Author Topic: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!  (Read 15851 times)

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Offline median

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #261 on: October 05, 2013, 12:45:28 PM »
  I don't recall saying God has designed everything.  My theory is that God created our planet and us to do with as we chose; a gift.


This isn't a theory. It is a mere guess based upon an argument from ignorance fallacy. "Well, I can't think of any other way it could have happened. So I'm just going to go with the belief that makes me feel good." In any case, this "theory" of yours isn't tentative is it? It's not like you're holding it with a open hand - readily willing to give it up if you discover your reasons are irrational. You are wholly committed to it. So then you are practicing intellectual dishonesty. Your "theory" is not just a theory (aka - guess/hypothesis). It is a conclusion you've drawn from the beginning - instead of withholding judgment and doing disinterested work to find out. As has been noted so many times before, that is backwards thinking - starting with your conclusion (what you are calling "theory") and then filtering all evidence through that bias. That very foundation (the lack of critical thinking) is what has given rise to bad ideas throughout the ages (including the bible). It should be corrected immediately.


Btw, the bible is not a disgrace to God (Yahweh) - because there is no Yahweh. The bible is a disgrace to human beings and the planet earth. That is all that matters.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2013, 12:48:58 PM by median »
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Offline junebug72

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #262 on: October 06, 2013, 11:50:50 AM »
  I don't recall saying God has designed everything.  My theory is that God created our planet and us to do with as we chose; a gift.


This isn't a theory. It is a mere guess based upon an argument from ignorance fallacy. "Well, I can't think of any other way it could have happened. So I'm just going to go with the belief that makes me feel good." In any case, this "theory" of yours isn't tentative is it? It's not like you're holding it with a open hand - readily willing to give it up if you discover your reasons are irrational. You are wholly committed to it. So then you are practicing intellectual dishonesty. Your "theory" is not just a theory (aka - guess/hypothesis). It is a conclusion you've drawn from the beginning - instead of withholding judgment and doing disinterested work to find out. As has been noted so many times before, that is backwards thinking - starting with your conclusion (what you are calling "theory") and then filtering all evidence through that bias. That very foundation (the lack of critical thinking) is what has given rise to bad ideas throughout the ages (including the bible). It should be corrected immediately.


Btw, the bible is not a disgrace to God (Yahweh) - because there is no Yahweh. The bible is a disgrace to human beings and the planet earth. That is all that matters.

I have done disinterested work.  I bet I do more disinterested work than you do.

What am I doing here if not disinterested work?
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Offline junebug72

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #263 on: October 06, 2013, 12:23:12 PM »

1) intelligent design means that god designs every single creature that has ever lived. You cannot design a species without designing every single individual in the gene pool. Every creature that has ever lived or died had to live or die exactly as it did. Every baby had to be born exactly as it was. Every baby that died had to die exactly as it did. Every victim in the concentration camps had to die exactly as they did. It means that no one ever had freewill or free choice. This is what intelligent design means and that is why European Christians won't touch it.

Either you believe from your own experience that babies are a free choice or you believe the words of charlatans that it was done by intelligent design. Both cannot be true. Which is it?

2) I am sure there was suffering. It was the result of evolution not god.

3) We are talking about your concept of god, the monster of intelligent design. Your comments show that you have not thought through the full implications of intelligent design.

Mankind was designed with freewill.  All other creatures got instinct.  When I say I believe there was intelligence involved I'm not talking about the "intelligent Design Theory" that you are thinking of. For someone that read this whole post you should know me better than that.   

If you don't have something knew; this is off topic for this thread. 
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Offline junebug72

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #264 on: October 06, 2013, 12:35:20 PM »
  I don't recall saying God has designed everything.  My theory is that God created our planet and us to do with as we chose; a gift.


This isn't a theory. It is a mere guess based upon an argument from ignorance fallacy. "Well, I can't think of any other way it could have happened. So I'm just going to go with the belief that makes me feel good." In any case, this "theory" of yours isn't tentative is it? It's not like you're holding it with a open hand - readily willing to give it up if you discover your reasons are irrational. You are wholly committed to it. So then you are practicing intellectual dishonesty. Your "theory" is not just a theory (aka - guess/hypothesis). It is a conclusion you've drawn from the beginning - instead of withholding judgment and doing disinterested work to find out. As has been noted so many times before, that is backwards thinking - starting with your conclusion (what you are calling "theory") and then filtering all evidence through that bias. That very foundation (the lack of critical thinking) is what has given rise to bad ideas throughout the ages (including the bible). It should be corrected immediately.


