Author Topic: Profiling  (Read 1407 times)

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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Profiling
« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2013, 06:56:03 PM »
You can compliment me anytime.  I am twice that woman's age,  so the compliments are fewer and further between...At my age I take any I can get. :D

Your lovely chocolate layers are even and look delicious.   ;D
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Profiling
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2013, 07:44:05 AM »
Your lovely chocolate layers are even and look delicious.   ;D

I read your response above - which, crucially, appeared alone at the top of page 2 - and thought - "Blimey!  Lori is going a bit far with the racial profiling there!!!"   :o

Then I went back a page, saw Nogodsforme's avatar, and all became clear!   ;D
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Profiling
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2013, 10:47:45 AM »
I never thought about my avatar as being a racial symbol before. But it makes sense, as I am a black woman with a lot of euro and native ancestry. Layers of chocolate with lots of vanilla and spice! Mmmm, good! ;D 8) :-*
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Profiling
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2013, 12:55:09 PM »
I never thought about my avatar as being a racial symbol before. But it makes sense, as I am a black woman with a lot of euro and native ancestry. Layers of chocolate with lots of vanilla and spice! Mmmm, good! ;D 8) :-*

I actually have an advanced certificate in cake decorating among my many unmarketable skills so I know cakes.  :laugh:
My BF is Afro/Cuban.  I lean toward the coffee comparisons.   ;)
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline The Gawd

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Re: Profiling
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2013, 09:31:54 PM »
We need to ask ourselves where our paranoia comes from. We need to confront out prejudices. We need to make sure that our own fears don't translate directly into the deaths of others. We need to make sure that not all of our headlines come from instances of selfishness and stupidity. And we need to learn how to decide when something is broken so that we can fix it.

Yesterday I was on a train in NYC.  Three teenaged black males got on together.  One of them stood out in particular.  His T-Shirt was pulled up & laced through his backpack straps exposing his abs - not so bad on a hot day.  But his shorts were sagged so low they literally were balanced on his pubic bone, displaying his underwear for all the world to see.  His loud contribution to the conversation with his friends contained more N-words than the combined works of Paula Deen and Richard Pryor.  As he stood directly in front of me, hanging on to the luggage rack, he made no attempt to keep his Sesame Street waistband clad pelvis out of my face.  When the jolting of the train caused him to make physical contact with me, I lost it.   I gently but deliberately pushed him off of me.  He flipped, started posturing gangsta style, saying "don't touch me..."  I managed to remain calm, I stated "I was simply getting you off of me."  I have been told that when I am angry I look very scary.  His friend looked from me to him and told him "Stop, just stop."  He did.  When my stop came I said "Excuse me" and stood up, nearly a head taller than the little brat, he actually backed up quickly enough to trip a little.

I found it hard not to see that kid as a thug, his general disrespect for an obvious elder, his dress, showing his ass so the world can kiss it - isn't that what sagged pants are about, his conversation peppered with terms I would be vilified for using...

But he was really a cute kid, he had Sesame Street underwear for Chrissakes, he almost fell down when he realized the white lady was bigger than he was...

Is this even fixable???

Well, what is posturing gangsta style?
Is there anything in particular that upsets you about shorts balancing on pubic bones?

Does this pic offend you? or is it okay because you cannot see her underpants?

Does the "N-word" bother you, or does it just bother you that you may be vilified for using it?

What about the other two kids, did they reinforce the profiling? If not why wouldnt you use them to profile?

Does this work both ways?


When I see kids like this should I think they are homicidal maniacs? Are they in a homicidal maniac posture?


when I see guys like this, what should I think?

is it fixable? I dont know. I do some profiling myself. Depending on where I'm at and the importance of me coming to the correct conclusion. But I would not use it to influence my actions towards someone.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Profiling
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2013, 11:43:28 PM »
The posturing was basically posing at me in a threatening manner, with his fist closed ready to hit me.

If the woman in the above picture was allowing her pelvis to hover within 6 inches of my face I would indeed be offended; particularly if she did not bother to keep her body parts from smacking into mine.

