Author Topic: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!  (Read 10265 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline harbinger77

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +0/-15
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #58 on: December 21, 2013, 07:29:48 PM »
As for "Christians feeling justified to make any lie" I happen to believe that there is NOTHING I nor anyone else could say or do or not say or do that would convince you to turn to Jesus. Until the holy spirit acts on you and regenerates your spirit, You just won't. It's all God. His plan, His time, His way.

My Bolding.

Fatalism. What will happen, will happen.

So we really cannot change things, so all we can do (as atheists) is hope that the holy spirit touches us on the shoulder and says. 'You guy are really chosen'.

Many Christians don't truly believe it is all up to god or the holy spirit. Or else they would stay at home and be religious and leave the rest of us alone. Instead, we have to live in a world where they are in our faces and trying to make us live according to their religious beliefs.

Look at all the religious crap that was thrown around in the last presidential election, how it is affecting the health care bill, people in the military forced to hear religious stuff, how it is even influencing foreign policy towards Israel and changing decisions about aid to other countries--no money to family planning clinics, for example.

How about this.  Leave it all up to god and the holy spirit. Please. No more missionaries, no more proselytizing, no more attempts to interfere in politics, no more heavily funded campaigns against gays or contraception, no more packing school boards to change the science curriculum. No more nativity scenes on public property or gigantic billboards telling everyone about how wonderful your religion is and how everyone else is going to hell. Let go and let god, right? I think every atheist would be down with that.

We will patiently wait for god and the holy spirit. You go first.

Let go and let God I agree with. but basically you are saying just practice my religious freedom, That men fought for and died for and bled for in my own home. And be stifled by the minority in public... Just like China? Sweet deal! because after all gays (1% of pop) for example need to be out there openly practicing their lifestyle. I supose I should hide everything I hold sacred cause lord knows unless it's Christian we should be free to practice and display it.

let God be true..... read these prophetic words and know the days are short.
John15:18-19
18 "If the world hates you, you know
that it has hated Me before it hated
you.
19 "If you were of the world, the
world would love its own; but because
you are not of the world, but I chose
you out of the world, because of this
the world hates you.…
http://biblehub.com/john/15-18.htm
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline Antidote

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 485
  • Darwins +19/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • >.>
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #59 on: December 21, 2013, 08:01:44 PM »
You said you hate the KJV1611. (private msg)

GB's personal feelings about KJV1611 are irrelevant, and stating the fact that he said it in a private message is both irrelevant, AND disrespectful.

I personally feel that ALL translations of the bible are terrible, because the source material is terrible.
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

---

Do not assume I was religious in any way, I have never been religious.

Offline Backspace

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1299
  • Darwins +56/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • IXNAY
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2013, 08:14:34 PM »
Quote
Questioning and testing is exactly why some (most?) of us became atheists.

^^^ Bingo.
There is no opinion so absurd that a preacher could not express it.
-- Bernie Katz

Offline Backspace

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1299
  • Darwins +56/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • IXNAY
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2013, 08:18:44 PM »
after all gays (1% of pop) for example need to be out there openly practicing their lifestyle. I supose I should hide everything I hold sacred cause lord knows unless it's Christian we should be free to practice and display it.

Religion is a choice.
There is no opinion so absurd that a preacher could not express it.
-- Bernie Katz

Offline Antidote

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 485
  • Darwins +19/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • >.>
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2013, 08:19:59 PM »
after all gays (1% of pop) for example need to be out there openly practicing their lifestyle. I supose I should hide everything I hold sacred cause lord knows unless it's Christian we should be free to practice and display it.

I'm pretty sure that percentage is dead wrong

http://www.gallup.com/poll/6961/what-percentage-population-gay.aspx
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

---

Do not assume I was religious in any way, I have never been religious.

Offline harbinger77

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +0/-15
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #63 on: December 21, 2013, 08:50:15 PM »
I see the wide variation in religions as more evidence that none of them are true. The ability to blatantly customize without negative feedback seems to be a good indicator that there are no gods out there, let alone ones with vested interests in our behavior, etc.