Btw, the bible is not a disgrace to God (Yahweh) - because there is no Yahweh. The bible is a disgrace to human beings and the planet earth. That is all that matters.

Oh contrair I have said here a few times I will change my mind if proven irrational.  Y'all haven't done it.  In fact I have been more successful proving my beliefs rational here; especially to myself.  You've made many assumptions in that paragraph.  I go with a belief that makes me feel rational and morally right.  I called it a theory because it is one. 

Not if you want to change the minds of religious humans. ;)
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Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #265 on: October 06, 2013, 01:13:14 PM »
Yes I think the Intelligent Designer planned every living creature from the start.


I don't recall saying God has designed everything.

Your posts are not exactly clear on the subject. Your ideas of design are conflicting with your other beliefs.

All animals have freewill to choose their mates. They are very choosy. There was no first offspring for any creature because every creature is the same species as its parents. Changes accumulate over many generations.

Any kind of design will produce the logical consequence of robots if each individual has to pass on particular ingredients. When we look at nature we see that animals are not robots, they actively  choose their mates. Have you owned a cat or a dog?

I can see two ways out of this design problem. One is to say that god did not plan or design anything but he knew in advance what would happen. This means that he did not cause the moral monstrosity of design, he just allowed evolution to happen and knew the result. The second way out is to say that god is a god of consciousness and never was involved in the physical universe.

Do either of these seem valid to you?

I can understand your beliefs better than you might think and I am not against them except for this idea of design. When I was younger I used to talk to a friend of my parents about Hinduism and I still have a kind of emotional attachment to some of the ideas although I don't believe in the gods.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #266 on: October 06, 2013, 02:06:16 PM »
I find that some of the ideas of Hinduism are more logically consistent with the way the world actually works than anything in the Abrahamic line. Why do some people suffer more than others? Because they screwed up more in a previous life. How do we prevent suffering in the future? Don't screw up now.  :angel:

Of course what "don't screw up" entails in Hinduism is complete bollocks, with unscientific ideas about caste, gender, reincarnation, food taboos and polytheism. But once you accept that it was as completely made up as any other religion, it does hold together more logically.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #267 on: October 06, 2013, 03:41:44 PM »
I was thinking more of toleration of many beliefs (different people have different gods with different names) and the idea that your own effort matters and you can make a difference.

Jesus denies all these things, you have to believe in Jesus alone, you can't do anything unless god grants it, and you can't change god's mind to favour you if he doesn't want to.

There are many other ways that it is better than Christianity. Caste is bad, but for Christians the untouchables are all non Christians, so Christianity also has the worst parts but none of the good parts. Religions with one god are the most violent and self righteous because they think they have the only god on their side.

It is not as good as having no belief of course because the direction of your effort is important too.
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #268 on: October 06, 2013, 06:37:53 PM »
Yeah, the idea that what you think and believe matters more than what you actually do is very screwed up. Belief is based on upbringing, exposure to ideas, the way your brain is wired. Nobody knows what is going on in your head, because until you act on it nobody has a clue.

You can't really control what you think and believe, but you have a lot of control over what you do. Stephen King can think about killing people all day long, but unless he actually does it, he stays out of jail and gets rich writing about it. A god or religion that would judge people on their private thoughts rather than their public actions is really messed up.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #269 on: October 06, 2013, 07:10:05 PM »
Ideas are what make you who you are. That is the whole premise of this website. You do what you do because of the ideas you have.

You have less control over your actions than you do over your ideas because situations can prevent you from acting according to your ideas. Situations can actually force you to do things which you never intended.

Where did Stephen King, god and religion come from? I don't worship any of the three not even Stephen King.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2013, 07:41:12 PM by Foxy Freedom »
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Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #270 on: October 07, 2013, 04:38:04 PM »
So junebug, you are an expert on intelligent design and you have made up your own theory on the subject?

