Author Topic: Looking for some info...  (Read 307 times)

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Offline natlegend

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Looking for some info...
« on: July 15, 2013, 08:53:08 PM »
Howdy. I dropped this in Chatter because I'm just looking for some info and don't expect any debate...

Is there a term for describing a person's position whereby they believe that we (life, the universe, everything) is the way it is because if it weren't, we wouldn't be here talking about it... and is that the same as the analogy where the puddle of water thinks to itself "Oh wow, isn't it amazing that I live in a hole just the right size for me; if it were any smaller, I'd spill out; if it were any larger, then I wouldn't fill it up; this hole was made just for me!"

??

It's a bit hard to put the above into a google search...  &)

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: Looking for some info...
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2013, 08:56:51 PM »
I've heard it referred to as the Goldilocks universe - everything is 'just right'.

Nat, did you know that if you were any shorter your legs wouldn't touch the ground? You're the perfect height... ;)
Go on up you baldhead.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Looking for some info...
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2013, 09:01:16 PM »
Actually that's another take on it, MM - whereby one believes that if things weren't just so, Earth wouldn't have us on it, therefore (usually) God.

The idea that natlegend is describing is the anthropic principle, which is a way of taking into account the bias in our reasoning that we have just by existing.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline wright

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Re: Looking for some info...
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2013, 09:14:19 PM »
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Offline natlegend

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Re: Looking for some info...
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2013, 09:24:15 PM »
Ah, cheers for the link. Is this a concept that would be held by some or most atheists, do you think? To me it seems the easiest concept regarding my place in the universe...
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline wright

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Re: Looking for some info...
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2013, 10:12:20 PM »
Ah, cheers for the link. Is this a concept that would be held by some or most atheists, do you think? To me it seems the easiest concept regarding my place in the universe...

It seems more in keeping with a theist or deist way of thinking to me. When I contemplate what we know of the universe, I don't see any deliberate provision for living systems. At best, we and every living thing we know of are happy (from our standpoint) accidents that will endure for a brief fraction of the universe's existence.

That may sound bleak, but it doesn't mean we can't have fun, explore, learn and value each other in the time that we have.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 10:15:49 PM by wright »
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Looking for some info...
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2013, 10:18:54 PM »
To which concept are you referring, wright?

The anthropic principle just means that certain situations will only be observed if they yield conscious beings to observe them.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline natlegend

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Re: Looking for some info...
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2013, 01:19:19 AM »
My reading of the link suggests there are several different variations on this concept... I can see the deist POV, but more prevelantly I see an uncomplicated view where "If things weren't as they are, we wouldn't be discussing this".
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Offline wright

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Re: Looking for some info...
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2013, 10:35:32 PM »
To which concept are you referring, wright?

The anthropic principle just means that certain situations will only be observed if they yield conscious beings to observe them.

Sorry for not being clearer. I was referring to this variation of the SAP, in the "Variations" section of the wiki:

Quote
Strong anthropic principle (SAP) (Barrow and Tipler): "The Universe must have those properties which allow life to develop within it at some stage in its history."[21]
This looks very similar to Carter's SAP, but unlike the case with Carter's SAP, the "must" is an imperative, as shown by the following three possible elaborations of the SAP, each proposed by Barrow and Tipler:[22]

    "There exists one possible Universe 'designed' with the goal of generating and sustaining 'observers'."

        This can be seen as simply the classic design argument restated in the garb of contemporary cosmology. It implies that the purpose of the universe is to give rise to intelligent life, with the laws of nature and their fundamental physical constants set to ensure that life as we know it will emerge and evolve.

Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius