Is It Rolling, Bob?

[DVZ3]

... You don't look bored <looks at your avatar pic leaning against the wall>..... Oh...

[Umar]

Umar, you mentioned you were given a bible. We're you also given the Torah to read and examine in the same way or any other of the many religious texts?

Have you read DVZ3's 300 pages of mysteries finally answered? It's due to be published in a few forms for different marketing demographics.

For true Christians it's called - The New Knew testament - King Lebron James (he's a French king)

For plain ole Christians who don't reed the bible - Spreading the word of god like Margerine cus it taste good and it feels like the reel Buddha.

For people who claim the Christian bible is the only truth - Heres other stuff to read 'For Dummies'

In other words, have you started to read other religious books yet and compare?

I think this is very important, and yes I have. In my previous websites I have published (and thus proofread) various translations of the Dhammapada, Four Noble Truths, Analects Of Confucius, Qur'an, Bhagavad Gita,  Pirqe Aboth, Nihongi, Kojiki, Tao Te Ching, Chuang Tzu. I have also written brief histories of Buddhism, Confucianism, Shintoism, and Taoism on my website, with more to come. I will be adding as many religious texts as I can find on my website, and more brief histories on Christianity, Judaism, Islam, and Hinduism, which I have also an interest in.

[DVZ3]

I'm curious where you will go with this discussion because I have my cousins reply's as well as mine to many others.

Let's see how well god, jesus, the bible can communicate to people - Not just gays who were born sinners. 

Your cousin sounds as if he is lost in a rolling sea of platitudes. Deep down beneath the scratched surface there is a void he thinks he can fill by walking the walk and talking the talk. He probably doesn't believe a word of it.

Megan is near the mark, especially her literal reference as sin meaning a missing of the mark. Though she would have your cousin accept homosexuality, when he doesn't, and shouldn't have to just because it is the thing to do.

My beliefs based upon the Bible are very similar to the JWs, in that they are apolitical. We see the congregation as no part of the world, thus not influencing it in any way through legislation or political affiliation. Let them decide for themselves if gay marriage is acceptable, and let the congregation decide for themselves. Without interference from either side to the other.

Your response is less tolerant and informed as Megan's, it seems to me. Science is the imperfect interpretation of the world around us just as theology is the imperfect interpretation of creation by the creator.

Good deal, I was hoping you would answer as I will give his reponse to mine posted on not only science - but history, knowledge, and most importantly reason. Also, I think my response "is the most tolerant" to history and our reality to which a creator is the big QUESTION that has not and cannot be proven. History however can be analysed and looked for historical accuracy.

History hasn't very good with religous goals, beliefs, nonsense, and a proven track record of being 'flat out' wrong <insert flat earth here and bannishing Galileo>

I will also use my history as see if I can offer a 'copy/paste' response from him

Actually, people need to belive that they were born in sin. Yes, I believe that being gay is wrong, it's a sin, because it's not part of God's character. If you steal it makes you a thief = sin. If you lie makes you a liar = sin. Porn, lust, murder, homosexuality, pride, covetousness, greed, envy, drunkeness are all sin. There is no mental gymnastics here. They are all wrong and we are all born into them. We are all born sinners. We have all done one if not more of these things. Not just gays/lesbians, everyone is born a sinner, everyone's life is sinful because everyone has sinned and missed this mark.

It's simple. There's no gymnastics here at all, no circular reasoning, no bigotry, no prejudice. Sin, is against every single person. And it is a supernatural connotation, first and foremost. Yes, it's true that society runs better when these things dont happen, like murder, or stealing, or adultery. It's true that we've discovered more things that we dont do because it prevents growth, but it still doesnt change what sin is, which is not just 'bad things that society shouldnt do.'

I dont have to accept your way of thinking and you dont have to accept mine. I won't ever think that being gay is right, or any other sin. You may think that there's nothing wrong with being gay, you may always think that. It's the way things are and always will be.

But the issue is, even though we hold completely opposite beliefs, we don't have to hate each other, which is what people come to. As soon as i or you dont accept or tolerate what you or I believe in, one party or both end up hating each other. That's my issue. That's my concern, which is peace. I hope this new law brings peace to some degree, which it prolly wont.

 Just because we dont accept or tolerate what the other believes, doesnt mean we cannot be friends, family, hang out, etc. It doesnt mean we cant love each other. It means we live different lifestyles. Just because I dont accept gay marriage, being drunk, sex before marriage, one may think me as a bigot/oppressive/whatever because I dont accept those things, you are doing the same thing by not tolerating my unacceptance of your lifestyle.We are both unaccepting toward the opposite's unacceptance

But like I said, we don't have to hate one another. We dont have to become filled wi th rage or hurtful towards one another. We can all be able to love one
in peace and be friends. We can go to dinner, have fun celebrate festivals. But what i hate, is the hatred between people like the gay haters or the westboro baptists .

Thats why i dont argue with people, because there's no peace. I try in all things, to have and make peace above all else. But the truth is, sometimes peace will not be made.

[Umar]

Good deal, I was hoping you would answer as I will give his reponse to mine posted on not only science - but history, knowledge, and most importantly reason. Also, I think my response "is the most tolerant" to history and our reality to which a creator is the big QUESTION that has not and cannot be proven. History however can be analysed and looked for historical accuracy.

History hasn't very good with religous goals, beliefs, nonsense, and a proven track record of being 'flat out' wrong <insert flat earth here and bannishing Galileo>

I am fortunate that I was able to retire (at least for now) at a very early age. In nearly 20 years of discussion and debate on forums like this I have come across 3 people who I thought had an academic understanding of the Bible that could compare to my own. 1 of them was a theist, the other two atheist. None of which I agreed with but admired and enjoyed discourse with.

The two atheist in particular were enjoyable. They both had something in common. An interest in history with no religious beliefs or connections. It seems that a true historian, no matter their theological leanings, appreciates the Bible as Sir Issac Newton himself, the leading examiner of ancient texts as the foremost in accuracy and import.

Here is a discussion I had with a wonderfully informed atheist on the SAB forum. Discussion The atheist is Rambo, I later discontinued that account so I have no name there, but I start out with "I tell you what buddy. Lets do it this way. You do it. I will help you, of course, but you do it. "

[DVZ3]

... A Bible was given to me which I had never read. As an atheist I decided to read it in order to debunk...

This guy is ... all of a sudden... able to start debunking all 'crosses' of knowledge and books to be 'bared'... After being given a bible.

I'm starting to think Nam is dead on with this 'character'... This character is a liar!

Why are you starting with false motives Umar!?  Oh how Christian of you....

[Umar]

... A Bible was given to me which I had never read. As an atheist I decided to read it in order to debunk...

This guy is ... all of a sudden... able to start debunking all 'crosses' of knowledge and books to be 'bared'... After being given a bible.

I'm starting to think Nam is dead on with this 'character'... This character is a liar!

Why are you starting with false motives Umar!?

You are talking about a 20 year journey. This didn't happen overnight, and anyway, rather than calling me a liar why not put me to the test. It would be far more interesting.

[DVZ3]

Why will I burn in hell as an atheist?

[DVZ3]

Why will my loving,caring wife burn in hell because she came from parent who never taugh/shown her any 'group' known as religion?

[DVZ3]

Why when I watch the history channel on the dark ages is religion on the wrong side of history?

[DVZ3]

Why was slavery only abolished about a century ago when the bible clearly advocates it?

[DVZ3]

Why does religion always come in politics when there's supposed to be separation of church and state?

[DVZ3]

Why do far right republicans look so crazy but yet have the 'silver tongue' of god and do not get voted for anymore?

[DVZ3]

Why do religious people still join forums like this to try and preach to the people that... Already figured out that your way of thinking is on the wrong side of history and becoming obsolete?

[DVZ3]

Most importantly for the name of the forum - why can you or nor anyone come up with anything remotely supernatural for which you speak as proof.

If you expect us to believe the unbelievable then the proof must be solidified and unanimous - science does this the best we currently know how. There is no debate about science with the exception of people of faith.

Why do you debate science/knowledge if you do not contain the credentials to do so?

Science is about celebrating "I don't know" and then uncovering the mystery where you pretend to have all the answers for everything. It's ok not to know something as an adult even after 20 years of study..l

[Umar]

Why will I burn in hell as an atheist?

Are you asking me this question now?

Hell is a pagan teaching not supported by the Bible.

[Umar]

Why will my loving,caring wife burn in hell because she came from parent who never taugh/shown her any 'group' known as religion?

Are you listening to me? Hell is pagan. God will destroy religion. The chip on your shoulder is a product of your own ignorance. Who judges you and your wife? Fortunately it isn't yourselves. It would be better for your sakes if it were I that judge you but that isn't the case either. Watch out that you don't fuck that all up with the stupid shit in your head. Not that any of that is real outside of a politically social misdirection.

Bullshit. Is Bullshit. Wise up. Or, join some group of upper class american dancers . . . an island of the quixotic in a rolling sea of blatant stupidity 'cause it makes you feel good about the absence of your self, gladly, apparently, for a myopic and moronic sense of being slapped on the back by idiots worse off than your stupid self.

Idiot on a book signing arrogant trip are a dime a dozen.

Wake up. 

[Umar]

Why when I watch the history channel on the dark ages is religion on the wrong side of history?

Your efforts of enlightenment are . . . sad. But, nevertheless, the dark ages are a product of your own thinking. History on the wrong side of what? Religion was used in a political sense to achieve power. You ain't no better than that, 'cause it repeats itself.

Galaleo? Study you Thomas Aquinas. The Church. The conflict of science.

You fucked that up. You might want to reexamine that unless you just want to trip up the atheist tripe.

[DVZ3]

Bullshit is bullshit...

So why do you start a discussion talking of getting rammed in the butt Umar?

Your name spelled backwards is "ramU" so you must explain the coincidence.... Otherwise we may all may feel like we're being takin for a ride.

[Umar]

Why does religion always come in politics when there's supposed to be separation of church and state?

Isn't it obvious? Because religion is a tool for politics to fuck your blind ignorant ass. That is your fucking problem not mine. I got better sense than that.

[Umar]

Why was slavery only abolished about a century ago when the bible clearly advocates it?

Here we undoubtedly go. Introduction threads are not public forums for debate, but the intellectual retard can't wait.

Enlighten your self to the concept of Slavery.

Slavery isn't an American / British thing. It's human. God regulated it, and as such, the British and American concept of slavery was against Biblical principals. Most likely as an idiot atheist, you object to slavery. And have no idea what you are talking about.

Political prisoner in the enlightened age sets you in a prison. Slavery to theft or endebtedness are perfectly perpendicular to your fucked up ideaology.

If, in short, you had a brain, it would reside somewhere in the vacinity of your anal cavity.

Stimulating as it would undoubtedly be, I would render you unconsious with a hefty object to save the dregs of humanity from being sucked into the shit.

Know what I mean?

[Azdgari]

Isn't it obvious? Because religion is a tool for politics to fuck your blind ignorant ass. That is your fucking problem not mine. I got better sense than that.

Actually that's something that becomes every individual's problem, no matter how much sense that individual has.  Stupid laws (etc.) affect us all.

Religion is a tool of politics.  Theism is a tool of religion.  And you are a tool of theism.  You're a part of the system, too.

[Umar]

Why does religion always come in politics when there's supposed to be separation of church and state?

Because most people, like you, are idiots and can't tell the difference.

[Umar]

Why do far right republicans look so crazy but yet have the 'silver tongue' of god and do not get voted for anymore?

That they don't get voted for anymore is certainly debatable, but that vacant ignorant stare into history repeated is due to the ignorance and propaganda of themselves which you obviously prescribe.

Uh . . . you lost. The idiiot superstitious won.

Not surprising really when you examine the stupidity of the unorganized atheist hovering in a dark and wet corner of intellectual masturbation licking his own wounds in the obscure possibility that one day he will call all the shots.

[Laughs] Oh, if only. We could do away with the answer of sin without the bullshit of idiot theist or idiot atheists.

You! You though - are insignifiacant.

[DVZ3]

Didn't you already read my post before you started answering all the questions? 

Thanks for playing...

Another good read!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_War

[Umar]

Actually that's something that becomes every individual's problem, no matter how much sense that individual has.  Stupid laws (etc.) affect us all.

Religion is a tool of politics.  Theism is a tool of religion.  And you are a tool of theism.  You're a part of the system, too.

Oh! Jeze, folks, here is someone with an original thought. A thinking man, if you will. In that he actually has a point of contention.

Every individual's problem is politically motivated. You can take the theology out of it but that, in a practical sense, only demonstrates your social and political frustration.

The fact is, most likely, that you live in a democratic society. A loathsome concept, democracy, 51% of the masses controls 49%. That's your politics, not mine. Fuck 'em all, I say. Sit back and watch them kill each other.

Stupid laws were created by your ignorance in the theological because you were obtuse enough to fuck it up in a political sense. You lost. According to the rules of the game, which, by the way had you bothered to educate yourself without an emotional or political affiliation, wouldn't make a fucking bit of difference anyway, is your own fucking outright gross stupidity.
You either try to copy them or subject yourself to ignorance in the name of the game you lost.

And you shouldn't have. Had just one of you been heard above the political and just total stupidity in the hopes of some quixotic idealism you would have gotten it, but you got a chip on your shoulder that blinds you.

You don't know the Bible. You don't know God. You don't know you. and you don't know anything else.

[Umar]

Didn't you already read my post before you started answering all the questions? 

Thanks for playing...

Another good read!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Art_of_War

AH, the obligatory Wiki article of the lame.

A pity. I thought when you mentioned history you would be an interesting discussion.

I, uh, I don't think that you have the intellectual capacity of, lets say, plywood, or Winnie The Pooh.

Pity.

Interesting, though . . . for the archivist . . . in hindsight, looking at this interaction. Where did you go wrong?!

[Azdgari]

Every individual's problem is politically motivated. You can take the theology out of it but that, in a practical sense, only demonstrates your social and political frustration.  ...

That's not what I said.  I said that political problems are everybody's problems, not that everybody's problems are always political.

As for the rest, you know nothing about me.  Stop pretending to.  Though I find the idea that stupid laws were created because of some quality that you think I possess to be...amusing.  Last I checked, many stupid laws predated my existence on this planet.

[Azdgari]

You seem pretty trollish so far, Umar.  Like you just came here to insult people and waste their time.  Is that so?

[pianodwarf]

OK, this has clearly gone way beyond the boundaries of an "introduction" thread.  I'd split everything off and move it to the appropriate forums, but there's so much going on that it would simply take too long (during which time, others would continue posting replies, thus preventing me from completing the process).

Accordingly, I am locking this thread.  If you wish to continue the discussion, please start another thread in the appropriate forum, then copy and paste from this thread as needed to avoid disrupting the flow of conversation.