Yes I think the Intelligent Designer planned every living creature from the start.

Maybe you can share some of your expertise on the subject, if you don't mind?

No I look at Intelligent Design like this.  When you bake a cake you know what ingredients you need to make it happen.  I see our creation in a similar way. 

Anything else?

I don't believe our creator cares as much about us having healthy bodies as much as healthy souls.  Our flesh is temporary our souls are not, IMO.

I've always believed God only gives special (disabled) children to special  people.  W/O suffering we would not know empathy or compassion

And all this was learned from personal experience was it?



I am 41 years old I have watched mankind evolve in several ways most of all technologically.  To say I have no personal experience is falsifiable.


I suppose that you have thought about the fact that any intelligent design makes every living creature into a robot? Does that really agree with your personal experience?


I have done disinterested work.

So not personal experience then? Do you know that all kinds of intelligent design also have something else in common, they are all wrong?

I don't recall saying God has designed everything. 

So how do you know this new idea is correct?

I go with a belief that makes me feel rational and morally right. 


How do you believe you feel today? Do you think you are more rational than other people?

In fact I have been more successful proving my beliefs rational here; especially to myself. 

Can we see how rational your ideas appear to other people?



I believe the question we are debating is where did that first offspring come from.  There had to be a man and a woman.  They had to figure out what those body parts were there for.  I bet the woman instinctively knew something was growing inside and that it was a baby.  I bet she even realized it was there because she connected with the man.  It took intelligence and love to have and nurture that first child.  Before there were schools there was intelligence.  There is a reason for male and female.  Do you think they evolved together or did they meet by chance?  A couple of rebel apes that thought losing the fur was a good idea.  But now you have to kill to get fur from animals to stay warm. :?

That certainly does look like a rational argument special to yourself. Have you considered looking at research by experts in biology?


For someone that read this whole post you should know me better than that.   


Do you not think that experts in biology know more about evolution than you do ?



I beg to differ I have evolved from where I came from.


You won't change your mind?


Oh contrair I have said here a few times I will change my mind if proven irrational.

I can't wait.
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Offline median

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #271 on: October 07, 2013, 11:09:39 PM »

I have done disinterested work.  I bet I do more disinterested work than you do.

What am I doing here if not disinterested work?


Please demonstrate here the 'disinterested' (meaning unbiased and without an agenda) work you have done in order to demonstrate there is a god/afterlife.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline median

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #272 on: October 07, 2013, 11:14:16 PM »
Oh contrair I have said here a few times I will change my mind if proven irrational.  Y'all haven't done it.  In fact I have been more successful proving my beliefs rational here; especially to myself.


That statement right there demonstrates that you have it 100% backwards (believing until someone proves you wrong). That is absurd. You have put the cart before the horse. And no, you have not proven your beliefs are rational (or sound) here. Claiming it is so doesn't make it so. Thus far, I've seen (and I think many here have seen as well) irrational arguments/justifications for a belief in a deity. But hey, if you've "got the goods" let hear them. Please demonstrate here a valid and sound argument for your belief in a deity.
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Online Mrjason

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #273 on: October 08, 2013, 04:07:21 AM »
Oh contrair I have said here a few times I will change my mind if proven irrational.  Y'all haven't done it.  In fact I have been more successful proving my beliefs rational here; especially to myself.  You've made many assumptions in that paragraph.  I go with a belief that makes me feel rational and morally right.  I called it a theory because it is one. 

If proven irrational to whom?

Quote from: some french dude
The human brain is a complex organ with the wonderful power of enabling man to find reasons for continuing to believe whatever it is that he wants to believe.

Offline junebug72

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #274 on: October 08, 2013, 06:45:55 AM »
Foxy I can 't answer your outrageous number of questions.  Can't until you ask me something that relates to my beliefs not yours.  I believe God created a Natural existence with freewill.  I see evolution as a natural consequence of surroundings; the need to adapt.  If we were not blessed with evolution we'd still be dumb cave people but probably extinct.

Median, I was atheist for 7/8 years.  I'm constantly watching The Science Channel and learning what I can about science.   I have disregarded all religions and go by my own judgement.  You on the other hand along with every body else here have the hardest closed minds to open.  You think being condescending and sarcastic proves your point.  It doesn't it just makes you look arrogant.  My biggest gripe with Christians is not accepting people how they are.  Atheist seem to have the same problem.

I'm here reading all the sarcastic condescending crap.  That just makes me skeptical of ever turning away from belief in God.  I get closer to God every time I come here.  Explain that.  Please don't disregard this question.

I am curious as to whether Junebug can point out the specific changes to the human gene pool that she's seen occur in the past 41 years.

Junebug, "evolution" in this discussion refers to the change to a species' genome over successive generations, not to new technological inventions.  Those are not evolution.  They are changes to what we can do, not to what we are.

More intelligent brains should fall under evolution. 
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Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #275 on: October 08, 2013, 07:01:41 AM »
Evolution can only be a natural consequence of surroundings if it was not planned.

For every creature the surroundings are every other creature. If one creature was planned then all had to be.

I gave you a way out of this further up the page but you did not take it at the time. The answer I gave you was not too far from your last statement so hopefully we are close to agreement now. See my reply 265

« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 07:51:25 AM by Foxy Freedom »
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Offline junebug72

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #276 on: October 08, 2013, 08:30:20 AM »
i THINK EVOLUTION CAN BE A NATURAL OCCURENCE THAT WAS/is INEVITABLE.
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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #277 on: October 08, 2013, 08:39:01 AM »
  I get closer to God every time I come here.  Explain that.  Please don't disregard this question.

I don't think you'd like my explanation of why you feel closer to God, but feel free to disclose what measurements you are using, (and also, how far there is to go).

My biggest gripe with Christians is not accepting people how they are.  Atheist seem to have the same problem.

Atheists have more evidence.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2013, 08:46:39 AM by Add Homonym »
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #278 on: October 08, 2013, 09:18:40 AM »
More intelligent brains should fall under evolution.

Only if they're the result of genetic changes.  Otherwise, find another word for it that's harder to mix up with actual biological evolution.

Unless language-confusion is your goal, however.  But I think you're more honest than that.
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Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #279 on: October 08, 2013, 09:25:35 AM »
i THINK EVOLUTION CAN BE A NATURAL OCCURENCE THAT WAS/is INEVITABLE.

Can you be more exact about how you think evolution can be a natural consequence of adaptation, and still be planned?
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Online One Above All

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #280 on: October 08, 2013, 09:28:00 AM »
Can you be more exact about how you think evolution can be a natural consequence of adaptation, and still be planned?

That's an easy one. An omniscient and omnipotent god can set the variables so that a universe will develop as it wishes. Therefore, evolution (or whatever) is both the result of the physical laws of said universe and the god's wishes.
And yes, I know this question was not directed at me. I just felt I should answer it and save us all some time.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #281 on: October 08, 2013, 09:35:21 AM »
i THINK EVOLUTION CAN BE A NATURAL OCCURENCE THAT WAS/is INEVITABLE.

Can you be more exact about how you think evolution can be a natural consequence of adaptation, and still be planned?

I didn't say it was planned I said it happens naturally.
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Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #282 on: October 08, 2013, 09:48:31 AM »
i THINK EVOLUTION CAN BE A NATURAL OCCURENCE THAT WAS/is INEVITABLE.

Can you be more exact about how you think evolution can be a natural consequence of adaptation, and still be planned?

I didn't say it was planned I said it happens naturally.

Can we agree then that maybe god foresaw the result of evolution but did not plan it?
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Offline junebug72

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #283 on: October 08, 2013, 10:00:28 AM »
I don't think you'd like my explanation of why you feel closer to God, but feel free to disclose what measurements you are using, (and also, how far there is to go).


Yes my trust and faith is constantly reassured.  Things just turn out better when I follow God's will.  I'd say for me I'm 75% there.

Atheists have more evidence.

No they do not!  Y'all work with as much lack of knowledge as I do.  There is no absolute knowledge!!! You can not prove that God did not cause the big bang and place our galaxy together, creating the perfect planet for life to exist.  Then you can not prove that God did not create life on that perfect planet to evolve naturally to what we are today.



i THINK EVOLUTION CAN BE A NATURAL OCCURENCE THAT WAS/is INEVITABLE.

