Author Topic: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!  (Read 17184 times)

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Offline Traveler

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #203 on: July 24, 2013, 11:52:25 AM »
FYI - junebug is having cancer surgery today from what she has said in another thread - you might not hear from her for a bit

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,24999.msg563241.html#msg563241

She posted the next day (stated in her reply right after yours), who gets on the internet right after they have major surgery? I know: those who don't have surgery and just say they do.

-Nam

Dammit Nam ... I meant to smite you and hit the applause button instead.  >:( A lumpectomy is day surgery. I'd have been online too. Grow a heart and a little common sense. You are wrong.
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Offline Traveler

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #204 on: July 24, 2013, 12:03:11 PM »
...
2nd if humans came from water not dirt then we should be natural swimmers.  Most of us have to "learn" to swim...

Although the others have explained evolution much better, as it happens, its my understanding that if you put an infant into water it will do just fine, in fact much better than an older child. But if we wait until we're older, then we have to unlearn a lot of things before we can easily learn how to swim.

Here's one site I found very quickly ...

http://www.splashnswim.co.uk/baby_swimming_benefits.htm
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Offline William

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #205 on: July 24, 2013, 12:07:06 PM »
I meant to smite you and hit the applause button instead.
;D For one little minute I thought there had been an outbreak of "Love" tactics in the karma system ;D
Git mit uns

Offline Traveler

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #206 on: July 24, 2013, 02:39:00 PM »
I meant to smite you and hit the applause button instead.
;D For one little minute I thought there had been an outbreak of "Love" tactics in the karma system ;D

LOL! I could try that.  ;D

I was just irritated that I hit the wrong button when he'd called a fellow breast cancer survivor a liar. I've seen a lot of cancer stories, and there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that she is honestly representing her story. To say she isn't is rude.

Anyway, ok, let me try that. Nam, I feel that you're in need of a hug. So, here's a virtual hug for you. Hm, too bad we don't have a hug emoticon. I'm sort of an emoticon junkie. Maybe its the artist in me ... a picture is worth a thousand words and all that.  ;D

And back on topic ... wasn't there a really great post recently that very clearly and simply explained how evolution actually works? Even to someone who "gets it," I recall it being very informative. Does anyone remember where that might be?
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #207 on: July 24, 2013, 03:38:43 PM »
And back on topic ... wasn't there a really great post recently that very clearly and simply explained how evolution actually works? Even to someone who "gets it," I recall it being very informative. Does anyone remember where that might be?
So...about 'on topic'...

I'm wondering if we've started to wander too far off the path of what Junebug wanted from this topic, or wants from this thread.  I've been focusing my conversation points (more or less) on her beliefs in relation to the bible, which I think was in line with the OP.  It's since become something more of a 'trying to understand Junebug's beliefs' in a more general sense, and some of the conversation is starting to deviate to conversations about her beliefs that are irrespective of the bible being a disgrace to god.  I think it's appropriate to ask Junebug if this is how she wants the thread to continue.

Junebug, is the current conversation (or conversations) in this thread still appropriate for you?  Is it time to fork some of this into new threads of discussion?

Your OP; your call Junebug.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline Nam

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #208 on: July 24, 2013, 10:06:45 PM »
FYI - junebug is having cancer surgery today from what she has said in another thread - you might not hear from her for a bit

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,24999.msg563241.html#msg563241

She posted the next day (stated in her reply right after yours), who gets on the internet right after they have major surgery? I know: those who don't have surgery and just say they do.

-Nam

Steady, nam... you're a bit too ready with your implications. You may owe junebug an apology.

GB mod


If I didn't mean what I said, I wouldn't say it. So, she had surgery of the day, and was online that day. So, besides the "day" mix up, I would have responded the same way.

I don't take things back that I mean. Look for a politician for that. Rand Paul, for example...oh, wait, he didn't apologize either, he just made an excuse. Well, pick another guy.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Nam

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #209 on: July 24, 2013, 10:08:18 PM »
She posted the next day (stated in her reply right after yours), who gets on the internet right after they have major surgery? I know: those who don't have surgery and just say they do.
Who would get on the internet right after that?  I would.  It's something you can do while prone, without taxing yourself too heavily.

Good for you.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Mrjason

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #210 on: July 25, 2013, 04:52:59 AM »
Junebug, how do you feel about other religious texts? Do you think all human attempts to interpret god are a disgrace?

