Poll

Does God exist?  (Magical creator of the universe either hands on or hands off God)

God or gods do not exist
19 (37.3%)
God or gods are not likely
16 (31.4%)
I don't know but I see no evidence of a god
11 (21.6%)
God or gods are likely
1 (2%)
God or gods do exist
4 (7.8%)

Total Members Voted: 51

Author Topic: Does god exist  (Read 3102 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SkyWriting

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 597
  • Darwins +9/-75
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2013, 02:16:07 AM »
The existence of religious people proves there is no god as a god would not create people that stupid.

 Not everyone different from you is stupid.  - common error-

Offline bertatberts

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1383
  • Darwins +48/-8
  • Gender: Male
  • Humanists. Not perfect. Not forgiven. Responsible.
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2013, 02:23:52 AM »
The existence of religious people proves there is no god as a god would not create people that stupid.

 Not everyone different from you is stupid.  - common error-
No correct, only the religious.

"Faith may be defined briefly as an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable. A man full of faith is simply one who has lost (or never had) the capacity for clear and realistic thought. He is not a mere ass; he is actually ill."
H.L. Mencken
We theists have no evidence for our beliefs. So no amount of rational evidence will dissuade us from those beliefs. - JCisall

It would be pretty piss poor brainwashing, if the victims knew they were brainwashed, wouldn't it? - Screwtape. 04/12/12

Offline SkyWriting

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 597
  • Darwins +9/-75
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2013, 09:31:33 AM »
The existence of religious people proves there is no god as a god would not create people that stupid.

 Not everyone different from you is stupid.  - common error-
No correct, only the religious.

"Faith may be defined briefly as an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable. A man full of faith is simply one who has lost (or never had) the capacity for clear and realistic thought. He is not a mere ass; he is actually ill."
H.L. Mencken

That's a fine quote.  Does the author prove his point with peer reviewed research?  Or is he just another preacher who likes to hear his own voice.   You didn't provide any supporting data either.  You seem to be who he is referring to.

Offline bertatberts

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1383
  • Darwins +48/-8
  • Gender: Male
  • Humanists. Not perfect. Not forgiven. Responsible.
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2013, 10:34:43 AM »
The existence of religious people proves there is no god as a god would not create people that stupid.

 Not everyone different from you is stupid.  - common error-
No correct, only the religious.

"Faith may be defined briefly as an illogical belief in the occurrence of the improbable. A man full of faith is simply one who has lost (or never had) the capacity for clear and realistic thought. He is not a mere ass; he is actually ill."
H.L. Mencken

That's a fine quote.  Does the author prove his point with peer reviewed research?  Or is he just another preacher who likes to hear his own voice.   You didn't provide any supporting data either.  You seem to be who he is referring to.
He would be, if I had faith in an imaginary friend.
   

Just one, there are literally thousand showing the same correlation worldwide, can they all be wrong.
I doubt it.
The less religious, the more intelligent.

Dumbness and religiousness are one and the same. New word "Dumligious". By what you have written here thus far you've certainly shown you're Dumligious.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 10:39:31 AM by bertatberts »
We theists have no evidence for our beliefs. So no amount of rational evidence will dissuade us from those beliefs. - JCisall

It would be pretty piss poor brainwashing, if the victims knew they were brainwashed, wouldn't it? - Screwtape. 04/12/12

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12210
  • Darwins +267/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2013, 11:27:16 AM »
Conversely, Can you find me a fallacy free argument that explains the universes ultimate origins and how you exclude a god from the list of possible alterantives.

1. Creation is an action.  As in, an act of creation.
2. Actions can only occur within a time-continuum.  Ie, without a prior state when something didn't exist, one cannot point to a latter state where it does and say that it came into being.
3. "Prior" to our space-time continuum, there was no time.
4. Therefore, "prior" to our space-time continuum, our space-time continuum could not have been created.

Got a problem with that reasoning?  Disagree with it anywhere?

A yes-or-no answer would have been nice, epidemic.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline SkyWriting

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 597
  • Darwins +9/-75
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2013, 02:04:45 PM »
Dumbness and religiousness are one and the same. New word "Dumligious". By what you have written here thus far you've certainly shown you're Dumligious.

I remember calling people names and making up new words for how
dumb other kids were.  Sometimes I'd like to be seven years old again.
Not often. 


Correlation is not the same as causation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
Not factually correct.  90 to 109 is the normal range of intelligence.  As this shows:



What you've shown is that people in poor areas are more likely to gain a larger
part of their limited education from religious institutions.  People in wealthier
parts of the country will receive more of their education through government
or secular learning institutions.  The more educated you are, the more likely
you will gain your education through a secular source. 

What your chart shows is that a lack of income exposes people to a more
religious education.  This is true worldwide.   
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 02:48:18 PM by SkyWriting »

Offline bertatberts

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1383
  • Darwins +48/-8
  • Gender: Male
  • Humanists. Not perfect. Not forgiven. Responsible.
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2013, 02:23:30 PM »
Dumbness and religiousness are one and the same. New word "Dumligious". By what you have written here thus far you've certainly shown you're Dumligious.

Not factually correct.  90 to 109 is the normal range of intelligence.  As this shows:
Sorry totally irrelevant. It's the fact that the Dumligious are at the lower end of the scale, which is key.

The more religious, the less intelligent, The less religious, the more intelligent. That is the point of the graph.
We theists have no evidence for our beliefs. So no amount of rational evidence will dissuade us from those beliefs. - JCisall

It would be pretty piss poor brainwashing, if the victims knew they were brainwashed, wouldn't it? - Screwtape. 04/12/12

Offline SkyWriting

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 597
  • Darwins +9/-75
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2013, 02:54:40 PM »
Dumbness and religiousness are one and the same. New word "Dumligious". By what you have written here thus far you've certainly shown you're Dumligious.

Not factually correct.  90 to 109 is the normal range of intelligence.  As this shows:
Sorry totally irrelevant. It's the fact that the Dumligious are at the lower end of the scale, which is key.

The more religious, the less intelligent, The less religious, the more intelligent. That is the point of the graph.

I can't seem to get this through. 
Correlation does not even imply causation.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

And I did mention peer reviewed sources.  Here is a place to begin your research:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=Brillouin+scattering+redshift
Blogs do not count.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 02:56:20 PM by SkyWriting »

Offline bertatberts

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1383
  • Darwins +48/-8
  • Gender: Male
  • Humanists. Not perfect. Not forgiven. Responsible.
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2013, 05:33:10 PM »
Dumbness and religiousness are one and the same. New word "Dumligious". By what you have written here thus far you've certainly shown you're Dumligious.

Not factually correct.  90 to 109 is the normal range of intelligence.  As this shows:
Sorry totally irrelevant. It's the fact that the Dumligious are at the lower end of the scale, which is key.

The more religious, the less intelligent, The less religious, the more intelligent. That is the point of the graph.

I can't seem to get this through. 
 Correlation does not even imply causation.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
Still irrelevant, Believing in fairy stories, doesn't hold good for critical thought.  Time to grow up.

Quote from: Sky Writer
And I did mention peer reviewed sources.  Here is a place to begin your research:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=Brillouin+scattering+redshift
Blogs do not count.
Haven't you got some sources to cite first.
We theists have no evidence for our beliefs. So no amount of rational evidence will dissuade us from those beliefs. - JCisall

It would be pretty piss poor brainwashing, if the victims knew they were brainwashed, wouldn't it? - Screwtape. 04/12/12

Online Graybeard

  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 6446
  • Darwins +463/-16
  • Gender: Male
  • Is this going somewhere?
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2013, 09:06:02 PM »

What you've shown is that people in poor areas are more likely to gain a larger part of their limited education from religious institutions.  People in wealthier parts of the country will receive more of their education through government or secular learning institutions.  The more educated you are, the more likely you will gain your education through a secular source. 

What your chart shows is that a lack of income exposes people to a more religious education.  This is true worldwide.   
I'm no expert on the US education system, but it seems to me that public schools would cater for the poor and fee-paying schools for the rich. US public schools do not teach religion - fee-paying ones may.
RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. Ambrose Bierce

Offline wright

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1732
  • Darwins +72/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • "Sleep like a log, snore like a chainsaw."
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2013, 09:40:16 PM »
I'm no expert on the US education system, but it seems to me that public schools would cater for the poor and fee-paying schools for the rich. US public schools do not teach religion - fee-paying ones may.

Correct; public schools in the US can't legally do or permit anything that endorses a particular faith. In practice, particularly in areas where religion (usually some form of Christianity) is an important part of community life, teachers and administrators may get away with such endorsement unless someone challenges them.

Some recent examples:

http://www.inquisitr.com/655708/texas-cheerleaders-god-ruling-okays-public-schools-endorsing-religion/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/06/ohio-creationism-proposal-springboro_n_3397661.html

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2013/07/01/in-mississippi-a-new-law-will-allow-religious-proselytizing-in-public-schools/

Edit: fixed some typos.

« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 09:42:54 PM by wright »
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Offline junebug72

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1999
  • Darwins +71/-80
  • Gender: Female
  • "Question Everything"
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #40 on: July 05, 2013, 07:45:36 AM »
It's a mystery.  A mystery I can't seem to shut off in my mind.  I don't subscribe to religious explanations/definitions of gods.  I don't think a god would use magic or will power to create life but rather complete and total knowledge.  To me to say there is no god/gods is much more "supernatural" than an intelligent design explanation due to the complexity of life.  The amount of luck it would take to get everything just right is not logical to me. 

When I love, I love with all my heart and all my "soul".  Some people call it guts.  There is a spiritual side to human life,IMO.  It has no shape or form without flesh.  It can not be put under a microscope.  It can not be seen, only felt.  This is why I believe there is an Intelligent Designer that loves us.  I feel connected to the ID in my soul the more I love and behave with kindness.  The flesh doesn't give this body Life, the spirit does,IMO. 

I believe the human race would be more dangerous than we already are with the "secrets" of life.   

Screwtape, I know you subscribe to the idea that dumb people are dangerous.  I just want to point out to you that it wasn't dummies that created nuclear bombs, poverty or pollution, or maybe they are!   Yea a poor dumb kid might murder a couple of people but an intelligent scientist can destroy the world!!!  Dumb people can be very sweet;childlike, depending on the environment that he/she has been exposed to.  I worked with some mentally challenged adults one time and with some patience and supervision they were able to do a good job.  A smart man paid for 5 of them for the price of 1 of me. 

My point is intelligence isn't everything.  It is a blessing, a responsibility to your fellow man.  Being angry over intelligence is like being angry over the sky being blue.  Dumb people can be productive individuals.  There is a lot of inexcusable cruel things said and done by religious people but I believe it better defeated with compassion and understanding rather than anger and offensive conversation.  It is just mean to call anyone dumb or stupid, whether it is true or not.  It's no different from saying fatso or four eyes.   To me the most dangerous human is the intelligent ones w/o a conscience.

There are positives that we can see in this reality when we live our lives to higher moral standards.  That can be tested and falsified or whatever you call it in the scientific world.  It is from where we develop our standards of morality that I call our soul.  Our conscience.  You can test the results of living a life where right is chosen over wrong.  I believe there is a reason that a life lived to high moral standards is a more peaceful life for a reason.  There is a reason why a "good" person feels bad when they do something wrong.  Evil comes from humans that have no conscience.  This comes from being exposed to what most of us would consider morally wrong environments?  You know violence begets violence. It takes love and compassion to have peace.  And trust me when I say that there is nothing in this world as sweet as peace.  Money can't buy it, money destroys it. 

Now that is why I believe there is an Intelligent Designer that encourages us to love one another but it has to be a choice.  There is no "honor" in being forced to love.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

Read more at http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/t/thomas_paine.html#XXwlhVIMq06zWg2d.99

Offline jetson

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 7268
  • Darwins +169/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Meet George Jetson!
    • Jet Blog
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2013, 08:19:58 AM »
There are no gods, there never have been, and there never will be.  Gods are a human invention.

Offline SkyWriting

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 597
  • Darwins +9/-75
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2013, 09:41:40 AM »
I'm no expert on the US education system, but it seems to me that public schools would cater for the poor and fee-paying schools for the rich. US public schools do not teach religion - fee-paying ones may.

My point is that there are socioeconomic factors for the poor having higher levels of religion in their lives.  One of the many reasons people are poor is lower IQ than average.  Just because poor people do have lower incomes, does not mean that a lower income person has low IQ.  Low IQ is just one of many reasons that a person may end up poor.  If a "house-wife" looses a spouse from divorce or death, she may be poor or even homeless.  Her IQ doesn't drop because she is suddenly poor.      Correlation is not causation.

Offline SkyWriting

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 597
  • Darwins +9/-75
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #43 on: July 05, 2013, 09:44:25 AM »
There are no gods, there never have been, and there never will be.  Gods are a human invention.

It's odd the "invention" is so persistent and almost universal even among the most remote tribes through all known history. 

Offline William

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3564
  • Darwins +92/-2
  • Gender: Male
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #44 on: July 05, 2013, 09:47:51 AM »
There are positives that we can see in this reality when we live our lives to higher moral standards.
Of course there are positives to higher moral standards - we agree on that.
I do not see any leaders in atheism and rational thinking advocating that we seek out lower moral standards.
They are doing the opposite by questioning all our sources of morality and looking for ways to improve our moral thinking.
 
Now that is why I believe there is an Intelligent Designer that encourages us to love one another but it has to be a choice.
That's an idea you share with many people.  But does it make sense?  Read on please.
 
Why can family (genetics and environment) determine that people are MORE THAN 4 TIMES MORE LIKELY to do violent crime?  Do kids brought up in these families really have FREE will and CHOICE?
Quote
Violent crime runs in families: a total population study of 12.5 million individuals.
We found strong familial aggregation of interpersonal violence among first-degree relatives [e.g. odds ratio (OR)sibling 4.3, 95% confidence interval (CI) 4.2-4.3], lower for more distant relatives (e.g. OR cousin 1.9, 95% CI 1.9-1.9). Risk patterns across biological and adoptive relations provided evidence for both genetic and environmental influences on the development of violent behavior.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20334717

What was the "designer" doing with the genetics in these families?
What was the "designer" thinking when he/she/it made children susceptible to these criminal environments?  Why doesn't "encouragement" work equally in all people?

The concept of free will is confusing even to judges.  A diagnosis that a person is an untreatable psychopath (no choice) increases their sentence, but once the judges are told it's genetic (an explanation for no choice) they swing the other way  :o
Quote
Without a diagnosis, the judges surveyed said they would have given the man a sentence of about nine years. Once he had been diagnosed as an untreatable psychopath, however, the average sentence jumped to 14 years. When judges were presented with biological evidence of the genetic mutation, this sentence was lowered to around 13 years, regardless of whether the evidence was presented by the prosecution or defence.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn22189-scientific-explanation-of-psychopathy-cuts-jail-time.html#.UdbS3Mt-86Y

So what is fair for a person who is born different to others? Should we punish criminal individuals differently depending on how much empathy or "conscience" the "designer" gave them?

Isn't it the best thing for morality if we at least suspend the idea of a designer till we get to the bottom of this idea of free will and "choice"?

Git mit uns

Offline SkyWriting

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 597
  • Darwins +9/-75
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #45 on: July 05, 2013, 09:56:10 AM »
Dumbness and religiousness are one and the same. New word "Dumligious". By what you have written here thus far you've certainly shown you're Dumligious.

Not factually correct.  90 to 109 is the normal range of intelligence.  As this shows:
Sorry totally irrelevant. It's the fact that the Dumligious are at the lower end of the scale, which is key.

The more religious, the less intelligent, The less religious, the more intelligent. That is the point of the graph.

I can't seem to get this through. 
 Correlation does not even imply causation.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
Still irrelevant, Believing in fairy stories, doesn't hold good for critical thought.  Time to grow up.

Quote from: Sky Writer
And I did mention peer reviewed sources.  Here is a place to begin your research:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=Brillouin+scattering+redshift
Blogs do not count.
Haven't you got some sources to cite first.

Nope.  Your claim that religious people have a lower IQ is without proper documentation.

The link above is where you could find such research.  If none exists, then create your own and submit it for peer review.   Which you have done.  The data you've presented shows a correlation of factors.   However, correlation does not imply causation.  Your data fails the test of proper scrutiny.

Lots of black people live in Alabama.
This does not imply that any black person you see is in Alabama.
Nor does it imply they came from Alabama or they are going to Alabama.

Correlation does not imply causation.

Offline William

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 3564
  • Darwins +92/-2
  • Gender: Male
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #46 on: July 05, 2013, 10:07:07 AM »
There are no gods, there never have been, and there never will be.  Gods are a human invention.

It's odd the "invention" is so persistent and almost universal even among the most remote tribes through all known history.

No. The really "odd" thing is that remote tribes all invented amazingly different gods with bizarre attributes.
If there is a god out there it's hopeless at conveying truth.

That remote tribes attempted to explain a mystery (their origin - before they had science to help) is not even slightly odd. 
Curiosity and the instinctive ability to assign cause are both abilities that aid survival.
Deities and religions are an unfortunate side-effect - but nevertheless an idea that shamans (clergy) are happy to piggy-back for sheltered employment, power, sex, and many other benefits in this world.
Git mit uns

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12210
  • Darwins +267/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #47 on: July 05, 2013, 03:29:36 PM »
It's odd the "invention" is so persistent and almost universal even among the most remote tribes through all known history.

