Author Topic: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?  (Read 15132 times)

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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #261 on: January 12, 2014, 09:47:19 PM »
This is something i do not get.

Theists are always like "This is the truth, radda radda", yet they bloody lie on even the most trivially common known things.
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Offline xyzzy

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #262 on: January 12, 2014, 10:04:04 PM »
On the subject of supposedly not being able to pray, I suspect harbinger may be referring to the results of actions such as those from the MRFF -- http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/achievements/. Ironically, though, those folks are just trying to ensure consistent adherence to the constitutional guarantees that harbinger might well tell people he's fighting for.


http://z3news.com/w/president-obama-ramping-persecution-christians-military/

or this perhaps.
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/10/14/us-army-defines-christian-ministry-as-domestic-hate-group/?intcmp=related

What I find amusing is you trust (1)Fox News who had to go to court to get upheld for their permission to lie, and whose job #1 is to discredit all liberals particularly Obama and  (2) a website called "Zeal for Christianity" as your news sources.

Your bias is laughable.

I was going to write a rebuttal to harbinger's... rant... but then I noticed the headlines from some of the other stories on Z3 news and decided that they spoke for themselves.

Harbinger, you seem to be, frankly, desperate to envelop yourself in a climate of confirmation bias and you seem only to seek out "sources" that feed your persecution complex.

I'm intrigued, do you read Z3 News on a regular basis, or is just another example of you searching for something to fit your predetermined narrative? I really am interested in your answer.

Anyway, here's some other headlines from harbinger's source. I think they speak for themselves.

John MacArthur Launches Vicious Attack Against Charismatic Christians

Keith Moore’s Amazing Visit to Heaven

Church Leadership Will Soon Get Delivered from Their Witchcraft

Increased Angelic Activity Coming in 2013

Higher Wisdom is Being Released in 2013

and so on.

In this one, though, we see prophecy. Now, harbinger, you are citing this publication as a source. You must therefore trust it? Please answer. Do you consider Z3 a reliable source?

Quote
Radical Christian Revolution Coming in 2013

"We are about to be introduced to Almighty God as the roaring Lion of Judah. God is restoring holy awe and fear to His people—and as this righteous and wholesome fear of the Lord returns to the people of God, the manifest presence of the Lord will also return. We can expect to see God reveal Himself in such magnitude and glory that the mouths of people will open wide. We can expect no less than jaw-dropping experiences".

Now, please answer: (a) did these prophecies come true? (b) how to you reconcile these "jaw-dropping experiences" and statements such as "We are about to be introduced to Almighty God as the roaring Lion of Judah" with your claim that a mere mortal (the president) can prevent you from praying to "the roaring Lion of Judah"?

What were your jaw-dropping experiences in 2013?

The article about angels cited Harry Potter as an influence in people becoming witches. Do you believe in witches, harbinger?

Also, how did this work out for you?

Quote
Prepare for angelic visitations! We are in a time when the spiritual realm is extremely active. God’s holy angels are sent here to help us as we engage in the conflict of the ages.

My explanation for all this bluster is that it's just made up shit. What's yours?

protip: if you're going to trawl the internet seeking to cherry pick examples to support your unflinching position, you might want to ensure that what you are posting does you more good than harm.

« Last Edit: January 12, 2014, 10:19:25 PM by xyzzy »
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You are in a maze of twisty little religions, all alike -- xyzzy

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #263 on: January 12, 2014, 10:50:50 PM »

My explanation for all this bluster is that it's just made up shit. What's yours?

protip: if you're going to trawl the internet seeking to cherry pick examples to support your unflinching position, you might want to ensure that what you are posting does you more good than harm.

So another fallacy: Texas sharpshooter.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #264 on: January 12, 2014, 11:20:55 PM »
I find this over and over again on this forum - what seems to be the simplest and directest question takes pages and pages of dodging and backsliding and ignoring until - maybe - you finally get an answer.

I'm sure there is a lot of discussion to be had about the psychology of it all, but I'm interested in a different question.

If there IS a god out there, and that god is as just and right and GOOD as most believers would have us believe - then why is all the dodging necessary in the first place?  Surely a god so good, so perfect, so right, would lead to discussions along the lines of:

Anfauglir: Can you explain why your god.....
Believer: (firmly) Yes.  It is because.....(specific and direct answer).
Anfauglir:  Ah, I see - that makes perfect sense.  Thank you.

Now THAT kind of god - the one where there was no need to dodge, no need to prevaricate, no need to shy away from "awkward" questions......THAT is a god that I could really get behind.  But these gods who are so tricksy, so convoluted, so demonstrative of so many negative behaviours that their believers have to dodge the questions and go into such lengthy apologetics......well, there just seems something suspicious about it all.

A truly good, truly godly god, would be very unlikely to raise any of these questions in the first place.  And it certainly wouldn't require the degree of evasion and goal-post shifting that we see so much of on these forums. 

If there was a truly good and godly god, it would be clear.  No nagging doubts, no endless arguments.  It would be clear and obvious to all.  The fact that it isn't may not necessarily mean there isn't a god out there.  But it sure makes it clear that there is something seriously wrong with the picture.
There probably is no need to answer or there are answers and no one understand it.
For instance many people perhaps cannot explain what frequencies are - they therefore lack the ability or vocabulary to explain said unknown - however it does not mean frequencies do not exist. Some things that were written for a primitve mind relative to science cannot be understood by those with a differnt mental and vocabulary make up. One would say it is all realtive to the receiver.
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #265 on: January 12, 2014, 11:29:00 PM »
I find this over and over again on this forum - what seems to be the simplest and directest question takes pages and pages of dodging and backsliding and ignoring until - maybe - you finally get an answer.

I'm sure there is a lot of discussion to be had about the psychology of it all, but I'm interested in a different question.

If there IS a god out there, and that god is as just and right and GOOD as most believers would have us believe - then why is all the dodging necessary in the first place?  Surely a god so good, so perfect, so right, would lead to discussions along the lines of:

Anfauglir: Can you explain why your god.....
Believer: (firmly) Yes.  It is because.....(specific and direct answer).
Anfauglir:  Ah, I see - that makes perfect sense.  Thank you.

Now THAT kind of god - the one where there was no need to dodge, no need to prevaricate, no need to shy away from "awkward" questions......THAT is a god that I could really get behind.  But these gods who are so tricksy, so convoluted, so demonstrative of so many negative behaviours that their believers have to dodge the questions and go into such lengthy apologetics......well, there just seems something suspicious about it all.

A truly good, truly godly god, would be very unlikely to raise any of these questions in the first place.  And it certainly wouldn't require the degree of evasion and goal-post shifting that we see so much of on these forums. 

If there was a truly good and godly god, it would be clear.  No nagging doubts, no endless arguments.  It would be clear and obvious to all.  The fact that it isn't may not necessarily mean there isn't a god out there.  But it sure makes it clear that there is something seriously wrong with the picture.
There probably is no need to answer or there are answers and no one understand it.
For instance many people perhaps cannot explain what frequencies are - they therefore lack the ability or vocabulary to explain said unknown - however it does not mean frequencies do not exist. Some things that were written for a primitve mind relative to science cannot be understood by those with a differnt mental and vocabulary make up. One would say it is all realtive to the receiver.

I'm finding quite amusing that you are illustrating the original post's point.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #266 on: January 12, 2014, 11:32:21 PM »
This thread's OP is like a perpetual irony machine.

The thread is so simple, but yet is somehow so complex that the audience it is aimed at is incapable of answering it according to the thread itself...
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #267 on: January 12, 2014, 11:35:36 PM »
Maybe you should check into something a bit more up to date.

Like what? Another tall tale from the Ancient World?





Maybe you can ask a Christian Soldier what's happening on the ground.

Christian Soldier? What the hell are they doing over there? Turning the other cheek?


Dear Christian Soldier,

Either put down the guns, or remove "Christian" as part of your description, Thou hypocrite.



Are you saying that some people call themselves Christians but are not actually Christians?

Isn't that what I have been saying all along? Now you agree with me?



Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #268 on: January 12, 2014, 11:41:38 PM »
[quote author=skeptic54768 link=topic=25200.msg594844#msg594844 date=1389587736
Are you saying that some people call themselves Christians but are not actually Christians?

Isn't that what I have been saying all along? Now you agree with me?

[/quote]

I think it was pointing at the irony of a christian (pro life, says not to kill, etc) wanting to be a soldier...

Never the less, they believe in Jesus and god, thus are still Christians.
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #269 on: January 12, 2014, 11:55:54 PM »

I think it was pointing at the irony of a christian (pro life, says not to kill, etc) wanting to be a soldier...

Never the less, they believe in Jesus and god, thus are still Christians.

The poster said to remove "Christian" from his title. Don't try to backpedal.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #270 on: January 12, 2014, 11:58:18 PM »
The poster said to remove "Christian" from his title. Don't try to backpedal.

"Christian soldier" could imply two things.
1: a soldier who is a christian.
2: a soldier who fights christians.

But i digress.

Can you answer the OP yet?
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #271 on: January 13, 2014, 12:01:32 AM »
The poster said to remove "Christian" from his title. Don't try to backpedal.

"Christian soldier" could imply two things.
1: a soldier who is a christian.
2: a soldier who fights christians.

But i digress.

Can you answer the OP yet?

We do answer questions as best we can. But, trying to fully understand God is tough for people and atheists think we're stumped.

Imagine an ant trying to answer questions about a human. They would not be able to. This doesn't mean humans don't exist. it just means the ants can't fully understand us.

it would be like getting mad at your dog when he doesn't cook you dinner after you tell him to cook you dinner.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #272 on: January 13, 2014, 12:06:27 AM »
I have never backed down from a question. I even solved the problem of evil and one of the posters on here still has the quote in his signature. That tells me atheists ignore the answers we give.

Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #273 on: January 13, 2014, 12:09:24 AM »
We do answer questions as best we can. But, trying to fully understand God is tough for people and atheists think we're stumped.

Hogwash, theists claim to explain god all the time.

Be it from justifying the flood, to why god made sin.

Imagine an ant trying to answer questions about a human. They would not be able to. This doesn't mean humans don't exist. it just means the ants can't fully understand us.

*satirical but true post*
I beg to differ, here in Australia (where the ants are more than an inch in length), ants seem to understand that if a human is nearby, its probably going to squish a crap ton of them.

And again, another failed attempt to answer the OP.
Why is there all the dodging? Why is this perfect being described as something not perfect? Etc, read the OP.

I have never backed down from a question. I even solved the problem of evil and one of the posters on here still has the quote in his signature. That tells me atheists ignore the answers we give.

What poster?
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Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #274 on: January 13, 2014, 12:12:02 AM »
We do answer questions as best we can. But, trying to fully understand God is tough for people and atheists think we're stumped.

Hogwash, theists claim to explain god all the time.

Be it from justifying the flood, to why god made sin.

Imagine an ant trying to answer questions about a human. They would not be able to. This doesn't mean humans don't exist. it just means the ants can't fully understand us.

*satirical but true post*
I beg to differ, here in Australia (where the ants are more than an inch in length), ants seem to understand that if a human is nearby, its probably going to squish a crap ton of them.

And again, another failed attempt to answer the OP.
Why is there all the dodging? Why is this perfect being described as something not perfect? Etc, read the OP.

I have never backed down from a question. I even solved the problem of evil and one of the posters on here still has the quote in his signature. That tells me atheists ignore the answers we give.

What poster?

I think the poster is median, or ParkingPlaces. but I'm pretty sure it's median.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #275 on: January 13, 2014, 12:13:16 AM »
It ain't me. You're wrong about everything. Learn to adjust.
Not everyone is entitled to their opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #276 on: January 13, 2014, 12:14:44 AM »
It ain't me. You're wrong about everything. Learn to adjust.

It's median, then. Sorry for a mistake. it's like you guys are keeping an imaginary score against me.

Shouldn't a search for truth be above the pettiness of keeping score?
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #277 on: January 13, 2014, 12:16:51 AM »
I find this over and over again on this forum - what seems to be the simplest and directest question takes pages and pages of dodging and backsliding and ignoring until - maybe - you finally get an answer.

I'm sure there is a lot of discussion to be had about the psychology of it all, but I'm interested in a different question.

If there IS a god out there, and that god is as just and right and GOOD as most believers would have us believe - then why is all the dodging necessary in the first place?  Surely a god so good, so perfect, so right, would lead to discussions along the lines of:

Anfauglir: Can you explain why your god.....
Believer: (firmly) Yes.  It is because.....(specific and direct answer).
Anfauglir:  Ah, I see - that makes perfect sense.  Thank you.

Now THAT kind of god - the one where there was no need to dodge, no need to prevaricate, no need to shy away from "awkward" questions......THAT is a god that I could really get behind.  But these gods who are so tricksy, so convoluted, so demonstrative of so many negative behaviours that their believers have to dodge the questions and go into such lengthy apologetics......well, there just seems something suspicious about it all.

A truly good, truly godly god, would be very unlikely to raise any of these questions in the first place.  And it certainly wouldn't require the degree of evasion and goal-post shifting that we see so much of on these forums. 

If there was a truly good and godly god, it would be clear.  No nagging doubts, no endless arguments.  It would be clear and obvious to all.  The fact that it isn't may not necessarily mean there isn't a god out there.  But it sure makes it clear that there is something seriously wrong with the picture.
There probably is no need to answer or there are answers and no one understand it.
For instance many people perhaps cannot explain what frequencies are - they therefore lack the ability or vocabulary to explain said unknown - however it does not mean frequencies do not exist. Some things that were written for a primitve mind relative to science cannot be understood by those with a differnt mental and vocabulary make up. One would say it is all realtive to the receiver.

I'm finding quite amusing that you are illustrating the original post's point.
Forgive me for my ignorance, but can you explain why you say that?
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #278 on: January 13, 2014, 12:31:26 AM »
It's median, then. Sorry for a mistake. it's like you guys are keeping an imaginary score against me.

You have the highest smite score on the entire forum xD.

Shouldn't a search for truth be above the pettiness of keeping score?

Of course, but it doesn't help if one of the parties (Theists) never agrees with that.

Edit: you lied again (tisk tisk, god is going to be pissed). Median's signature is not what you claimed it to be.



Forgive me for my ignorance, but can you explain why you say that?

Your post was just a giant dodge, nothing direct.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2014, 12:34:29 AM by Angus and Alexis »
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Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #279 on: January 13, 2014, 12:37:50 AM »
Forgive me for my ignorance, but can you explain why you say that?

Your post was just a giant dodge, nothing direct.
I did not understand why he said that. What dodge?? I said exactly what I felt - "Giant Dodge" is just your exaggeration of the facts.
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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #280 on: January 13, 2014, 12:39:19 AM »
I did not understand why he said that. What dodge?? I said exactly what I felt - "Giant Dodge" is just your exaggeration of the facts.

The OP asks for direct answers.

You went "around" the question to answer it, thus a dodge.
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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #281 on: January 13, 2014, 12:44:40 AM »
I did not understand why he said that. What dodge?? I said exactly what I felt - "Giant Dodge" is just your exaggeration of the facts.

The OP asks for direct answers.

You went "around" the question to answer it, thus a dodge.
Do you care to rephrase the question - I must have missed something specific?
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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #282 on: January 13, 2014, 12:48:20 AM »
Do you care to rephrase the question - I must have missed something specific?

Why do i need to rephrase it?

The title of the thread IS the question, answering a question which talks about non-direct answers WITH a non-direct answer is a dodge.
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Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #283 on: January 13, 2014, 12:54:24 AM »
Do you care to rephrase the question - I must have missed something specific?

Why do i need to rephrase it?

The title of the thread IS the question, answering a question which talks about non-direct answers WITH a non-direct answer is a dodge.
You assume that the answer is not direct. but it is
"1. There probably is no need to answer or
 2. there are answers and no one understands it.

then I explained in case you missed it
"For instance many people perhaps cannot explain what frequencies are - they therefore lack the ability or vocabulary to explain said unknown - however it does not mean frequencies do not exist."

And just in case that was not clear
"Some things that were written for a primitive mind relative to science cannot be understood by those with a different mental and vocabulary make up. One would say it is all relative to the receiver."

Where is said "Giant Dodge"? Perhaps the answer is something you cannot understand but does not mean it is not answered.
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Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #284 on: January 13, 2014, 01:02:49 AM »
You assume that the answer is not direct. but it is
"1. There probably is no need to answer or
 2. there are answers and no one understands it.

1: There is a need for an answer, otherwise there is no more reason to believe in a god than there is to believe in leprechauns.
2: If there is no answer, then why believe in a god without even knowing anything about said god?

then I explained in case you missed it
"For instance many people perhaps cannot explain what frequencies are - they therefore lack the ability or vocabulary to explain said unknown - however it does not mean frequencies do not exist."

Which is a dodge, it avoids the question by poking a tiny hole in it, and ignores the giant patch that needs to be applied.

And just in case that was not clear
"Some things that were written for a primitive mind relative to science cannot be understood by those with a different mental and vocabulary make up. One would say it is all relative to the receiver."

Are you suggesting all gods are real, and thus everything goes to hell AND heaven?
Because different receiving does not equate to different signals.

Where is said "Giant Dodge"? Perhaps the answer is something you cannot understand but does not mean it is not answered.

The point of the question itself proves that without a direct answer, the god cannot be as godly as it is claimed to be, and thus is no value of worshiping.
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Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #285 on: January 13, 2014, 01:16:03 AM »
You assume that the answer is not direct. but it is
"1. There probably is no need to answer or
 2. there are answers and no one understands it.

1: There is a need for an answer, otherwise there is no more reason to believe in a god than there is to believe in leprechauns.
2: If there is no answer, then why believe in a god without even knowing anything about said god?

then I explained in case you missed it
"For instance many people perhaps cannot explain what frequencies are - they therefore lack the ability or vocabulary to explain said unknown - however it does not mean frequencies do not exist."

Which is a dodge, it avoids the question by poking a tiny hole in it, and ignores the giant patch that needs to be applied.

And just in case that was not clear
"Some things that were written for a primitive mind relative to science cannot be understood by those with a different mental and vocabulary make up. One would say it is all relative to the receiver."

Are you suggesting all gods are real, and thus everything goes to hell AND heaven?
Because different receiving does not equate to different signals.

Where is said "Giant Dodge"? Perhaps the answer is something you cannot understand but does not mean it is not answered.

The point of the question itself proves that without a direct answer, the god cannot be as godly as it is claimed to be, and thus is no value of worshiping.
Forgive me again but you seem to be lacking the vocabulary to understand my post. 
Your response appears to be adding more questions to the OP IE heaven and hell leprechauns and all sorts of spaget ti arms of nothing that you are creating without understanding the premise frequency. Perhaps it is the frequency that might be the key. Just saying. Peace.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.

Offline Angus and Alexis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #286 on: January 13, 2014, 01:22:10 AM »
Forgive me again but you seem to be lacking the vocabulary to understand my post. 
Your response appears to be adding more questions to the OP IE heaven and hell leprechauns and all sorts of spaget ti arms of nothing that you are creating without understanding the premise frequency. Perhaps it is the frequency that might be the key. Just saying. Peace.

Do i really need to re-post the OP?...

I find this over and over again on this forum - what seems to be the simplest and directest question takes pages and pages of dodging and backsliding and ignoring until - maybe - you finally get an answer.

I'm sure there is a lot of discussion to be had about the psychology of it all, but I'm interested in a different question.

If there IS a god out there, and that god is as just and right and GOOD as most believers would have us believe - then why is all the dodging necessary in the first place?  Surely a god so good, so perfect, so right, would lead to discussions along the lines of:

Anfauglir: Can you explain why your god.....
Believer: (firmly) Yes.  It is because.....(specific and direct answer).
Anfauglir:  Ah, I see - that makes perfect sense.  Thank you.