Can you be more exact about how you think evolution can be a natural consequence of adaptation, and still be planned?

I didn't say it was planned I said it happens naturally.

Can we agree then that maybe god foresaw the result of evolution but did not plan it?

OK I can agree with that because you used the word, maybe god forsaw.
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Offline median

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #284 on: October 08, 2013, 10:15:41 AM »

Median, I was atheist for 7/8 years.  I'm constantly watching The Science Channel and learning what I can about science.   I have disregarded all religions and go by my own judgement.  You on the other hand along with every body else here have the hardest closed minds to open.  You think being condescending and sarcastic proves your point.  It doesn't it just makes you look arrogant.  My biggest gripe with Christians is not accepting people how they are.  Atheist seem to have the same problem.

I'm here reading all the sarcastic condescending crap.  That just makes me skeptical of ever turning away from belief in God.  I get closer to God every time I come here.  Explain that.  Please don't disregard this question.


Notice how nearly everything in your response here has to do with how you feel. You didn't provide any rational arguments. You didn't even provide any of this 'wisdom' you supposedly gained from the science channel. All you did was whine and cry about how people are making you feel here and that those feelings are are the motivating factor behind your belief in a deity. Well, I'm sorry to have to break it to you but your feelings are irrelevant to whether or not your beliefs are true - and claiming that you were an atheist for some years doesn't really get you anywhere here either because that term is used quite sloppily to mean varying things all the time. See, it is the, "my own judgment" that we are trying to get at. What exact judgment is that? What reasons (rational arguments, evidence, etc) can you provide for this belief - b/c again, all we've seen so far are irrational arguments using logical fallacies (and those are not good reasons).


p.s. - "Accepting people how they are" has absolutely nothing to do with it. You came to an atheist debate site and then start complaining that people aren't "accepting you". We are here for rational interchange. Whether or not we "accept" you as a person is completely aside from the point. I'm sorry that you solely identify yourself with your beliefs, but they are separate (as in you would not die if they changed). Let's get back to the topic.


Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #285 on: October 08, 2013, 11:25:35 AM »
No they do not!  Y'all work with as much lack of knowledge as I do.  There is no absolute knowledge!!! You can not prove that God did not cause the big bang and place our galaxy together, creating the perfect planet for life to exist.  Then you can not prove that God did not create life on that perfect planet to evolve naturally to what we are today.
Right, there is no absolute knowledge.  But that goes both ways, as I hope you understand.

Offline junebug72

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #286 on: October 08, 2013, 11:39:05 AM »
No they do not!  Y'all work with as much lack of knowledge as I do.  There is no absolute knowledge!!! You can not prove that God did not cause the big bang and place our galaxy together, creating the perfect planet for life to exist.  Then you can not prove that God did not create life on that perfect planet to evolve naturally to what we are today.
Right, there is no absolute knowledge.  But that goes both ways, as I hope you understand.

That's what I just said itn't it. It's in bold. 
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline junebug72

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #287 on: October 08, 2013, 12:00:29 PM »

Median, I was atheist for 7/8 years.  I'm constantly watching The Science Channel and learning what I can about science.   I have disregarded all religions and go by my own judgement.  You on the other hand along with every body else here have the hardest closed minds to open.  You think being condescending and sarcastic proves your point.  It doesn't it just makes you look arrogant.  My biggest gripe with Christians is not accepting people how they are.  Atheist seem to have the same problem.

I'm here reading all the sarcastic condescending crap.  That just makes me skeptical of ever turning away from belief in God.  I get closer to God every time I come here.  Explain that.  Please don't disregard this question.


Notice how nearly everything in your response here has to do with how you feel. You didn't provide any rational arguments. You didn't even provide any of this 'wisdom' you supposedly gained from the science channel. All you did was whine and cry about how people are making you feel here and that those feelings are are the motivating factor behind your belief in a deity. Well, I'm sorry to have to break it to you but your feelings are irrelevant to whether or not your beliefs are true - and claiming that you were an atheist for some years doesn't really get you anywhere here either because that term is used quite sloppily to mean varying things all the time. See, it is the, "my own judgment" that we are trying to get at. What exact judgment is that? What reasons (rational arguments, evidence, etc) can you provide for this belief - b/c again, all we've seen so far are irrational arguments using logical fallacies (and those are not good reasons).


p.s. - "Accepting people how they are" has absolutely nothing to do with it. You came to an atheist debate site and then start complaining that people aren't "accepting you". We are here for rational interchange. Whether or not we "accept" you as a person is completely aside from the point. I'm sorry that you solely identify yourself with your beliefs, but they are separate (as in you would not die if they changed). Let's get back to the topic.

