Author Topic: Funny Comic  (Read 2587 times)

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Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Funny Comic
« Reply #58 on: July 20, 2013, 03:31:47 PM »
The impossible standard that SW proposes for "science" means that there is no such thing as science.

If there are no standards, just say so.  I'll agree.
All I have requested is support for the claim that the scientific method allows for processing information without experimentation or repeatable experiments intended to duplicate past events.   Not one example of any such standard has been offered. One person claimed that the methods were "very clever".  Fail.  Methodologies are standardized and published or there are none.  Please provide one....for starters. Let me help:

Global Cross-database NCBI Search
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/gquery

http://scholar.google.com/
 
People have complained that 3rd Grade diagrams are all lies to little ones.

So I provide grown-up references for the more literate:

Proteomics meets the scientific method
http://www.nature.com/nmeth/journal/v10/n1/full/nmeth.2291.html

What is the `scientific method''?
http://physics.ucr.edu/~wudka/Physics7/Notes_www/node6.html
« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 03:56:52 PM by SkyWriting »

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Funny Comic
« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2013, 04:10:49 PM »
I don't get the "reproducible" part that SW keeps on about.

All data must be reproducible and reevaluated by others. We Christians call it "Science."
 

Quote
Where is the peer reviewed methodology? Where are the controlled studies? Can you imagine if any scientist or researcher tried to get away with that kind of sh!t? They'd be laughed out of whatever job they had.

All 22,000 peer reviewed articles on prayer?   You think?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=prayer

Predicting lower levels of depression at the follow-up were preoperative use of prayer for coping, optimism, and hope. Predicting lower levels of anxiety at the follow-up were subjective religiousness, marital status, and hope. Predicting poorer adjustment were reverence in religious contexts, preoperative mental health symptoms, and medical comorbidity. Including optimism and hope in the model did not eliminate effects of religious factors.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2982210/
« Last Edit: July 20, 2013, 04:14:12 PM by SkyWriting »

Online nogodsforme

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Re: Funny Comic
« Reply #60 on: August 06, 2013, 03:41:39 PM »
Religious belief in the power of prayer is not supported by science. There are just unsupported, untested, undocumented personal anecdotes:
a)"God told me to stay home that day and a gunman shot up the subway I would have been on."
b)"I had a headache and I prayed and it went away."
c)"I prayed and god helped me ace the test.[1]

Whenever these beliefs are subjected to controlled situations with peer review, they are shown to be groundless. Scientists have not given up on religion, even with a track record of zero. That is why there continue to be studies like the ones you mention.

I looked at some of the peer reviewed articles on prayer. Did you read any of them, SkyWriting? Because they don't support any of the things you are saying.

Here is what they show: Prayer, like meditation or listening to music or engaging in many other types of ordinary human activities can have positive benefits on the person engaging in the activity. People generally feel better after doing these activities. No big surprise. When people do things that they like and think will make them feel better, they often feel better.

For people who believe in a god or gods, communicating with those beings through prayer will probably make them feel better. Oddly enough, it does not matter what god people pray to-- they feel better. Either the positive effect of prayer is independent of what god is being prayed to, and the action of prayer itself is what matters, or all the different gods people pray to actually exist and make the person praying feel better supernaturally. Or there is only one god and he answers everyone's prayers--whether from Hindus, Muslims, or Satanists-- supernaturally. Which do you think is the case?

However, there is not a single study that shows any supernatural component to prayer. When sick people are prayed for by other people, and they know they are being prayed for, they actually do slightly worse than people who are not being prayed for-- or who are being prayed for and don't know it.  Researchers think that people are less likely to take their medicine or follow other doctor's orders when they know they are being prayed for. If prayer worked supernaturally, you would not see such a discrepancy based on people knowing or not knowing about the prayers.

So, no. Prayer does not produce any real measurable positive effect different from meditation or listening to music, and may actually make people worse off.  When studied scientifically, prayer has produce a big fat fail. So far. What else you got?
 1. a)God did not prevent the gunman from shooting other people--don't you feel special? b)The vast majority of headaches go away. c)You probably studied, at least a bit. People pray and fail tests, too. Usually because they did not study.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Funny Comic
« Reply #61 on: August 06, 2013, 04:35:08 PM »
Someone praying for me would piss me off and worsen my medical situation. Someone praying for an ill Pat Robertson (but I repeat myself) would make him feel better. I have a new age friend who thinks that she got better because she was surrounded by crystals given to her by new age friends. Anything perceived as positive has a chance of helping a person with medical problems. And that includes prayer for those who believe in or are willing to try to believe init.

Note that the same publication that SkyWriting linked to also has numerous articles about the benefits of yoga and yoga-type meditation and its positive benefits for people who are dealing with a variety of medical problems.

Animal therapy companions are also helpful, be they in children's hospitals or nursing homes. Which means that there are a variety of ways to make a person feel more positive in threatening situations.

At least dogs and cats are real. But it doesn't seem to matter much. Perception is the key. Not reality.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Online nogodsforme

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Re: Funny Comic
« Reply #62 on: August 06, 2013, 04:48:46 PM »
I have an example where someone praying can make a situation worse-- a nurse said "god bless you" as she wheeled me into an operating room. It freaked me out because it made me think I was more sick than I was--did she know something they weren't telling me?

She gave me something to worry about-- and that could have increased my stress level and negatively affected my surgery. Before she said that, I was perfectly calm, trusting the doctors and looking forward to a positive outcome.

I wish I had had the moxie to reply, "And may god eff you six ways from Sunday for scaring me," as I was wheeled in.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Online jdawg70

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Re: Funny Comic
« Reply #63 on: August 06, 2013, 05:39:20 PM »
All 22,000 peer reviewed articles on prayer?   You think?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=prayer
22,000+ results from a search of the term 'prayer' on the NCBI website does not mean 22,000 peer reviewed articles.  Also, your habit of posting links to search results is annoying.  Please stop that.
Quote
Predicting lower levels of depression at the follow-up were preoperative use of prayer for coping, optimism, and hope. Predicting lower levels of anxiety at the follow-up were subjective religiousness, marital status, and hope. Predicting poorer adjustment were reverence in religious contexts, preoperative mental health symptoms, and medical comorbidity. Including optimism and hope in the model did not eliminate effects of religious factors.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2982210/
I suggest you read the entirety of the study you're citing here.  I don't think it's saying what you think it's saying.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline stuffin

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Re: Funny Comic
« Reply #64 on: August 06, 2013, 09:14:37 PM »
I don't get the "reproducible" part that SW keeps on about.

All data must be reproducible and reevaluated by others. We Christians call it "Science."
 

Quote
Where is the peer reviewed methodology? Where are the controlled studies? Can you imagine if any scientist or researcher tried to get away with that kind of sh!t? They'd be laughed out of whatever job they had.

All 22,000 peer reviewed articles on prayer?   You think?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=prayer

Predicting lower levels of depression at the follow-up were preoperative use of prayer for coping, optimism, and hope. Predicting lower levels of anxiety at the follow-up were subjective religiousness, marital status, and hope. Predicting poorer adjustment were reverence in religious contexts, preoperative mental health symptoms, and medical comorbidity. Including optimism and hope in the model did not eliminate effects of religious factors.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2982210/

If you show/prove to me a prayer that works, I'll pray.
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.