Author Topic: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?  (Read 14885 times)

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Online nogodsforme

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #116 on: October 29, 2013, 03:52:51 PM »
Why am I not surprised.  &)

I knew that Dr. T would back out of actually doing anything to help babies. He wants women to change everything about their lives so he will feel better. He is the ultimate poseur.[1] 

All big talk with no regard for the consequences of whatever policy he espouses. He wants abortion to be illegal, so every sperm that meets an egg becomes a fully grown baby. But what then?

Babies need 24-7 care, food, clothing, shelter, doctor visits and later on, an education, if we want the kid to be a productive member of society and not an inmate in a prison. And we as a society will have to be willing pick up the bill for all of that if the people involved can't or won't. Not to mention the impact on the environment of adding more and more water-using, waste-producing people to the planet.

He just wants to punish those irresponsible, promiscuous women who love having abortions  &) by making them have babies they don't want and can't care for.   And who cares if more women die from illegal abortions? At least the sluts get what they deserve. And if along the way nice, responsible married women are also forced to have a couple of children they don't want, so what? What's 2 or 3 more children to a woman who already has a few?

Obviously, he couldn't care less about what happens to the babies after they are born, or else he would be doing something for kids now instead of just flapping his big gums on the internet.  :angel:
 1. I love doggies, but even I would never compare animal protection to the needs of children... :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Wasserbuffel

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #117 on: October 29, 2013, 03:53:38 PM »
Quote
I think most fetuses are aborted with the have a beating a heart, a functioning brain with brain waves, a neverous system, well deveoped limbs.  etc.   

So do spiders.  But you're wrong about the state of development of most abortions, and the functioning of the fetal brain.

Quote
Let's apply your logic to torturing dogs like Michael Vick.  If I think it is my responisibliy to tell people like Vick not to torture dogs,  how many dogs am I supporting. 

This is not an accurate comparison.

First off, there's a world of difference between torturing dogs and aborting a pregnancy.  Torturing something and killing something are not at all comparable.  Pulling the legs off a spider and leaving it to die a slow death is cruel, squashing it to death with your shoe is not.

There is also an astronomical difference in the social, emotional, physical, and economical impact of a dog and a child.  If you can't see that, you're delusional.

Plus in the case of the dog's we're talking about creatures that have already been born. I may be pro-choice, but you can bet I'm anti-infanticide.  Once a child is born, there are other options for its care and survival, while in the womb it's a parasite and the mother is the host. If she's not willing to be a host, she shouldn't have to be.

Offline Wasserbuffel

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #118 on: October 29, 2013, 04:00:43 PM »
Quote
What else can I do?

The very least you could do is pretend like you think human lives have value past the point of birth.

More to the point, you could adopt one or more children that were the result of unwanted pregnancies that were not aborted. But you won't, because like most forced-birthers you won't put your money where your mouth is.

Offline Dante

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #119 on: October 29, 2013, 04:04:28 PM »
I think

You should stop doing that. You're not very good at it.

Instead, why not do some research and see where it leads? Yes, it may contradict what you "think", but you'll be a little more educated, and wont have to resort to starting every sentence with "I think" or "It seems to me". You might even be able to state facts instead of opinions.

Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Online Nam

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #120 on: October 29, 2013, 04:29:29 PM »
I didn't realize I was resonsible for everybody else's baby.  That seems to be the liberal mindset out there, everybody else is supposed to take care of me.   lol

Why do we pay all these taxes to ostensibly help the poor if all these women can't have their baby because of poverty. 

Clearly pro-abortion people don't care if it is life or if it isn't, they will support abortion even if we prove to them it is viable life to include feeling pain.   Politically, you hvae to pretend you care about that question and say it isn't life or viable life and doesn't feel pain. 

This is your problem: you only care about the person while they are in the process of being created, after that you don't care. You say, "I pay taxes..." which is as far as you want your responsibility to go. You have no problem forcing women to give birth to unwanted babies--well, you say, put them up for adoption as if that solves everything, for you. It doesn't solve anything. You keep saying, "liberal this, liberal that" which is nonsense. People should be taken care of by the means in which they can take care of themselves. People like you are of the mind: they should fend for themselves.

Conservatives yelp about how they want government to stay out of their lives yet when it comes to guns, abortion, and homosexuality, they have no problem in acting laws that are against them. That's government in peoples lives.