I concur. Far better evidence than the lack of healing of amputees. Gods arise reflecting the ideals and values of the culture that spawned them. When those cultures come into contact with other cultures, the concept of said gods seems to shift in perfect reflection of syncretism.
When the cultures shift, those gods either shift or fade away.

The claim that somehow the Christianity is different seems fanciful it must be treated with skepticism. So many things in the Bible do not match natural law, archeology, history, and human nature...plus so many aspects of Jesus seem to be borrowed from earlier myths...all from the local area, the conclusion that it is a syncretic myth structure; a Jewish heresy mixed with some Egyptian mysticism with two dashes of Platonic thought.

And then look at the time and place it emerged. Exactly the elements present. It is so terribly obvious, I have difficulty understanding how intelligent Christians not get it.

Christianity with it's roots in the jewish faith has been growing for 4000 years at least. where is the shift or fade? while this is not evidence for being correct ask yourself if God had a path for you would it not be the most visible farthest reaching religion known?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 09:17:01 PM by harbinger77 »
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline harbinger77

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +0/-15
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #64 on: December 21, 2013, 09:08:07 PM »
after all gays (1% of pop) for example need to be out there openly practicing their lifestyle. I supose I should hide everything I hold sacred cause lord knows unless it's Christian we should be free to practice and display it.

I'm pretty sure that percentage is dead wrong

http://www.gallup.com/poll/6961/what-percentage-population-gay.aspx

so you gave me the pole that says:
 The 2000 U.S. Census Bureau found that homosexual couples constitute less than 1% of American households.
 
 The FamilyResearch Report says "around 2-3% of men, and 2% of women, are homosexual or bisexual.

However, the ones who have a dog in the fight want us to believe the population is higher...

 The National Gay and Lesbian Task Force estimates three to eight percent of both sexes.

side note I didn't know they had a task force...

The article goes on to say that in a poll Americans in an open ended poll  guess (estimate) as much as 25% of the population.
 I blame the media. and non of this makes them anything other than minority.

thanks for backing up my point. :)
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline Antidote

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 485
  • Darwins +19/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • >.>
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #65 on: December 21, 2013, 09:20:21 PM »
after all gays (1% of pop) for example need to be out there openly practicing their lifestyle. I supose I should hide everything I hold sacred cause lord knows unless it's Christian we should be free to practice and display it.

I'm pretty sure that percentage is dead wrong

http://www.gallup.com/poll/6961/what-percentage-population-gay.aspx

so you gave me the pole that says:
 The 2000 U.S. Census Bureau found that homosexual couples constitute less than 1% of American households.
 
 The FamilyResearch Report says "around 2-3% of men, and 2% of women, are homosexual or bisexual.

However, the ones who have a dog in the fight want us to believe the population is higher...

 The National Gay and Lesbian Task Force estimates three to eight percent of both sexes.

side note I didn't know they had a task force...

The article goes on to say that in a poll Americans in an open ended poll  guess (estimate) as much as 25% of the population.
 I blame the media. and non of this makes them anything other than minority.

thanks for backing up my point. :)

I reject your "FamilyResearch" on the basis of their extreme bias, please try again.
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

---

Do not assume I was religious in any way, I have never been religious.

Offline Antidote

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 485
  • Darwins +19/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • >.>
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #66 on: December 21, 2013, 09:22:32 PM »
I see the wide variation in religions as more evidence that none of them are true. The ability to blatantly customize without negative feedback seems to be a good indicator that there are no gods out there, let alone ones with vested interests in our behavior, etc.

I concur. Far better evidence than the lack of healing of amputees. Gods arise reflecting the ideals and values of the culture that spawned them. When those cultures come into contact with other cultures, the concept of said gods seems to shift in perfect reflection of syncretism.
When the cultures shift, those gods either shift or fade away.

The claim that somehow the Christianity is different seems fanciful it must be treated with skepticism. So many things in the Bible do not match natural law, archeology, history, and human nature...plus so many aspects of Jesus seem to be borrowed from earlier myths...all from the local area, the conclusion that it is a syncretic myth structure; a Jewish heresy mixed with some Egyptian mysticism with two dashes of Platonic thought.