Offline junebug72

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #211 on: July 25, 2013, 07:11:09 AM »
Dang computer, I'm sorry guys I had a response prepared and for some reason my computer just erased every bit.  Too aggravated to redo right now. 

JB
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #212 on: July 25, 2013, 07:25:08 AM »

If I didn't mean what I said, I wouldn't say it. So, she had surgery of the day, and was online that day. So, besides the "day" mix up, I would have responded the same way.

I don't take things back that I mean. Look for a politician for that. Rand Paul, for example...oh, wait, he didn't apologize either, he just made an excuse. Well, pick another guy.

-Nam

You might have meant what you said but what people are trying to tell you is you were wrong.  It's called open mouth insert foot. 

Did you gain or lose respect for Rand Paul because of the way he dealt with his mistake?  I think you can be a better man than that.

I had surgery at 5 pm on Thursday.  I left the hospital at 7:30 pm same day.  I was online Friday morning.  I have a small incision about 2.5" on my breast and another one 3" under my arm.  They didn't crack open my chest.  I am able to use my arm but under DR orders not to lift above 90 degrees.  The internet or TV is very appropriate.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #213 on: July 25, 2013, 08:10:16 AM »
Dang computer, I'm sorry guys I had a response prepared and for some reason my computer just erased every bit.  Too aggravated to redo right now. 

JB

That happens to me all the damn time. I will never get used to the track pad/touch pad thingie and god/whoever forbid I accidentally hit the return key...  But I digress.  Sorry.     Squirrel.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #214 on: July 25, 2013, 08:13:35 AM »

They didn't crack open my chest.

If they cracked open my chest to remove a lump I would be really pissed.  Oops I digress again.  It's going to be one of those days.
Squirrel.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline junebug72

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #215 on: July 25, 2013, 08:28:08 AM »
Let's try this again.

Jdawg,

I am very disappointed that my latest summation did not change one aspect of your understanding of my beliefs, spiritual not religious.  In that post you are confused I tried to address that confusion in that summary. 

Thanks for concern about the OP but it's OK.  I appreciated William's answers to the questions I posed about evolution.

Traveler,

I have read Screwtape's post in the Information Zone, I think it's called, at the top of the board.  Those were questions I have about it.  If you don't ask you don't learn, right?    ...and Thanks ;)

William,

It is your response that is the hardest to think about rewriting.  I had some good stuff.  Oh well, it's spilled milk now.  lol :laugh:

The main point of it was I have knowledge of my spirit.  I know of it's existence and function.  To me it is the breath of life and incapable of dying because it has no physical limitations. 

Perhaps if science quit rejecting it we would learn more??? 

Thanks for calling me harmless.  I'm very proud that I have given this impression of my beliefs. :-* :-*, since you like emoticon's so much.

MrJason,

I was working on yours when the spasm happened.

I think anyone that claims knowledge they couldn't possibly have is a disgrace to God.  I am not that comfortable with this question.  I would have to go back and research other religious text.  My memory is a bit foggy.  Off the top of my head yes I believe it mostly is.  They either assign terrible attributes or give unbelievable descriptions.  If we can not all agree that it is good I believe it to be wrong. 

As far as individual humans I can't answer that.  Of course I do not think I have disgraced God, but I have and I try to acknowledge this and learn from it.  Not just keep on and on and on.... doing it.

Tis not the same but twill do. :-\

Lori,

Good morning.  Good to read your wise cracks this morning.  You made me laugh.  It is a good gift.  Thanks...

Yea it's hard to piss me off but that did.  Urgh
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline jdawg70

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #216 on: July 25, 2013, 11:40:30 AM »
Let's try this again.

Jdawg,

I am very disappointed that my latest summation did not change one aspect of your understanding of my beliefs, spiritual not religious.  In that post you are confused I tried to address that confusion in that summary. 
"Spiritual not religious" doesn't really have anything to do with how I perceive/understand your beliefs.  I don't really allude to 'spirituality' or 'religion' at any point in time, or at least I didn't intend to.  One of my major concerns right now is that you're still under the impression that I think you have a personal relationship with Jesus.  That, frankly, is confusing me.  I'm seriously questioning my ability to write and communicate at this point; I honestly don't see where you're getting that.  I hate to be "that guy", but could you (or anyone else interested) specifically point out what it is about my summary that implies that?

It's certainly possible that I'm simply going to be unable to either a) fully understand your beliefs (or understand them sufficiently for productive communication involving them) or b) articulate my understanding of your beliefs properly.  I apologize for that.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline Nam

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #217 on: July 25, 2013, 06:10:55 PM »

If I didn't mean what I said, I wouldn't say it. So, she had surgery of the day, and was online that day. So, besides the "day" mix up, I would have responded the same way.

I don't take things back that I mean. Look for a politician for that. Rand Paul, for example...oh, wait, he didn't apologize either, he just made an excuse. Well, pick another guy.

-Nam

You might have meant what you said but what people are trying to tell you is you were wrong.  It's called open mouth insert foot. 

Did you gain or lose respect for Rand Paul because of the way he dealt with his mistake?  I think you can be a better man than that.

I had surgery at 5 pm on Thursday.  I left the hospital at 7:30 pm same day.  I was online Friday morning.  I have a small incision about 2.5" on my breast and another one 3" under my arm.  They didn't crack open my chest.  I am able to use my arm but under DR orders not to lift above 90 degrees.  The internet or TV is very appropriate.

I think it's best if I ignore you. You remind me too much of GamerGirl. I dislike her, and I dislike you. Everything you say sounds to me like total and complete nonsense. I want to smite every post you make, and make comments that will just be so cruel, I will do out some of my past cruel comments.

Though I am willing to risk it just to see those "future" comments, I think it's best I do not.

So have fun conning everyone else here with your sappy stories, I shall not partake. It should be noted: in conversation (unless you respond to a topic of mine and I have no choice in the matter) but since smiting isn't conversing with you; that's free game.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline junebug72

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #218 on: July 26, 2013, 04:52:14 AM »

If I didn't mean what I said, I wouldn't say it. So, she had surgery of the day, and was online that day. So, besides the "day" mix up, I would have responded the same way.

I don't take things back that I mean. Look for a politician for that. Rand Paul, for example...oh, wait, he didn't apologize either, he just made an excuse. Well, pick another guy.

-Nam


You might have meant what you said but what people are trying to tell you is you were wrong.  It's called open mouth insert foot. 

Did you gain or lose respect for Rand Paul because of the way he dealt with his mistake?  I think you can be a better man than that.

I had surgery at 5 pm on Thursday.  I left the hospital at 7:30 pm same day.  I was online Friday morning.  I have a small incision about 2.5" on my breast and another one 3" under my arm.  They didn't crack open my chest.  I am able to use my arm but under DR orders not to lift above 90 degrees.  The internet or TV is very appropriate.

I think it's best if I ignore you. You remind me too much of GamerGirl. I dislike her, and I dislike you. Everything you say sounds to me like total and complete nonsense. I want to smite every post you make, and make comments that will just be so cruel, I will do out some of my past cruel comments.

Though I am willing to risk it just to see those "future" comments, I think it's best I do not.

So have fun conning everyone else here with your sappy stories, I shall not partake. It should be noted: in conversation (unless you respond to a topic of mine and I have no choice in the matter) but since smiting isn't conversing with you; that's free game.

-Nam

OK.  That has been obvious since your first reply to me.

Reminds me of Anfauglir.

I don't care what you believe...MEAN PEOPLE SUCK  :o

Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Online Add Homonym

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #219 on: July 26, 2013, 05:33:18 AM »
It's certainly possible that I'm simply going to be unable to either a) fully understand your beliefs (or understand them sufficiently for productive communication involving them) or b) articulate my understanding of your beliefs properly.  I apologize for that.

Junebug is like a hippy, but without the homeopathy, and astrology. Probably with reincarnation and aromatherapy.

I live in one of the hippy-dropout centres of Australia, and can recognize the signs.

You can see the pine roof in Junebug's house, which means she lives in Portland.

EDIT: only her time zone is Iowa/Winnipeg.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2013, 05:45:10 AM by Add Homonym »
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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #220 on: July 26, 2013, 08:01:26 AM »

So have fun conning everyone else here with your sappy stories, I shall not partake. It should be noted: in conversation (unless you respond to a topic of mine and I have no choice in the matter) but since smiting isn't conversing with you; that's free game.

-Nam

Buh bye.  :P
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline screwtape

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #221 on: July 26, 2013, 08:52:04 AM »
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #222 on: July 26, 2013, 09:21:48 AM »
Junebug is like a hippy, but without the homeopathy, and astrology. Probably with reincarnation and aromatherapy.

I live in one of the hippy-dropout centres of Australia, and can recognize the signs.

You can see the pine roof in Junebug's house, which means she lives in Portland.
So...I get that vibe too.  And to your point, there are a wide variety of hippy-types, and they have a wide variety of beliefs.  Some have been into homeopathy; others not.  Some subscribe to a pantheistic viewpoint; others an animistic viewpoint; others still deist; some atheists.  Some treat the bible with some degree of reverence; others, just another book.

What I'm trying to get out of Junebug is a little more specificity than just the high-level aspects of her beliefs.  I had some follow up questions to my summary that, so far as I can tell, are still valid questions.  I think those questions warrant being addressed or, at least, having an explanation for why those questions are inapplicable.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/

Offline Cycle4Fun

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #223 on: July 26, 2013, 11:08:48 AM »
My belief in a Creator is not limited to explaining where Love comes from.  Matter of fact that has very little to do with why I believe in God.  First of all I find it hard to comprehend the amount of luck it would take for our planet to end up with so many forms of complex life from an explosion.  Explosions are messy business.  There is also the lack of other planets like ours.  If it was that easy there should be planets like ours all over.

I was reading through the thread and it wasn't until this post and another on the same page that I began to understand your belief in a deity. 

Junebug, you seem to believe in a deist type god.  A morally good god who set things rolling and has been hands off ever since.  If that's different from what you actually believe, we'll need more clarification!

The only reason I see you've given for believing in god is the design you see in the universe.  You've acknowledged and understood the flaws in revealed religions such as Christianity.  That's good!  You and many atheists have much common ground.  Allow me to explain why I don't believe in a deist type god, or any god for that matter. 

In doing so, I'll ignore the theory of evolution (how life came to be the way it is today), abiogenesis (hypothesis on how life began), and non-classical physics.  Non of it matters.  All that we have to agree on is this:

The best way to determine what is true is to use a combination of logic and our senses and observations.  When we find something we think is true, it should be repeated to verify the earlier observation.  Preferably by someone else to ensure what we think is not a figment of our imagination.  If you don't agree with that statement we have no common ground.  and I would like to know why you disagree.

Why don't I believe in a god?  It's so simple, often those I've encountered who ask me this question have trouble wrapping their head around it.  I don't believe in a god or creator of the universe because there is no evidence or reason to think one exists!  There is nothing more to it.  I use the same logic monotheists use to dismiss all of the thousands of other gods man has believed in.  I just go one further.

You, with a deist type belief say, "I see the universe and I don't know how it came to be, therefore creator."  I say, "I see the universe and I don't know how it came to be."

You've assigned a cause to the universe when you really don't know.  Human's have been doing it for thousands of years.  Why does the Sun come up?  Ra!  What is lightning?  Zues!  Where the theist says, "I don't know, therefore my god/s."  Atheists say, "i don't know."

Else it's turtles all the way down!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down

Your "spirit" is no different.  What you call your spirit, I call the physical brain.  There is no demonstrable difference.  So why believe otherwise?
How do you define soul?
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Offline junebug72

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #224 on: July 26, 2013, 02:57:00 PM »
It's certainly possible that I'm simply going to be unable to either a) fully understand your beliefs (or understand them sufficiently for productive communication involving them) or b) articulate my understanding of your beliefs properly.  I apologize for that.

Junebug is like a hippy, but without the homeopathy, and astrology. Probably with reincarnation and aromatherapy.

I live in one of the hippy-dropout centres of Australia, and can recognize the signs.

You can see the pine roof in Junebug's house, which means she lives in Portland.

EDIT: only her time zone is Iowa/Winnipeg.

I'm a southern bell.  Your reply is funny though. :laugh:  Hippy is a bit of a stretch when describing me.  If you could see the walls you would see antique farming equipment and Native American art.  I have a pool shark tattoo.  In fact, I have 6 and none of them are a rainbow. ;) 

North Carolina girl.

Thanks for the laugh,

JB
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #225 on: July 26, 2013, 03:05:54 PM »

What I'm trying to get out of Junebug is a little more specificity than just the high-level aspects of her beliefs.  I had some follow up questions to my summary that, so far as I can tell, are still valid questions.  I think those questions warrant being addressed or, at least, having an explanation for why those questions are inapplicable.

