Author Topic: Sickening doesn't do it justice  (Read 551 times)

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Offline magicmiles

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Sickening doesn't do it justice
« on: June 25, 2013, 04:24:34 AM »

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/world/baby-killer-rebecca-shuttleworth-celebrates-lottery-win-while-awaiting-trial/story-fnihsmjt-1226669550704

What raised a lump in my throat was this:

"Family members reported seeing her slapping and shouting at the bewildered toddler"

To think of this poor little kid with a look of bewilderment on his face...like 'why is my Mum hurting me?"

I find this difficult to deal with.
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Sickening doesn't do it justice
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2013, 04:41:06 AM »
I really didn't need this today.

Beaten over two days with an iron bar.  A 2-year old. 
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
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Offline Seppuku

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Re: Sickening doesn't do it justice
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2013, 05:02:57 AM »
Wow, that's fucked.

Very undeserving of that money. Shame they can't take the money away saying, "you're terrible people, you don't deserve nice things, go rot in a hole". I try to have faith in humanity, I try.
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Offline William

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Re: Sickening doesn't do it justice
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2013, 05:03:47 AM »
Well it is absolutely sickening.   

But has this particular crime been cherry picked for our attention because the criminal here is reported to be a lesbian?

To restore my own balance I would like to see some links to disgusting crimes done by heterosexual theists.
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Offline Seppuku

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Re: Sickening doesn't do it justice
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2013, 05:16:11 AM »
I don't know if it has been cherry picked. I don't get the impression, I think the reason it's highlighted is because the fuckers won the postcode lottery. When the crime was commited she was in a heterosexual relationship, it mentions her ex-boyfriend.

But your wish is my command:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/dec/09/tracymcveigh.theobserver

Testament to how fucked the human race can be. Things like the above link are what infuriates me when people use a literal interpretation of the bible to say numerous people deserve death and torture, whilst they aren't actively doing it, they are endorsing it. It's not just blanket statements, it's things that have happened and STILL happen in the name of their beliefs.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 05:19:05 AM by Seppuku »
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Offline William

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Re: Sickening doesn't do it justice
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2013, 06:19:15 AM »
But your wish is my command:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/dec/09/tracymcveigh.theobserver

Thanks Seppuku, I'm sad to say that helped greatly :'(

Just a thought, WWGHA has a sub-forum called: "Religion In The News" where many of the topics are carefully selected by atheist members to illustrate the hypocrisy of theists.  I'd be quite interested in a section where we could discuss the weird and bad things done by by certain atheists and anyone who doesn't claim to conform to theistic/scriptural morals. 

I think in the future the world will inevitably move away from theism and theistic morals, so it's well worth discussing examples of sickening behavior perpetrated by people of, shall we say "non-religious" persuasion.  What are the universal secular moral principles we could all agree on?
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Offline Seppuku

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Re: Sickening doesn't do it justice
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2013, 07:00:26 AM »
There's a lot of non-theist principles of ethics out there, philsophers have discussed them for a very long time. Atheists tend to have reputation for being humanists, though I am not one myself, I would say I'm a philosophical Buddhist (Buddhism minus the woo).

I think for balance it would be interesting to discuss what atheists do. I am of the opinion that if religious dies out that suddenly the human race will suddenly become better, granted I think it plays its part in some bad things about humanity and heck, the lack of religion may improve things (though I can't test that) but it's a question of what kinds of morals people latch onto. Human urges can at times not be very pretty, as we tend to see in the news.

However, I don't atheism on its own can be motivation to do wrong, which would where this would different from 'Religion in the News'. The same for theism. Of course you may argue differently for theistic and atheistic ideals, for example, to eradicate religion would be an atheistic ideal, but 'atheism' is not the motivation. By comparison, if a person kills because they believe the bible tells them to do so, the motivation is not derive from theism but his theistic beliefs.

I think this is the common error people make when they try to use Stalin as an argument against atheists, usually in defense when somebody brings up the wrong doing of religion. Normally I would turn around and use the argument that whilst Hitler was a theist he was not motivated by his theism, despite the fact he makes several references to the Christian God. Theism (and even Christianity) did not motivate Hitler. Just as atheism didn't motivate Stalin.

In the link I provided, the motivation has a clear religious connotation. They're paranoid that the problems and afflictions they face is the result of witchcraft, which is related to their religious beliefs and as their holy book says, witches must die. And the witch must be people among them. The exact same thing happened in Europe centuries earlier and also happened in the US (most famously, Salem).
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Offline DumpsterFire

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Re: Sickening doesn't do it justice
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2013, 12:35:57 AM »
It is odd, MM, that a theist would bring this to our attention. So the story is: Woman brutally murders her 2 year-old son, then wins lottery. Does this sequence of events seem like something of which a just god would approve?
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Sickening doesn't do it justice
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2013, 01:05:35 AM »
I was outraged by it and just felt like seeing what insights others had into such sickening behaviour. Whether the people involved were religious, non-religious, gay or straight had nothing to do with it. I didn't post it to start a debate.
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Offline hickdive

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Re: Sickening doesn't do it justice
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2013, 02:16:41 AM »
Dumpsterfire hits the nail on the head.

There are three possibilities; a god that approves of and rewards this heinous crime, a god that is ambivalent to human suffering or no god at all.

This is the point where the theistic wave their hands, mumble about "mysterious ways" and shuffle off sideways.
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Offline Quesi

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Re: Sickening doesn't do it justice
« Reply #10 on: June 27, 2013, 03:25:08 PM »
Some people should not have children.  Two year olds are exhausting.  They climb.  They fall.  They cry.  The pull things over and dismantle things.  They put stuff in their mouths.  They poop in their diapers, and sometimes, if you don't catch it soon enough, they take their poopy diapers off.  They tantrum.  They demand attention, and demand independence.  They need need need and want want want and they don't have the verbal skills to tell you what they need and want.

But they giggle.  They discover.  They have amazing accomplishments every single day.  My little girl was a snuggler when she was two, but I know not all toddlers are.  She would snuggle up to me and we would read together, or watch tv.  We built things with squishy pre-lego kinds of blocks and she had lots of loud annoying toys with buttons and levers that sang alphabet songs and counted things, and that always kept her occupied for a while.  She could draw with crayons, and sometimes, under careful supervision, we took out paints.  And playdough.  She loved playdough.  We went to the park when it was warm, and spent a lot of time in a local children's museum when it was cold or rainy.  As apartment dwellers, we threw a beach ball up and down the hallway.  I look at parents chasing after their bold little two year olds, and I sigh with relief that my smart, independent big 6 1/2 year old is past that stage.   

If you aren't excited about sharing the discoveries and accomplishments and if you aren't committed to playtime on the kid's schedule, and if you are not working on potty training and reminding yourself that the end of the diaper era is near, I can see getting really frustrated with a two year old. 

But they are so innocent.  So dependent on you.  To hit this poor child, to beat him, is beyond comprehension.   Yes.  I'm also struck by the thought of his bewildered little face.  Why?  Why would mommy hurt me? 

She would have to go through some real disconnect with reality, I assume.  Dehumanize the little human being.  How else could she have done this?

Celebrating a lottery winning when her sweet innocent boy is dead by her hands?  That angers me.  I'm actually surprised she is out and free while awaiting trial.  As much as I don't think she deserves the joys of sexual and emotional intimacy, I am glad she is sleeping with a woman rather than a man.  I sure as hell would not like to see her have another surprise pregnancy. 

Offline Energized

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Re: Sickening doesn't do it justice
« Reply #11 on: June 27, 2013, 03:39:42 PM »
Scumbag. Absolutely sickening. Part of me would like to exact the revenge people feel when thinking about this waste of skin. I don't know what the Australian prison system is like, but if it's anything like the US system she'll get hers eventually.

I'd also like to have a chat with the "Family members (who) reported seeing her slapping and shouting at the bewildered toddler." Scumbags too.

I know you didn't want to turn this into a debate, MM, but how do you (or other believers) feel about god's decision to give this woman some happiness after what she's done?

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Bringing torment and pain to others.
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Perhaps it is time to die?'

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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Sickening doesn't do it justice
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2013, 03:57:35 PM »
This is in the UK, E.

And sorry, but I really don't want to discuss it within the context of God's sovereignty just now, as it would likely drag me into the forum more than I have time for at present.

Maybe this story can be used as a starting point for such a discussion another time.
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Offline Seppuku

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Re: Sickening doesn't do it justice
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2013, 04:18:41 PM »
I don't know if under our prison system she'll get hers, but she's already made the precaution (as I was reading in yesterdays papers) of changing her appearance so people wouldn't recognise her because people tend not to treat kid-killers well in prison, however, I suppose you could say there's justice in that the papers have reported her 'new look' as well.

I sometimes feel our justice system can be light. I understand why we don't have the death penalty, but sometimes I do face palm it.

IIRC, it was her partner who won the postcode lottery, who as far as I am aware wasn't involved with original crime and not the bitch herself, sure she'll probably share some of her winnings, but I guess it's slightly better knowing it wasn't the murdering cow bag who won the £10k. However, I don't understand how she would stand by her partner. I can understand that if you're close to somebody you stand by them even if they do shitty things, but I don't think I'd forgive even my own blood if they did something like that. I would appeal to all that was decent left to try and do justice. It would say more about their character if that £10k went to a charity like childline and if both showed remorse for what happened. She she'd still be a murderous fuck-head, but at least she'd have some integrity, which could in time bring her some respect.
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Warning: I occassionally forget to proofread my posts to spot typos or to spot poor editing.