And then look at the time and place it emerged. Exactly the elements present. It is so terribly obvious, I have difficulty understanding how intelligent Christians not get it.

Christianity with it's roots in the jewish faith has been growing for 4000 years at least. where is the shift or fade? while this is not evidence for being correct ask yourself if God had a path for you would it not be the most visible farthest reaching religion known?

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/400322/Christianity-in-crisis-Britain-loses-faith-as-number-of-believers-fall-by-4-MILLION
According to Cpt. Obvious: Theists think they know God, Atheists require evidence.

---

Do not assume I was religious in any way, I have never been religious.

Offline Graybeard

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6838
  • Darwins +556/-19
  • Gender: Male
  • Is this going somewhere?
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #67 on: December 21, 2013, 09:30:42 PM »
You said you hate the KJV1611. (private msg)

Here is what I wrote to you in the PM:

I thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule of misleading people to expose your lack of Biblical knowledge.

First of all, you need to know that KJV1611 and the Geneva Bible were both written in a form of English that was old fashioned even at that time. This was done to make it sound important, much like today when someone speaks very formally.

So you don't like the king James.

It is nothing to do with KJV. The problem is that no one knows for certain what a lot of the Bible says. The best that anyone can do is to read opinions (and they are no higher than that) and then decide which version is likely to be the correct one given the other context that is available.

You see: it was you who said I did not like KJV1611. I certainly never said that I hated it or even disliked it.

You had that information in front of you, didn’t you? And yet, at the behest of your master, Satan, you now say I hate KJV1611 and you have the effrontery to try to make me out to be a liar, when it was you all along who are the liar! And, not satisfied with that, you “bear false witness”!

Ex:20:16: Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

To say that I am shocked, truly shocked is an understatement!

I forgive you. You are deluded and under the thrall of the Lord of The Flies. You cannot know good from evil. I will satisfy myself with the knowledge that Jesus will punish you, because as you rightly show, God hates all liars! :-


Rev21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
[/quote]

I told you that you would be in the Lake of Fire, didn’t I? And there it is – by their fruits shall ye know them. Well, Harbinger, we’ve seen your fruits, haven’t we?

Quote
You are the lawyer to my tax collector sir. I'm glad you are not me and may God forgive us both for we are but dirty sinners.

One moment there Harbinger! I thought you were saved! Yet you are now a self-confessed and continuing sinner! What is this all about? Trying to deceive God? It doesn’t work, you know.

Ac:5:3: But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Ac:5:5: And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.


And then you say
Quote
Romans 10:9
If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
http://biblehub.com/1_john/4-15.htm

You see, you are misguiding again. Oh, I know that Satan knows Scripture (and he teaches his little friends well, doesn’t he?) – why shouldn’t he? He has been around for a while.

This is Salvation:

Ro:9:21: Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Ro:9:22: What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
Ro:9:23: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


This teaches us how ordinary people are Saved, and it is not by listening to false prophets, but by the very Grace of God – directly - it is that gift! You earlier mentioned something to that effect, but you had "forgotten", hadn't you?

Now you call “Lord, Lord!” and we sit here quietly. Have you considered that you might well be one of those referred to in

Ro:9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

Who are you to say that we here are not those upon whom “he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,”?

Ah, but then I know you are simply a liar and that you probably think God is a liar because you consistently change His Words. Words that are refined sliver:

Psalm 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psalm 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.


Finally, I will address this:
Quote
I should also point out I can tell from the spelling you didn't use it. so when you said lets see what it says and quoted something else you lied.
Ah! The spelling! You mean where KJV1611 uses ‘u’ for ‘v’? Have you tried typing that? But the words are otherwise the same as the version I use.

And let us look at the preface to KJV1611:
Quote
It is welcomed with suspicion instead of love, and with emulation instead of thanks: and if there be any hole left for cavil to enter, (and cavil, if it do not find a hole, will make one) it is sure to be misconstrued, and in danger to be condemned.

Do you see how the author knew there would be people like you? How they would "cavil" and invent a hole? Why, it is as if God spoke to him, isn’t it?

So, in your lie, your anger, your vitriol, your spiteful and prideful comments, you have given no answer to my considered post.