The low cut jeans on a female is not a deliberately anti-social statement.

I was taught that the N-word was a degrading and wrong word to say.  It's use offends me.  It also confuses and bewilders me.

The other 2 kids were dressed more modestly.  They appeared to be sidekicks to the more aggressive one.

I really don't form any opinions based on still photos.  They are in unnatural poses and outfits that may or may not reflect anything about the true nature of the subjects.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline The Gawd

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Re: Profiling
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2013, 07:54:08 AM »
The posturing was basically posing at me in a threatening manner, with his fist closed ready to hit me.
You think so? I cant say one way or another obviously, but I cant see the kid hitting you for the situation you described. I guess my point is, was he really posturing in a threatening manner or did you just read that into the situation?

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If the woman in the above picture was allowing her pelvis to hover within 6 inches of my face I would indeed be offended; particularly if she did not bother to keep her body parts from smacking into mine.
Id probably welcome her pelvis hovering above my face  :angel: but thats another story. fair enough though.

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The low cut jeans on a female is not a deliberately anti-social statement.
Are they not? Are they not provocative? Do you think some people are really offended by them? Do you think people who allow their pants to sag are waking up and saying, "what can I do to be deliberately anti-social?" or do you think its simply how they wear their pants?

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I was taught that the N-word was a degrading and wrong word to say.  It's use offends me.  It also confuses and bewilders me.
I certainly wouldnt suggest using it around us. I think you would have had more of a chance to be hit than earlier in the post. However, the way they were using it is likely different from how you would use it. When we use it (and I dont use it.....much.....and not around white people) it has NOTHING to do with color/race at all. Your white friend can be one, your dog, or your goldfish. Its more just a spot holder for the word person.

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The other 2 kids were dressed more modestly.  They appeared to be sidekicks to the more aggressive one.
How was their demeanor? Why not use those two as examples of your black kid profile?

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I really don't form any opinions based on still photos.  They are in unnatural poses and outfits that may or may not reflect anything about the true nature of the subjects.
I ask because those two were the Columbine shooters, the old guy was Bernie Madoff. But I see no need to take the worst of a group and apply it to the entire group. I can pull up photos of "regular" looking white people doing the most barbaric things (how about posing with the charred remains of people they lynched) and still not profile a whole race, and not feel threatened simply being in their presence (being stalked late at night is a separate issue)

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Profiling
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2013, 09:53:06 AM »

You think so? I cant say one way or another obviously, but I cant see the kid hitting you for the situation you described. I guess my point is, was he really posturing in a threatening manner or did you just read that into the situation.

From his reaction when I stood up I think there was no way he actually was going to hit me.  It was just posturing.  Like I said before he was really cute and if I wasn't so stressed, his dick wasn't in my face and he wasn't so obnoxious I would have barely noticed him.
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Are they not? Are they not provocative? Do you think some people are really offended by them?
They do offend a group that I am not part of.  I am ashamed to admit if that same woman in those same pants and top weighed 70-100 lbs more I would be in a different argument but let's not go there.

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Do you think people who allow their pants to sag are waking up and saying, "what can I do to be deliberately anti-social?" or do you think its simply how they wear their pants?

There are responses in this thread by Quesi and TruthOT which address this better than I possibly can.

If the following statement is 100% true...

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it has NOTHING to do with color/race at all. Your white friend can be one, your dog, or your goldfish. Its more just a spot holder for the word person.

Then why does this statement apply?
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I certainly wouldnt suggest using it around us. I think you would have had more of a chance to be hit than earlier in the post.

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However, the way they were using it is likely different from how you would use it. When we use it (and I dont use it.....much.....and not around white people)

I try to teach my son not to use language in public that is loud and obnoxious.  This kid's mom may have, too.  He clearly didn't pay attention.  Teenagers...


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Why not use those two as examples of your black kid profile?

I don't have a black kid profile.  Thug profile. I see hundreds of black kids who don't look or act like thugs.

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But I see no need to take the worst of a group and apply it to the entire group.

