Author Topic: Zimmerman Verdict  (Read 15234 times)

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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Zimmerman Verdict
« on: July 13, 2013, 11:10:06 PM »
http://www.alternet.org/breaking-george-zimmerman-acquitted-trayvon-martin-case#overlay=admin/content/front-page-editions

Any thoughts?
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Tears in my eyes. A young man's life gone because of one ignorant idiot. I heard the definition of manslaughter that they gave to that jury and it doesn't seem that the prosecution proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt. But the real, honest, common sense truth we all know is GZ had no business getting out of his vehicle. I think a large percentage of teens would have confronted him, maybe even kicked his ass. If he stayed in his car where he belonged no one would be dead. I am heartbroken that he is not being held accountable.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Astreja

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2013, 11:59:00 PM »
But the real, honest, common sense truth we all know is GZ had no business getting out of his vehicle. I think a large percentage of teens would have confronted him, maybe even kicked his ass. If he stayed in his car where he belonged no one would be dead. I am heartbroken that he is not being held accountable.

That's essentially it -- If Zimmerman had not followed Martin, Martin would be alive.  If Zimmerman had stayed in his car, Martin would be alive.  He chose to act in a way that caused a death and I expected to see a manslaughter verdict at the very least.
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Offline Nam

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2013, 12:01:18 AM »
If Martin was white, and Zimmerman was black I bet he would've been charged with 2nd degree murder. But I may be wrong.

-Nam
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Offline William

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2013, 12:07:59 AM »
Zimmerman is a good Catholic boy too - probably start getting job offers from "gated communities" to train their neighbourhood watch volunteers  &)
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2013, 12:39:52 AM »
Be interested to hear what reason Z gave for being outside his vehicle. Has this been reported?
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Offline Nam

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2013, 12:45:16 AM »
He had to pee.

;)

-Nam
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Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2013, 12:48:21 AM »
Sure is nice that we don't have to take responsibility for anything any more. All we have to say is that we were suspicious because of our prejudices, so we did whatever we did and shouldn't get in trouble. Hey, just because someone ended up dead doesn't mean that our errors were bad or anything.

We need a new crime: Guilty of being so stupid that someone ends up dead. Or guilty of being so paranoid that someone ends up dead. We could call it "First degree fearslaughter ".

In the meantime, I'm gonna figure out who I can kill while being suspicious. That'll be the new fad now, and I wanna get in on it.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2013, 01:29:31 AM »
But the real, honest, common sense truth we all know is GZ had no business getting out of his vehicle. I think a large percentage of teens would have confronted him, maybe even kicked his ass. If he stayed in his car where he belonged no one would be dead. I am heartbroken that he is not being held accountable.

That's essentially it -- If Zimmerman had not followed Martin, Martin would be alive.  If Zimmerman had stayed in his car, Martin would be alive.  He chose to act in a way that caused a death and I expected to see a manslaughter verdict at the very least.

The definition of manslaughter they were given was very similar to self defense - when he fired the gun he had to have reasonable expectation that his life was in danger.  No one proved Trayvon was not kicking his ass at that point.  I think if "Man II" had been on the table they could have gotten a conviction.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2013, 01:33:10 AM »

In the meantime, I'm gonna figure out who I can kill while being suspicious. That'll be the new fad now, and I wanna get in on it.

Some dark skinned kids keep cutting through my backyard & making my dog yap.  I fear they may have deadly Skittles.  Now that I know that it is legal to shoot black children I may have to take action.   :police:   :'(
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Timo

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2013, 04:52:41 AM »
I think that this is an especially sad day for any of us with young black men and boys in our lives.  This is a sad day for those of us that love them.  For those of us that have been them.  That are them.

I can't help but think about every time my mother told me to be careful.  And talking to her last night, it broke my heart a little to hear her say those words again.  I just hope that I can hold it together next time I have to tell one of these young, beautiful black children that they need to be careful.

Nah son...

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2013, 05:51:55 AM »
Quote
That you, on your own, decided George Zimmerman's guilt or innocence based on your sense of whether or not he killed Trayvon Martin is fine. It is your opinion. But when those six women, exhausted and perhaps frustrated, emerge from their sequestration to announce their verdict, remember that your disagreement is worth little to nothing. You didn't see the case they did. And the case they saw was the only one that matters.