One day I will learn how to insert quotes from different pages.  I can only add what is on the page with the reply box. 

Last thing I want to do here is leave an unanswered question out there.  I'm sure I addressed your questions.  I'm not going back through all these pages to prove it though.  So I will do it again.  No problem.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #226 on: July 26, 2013, 03:07:46 PM »
One day I will learn how to insert quotes from different pages.  I can only add what is on the page with the reply box. 

Press the "quote" button on the upper right corner of the post and cut/paste what appears in the "Quick-Reply" box to wherever you want.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #227 on: July 26, 2013, 03:33:47 PM »
I think part of the problem is you don't understand the relationship I have with Jesus; I don't.  I am not a Christian, a fact that I have repeatedly stated.  I am open minded about the whole story.  For me I have chosen to live a life of peace and love.  I have found inspiration for that journey in the teachings of Jesus, Gandhi, Martin Luther King and many other non violent demonstrators.

Yes I can only use the bible for a source for Jesus.  It is also the source of other Jewish history.  It is a totally different read if you read it not believing it is divine/holy.

I will try to be more patient with you as you try to understand me.  If this doesn't help I will try and try until you get me. 

I've got to go for now. Take care.  Have a good evening.
Thank you for being patient.

I'm going to try to summarize how I understand some of your beliefs.  I think I'm still a little murky, so I'm bound to make some errors here so forgive that.

You take the bible to be an old book that has descriptions that are accurate (perhaps not precise), though it is neither a text of the quality of a history book (contains fantastical stories and untrue elements and events) nor a divinely written or inspired work.  You believe that a divine entity 'Jesus' (not really sure about this one; I'm basing this off of your claims of having a current, active relationship with this entity) is, in some way, referenced in this book (either as The Messiah as described, as a character based upon the real 'Jesus' entity, or some other means).  The information that you have on Jesus' character (be it concrete information or some 'intuitive' sense of knowing) is not informed by the bible, but rather informed through your life experiences as a whole.

The 'god' entity described in the bible is not related to the actual 'god' entity, or if so, it is a tangential relation at best (both biblegod and the 'god' you refer to as creators of the world for example).

Questions at this point:
Is there any way you can more specifically how it is you 'know', 'think', or 'intuit' this information you have regarding Jesus and/or god?  A general descriptor of 'life experience' is difficult to simply accept - we all have life experiences, and we all have come to very different bits of mutually-exclusive information.


The world (is it fair to simply say 'reality' instead of 'the world'?) appears to be designed by some intelligent means, and this intelligent means necessarily stems from some sentience.  This is enough to suggest to you that the best, most parsimonious explanation is that some intelligent sentience created, through undiscovered or undiscoverable means, instantiated the world and continues to act in it but inside the will of other sentient entities.  This 'interaction' manifests itself as emotional and/or intuitive senses but not in some manner like direct interaction with the physical 'essence' (matter, energy, space, time, etc.).


Questions at this point:
I think the obvious question is - surely by whatever criteria you deem as sufficient to claim the world/reality designed apply to the sentience proposed.  In essence the answer simply rewords the question - replace 'world' or 'reality' with 'god' but nothing else of value is accomplished.

Further, I have a pretty big gap in understanding still as to how Jesus and god relate.  Could you explain that?  Start at a 'high-level' if you like and we can drill down into more detail if I'm still not quite understanding you.


It plainly says right above your first paragraph what my source of Jesus is.  I have given you my summary of the bible.  I definitely remember responding to this post now

answer to the last question=No because I have questions about the same thing. I do not know I was not there. 

That first question is so far off from my beliefs that I can not answer it.  Although I did respond to it.  The more I read this the more confused I get.  It's like reading while in the oaken bucket at Carowinds, amusement park..  It just goes round and round and round.  It is like you start to get there and then take a sharp left.   So I have to say no this isn't right. 

I am not going to elaborate to avoid confusing you further.  You must get this fixation you have with Jesus and my beliefs out of your head.  For the sake of helping you understand let's just forget I even know who Jesus is, OK?

The red portion is close.

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Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #228 on: July 26, 2013, 03:45:16 PM »
I'm a southern bell.

You and Lindsey Graham both.
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #229 on: July 26, 2013, 04:05:45 PM »
I guess to just simplify matters I will copy/paste the post I have been actually referring to.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jdawg, I clearly told you I do not have a relationship with Jesus.  So why turn around and say that I do? 
Apologies - I misread/misunderstood what you had wrote.  I read it as you saying that I don't understand the relationship you have with Jesus, and that you don't necessarily understand your relationship with him either (it's a viewpoint I've seen a number of times - claims of a personal relationship with Jesus but of a kind that cannot be articulated in any sort of way).
Quote
1st question-We all have life experiences but not the same ones.  Mine has been very different from yours and so on and so on. I know you must be aware of this.
I'm not sure this addresses the meat of my question - yes, we do have very different experiences.  The question is why there are so many disparate, mutually exclusive viewpoints and understandings on a subject like 'the existence of an person called Jesus' and the nature of that entity therein (i.e. divinity, salvation, simple preacher, etc.).  That's why I'm saying that simply saying "my life experiences have informed upon me that Jesus of Nazareth existed and had the following qualities" is insufficient to understand how it is you came to believe that Jesus did indeed exist.
Quote
When you read the bible without belief in it's divinity/holiness it is a different read.
Yup.
Quote
Why would you say that intelligence stems from sentience?  I would think it the other way around.  Sentience stems from intelligence. 
I suspect that neither of us will get very far if we start trying to define intelligence in a specific way, so I'll go ahead and just concede this.  With the assumption that sentience stems from intelligence, what leads you to leap that the intelligence that you feel is apparent in the creation of reality has sentient characteristics (i.e. loving, willfulness, etc.)?
Quote
2nd question-I believe Jesus was close to God.  The authors of his story are human and their interpretation may be exaggerated.  For instance, the virgin birth, walking on water, healing, rising from the dead and turning water into wine.  See I am familiar with human nature and I don't know, when I read the bible with this in mind it stands out to me. 

Jesus is so much greater as a man than a demi-god. 
So when you say "Jesus was close to god", I take it to mean that Jesus was more 'in tuned' to god, or has a better understanding of god's ways more than others?  Or something like that at least...if you could give more clarity here I think it would help...

I'm going to try a re-summary of how I understand your views and beliefs again.  Same caveats apply from last time:

You take the bible to be an old book that has some historical descriptions that are accurate (perhaps not precise), though it is neither a text of the quality of a history book (contains fantastical stories and untrue elements and events) nor a divinely written or inspired work.  You believe that man named 'Jesus' is, in some way, referenced in this book, though for the most part is a caricature of the actual 'Jesus'.  The information that you have on Jesus' character (be it concrete information or some 'intuitive' sense of knowing) is not informed by the bible, but rather informed through your life experiences as a whole.

The man Jesus is an ideal to aspire towards.  Actions and words attributed to him in the bible may or may not be accurate, but again, the truth of his existence and aspects of his general character are things that you've learned of through life experiences as a whole.

The 'god' entity described in the bible is not related to the actual 'god' entity, or if so, it is a tangential relation at best (both biblegod and the 'god' you refer to as creators of the world for example).

The world (is it fair to simply say 'reality' instead of 'the world'?) appears to be designed by some intelligent means.  This is enough to suggest to you that the best, most parsimonious explanation is that some intelligent sentience created, through undiscovered or undiscoverable means, instantiated the world and continues to act in it but inside the will of other sentient entities.  This 'interaction' manifests itself as emotional and/or intuitive senses but not in some manner like direct interaction with the physical 'essence' (matter, energy, space, time, etc.).


Questions:
I'm still unclear as to how you've derived some aspects of Jesus' character or teachings.  If none of it is informed from the bible (and maybe some of it is), where do you get your ideas that Jesus is an exemplary example of a human to strive to be like?  Where do you get your idea that Jesus is, in some way, close to god?

Could you explain how you get from 'reality looks to be designed by an intelligence' to 'the intelligence responsible for designing reality has sentience'?  The gap there is a bit wide for me right now.  Does sentience necessarily stem from intelligence?

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Offline junebug72

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #230 on: July 26, 2013, 04:09:39 PM »
I'm a southern bell.

You and Lindsey Graham both.

I am sure there are politicians from your region too.  What's your point?  I am not her.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #231 on: July 26, 2013, 04:11:15 PM »
Thanks OAA you rock n roll!!!

I'm well aware. ;)
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.