I thank all here for enabling me to expose this false prophet for what he is: a hypocrite, not a Christian.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2013, 09:39:48 PM by Graybeard »
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline ParkingPlaces

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6794
  • Darwins +824/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • If you are religious, you are misconcepted
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #68 on: December 21, 2013, 09:33:34 PM »
Of course there are more Christians than any other religion.Funny how effective proselytizing with guns can be. Or, in the case of the second place Muslims, stones.

But if you're proud of that, so be it.
Jesus, the cracker flavored treat!

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12564
  • Darwins +304/-32
  • Gender: Male
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #69 on: December 21, 2013, 09:49:59 PM »
I invite you to look up what I say. NEVER take my word or someone else's word for it. You should question and test and seek God always.

So in other words, we shouldn't have your attitude of being biased and narrow-minded on the topic?
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline harbinger77

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +0/-15
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #70 on: December 21, 2013, 10:00:56 PM »
Grey beard...
 I apologize I was wrong. I didn't look at the msg you sent before I spoke. I did take the liberty to state at least the feeling you had left me with. I was wrong In the future I'll stick to quotes and not paraphrase.

 The rest I stand behind. I even double down.
I think I now know the answer to the question that set you off. Although I think it's multifaceted and not something you will discuss here. Maybe I just say this, He will always let you come back home. I'll have you in my prayers tonight. In the name of Jesus, May it be bound and cast away.

I may respond to the rest at another time right now I need a break.
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline jaimehlers

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5276
  • Darwins +603/-19
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #71 on: December 22, 2013, 01:39:35 AM »
I only want to address 2 comments here. first Other than a few scriptures that say he won't, I see no reason God wouldn't "strike up a conversation" other than the fact that you won't humble yourself, get on your knees and make the call.

second You asked about something outside what you call discernment. You asked about my thinking. how can I present my thinking inside of your own?
You pretty much just supported my argument with this post - that you are convinced of your own rectitude and rightness, and that you're largely interested in lecturing other people about it.  The problem is, you have nothing to base your opinion on except a few scriptures and your own beliefs, and that makes it unconvincing.

Look at what you posted here.  You have a few scriptures, which don't actually prove anything, and then you have your 'fact' that God requires obeisance from humans before deigning to even talk to them.  What kind of an argument is that?

Finally, you shouldn't try to put your thinking inside of other people's.  That just makes for a tangled mess.  Just keep the argument simple and have good support for it.

Offline Ivellios

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1077
  • Darwins +52/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Seek and Ye Shall Find
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #72 on: December 22, 2013, 02:58:02 AM »
As for "Christians feeling justified to make any lie" I happen to believe that there is NOTHING I nor anyone else could say or do or not say or do that would convince you to turn to Jesus. Until the holy spirit acts on you and regenerates your spirit, You just won't. It's all God. His plan, His time, His way.
Also I changed some #s. In the end I misrepresented the definition. I didn't make it a lie by changing words though.

Though it was accidental for you, but there are Christians that do it on purpose. I see you are not one of those.

His time, his plan, his way...

Just as God knows the dimensions of the Earth (Job) what good is it to anyone that he won't tell anybody? Maybe he doesn't know, and it's all a bluff, a con? Just to get you to shut up and put up. To say that one has free will, but if they don't surrender it, they are threatened with hell... well, coercion negates free will, just as bribery. In fact, "his plan" negates free will as well.

Edit: Didn't relize there were so many replies between your reply to me and the end of thread. Aparrently you're not so big on free will. Even the bible supports free will. God thru Moses says, "You have free will, follow me or die." That's neither here nor there, though. Every version of Christianity I'm familiar with, [Free Will] is one of the big things mega important things, as important as the Trinity, Jesus' Death and Resurrection, Baptism and the Lord's Supper/Communion. I do know that fatalism as a christian belief has been around for awhile, just not in the sects I grew up in, nor with the ones that knock on my door every once in awhile.

Imagine: you're in a play. The director expects you to follow the part he decided for you to play, but he refuses to let you or anyone see/read the script. How successful do you think the play is going to be, and how would you really know if there is a script to begin with?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 03:27:29 AM by Ivellios »

Online wheels5894

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2824
  • Darwins +122/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #73 on: December 22, 2013, 05:07:22 AM »
harbinger,


Having done some study in this area I wondered what study you have done on the bible and its exegesis? I discovered early on that the tools to understand the bible are hard to acquire and yet highly important to proper study. For example, learning the Hebrew Aramaic and Greek is essential as well as numerous other studies. So I was wondering, Harbinger, have you done any of this or are you just relying on a single, English translation and using it literally?
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline Anfauglir

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6249
  • Darwins +415/-5
  • Gender: Male
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #74 on: December 22, 2013, 07:05:53 AM »
I see no reason God wouldn't "strike up a conversation" other than the fact that you won't humble yourself, get on your knees and make the call.

Until the holy spirit acts on you and regenerates your spirit, You just won't. It's all God. His plan, His time, His way

Okay, I'm confused.  Is it down to me, or down to Yahweh, to get things moving?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Anfauglir

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6249
  • Darwins +415/-5
  • Gender: Male
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #75 on: December 22, 2013, 07:18:07 AM »
Harbinger, I'm getting pretty tired of having to remove posts where you have messed up the quoting.  Please take the time to check and ensure all comments are correctly attributed before Submitting your posts.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Anfauglir

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6249
  • Darwins +415/-5
  • Gender: Male
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #76 on: December 22, 2013, 07:22:37 AM »
One more thing Earth was not made for us...

Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and FOR him:

I stand corrected.

So can you explain why I should in any way feel grateful for anything your god created, if it was all done just for HIM?  Sure - I may get some passing enjoyment from it, but if he made it entirely for his own purposes (as you've just explained), by what reasoning should I give thanks for any of it?

Harbinger, were you planning on addressing this point at all?  I mean, I'm happy to accept your scripture that proves Yahweh created everything for his own purposes, but that does leave me wondering what I am expected to be thankful for?   I mean, if I were starving, say, and a rich man ordered too much food and dropped the rest in the bin, and I came along and ate it, I wouldn't feel especially thankful.  I might feel happy, but I wouldn't see why I should be thankful he bought some food for himself and I got to eat the leavings just because he couldn't finish it all?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 07:25:27 AM by Anfauglir »
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Online wheels5894

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2824
  • Darwins +122/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #77 on: December 22, 2013, 08:07:40 AM »
It's fair to say, Anfauglir, that the verse quoted is the only place in the bible where we are told that god created everything for himself. So far as I know, we aren't told anything about the reasons in any other book or the bible. I wonder how the author of the particular verse found this interesting fact out?
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline Graybeard

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6838
  • Darwins +556/-19
  • Gender: Male
  • Is this going somewhere?
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #78 on: December 22, 2013, 08:53:09 AM »
Greybeard...
 I apologize I was wrong. I didn't look at the msg you sent before I spoke.

Again, you have not learned that Godly lesson: you should listen. If you do not listen to us here at WWGHA, can you really be listening to God or are you just hearing what you think you should hear? Anyway, as usual, you have not read my words - I have already forgiven you but it is God's forgiveness you require: you may find Lu:11:4: helpful, however, there is always,

John:9:31 Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.[1]

In your last post to me, you said you were a sinner. Throughout your posts, we see you not doing God’s Will.

Quote
The rest I stand behind. I even double down.
It is in the small things that we do and say that we expose our true nature to God, wouldn’t you say?

Well, I’m certainly no expert in these things, but I discover that when you say, “I even double down” you are referring to a game of chance – gambling!

Obviously, I cannot really associate with such sinful behaviour. For you, who does not know good from evil, those words came quickly to your lips. Those who gamble have a love of money, don't they?

1Tm:6:10: For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

You see, each word you write exposes your abominable Godless nature both to Jesus and to us here, too. And it is because you do not see or hear.

Jer:5:21 Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:
Jer:5:22: Fear ye not me?  saith the LORD: will ye not tremble at my presence, which have placed the sand for the bound of the sea by a perpetual decree, that it cannot pass it: and though the waves thereof toss themselves, yet can they not prevail; though they roar, yet can they not pass over it?
Jer:5:23: But this people hath a revolting and a rebellious heart; they are revolted and gone.