You don't have a clue because your arrogance closes your mind.  I can't believe you got a +1 for this clueless jabber.  You do not understand me so your responses to me seem out of place to me and hard to understand. 

No I see nothing up there about my feelings, you could have at least put a couple in bold, I see someone trying to educate herself.  You didn't ask for a rational argument you asked if I had done any disinterested study and I gave you my answer.  You sir make absolutely no sense what so ever. 

That's like telling a former Christian they never truly believed.  I have no respect for double standards sir.  Did you get that argument from Christian friends? :o
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline Nam

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #288 on: October 08, 2013, 01:56:23 PM »
No they do not!  Y'all work with as much lack of knowledge as I do.  There is no absolute knowledge!!! You can not prove that God did not cause the big bang and place our galaxy together, creating the perfect planet for life to exist.  Then you can not prove that God did not create life on that perfect planet to evolve naturally to what we are today.
Right, there is no absolute knowledge.  But that goes both ways, as I hope you understand.

Funny.

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A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline median

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Re: The Bible is a disgrace to God!!!
« Reply #289 on: October 08, 2013, 06:17:23 PM »

You don't have a clue because your arrogance closes your mind. 

It's funny how you mistake my intelligence for arrogance and closed mindedness but it isn't surprising why you've made that mistake (and once again - red herring/off topic). Btw, rejecting irrational arguments is neither arrogant nor closed-minded, sorry.

You do not understand me so your responses to me seem out of place to me and hard to understand.

Your failure to properly communicate your position isn't any indication of the validity or soundness of my rebuttals to your arguments.

No I see nothing up there about my feelings, you could have at least put a couple in bold, I see someone trying to educate herself.  You didn't ask for a rational argument you asked if I had done any disinterested study and I gave you my answer.  You sir make absolutely no sense what so ever. 

This seems to be so typical of your approach - making claims without backing them up. See, you haven't shown that my responses to you make no sense. You just keep chanting it like a mantra. It's really unimpressive and childish. I've asked twice now for you to provide the "disinterested research" you claim to have done (aka - the arguments/evidence that you have which lead you to conclude there's some deity) and you keep coming back with 1) no evidence, and 2) (to others) logical fallacies (such as Arguments from Ignorance/Incredulity and the fallacy of Shifting the Burden of Proof). One would think that if you actually had some really good evidence (that you found in a disinterested fashion) you would readily share it. I suspect though that you do not. Please prove me wrong by presenting the research/evidence which you claim to have and/or have done.

That's like telling a former Christian they never truly believed.  I have no respect for double standards sir.  Did you get that argument from Christian friends? :o

This statement demonstrates the fallacy of a Strawman Argument. I did not (in any way) claim that you were never an atheist. Further, this analogy fails (False Analogy) because it does not properly map to my statement you placed in bold. Just b/c you claim to have been an atheist (someone who lacks belief in a god) doesn't tell us anything about your reasoning process or whether or not you were actually someone who practiced critical thinking (avoiding logical fallacies in your beliefs, etc) and if your past posts are any indication then I have significant reason to question such ideas. Furthermore, whether or not you were 'an atheist' for some years has nothing to do with this subject. So that is another fallacy (Red Herring). What is relevant is whether or not your claims to having done "disinterested" study regarding a god/deity are valid, sound, and demonstrable (and saying, "You can't prove he doesn't exist!) is not sound. It is fallacious (see Shifting the Burden of Proof above). So you've made at least 4 logically fallacious arguments here all within the last two posts, and myself and others are attempting to point them out. It is not surprising though why you seem to be combating our rebuttals. You have a lot to lose ("hope" as you call it) and thus it seems you have a vested interest in pushing aside any correction to your arguments. Is this what you call "disinterested"?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan