I'm not trying to say anything about you, or Atheists per-say by saying this, but I would rather be punched in the mouth then face the hate and threats I have had dished out to me by anti-God people. It's like all the hate and anger they feel towards God, is then turned to me. It is easier to say, "I don't deserve that" and walk away. Which is what alot of Christians do. Unfortunately, sometimes we walk away from good hearted people who just want answers, because we think they want to rip our heads off. So I hope that sheds a little more light on it.
ralonx, welcome, it's good to have you here. Also, thank you for taking the time to organise your thoughts, and for laying them out in readable paragraphs. That makes it so much easier to follow your arguments. White space rules, and your use of it is appreciated.
Oh yes, the comment about the moderators. This really is a wonderful venue. You'll even find that atheists will correct and disagree with other atheists. It is not a question of sides here. Also, don't spread it around lest people think you off your rocker, but I've heard whispers to the effect that moderators are human. I know, astonishing, isn't it?
- that is a nice thing about WWGHA, they participate as regular members too.
Now, I do realise that the above is somewhat of an aside, you did clearly say it wasn't a comment directly about people here, and I don't want to go to far off-topic, but something needs clarifying so it doesn't cause surprise later.
You see, the thing is, atheists don't hate your god. It's simply not possible to hate or be angry against something that doesn't exist. I don't mean to wound you by my bluntness, but you do need to appreciate that some here were believers; others, like me, have never, ever, ever, believed in your god, or any other other god.
This whole "you hate god" thing comes up a lot, and it's irksome. If you truly think we are angry at your god consider this: "Why do you hate Zeus?" "You're just angry at Ra" - those make no sense to you, do they? After all Zeus and Ra never existed. Right? Well, that's pretty much what an atheist hears when someone says "you're angry at god".
The part about you suffering hate. Well, that's sad and walking away would seem prudent. I'm not suggesting that you are being misleading about that, but I do wonder if you may not have mistaken frustrations at the institution of religion, or the effects of religion on society, for hatred of your god. Just a thought, I'm sure we will get back to that another time. I just wanted you to be aware of the reaction you'll get.
Now, many good points have been covered, so the only one I'm going to repeat is the part about miracles.
It's convenient, isn't it, how Yahweh's "miracles" are consistent with human abilities - of that time period - but you may not see it that way? As far as I can determine, many miracles only happen when no one is there to properly record it. And of course, wherever video capabilities exist, the number of miracles has plummeted. Again, you don't find that even the slightly bit odd? Not at all?
There's absolutely never been found any indication that so-called medical miracles are more prevalent in Christians (for example) than any other religion, or the non-religious. Why not? If it happens no more to a Christian than, say, a Hindu, what does that tell you? I'd appreciate your take on that.
You answered with Yahweh's mysteries ways, but how is it that this god is mysterious when it comes to things that could absolutely demonstrate his existence, yet believers claim to know so much about what he wants, to the points of specificity, with other things? That's not mysterious, ralonx, that's called making up excuses.
Here's a final item for your consideration. You're American, I think, so let's use that as a base. Many soldiers are young men, younger than you. They go into battle fighting for their country, and believing that "god" is on their side. George Bush, for example, declared that he was on a mission from god when he went into Iraq.
Now, these brave young men
go in to battle, they get their arms and legs blown off - all in service of their country and their god. Yet "god" is happy to heal people from things that humans naturally heal from. But, replacing missing limbs? He never does that. Never Ever.
You seem to like analogies, here's one. You're one of soldiers above. Around you are comrades. Over come the doctors and surgeons.
The guy with the broken leg? Certainly, we can fix that. Oh, you've got a ton of shrapnel in you? Let us remove it. Oh, you have severe internal injuries. Well, this it tough, but we'll work in it. You may need organ transplants, but we're on it.
Oh, now you two. The one who has lost an arm and a leg. Sorry, soldier, but no-can-do. Oh, and you, the teenager who has lost all his limbs, suffered severe spinal damage, trauma to the brain? We could so easily fix you, but we are not going to. You just need to accept that our reasons are mysterious, and you'll thank us later, but you get to see life from the confines of a shell of a body confined to a wheelchair. Carry on!
That's not mysterious; for an omnipotent god that's downright delinquent. I should have asked, do you believe that this god could help, but chooses not to? I think that is your position. Do correct me if I accidentally misrepresented you in this point.
Of course, an explanation that perfectly accounts for his inaction, is that he doesn't exist.
ralonx, you seem a nice guy - but you make excuses for this being that affords his "miracles" in a manner that seems inversely proportional to need. Yet you view such actions as those of a loving god?
Really. I mean, really? F'ing
miracles, how do they work? Or do they even exist?