Why have you left the Lord?

If I may offer you some scriptural guidance on the matter: to you, gambling may be an everyday activity along with other vile sins. The Bible tells us of other people who, like you, enjoyed gambling whilst Christ was dying at Calvary:

Joh:19:24: They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, They parted my raiment among them, and for my vesture they did cast lots. These things therefore the soldiers did.

That you want to associate yourself with such disgusting, sinful and pagan people is remarkable. I’m beginning to doubt that you are a Christian at all – even in a small way.

Quote
Maybe I just say this, He will always let you come back home. I'll have you in my prayers tonight. In the name of Jesus, May it be bound and cast away.

Again, I feel John:9:31 is helpful: God simply will not hear your words at all.

Perhaps a rest is what you require - a long rest. This is a message from Jesus: you can choose to have that long rest in Heaven or Hell, the choice is yours. You should really repent and get straight[2] with Jesus.

Edit for formatting
 1. Of course, a true reading of this verse poses the questions, “If He does he not hear sinners who worship and if I am a sinner, how does God ever hear me to start with?” (It is one of those Godly Mysteries, isn't it?)
 2. That is "straight" as in "honest", not "a straight" as in the sinful game of Texas Hold’  em  that you spend your time playing in your lust for filthy piles of cash, whilst reducing other innocent, simple, people to poverty.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 04:50:58 PM by Graybeard »
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline harbinger77

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +0/-15
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #79 on: December 22, 2013, 09:50:30 AM »
I invite you to look up what I say. NEVER take my word or someone else's word for it. You should question and test and seek God always.

Questioning and testing is exactly why some (most?) of us became atheists.

This was exactly why became Christian... You didn't quote the "seek God always" part. I have to say this is the most important element.
Enter the TULIP...
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Online One Above All

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 11237
  • Darwins +296/-38
  • Supreme ruler of the multiverse; All In One
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #80 on: December 22, 2013, 01:17:15 PM »
This was exactly why became Christian... You didn't quote the "seek God always" part. I have to say this is the most important element.
Enter the TULIP...

I thought the former implied the latter.
No clue what the last sentence means.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken/Lucifer/All In One/Orion.

Online wheels5894

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2824
  • Darwins +122/-1
  • Gender: Male
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #81 on: December 22, 2013, 01:27:12 PM »
Depends on the colour of tulip, I suppose. Watch out for the black ones as they are Satan's work!
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline harbinger77

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +0/-15
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #82 on: December 22, 2013, 01:57:22 PM »
I rather thought someone had looked it up since I mentioned it several times. TULIP is an acrostic used for Calvinism, reformed theology, doctrine of sovereignty, or doctrines of Grace. These are all different names for the same thing. Here is a link for you.
http://www.ligonier.org/blog/tulip-and-reformed-theology-introduction/
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline harbinger77

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +0/-15
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #83 on: December 22, 2013, 02:39:38 PM »
One more thing Earth was not made for us...

Colossians 1:16
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and FOR him:

I stand corrected.

So can you explain why I should in any way feel grateful for anything your god created, if it was all done just for HIM?  Sure - I may get some passing enjoyment from it, but if he made it entirely for his own purposes (as you've just explained), by what reasoning should I give thanks for any of it?

Harbinger, were you planning on addressing this point at all?  I mean, I'm happy to accept your scripture that proves Yahweh created everything for his own purposes, but that does leave me wondering what I am expected to be thankful for?   I mean, if I were starving, say, and a rich man ordered too much food and dropped the rest in the bin, and I came along and ate it, I wouldn't feel especially thankful.  I might feel happy, but I wouldn't see why I should be thankful he bought some food for himself and I got to eat the leavings just because he couldn't finish it all?