That is exactly what profiling is.  I don't see a  need for it either.  It happens automatically in reaction to certain behaviors or styles.  I guess I'm a very bad person because it happened to me another time when some geeky looking kids got on the train.  The first thing that went through my head was "Big Bang Theory."  Then they reinforced the stereotype by deciding an argument over candy with Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock.  I'm not making this up...

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I can pull up photos of "regular" looking white people doing the most barbaric things (how about posing with the charred remains of people they lynched)

Am I supposed to feel guilty because I am the same color as someone who lynched someone?  Generations removed from mine? How long do I have to hold this guilt? 
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline The Gawd

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Re: Profiling
« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2013, 10:57:41 AM »
If the following statement is 100% true...

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it has NOTHING to do with color/race at all. Your white friend can be one, your dog, or your goldfish. Its more just a spot holder for the word person.
Quote
Then why does this statement apply?

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I certainly wouldnt suggest using it around us. I think you would have had more of a chance to be hit than earlier in the post.

Quote
However, the way they were using it is likely different from how you would use it. When we use it (and I dont use it.....much.....and not around white people)

Because its the context of the usage. I know white people that do use it around their black friends, and there are no issues, I would be willing to bet that Eminem uses it around his close group of friends. Some Hispanics use it with each other, I know Paki/Indians that use it, but they grew up and are part of a culture that uses it. But I doubt they would use it around blacks they arent familiar with because they know the word and what could stem from it given the wrong circumstance.

On that same note a character like Uncle Ruckas in The Boondocks would likely risk physical harm if he was real despite being black. (youtube to understand what I'm talking about)

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I try to teach my son not to use language in public that is loud and obnoxious.  This kid's mom may have, too.  He clearly didn't pay attention.  Teenagers...
Yes perhaps.


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I don't have a black kid profile.  Thug profile. I see hundreds of black kids who don't look or act like thugs.

What is a thug? Are you implying that the kid likely was a criminal? I think it is important to get the definition of such a term because it can mean different things to different people. If your definition or description of thug is what the kid was doing, then to you he'd be a thug. If my definition of thug is a violent criminal then based on your anecdote he wouldnt reach that threshold. He'd be a teenager displaying little tact.

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That is exactly what profiling is.  I don't see a  need for it either.  It happens automatically in reaction to certain behaviors or styles.  I guess I'm a very bad person because it happened to me another time when some geeky looking kids got on the train.  The first thing that went through my head was "Big Bang Theory."  Then they reinforced the stereotype by deciding an argument over candy with Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock.  I'm not making this up...
I am saying that I think it is controllable. I dont think youre a very bad person at all by reading your posts, even this one. Rather the opposite. You already stated you were able to see past all that you saw as negative to determine that this was just a kid acting up. All I am saying is that it is fixable. I've had to do so with me profiling police. So, even though I remain suspicious in every dealing, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt until shown otherwise.

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Am I supposed to feel guilty because I am the same color as someone who lynched someone?  Generations removed from mine? How long do I have to hold this guilt? 


This reminds me of one of my favorite comedians Bill Burr



but no, its not to make anyone feel guilty, its to show that despite our history and predispositions even in cases that extreme, if we can NOT profile people, then I think its possible for you (and everyone else too)

And again, I do it to depending on the place Im at and the circumstances. There are places here in Chicago where I have to profile blacks/hispanics by what color theyre wearing, any particular logos or symbols they may have on, which way their hat is turned, etc and reconcile that with what I may have on... and it could be life or death if a mistake is made. Sometimes I have to determine whether a white guy's bald head and black boots means more than whether he likes his head shaved and likes army boots, or is there something else behind it. But I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt, all while choosing options to remain safe. Nah mean?
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 10:59:33 AM by The Gawd »

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Profiling
« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2013, 05:09:34 PM »


Because its the context of the usage. I know white people that do use it around their black friends, and there are no issues, I would be willing to bet that Eminem uses it around his close group of friends.

Eminem could call me whatever he wanted if he get that close to me...   ;)

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Are you implying that the kid likely was a criminal?

He is clearly the future leader of the 4 Train Sesame Street Underwear Gang.  :D

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  I think it is important to get the definition of such a term because it can mean different things to different people. If your definition or description of thug is what the kid was doing, then to you he'd be a thug. If my definition of thug is a violent criminal then based on your anecdote he wouldnt reach that threshold. He'd be a teenager displaying little tact.

Being a thug and acting like a thug are two different things.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/thug


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This reminds me of one of my favorite comedians Bill Burr

LMAO
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And again, I do it to depending on the place Im at and the circumstances. There are places here in Chicago where I have to profile blacks/hispanics by what color theyre wearing, any particular logos or symbols they may have on, which way their hat is turned, etc and reconcile that with what I may have on... and it could be life or death if a mistake is made. Sometimes I have to determine whether a white guy's bald head and black boots means more than whether he likes his head shaved and likes army boots, or is there something else behind it.

That is fricken' scary...
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Nam

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Re: Profiling
« Reply #39 on: July 24, 2013, 10:17:51 PM »
We need to ask ourselves where our paranoia comes from. We need to confront out prejudices. We need to make sure that our own fears don't translate directly into the deaths of others. We need to make sure that not all of our headlines come from instances of selfishness and stupidity. And we need to learn how to decide when something is broken so that we can fix it.

Yesterday I was on a train in NYC.  Three teenaged black males got on together.  One of them stood out in particular.  His T-Shirt was pulled up & laced through his backpack straps exposing his abs - not so bad on a hot day.  But his shorts were sagged so low they literally were balanced on his pubic bone, displaying his underwear for all the world to see.  His loud contribution to the conversation with his friends contained more N-words than the combined works of Paula Deen and Richard Pryor.  As he stood directly in front of me, hanging on to the luggage rack, he made no attempt to keep his Sesame Street waistband clad pelvis out of my face.  When the jolting of the train caused him to make physical contact with me, I lost it.   I gently but deliberately pushed him off of me.  He flipped, started posturing gangsta style, saying "don't touch me..."  I managed to remain calm, I stated "I was simply getting you off of me."  I have been told that when I am angry I look very scary.  His friend looked from me to him and told him "Stop, just stop."  He did.  When my stop came I said "Excuse me" and stood up, nearly a head taller than the little brat, he actually backed up quickly enough to trip a little.

I found it hard not to see that kid as a thug, his general disrespect for an obvious elder, his dress, showing his ass so the world can kiss it - isn't that what sagged pants are about, his conversation peppered with terms I would be vilified for using...

But he was really a cute kid, he had Sesame Street underwear for Chrissakes, he almost fell down when he realized the white lady was bigger than he was...

Is this even fixable???


I wear saggy pants, mainly because tighter pants hurt my knees (which I messed up in a car accident in '97). Of course you'd probably profile me, too.

I'm 6'4", I weigh 230 lbs, I have long hair and a beard. I've been told many times I look like a "scary guy".

With me I go out with the attitude, 'I don't trust anyone I do not know", so, everyone is suspect to me. Offline, online: doesn't matter.

But looks can be deceiving. Most "thugs" I've known wear nice clothes, speak politely, and always want to be "your" friend.

Not saying the opposite isn't always true as who a "thug" may be but then again...everyone can be suspect, so perhaps everyone should be until you get to know them better.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline LoriPinkAngel

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It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Traveler

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Re: Profiling
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2013, 12:44:08 PM »
This is great...

http://aattp.org/watch-what-happens-when-this-nyc-subway-panhandler-changes-the-usual-script/

Awesome!  ;D

Wouldn't it be great if more people stood up and talked about the good stuff?  :)
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Profiling
« Reply #42 on: August 04, 2013, 04:53:35 PM »
That was so nice.   I loved the part about his family going to the Grand Canyon: "I highly recommend it!"

One of the things I like about living in the US--we produce some very unique and uninhibited people. US culture is one of the most positive and optimistic on the planet. Fist bumps for everyone! 8)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.