You're a hypocrite. You don't care about babies, or people, or anyone; just enacting laws based on your backwater religion and viewpoints, and oppressing people by your religion.

-Nam
« Last Edit: October 29, 2013, 04:36:43 PM by Nam »
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Offline DrTesla

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #121 on: October 29, 2013, 04:30:18 PM »
A slave owner probably made a similar argument back in the day.  Who is going to take of the slaves when we free them.    They have never provided for themselves..they were given free room and board.    Therefore, we should not ban slavery.

Boom.  I.Am.Legend.
"You want to know who just loves abortions? God loves abortions. He performs them all the time and not even for the money. "  NoGodsForMe

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #122 on: October 29, 2013, 04:32:03 PM »
Nam,

By your logic, making rape illegal is big government.  Making domestic abuse illegal is big government.   And so on. 

Next.
"You want to know who just loves abortions? God loves abortions. He performs them all the time and not even for the money. "  NoGodsForMe

"I wish it was men who got pregnant b/c we would squirt out these babies and go about our business.  We don't have be divas on this stuff."  DrTesla

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #123 on: October 29, 2013, 04:33:08 PM »
People are hurt by those things.

No people are hurt by allowing abortion, unless you count the feelings of the Christian Taliban.
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Offline Dante

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #124 on: October 29, 2013, 04:34:07 PM »
Nam,

By your logic, making rape illegal is big government.  Making domestic abuse illegal is big government.   And so on. 

No, it's your logic to equate those things with abortion. Nam didn't.
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Online Nam

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #125 on: October 29, 2013, 04:34:14 PM »
A slave owner probably made a similar argument back in the day.  Who is going to take of the slaves when we free them.    They have never provided for themselves..they were given free room and board.    Therefore, we should not ban slavery.

Boom.  I.Am.Legend.

A slave owner justified slavery by Christianity. The Bible promotes slavery. That's what a slaveholder would have used, and the Constitution at the time, since the Constitution also stated it was legal.

"They have never provided for themselves" -- sounds present-tense and racist.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

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Offline Jag

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #126 on: October 29, 2013, 04:36:49 PM »
A slave owner probably made a similar argument back in the day.  Who is going to take of the slaves when we free them.    They have never provided for themselves..they were given free room and board.    Therefore, we should not ban slavery.

Boom.  I.Am.Legend.
Boom. You.Be.Clueless.

And a willfully ignorant idiot - I haven't forgotten that either. Keep up the good work though, you're amusing the hell outta me!  ;D

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Offline DrTesla

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #127 on: October 29, 2013, 04:37:52 PM »
People are hurt by those things.

No people are hurt by allowing abortion, unless you count the feelings of the Christian Taliban.

yeah except the fetus that is being crushed.  why do they react violent to the abortion procedure if they do not feel pain.   What is the magical day that they become alive if we rule out conception?    When are they viable enough where it would be murder if we abort them.  Is this day the same for every baby?   Is the day the day he is born? 
"You want to know who just loves abortions? God loves abortions. He performs them all the time and not even for the money. "  NoGodsForMe

"I wish it was men who got pregnant b/c we would squirt out these babies and go about our business.  We don't have be divas on this stuff."  DrTesla

Offline DrTesla

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #128 on: October 29, 2013, 04:40:47 PM »
A slave owner probably made a similar argument back in the day.  Who is going to take of the slaves when we free them.    They have never provided for themselves..they were given free room and board.    Therefore, we should not ban slavery.

Boom.  I.Am.Legend.

A slave owner justified slavery by Christianity. The Bible promotes slavery. That's what a slaveholder would have used, and the Constitution at the time, since the Constitution also stated it was legal.

"They have never provided for themselves" -- sounds present-tense and racist.

-Nam

Does the Bible justify abortion?

Also, since you think the Bible is crap, why do you always reference the Bible.    Your point had nothing to do with my analogy to the logic used that I and other pro-lifers should have to take care of these babies or otherwise abortion is ok.   That isn't the test.
"You want to know who just loves abortions? God loves abortions. He performs them all the time and not even for the money. "  NoGodsForMe

"I wish it was men who got pregnant b/c we would squirt out these babies and go about our business.  We don't have be divas on this stuff."  DrTesla

Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #129 on: October 29, 2013, 04:44:38 PM »
Boom. I.Am.Legend.

You could be right there, but you would not like the laughter which goes with it.
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #130 on: October 29, 2013, 04:45:18 PM »
yeah except the fetus that is being crushed.

That is not a person.  And in most cases, it is not even a fetus.
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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #131 on: October 29, 2013, 04:51:23 PM »
I will not apologize for speaking up for the little ones who cannot speak for themselves. 

10 out of 10 fetuses would choose life if they could speak and were aware of their fate. 

The rights of fetuses are the civil rights issue of our generation.  History will not remember us kindly if we do not correct this egregious homicide of innocents.   Not one of you wishes you were aborted by your parents.    You should not have the right to end life simply because all you wanted was an orgasm.  Pregnacy is a risk of having sex,  plan accordingly.
"You want to know who just loves abortions? God loves abortions. He performs them all the time and not even for the money. "  NoGodsForMe

"I wish it was men who got pregnant b/c we would squirt out these babies and go about our business.  We don't have be divas on this stuff."  DrTesla

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #132 on: October 29, 2013, 04:55:39 PM »
I will not apologize for speaking up for the little ones who cannot speak for themselves.

Oh, don't pretend to be motivated by compassion.  It does a disservice to people who actually do care for kids.

10 out of 10 tumors would choose life if they could speak and were aware of their fate. 

I'll bet they would.  Same reasoning applies.  Not possessing any awareness is something that precludes personhood.

The rights of fetuses are the civil rights issue of our generation.  History will not remember us kindly if we do not correct this egregious homicide of innocents.   Not one of you wishes you were aborted by your parents.    You should not have the right to end life simply because all you wanted was an orgasm.  Pregnacy is a risk of having sex,  plan accordingly.

*clap clap clap*

Amazing rhetoric there, bro.  Great propaganda piece.  No truth in it, other than the second-last sentence, but very well written nonetheless.

There are a plethora of problems with what you wrote.  Do you want to know what they are?  Or, do you already know what they are, and not care?
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #133 on: October 29, 2013, 04:59:26 PM »
Let's say you got angry at a bad movie and wanted to punish Scarlet Johansson, so you went and raped her.

She gets pregnant from it, of course, and you hope that she has to endure the punishment you've set up for her.

What moral obligation does she have to keep your offspring in her womb, DrTroll?  It's not yet a person.  Surely you'd like it to be, so that she would be forced suffer, but what is the rationale for labelling it as such?
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Offline Jag

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #134 on: October 29, 2013, 05:07:23 PM »
I will not apologize for speaking up for the little ones who cannot speak for themselves. 

Believe me, no one expects you to do so.

We'd sure like it if you would base your position on facts though. Don't get me wrong -  we don't expect that either, it would just be a nice change.

Go ahead and speak for them. Who knows? It may go better than your efforts to speak for yourself have.
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Online Nam

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #135 on: October 29, 2013, 05:10:46 PM »
A slave owner probably made a similar argument back in the day.  Who is going to take of the slaves when we free them.    They have never provided for themselves..they were given free room and board.    Therefore, we should not ban slavery.

Boom.  I.Am.Legend.

A slave owner justified slavery by Christianity. The Bible promotes slavery. That's what a slaveholder would have used, and the Constitution at the time, since the Constitution also stated it was legal.

"They have never provided for themselves" -- sounds present-tense and racist.

-Nam

Does the Bible justify abortion?
Also, since you think the Bible is crap, why do you always reference the Bible.    Your point had nothing to do with my analogy to the logic used that I and other pro-lifers should have to take care of these babies or otherwise abortion is ok.   That isn't the test.

Sure does. When Biblegod  tells the Hebrews to slay ALL their enemies which includes pregnant women. Hell Biblegod  apparently flooded the entire world, you think all the pregnant women survived that? Hell, if you read Psalms 137:8 you'll see Biblegod  isn't too keen on babies either. Well, that's something you two have in common.

-Nam
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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #136 on: October 29, 2013, 05:13:30 PM »
I will not apologize for speaking up for the little ones who cannot speak for themselves. 

10 out of 10 fetuses would choose life if they could speak and were aware of their fate. 

The rights of fetuses are the civil rights issue of our generation.  History will not remember us kindly if we do not correct this egregious homicide of innocents.   Not one of you wishes you were aborted by your parents.    You should not have the right to end life simply because all you wanted was an orgasm.  Pregnacy is a risk of having sex,  plan accordingly.

If fetuses were aware while in the womb they'd probably see their mother secondary and murder her. You get it? You don't care. If you did you'd care about both lives and not just one.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #137 on: October 29, 2013, 05:16:46 PM »
People are hurt by those things.

No people are hurt by allowing abortion, unless you count the feelings of the Christian Taliban.

yeah except the fetus that is being crushed.  why do they react violent to the abortion procedure if they do not feel pain.   What is the magical day that they become alive if we rule out conception?    When are they viable enough where it would be murder if we abort them.  Is this day the same for every baby?   Is the day the day he is born? 

You should never, ever ejaculate semen knowingly or unknowingly because each shot has millions of little dudes swimming around, each an individual life, and by ejaculating, you will be murdering millions of them.

-Nam
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #138 on: October 29, 2013, 05:20:06 PM »


If fetuses were aware while in the womb they'd probably see their mother secondary and murder her. You get it?
-Nam

I don't think you've clearly expressed yourself on that. Can you clarify?
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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #139 on: October 29, 2013, 05:23:36 PM »
Remind me. How many of those "little ones" are you willing to take care of, Dr. Tesla? Oh, yeah. None. Once they are born, the little effers are on their own. You can change the subject and talk about dogs or slaves. But what about those babies, huh? 

Pregnancy is a risk of having sex--true. Plan accordingly if you don't want to become pregnant by using birth control--true.

And if you get pregnant anyway because you are too ill-informed, too immature, too messed up on drugs, too poor, too fertile or with a man who won't allow it, etc., do not have children you can't or won't care for. Have an abortion as early as possible.

Women and girls who are too ill-informed, too immature, too messed up or too poor to use birth control are most likely to have unwanted pregnancies, and they are the very ones who should not be having a baby. If she decides to go on with the pregnancy and give the child up for adoption, that is wonderful. But women who are really messed up and immature, by definition, do not make the best decisions. You can't give a baby up for adoption on the spur of the moment, and just abandoning an infant somewhere is a serious crime, as it should be.

In fact, messed up women do not make decisions at all, and life just kind of happens to them. Four children in foster care later, they realize that they have made a few mistakes. The kids suffer the consequences, and the whole society pays. As a former social worker, I would rather make it much easier for such women to end the pregnancy, instead of blaming them for being who they are and for having the lives they do.

Believe me, most women who have unwanted pregnancies do not have abortions. I have dealt with many, many situations where the woman probably should have had an abortion but "chose life" instead. They have the children, maybe partly because they have been listening to crap from people like you. If only they would track down the forced birth folks and hand them the babies..... :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #140 on: October 29, 2013, 05:29:25 PM »


If fetuses were aware while in the womb they'd probably see their mother secondary and murder her. You get it?
-Nam

I don't think you've clearly expressed yourself on that. Can you clarify?

If you were aware that you're in a dark place solely dependent on someone else, wouldn't you want out?

I may be biased, I am claustrophobic.

-Nam
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Offline magicmiles

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #141 on: October 29, 2013, 05:36:24 PM »
I am in a dark place solely dependent on someone else. But I don't want out.
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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #142 on: October 29, 2013, 05:40:18 PM »
I am in a dark place solely dependent on someone else. But I don't want out.

Marriage is tough, so I hear.

;)

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #143 on: October 30, 2013, 06:30:01 AM »
My point is it seems like you always have Christians on your mind and you also act like the argument against abortion is religious.....

LOL - what a bizarre thing to say.  Have a look up there at the name of the site.  Why are you so surprised that conversations on this site deal with the religious aspects of life?  I also post on wargaming sites, and - funny thing! - over there I talk about wargaming.

So yes - I DO have Christians on my mind when I'm posting on a site whose chef rationale is the problems with, and caused by, religion - specifically Christianity. 

Whoulda thunk?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
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Offline wheels5894

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Re: Isn't abortion the kindest thing one can do for another being?
« Reply #144 on: October 30, 2013, 07:11:34 AM »

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Does the Bible justify abortion?

This is the wrong way round. We ought to be asking if the bible bans abortion and the answer is no, it has nothing to say on the topic. Now, of course, people will argue for banning abortion quoting various bible verses to support them but the idea of banning abortion is their's first - it's not in the bible though I have no doubt they had methods of aborting the foetus back in those days.

The fact is that before 24 weeks a foetus is unable to live on its own. It doesn't have the lungs and so forth to do so. Also, bear in mind that over 50% of all zygotes fail to implant and quite a proportion of foetuses spontaneously abort so if you are relying on a caring god for banning abortion it looks like that caring god aborts more that humans do.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)