such claim?
Meh, don't be too hard on him.  He's just using the words 'as', 'I', 'am', 'incapable', 'of', 'understanding', 'your', 'belief', 'and', 'faith', 'in', 'a', 'dictionary', 'for', and 'fact' in a different way then you understand them to mean.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

- Eddie Izzard

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Offline Ataraxia

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #364 on: January 13, 2014, 05:15:37 PM »
I didn't say anything as such. Why do you have a belief that I have "faith' in a Webster dictionary for facts, when, as a matter of fact, I made no such claim?
Meh, don't be too hard on him.  He's just using the words 'as', 'I', 'am', 'incapable', 'of', 'understanding', 'your', 'belief', 'and', 'faith', 'in', 'a', 'dictionary', 'for', and 'fact' in a different way then you understand them to mean.

Surely you mean frequency?
If you keep on living your life as though your purpose is to be saved and go to heaven, you are missing the heaven that you are living in right now.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #365 on: January 13, 2014, 05:22:21 PM »

Jesuis,

What is your basis for understanding?
Intellect - but do we know what that is or are some of us believing it to be something that it might not be as written in an evolving dictionary?
I have to say that your intellect has failed you. Were we to be uncertain as to the meaning of words, all would be gibberish. You seem to reject a dictionary that does no more than record the meaning of words (not dictate the meaning of them). Logically, then, you do not expect anything you write to be understood. Am I correct?

Let me take you on journey to your childhood:

Humpty Dumpty in Through The Looking Glass:-

"'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'

Alice was too much puzzled to say anything; so after a minute Humpty Dumpty began again. 'They've a temper, some of them — particularly verbs: they're the proudest — adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs — however, I can manage the whole lot of them! Impenetrability! That's what I say!'


Now... are you egg-shaped?
I have not rejected the dictionary - I just do not put all my faith in it as you do. for instance the theist and the word atheist I may chose to redefine. But you might choose to insist that it is what it is. There where can have some claification will not not be allowed because I want the words to mean something and you do not. My aim would be to get you to start building upon what is real rather than on what is not. For instance "God" is not what the dictionary says it what the historical figure Jesus Nanak Mahavira etc knows it to be.
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Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #366 on: January 13, 2014, 05:33:09 PM »
I doubt there is much further discussion if you cannot accept that the painter painted the picture and the describer is trying to describe it.




Nice video.
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Online xyzzy

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #367 on: January 13, 2014, 05:35:24 PM »
Now... are you egg-shaped?

I have not rejected the dictionary - I just do not put all my faith in it as you do. for instance the theist and the word atheist I may chose to redefine. But you might choose to insist that it is what it is. There where can have some claification will not not be allowed because I want the words to mean something and you do not. My aim would be to get you to start building upon what is real rather than on what is not. For instance "God" is not what the dictionary says it what the historical figure Jesus Nanak Mahavira etc knows it to be.

So it seems that the answer is yes.[1]

Also, I just wanted to acknowledge that I do recognise that you are avoiding answering my queries.
 1. Although his reply is delightfully ironic
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 05:42:34 PM by xyzzy »
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool -- Richard Feynman
You are in a maze of twisty little religions, all alike -- xyzzy

Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #368 on: January 13, 2014, 05:40:27 PM »
I doubt there is much further discussion if you cannot accept that the painter painted the picture and the describer is trying to describe it.
Well, there is a discussion point - does the painter exist?

Acceptance of the claim 'the painter exists' just because you say so would be intellectually dishonest.  Expecting that others accept your claim just because you say so would be hubris.
I doubt the painter is trying to get anyone to accept that he has painted the picture. The picture is being described by one's who knows the picture was painted and they seem keen to get this message over. As I said Jesus Nanak Mahavira made no qualms about the painter. Lets call these guys (who know the painter) the true theists thus making the rest of us atheists (ones who do not know). For discussion or debate obviously if you can adjust you dictionary to create some sort of peace.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 05:43:20 PM by Jesuis »
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Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #369 on: January 13, 2014, 05:49:26 PM »
I doubt there is much further discussion if you cannot accept that the painter painted the picture and the describer is trying to describe it.
Well, there is a discussion point - does the painter exist?

Acceptance of the claim 'the painter exists' just because you say so would be intellectually dishonest.  Expecting that others accept your claim just because you say so would be hubris.
I doubt the painter is trying to get anyone to accept that he has painted the picture. The picture is being described by one's who knows the picture was painted and they seem keen to get this message over. As I said Jesus Nanak Mahavira made no qualms about the painter. Lets call these guys (who know the painter) the true theists thus making the rest of us atheists (ones who do not know). For discussion or debate obviously if you can adjust you dictionary to create some sort of peace.

Is Jesus Nanak Mahavira the same as Jesus of Nazareth aka the Christ in the Christian New Testament writings? 

Ever curious,

OldChurchGuy
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Offline G-Roll

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #370 on: January 13, 2014, 05:55:53 PM »
I think he is Sihk or Janis or something like that. Google Nanak Mahavira and you get those results.

Offline Ivellios

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #371 on: January 13, 2014, 05:57:37 PM »
Is Jesus Nanak Mahavira the same as Jesus of Nazareth aka the Christ in the Christian New Testament writings? 

Ever curious,

OldChurchGuy

OCG, good luck with this guy. Maybe as a believer you can have more common ground and can actually converse with him. Says he's trying to reach us but he keeps redefining words, talking about being on a different frequency, and saying there's no point in explaining it, because it'll be like trying to explain to a 2 year old where babies come from.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #372 on: January 13, 2014, 06:04:28 PM »
I doubt there is much further discussion if you cannot accept that the painter painted the picture and the describer is trying to describe it.
Well, there is a discussion point - does the painter exist?

Acceptance of the claim 'the painter exists' just because you say so would be intellectually dishonest.  Expecting that others accept your claim just because you say so would be hubris.
I doubt the painter is trying to get anyone to accept that he has painted the picture. The picture is being described by one's who knows the picture was painted and they seem keen to get this message over. As I said Jesus Nanak Mahavira made no qualms about the painter. Lets call these guys (who know the painter) the true theists thus making the rest of us atheists (ones who do not know). For discussion or debate obviously if you can adjust you dictionary to create some sort of peace.

Is Jesus Nanak Mahavira the same as Jesus of Nazareth aka the Christ in the Christian New Testament writings? 

Ever curious,

OldChurchGuy
Honestly? We have just lowered this discussion to a new all time low. Would it be prudent to say you should know the answer to this question and that you expect me to answer differently so that you can make a point in ridiculousness. Lets go with they were human beings of our historical writings in whose name religions have been formed that they were painting a picture of the god entity to the people that choose to believe them. Aka Frequency!
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline voodoo child

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #373 on: January 13, 2014, 06:06:44 PM »
Boy oh boy weirdness comes from strange lands. The whiteman cometh, again and again, and we have no fence's to keep their crazy ideas away. Strange names Nanak, Mahavira.  Nanak sounds like a cousin. But I think we called him Nanook? Maybe that was the dogs name.  &)

 
http://snphilosophers2005.tripod.com/bipin.pdf          < good for some shits and giggles
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 06:09:03 PM by voodoo child »
The classical man is just a bundle of routine, ideas and tradition. If you follow the classical pattern, you are understanding the routine, the tradition, the shadow, you are not understanding yourself. Truth has no path. Truth is living and therefore changing. Bruce lee

Offline OldChurchGuy

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #374 on: January 13, 2014, 06:09:48 PM »
I doubt there is much further discussion if you cannot accept that the painter painted the picture and the describer is trying to describe it.
Well, there is a discussion point - does the painter exist?

Acceptance of the claim 'the painter exists' just because you say so would be intellectually dishonest.  Expecting that others accept your claim just because you say so would be hubris.
I doubt the painter is trying to get anyone to accept that he has painted the picture. The picture is being described by one's who knows the picture was painted and they seem keen to get this message over. As I said Jesus Nanak Mahavira made no qualms about the painter. Lets call these guys (who know the painter) the true theists thus making the rest of us atheists (ones who do not know). For discussion or debate obviously if you can adjust you dictionary to create some sort of peace.

Is Jesus Nanak Mahavira the same as Jesus of Nazareth aka the Christ in the Christian New Testament writings? 

Ever curious,

OldChurchGuy
Honestly? We have just lowered this discussion to a new all time low. Would it be prudent to say you should know the answer to this question and that you expect me to answer differently so that you can make a point in ridiculousness. Lets go with they were human beings of our historical writings in whose name religions have been formed that they were painting a picture of the god entity to the people that choose to believe them. Aka Frequency!

I didn't realize asking questions would lead this discussion to a new all time low. 

I don't see how it would be prudent for you to say I should know the answer to this question and that I expect you to answer differently so I can make a point in ridiculousness.  If I knew the answer I would not have asked.

When you write "of our historical writings" whose writings are you referring to? 

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle - Philo of Alexandria

Whether one believes in a religion or not, and whether one believes in rebirth or not, there isn't anyone who doesn't appreciate kindness and compassion - Dalai Lama

Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #375 on: January 13, 2014, 06:10:31 PM »
I think he is Sihk or Janis or something like that. Google Nanak Mahavira and you get those results.
I can increase the list if you like -- but was trying to raise the bar not lower it. Moses - Judaism,  Jesus - Christianity, Mahavira - Jainism, Nanak - Sikhism, Krishna - Hinduism, Buddha - Buddhism. Just keeping real and frequency based drawing your attention to the ones who know relative to us who don't.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #376 on: January 13, 2014, 06:24:30 PM »
I doubt there is much further discussion if you cannot accept that the painter painted the picture and the describer is trying to describe it.
Well, there is a discussion point - does the painter exist?

Acceptance of the claim 'the painter exists' just because you say so would be intellectually dishonest.  Expecting that others accept your claim just because you say so would be hubris.
I doubt the painter is trying to get anyone to accept that he has painted the picture. The picture is being described by one's who knows the picture was painted and they seem keen to get this message over. As I said Jesus Nanak Mahavira made no qualms about the painter. Lets call these guys (who know the painter) the true theists thus making the rest of us atheists (ones who do not know). For discussion or debate obviously if you can adjust your dictionary to create some sort of peace.

Is Jesus Nanak Mahavira the same as Jesus of Nazareth aka the Christ in the Christian New Testament writings? 

Ever curious,

OldChurchGuy
Honestly? We have just lowered this discussion to a new all time low. Would it be prudent to say you should know the answer to this question and that you expect me to answer differently so that you can make a point in ridiculousness. Lets go with they were human beings of our historical writings in whose name religions have been formed that they were painting a picture of the god entity to the people that choose to believe them. Aka Frequency!

I didn't realize asking questions would lead this discussion to a new all time low. 

I don't see how it would be prudent for you to say I should know the answer to this question and that I expect you to answer differently so I can make a point in ridiculousness.  If I knew the answer I would not have asked.
Your question: Is Jesus Nanak Mahavira the same as Jesus of Nazareth aka the Christ in the Christian New Testament writings?
My response - was way above your pay grade. My fault. I realise now yoou have no clue about these people perhaps never heard of them. So what makes you "curious"and why "being the same"?

When you write "of our historical writings" whose writings are you referring to? 

Sincerely,

OldChurchGuy
Perhaps I said too much that could be making you very confused. "Our historical writings" meaning the people of the Earth - human beings perhaps who took the time and the effort to record things they have witnessed or heard that others can read read and make sense of? Will that work?
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 06:51:11 PM by Jesuis »
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.