Full op-ed piece:
http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-jury-better-able-judge-fate-162313256.html
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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2013, 07:45:00 AM »
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2013, 07:54:41 AM »
Duplicate thread OAA:

whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,25192.msg562958/topicseen.html#msg562958
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Online One Above All

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2013, 07:56:03 AM »
I noticed that a few minutes after posting this thread, but now there's nothing I can do about it. Sorry.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2013, 08:03:20 AM »
I doubt the forum will self destruct.
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Online One Above All

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2013, 08:08:50 AM »
I doubt the forum will self destruct.

That's what they said when I tried to enter a church, back when I was Lucifer.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2013, 08:11:24 AM by One Above All »
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2013, 08:33:26 AM »
What is your opinion?
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Online One Above All

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2013, 08:39:04 AM »
What is your opinion?


From what I understand, Mr. Zimmerman followed Trayvon, against the advice of the police (911), because he thought Trayvon looked "suspicious". This, in itself, shows how bigoted he was. He then proceeded to shoot the kid.
IMO he should have been sent to jail, as any other person would/should have.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2013, 08:44:08 AM »
Quote
That you, on your own, decided George Zimmerman's guilt or innocence based on your sense of whether or not he killed Trayvon Martin is fine. It is your opinion. But when those six women, exhausted and perhaps frustrated, emerge from their sequestration to announce their verdict, remember that your disagreement is worth little to nothing. You didn't see the case they did. And the case they saw was the only one that matters.

Full op-ed piece:
http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-jury-better-able-judge-fate-162313256.html

I was most dismayed that the defense was allowed to use that video "illustration" in the closing that was not allowed as evidence.  It clearly portrayed Trayvon as the aggressor.  But it was fiction.  It was only one man's story with no proof and very inflammatory and I think it convicted Trayvon of his own death.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Nick

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2013, 09:21:20 AM »
I guess it is on to TV interviews and the big book deals.  Murder does pay off.  And it can't be because of race.  Remember, the Supreme Court said race was over.  That is why we no longer needed the Voting Rights Act.
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #20 on: July 14, 2013, 09:29:23 AM »
I've thought about this some more. I still conclude:

Zimmerman was wrong about his suspicions.
He was wrong to call 911.
He was wrong to follow the kid.
He was wrong to get out of his car and confront the kid.
He was wrong to kill Trayvon.

And, if Trayvon had instead been white and named Trevor, Zimmerman would be spending the rest of his life in jail.

We still have a lot of work to do on this prejudice thing. And a lot of work to do on fear. Until those two things can be eliminated, we will continue to have tragedies such as this one. And continue to have a divided nation where half are shocked and hurt about the verdict, and the other half elated (I don't know the percentages but it closer to half than a 99/1 split).

In the meantime, our incompetence as a society and as individuals will continue to kill on a regular basis. And our incompetence as prosecutors and jurors,  and our plethora of sensation-based "journalists", will accurately reflect the state of our country.

The only thing Trayvon was guilty of was being born several hundred years too soon. He missed slavery, but not 2012.



Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #21 on: July 14, 2013, 09:52:55 AM »
I guess it is on to TV interviews and the big book deals.  Murder does pay off.  And it can't be because of race.  Remember, the Supreme Court said race was over.  That is why we no longer needed the Voting Rights Act.

Am I way off in saying this isn't all about race?  This is somewhat about men and their penises?!?  A little man wants to show how big his is and persue a boy that he finds suspicious.  A teenaged boy wants to show how big his is when confronted by a "creepy ass cracker."  A District Attorney  wants to show how big his is by bringing charges bigger than he can prove. The Defense Attorney showed how big his was making the victim look like a perp. Nobody wins.  A boy is Dead.  A mother is forever heartbroken.  A man has blood on his hands.  A legal system is tainted.  A nation is divided.  Six women  had to make a heart wrenching decision.  Because some men wanted to show their dicks.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline shnozzola

Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #22 on: July 14, 2013, 10:27:26 AM »
My wife followed the trial closely - she is watching TV and ranting as I type.  As a member of the jury, with only what I have followed, I would have chose manslaughter charges, although I agree with the wisdom against "an eye for an eye."

After hearing that George told the police dispatcher that he was watching a quote - fucking coon - unquote, that would have sealed my vote as a juror.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #23 on: July 14, 2013, 11:47:39 AM »
Well, he will have the pleasure of watching over his back for the rest of his life.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Online Willie

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #24 on: July 14, 2013, 12:18:01 PM »
Some things to keep in mind.

1. A "not guilty" verdict is not a positive declaration that one did not commit a crime. It only means that the jury believed that there was a reasonable doubt. "He probably did it" is not adequate grounds for a conviction. This aspect of our legal system is a very important principle, though it comes at the cost that sometimes the guilty will go unpunished.

2. We, members of the general public, were not in that courtroom hearing the entirety of every witness testimony, every tidbit of evidence, and every legal argument for the whole duration of this case. What we heard were just whatever tidbits someone thought worthy to highlight on various news and opinion shows and websites, and that choice is as likely to be driven by ratings potential as by informational value. What we heard was lots and lots of opinion, both informed and otherwise, both rational and emotional (but mostly emotional, from both sides). What we heard was endless speculation, most with little or no supporting evidence. The reality is that we are in no position to have even the slightest credibility for rendering a judgement. Can any of you say with certainty that you would not have reached the same decision if you had been a member of that jury?

3. Zimmerman did a lot of things wrong, but being an idiot and an asshole is not, in itself, a crime. Nor should it be the basis of judging one guilty. The charges that had to be proved beyond a reasonable doubt were murder or manslaughter, not racism, profiling, stupidity, machismo, having some kind of inferiority complex, or just general douche-baggery.

4. Racial bias in other cases is irrelevant. It may be true that many cases are judged wrongly due to racism, but only if racism can be shown to have biased the judge or jury in this case does it have any relevance to this case.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #25 on: July 14, 2013, 12:27:06 PM »
My wife followed the trial closely - she is watching TV and ranting as I type.  As a member of the jury, with only what I have followed, I would have chose manslaughter charges, although I agree with the wisdom against "an eye for an eye."

After hearing that George told the police dispatcher that he was watching a quote - fucking coon - unquote, that would have sealed my vote as a juror.

Does this mean you are prejudiced against prejudice? I am. That would get us both shot in about 20 states.

And Willie, you are probably right about the legal details, but that only means that our legal system is somewhat lacking in certain areas. How shocking.

The man made bad choices, based on his preconceived notions and prejudices and fantasies of power tripping, and someone else died. If our legal system can't handle that, it needs to voluntarily step down.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Nick

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #26 on: July 14, 2013, 01:53:02 PM »
Any bets on how long it will take him to thank God when he does speak?
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #27 on: July 14, 2013, 03:38:41 PM »
I had been watching this from the outside, and I have a few thoughts:

1) I see the same story / drama play out on American TV over and over again.
2) I can see how Zimmerman is not guilty under the existing law.
2b) If you (not you you, I mean the country "you") want guns and "stand your ground" laws, then you have to accept that this was all legal.
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Offline JeffPT

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Re: Zimmerman Verdict
« Reply #28 on: July 14, 2013, 04:34:10 PM »
Quote
That you, on your own, decided George Zimmerman's guilt or innocence based on your sense of whether or not he killed Trayvon Martin is fine. It is your opinion. But when those six women, exhausted and perhaps frustrated, emerge from their sequestration to announce their verdict, remember that your disagreement is worth little to nothing. You didn't see the case they did. And the case they saw was the only one that matters.

This is my feeling too. I didn't pay close attention to the case, but if the jurors sat through the whole thing and decided he wasn't guilty, who are we to think otherwise? Why do some people think they are better qualified to decide innocence or guilt with far less information than the jury had?  It doesn't matter how it looks from our limited, media-fed position; the people with the facts saw it the way they did.

This paragraph is a bit misleading though, I think.  It looked to me that nobody was trying to figure out whether GZ killed TM.  That seemed the given. They were trying to decide self defense versus murder. Or did I miss something?



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