while it wasn't made for you do you not enjoy the life you were given? Do you not enjoy the sun shine or sometimes the rain? can you not be thankful that God would choose to give you even the ability to "enjoy" let alone the specific item that gives you enjoyment?
What if the food is providence? The man orders more than he needs (he must be American right... lol yes before I upset someone I am American) Rather than take it home to finish later he tosses it in the bin. The food is then left through providence for you to eat. You were taken care of in that moment. Thank the Lord. I don't believe in chance or luck as these human concepts contradict the sovereignty of God. I am currently wrestling with free will though. Could it be a series of poor choices that have left you homeless? Or is it a lesson in perhaps compassion that the Lord wishes you to learn that you may effect another person later in life? Perhaps the lesson is for me. While you are sustained by the Lord. I learn to be thankful for what I have and even love and compassion for fellow man. Whatever end of the lesson you may be on we can thank the Lord that He guides and teaches us.
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline harbinger77

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 345
  • Darwins +0/-15
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #84 on: December 22, 2013, 02:49:14 PM »
This was exactly why became Christian... You didn't quote the "seek God always" part. I have to say this is the most important element.
Enter the TULIP...

I thought the former implied the latter.
No clue what the last sentence means.

I suppose one would need to be agnostic at the least, to depend on God to guide one to the truth. I guess I should restate it
Seek the wisdom of God... ask that He guide you into the truth. Question it, test it, but depend on God. depending upon yourself puts you in the flesh not in the spirit. The Bible teaches these things are of the spirit and the natural man will receive it not.
I can't help but look at those pages (human genome) and have a vague sense that this is giving me a glimpse of God's mind.
-Francis Collins lead scientist Human Genome project

Offline Graybeard

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 6838
  • Darwins +556/-19
  • Gender: Male
  • Is this going somewhere?
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #85 on: December 22, 2013, 04:47:45 PM »
I suppose one would need to be agnostic at the least, to depend on God to guide one to the truth. I guess I should restate it
Seek the wisdom of God... ask that He guide you into the truth. Question it, test it, but depend on God. depending upon yourself puts you in the flesh not in the spirit. The Bible teaches these things are of the spirit and the natural man will receive it not.

You have used a lot of Biblical jargon there. To know what exactly you are talking about, can you please help the forum by answering the following?

What you mean by "the truth."

Quote
Seek the wisdom of God...

What you mean by "wisdom"?

Quote
ask that He guide you into the truth.

How is this "guiding" done? (I trust you have defined what you mean by "truth"

Quote
Question it, test it, but depend on God.

If you question and test it, but find it wanting - why do you "depend on God"?

What aspect of God should we depend upon?

Quote
depending upon yourself puts you in the flesh not in the spirit.

What do you mean by (i) "in the flesh" and (ii) "in the spirit"?

Quote
The Bible teaches these things are of the spirit

What things?

Quote
and the natural man will receive it not.
(i) what is (a) a natural man, (b) an unnatural man? (ii) "will receive it not." - why are you speaking 17th century English?

Finally, what does "Enter the TULIP..." mean?
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Ivellios

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1077
  • Darwins +52/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • Seek and Ye Shall Find
Re: Oh no! Not the Fibonacci again!
« Reply #86 on: December 22, 2013, 06:09:57 PM »
while it wasn't made for you do you not enjoy the life you were given? Do you not enjoy the sun shine or sometimes the rain? can you not be thankful that God would choose to give you even the ability to "enjoy" let alone the specific item that gives you enjoyment?
What if the food is providence? The man orders more than he needs (he must be American right... lol yes before I upset someone I am American) Rather than take it home to finish later he tosses it in the bin. The food is then left through providence for you to eat. You were taken care of in that moment. Thank the Lord. I don't believe in chance or luck as these human concepts contradict the sovereignty of God. I am currently wrestling with free will though. Could it be a series of poor choices that have left you homeless? Or is it a lesson in perhaps compassion that the Lord wishes you to learn that you may effect another person later in life? Perhaps the lesson is for me. While you are sustained by the Lord. I learn to be thankful for what I have and even love and compassion for fellow man. Whatever end of the lesson you may be on we can thank the Lord that He guides and teaches us.

If my mother was a prostitute that got impregnated by one of her customers whom she has never seen or heard of since he paid her. Regardless how happy I am with my life, I owe that man nothing. If that guy wanted to be a father, it's His responsibility to seek me first, why must I do everything for someone that allegedly "loves" me? After all, he did the deed, for himself.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 06:14:21 PM by Ivellios »