Now THAT kind of god - the one where there was no need to dodge, no need to prevaricate, no need to shy away from "awkward" questions......THAT is a god that I could really get behind.  But these gods who are so tricksy, so convoluted, so demonstrative of so many negative behaviours that their believers have to dodge the questions and go into such lengthy apologetics......well, there just seems something suspicious about it all.

A truly good, truly godly god, would be very unlikely to raise any of these questions in the first place.  And it certainly wouldn't require the degree of evasion and goal-post shifting that we see so much of on these forums. 

If there was a truly good and godly god, it would be clear.  No nagging doubts, no endless arguments.  It would be clear and obvious to all.  The fact that it isn't may not necessarily mean there isn't a god out there.  But it sure makes it clear that there is something seriously wrong with the picture.

See this?

In a nutshell it is "Theists seem to never answer a direct question, thus something is messed up with the concept of god".

Going around the question only makes the threads title more true.
Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Offline skeptic54768

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #287 on: January 13, 2014, 01:29:51 AM »
Of course, but it doesn't help if one of the parties (Theists) never agrees with that.

Edit: you lied again (tisk tisk, god is going to be pissed). Median's signature is not what you claimed it to be.

That is wrong! Median's signature is the problem of evil, and I solved it. Yet, he still has it as his signature.

This tells me you guys don't listen to what we say and just ignore it.
Matthew 10:22 "and you will be hated by all for my name’s sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved." - Jesus (said 2,000 years ago and still true today.)

Offline harbinger77

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #288 on: January 13, 2014, 01:32:17 AM »


No doubt the culture has an unhealthy hatred for Christianity,

Yeah that's why we have politician loudly proclaiming their Christianity every election cycle.
 &)

Really.... Who? NOT Obama. He's a muslim. Romney was Mormon NOT Christian. Who has been loud and proud since maybe Regan?
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
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Offline Jesuis

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Re: Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?
« Reply #289 on: January 13, 2014, 01:34:23 AM »
Do i really need to re-post the OP?...

I find this over and over again on this forum - what seems to be the simplest and directest question takes pages and pages of dodging and backsliding and ignoring until - maybe - you finally get an answer.

I'm sure there is a lot of discussion to be had about the psychology of it all, but I'm interested in a different question.

If there IS a god out there, and that god is as just and right and GOOD as most believers would have us believe - then why is all the dodging necessary in the first place?  Surely a god so good, so perfect, so right, would lead to discussions along the lines of:

Anfauglir: Can you explain why your god.....
Believer: (firmly) Yes.  It is because.....(specific and direct answer).
Anfauglir:  Ah, I see - that makes perfect sense.  Thank you.

Now THAT kind of god - the one where there was no need to dodge, no need to prevaricate, no need to shy away from "awkward" questions......THAT is a god that I could really get behind.  But these gods who are so tricksy, so convoluted, so demonstrative of so many negative behaviours that their believers have to dodge the questions and go into such lengthy apologetics......well, there just seems something suspicious about it all.

A truly good, truly godly god, would be very unlikely to raise any of these questions in the first place.  And it certainly wouldn't require the degree of evasion and goal-post shifting that we see so much of on these forums. 

If there was a truly good and godly god, it would be clear.  No nagging doubts, no endless arguments.  It would be clear and obvious to all.  The fact that it isn't may not necessarily mean there isn't a god out there.  But it sure makes it clear that there is something seriously wrong with the picture.

See this?

In a nutshell it is "Theists seem to never answer a direct question, thus something is messed up with the concept of god".

Going around the question only makes the threads title more true.
As I said the "vocabulary" does not clearly align the mentality to the "frequency" of the question to be discussed, but the OP has already presumed "God exists" without properly understanding the meaning or vibration of this word and as such does not understand the answers given relative to the wisdom of such a word. Note this is not a dodge. I am clearly either not understanding your need or lack off. In other words our mental frequencies are not being aligned for if it was we would have no discrepancies.
According to Theists: Theists know God, Atheists don't.