Tools for eating food are also persistent and almost universal, even among the most remote tribes through all known history.  They're still inventions.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Online shnozzola

Re: Does god exist
« Reply #48 on: July 05, 2013, 04:06:27 PM »
To me to say there is no god/gods is much more "supernatural" than an intelligent design explanation due to the complexity of life.  The amount of luck it would take to get everything just right is not logical to me.

Junebug, I don't understand how you can say that after all the arguments you have been a part of here at WWGHA.

Everything is not just right.  You put the cart before the horse.  We study so much of our universal environment where humans cannot exist (like almost the entire universe).  Look how much of the earth is ocean but humanity cannot exist underwater.   We study so much of the human body showing unnecessary organs, functions, etc.  It is sad  how many people continue to think that God put the earth at the right distance from the sun or we would not have survived after he made us.  Do you not, after spending so much time here, test the view in your own mind that everything "is" because of the way everything "is" , not by any previous design?

The reason we evolved the way we are is from the vast, step by step "experimentation" of time, positive and negative charges, oily pools and lipids and proteins over the entire earth, leading to simple celled things that became plants that became simple animals that became each species leading to humans (maybe I should have said, leading to dolphins :)).  It is sad that a non existing hard to define" being" gets the credit for what has been developed by natural forces on this planet over a heluva lot of time.

 And, IMO, that takes nothing away from the beauty of this natural system. In fact, it makes it that much more cool, doesn't it?

edit:  here's an article about legumes that "fix" the nitrogen in the air using bacteria
                          http://seattletilth.org/learn/resources-1/almanac/october/octobermngg
   - can you look at that as a natural outcome of evolution instead of a design by a "being"?
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 04:32:32 PM by shnozzola »
“I wanna go ice fishing on Europa, and see if something swims up to the camera lens and licks it.”- Neil deGrasse Tyson

Offline SkyWriting

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 597
  • Darwins +9/-75
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #49 on: July 05, 2013, 04:20:48 PM »
It's odd the "invention" is so persistent and almost universal even among the most remote tribes through all known history.

Tools for eating food are also persistent and almost universal, even among the most remote tribes through all known history.  They're still inventions.

So they are filling a universal natural need that is not naturally filled by society.
I agree.  Therefore I have Faith. 

Offline skepticlogician

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 260
  • Darwins +1/-0
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #50 on: July 05, 2013, 04:27:02 PM »
There are no gods, there never have been, and there never will be.  Gods are a human invention.

It's odd the "invention" is so persistent and almost universal even among the most remote tribes through all known history.

The sensation of 'seeing faces' where there are none is also universal among all human beings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia). Do these faces suddenly become faces of 'real living beings' just because most human brains perceive this pattern?
"Evolutionists have proof without any certainty. Creationists have certainty without any proof."

Offline SkyWriting

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 597
  • Darwins +9/-75
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #51 on: July 05, 2013, 04:29:54 PM »
There are no gods, there never have been, and there never will be.  Gods are a human invention.

It's odd the "invention" is so persistent and almost universal even among the most remote tribes through all known history.

No. The really "odd" thing is that remote tribes all invented amazingly different gods with bizarre attributes.
If there is a god out there it's hopeless at conveying truth.

That remote tribes attempted to explain a mystery (their origin - before they had science to help) is not even slightly odd. 
Curiosity and the instinctive ability to assign cause are both abilities that aid survival.
Deities and religions are an unfortunate side-effect - but nevertheless an idea that shamans (clergy) are happy to piggy-back for sheltered employment, power, sex, and many other benefits in this world.

Perhaps absolute accuracy is not critical.  I find the rest of your analysis about the actions of sinners correct and predicted by scripture.

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12210
  • Darwins +267/-31
  • Gender: Male
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #52 on: July 05, 2013, 04:35:36 PM »
So they are filling a universal natural need that is not naturally filled by society.
I agree.  Therefore I have Faith.

It's a part of being human.  Not an inherently good or bad thing - just an accident of our makeup that we like to make eating utensils and gods.
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline SkyWriting

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 597
  • Darwins +9/-75
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #53 on: July 05, 2013, 04:37:44 PM »
There are no gods, there never have been, and there never will be.  Gods are a human invention.

It's odd the "invention" is so persistent and almost universal even among the most remote tribes through all known history.

The sensation of 'seeing faces' where there are none is also universal among all human beings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia). Do these faces suddenly become faces of 'real living beings' just because most human brains perceive this pattern?

I am blessed to have this happen daily and wish I had a camera with me at all times.
And no, I've never had a thought about them becoming real.
I can see that some might though.


Offline SkyWriting

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 597
  • Darwins +9/-75
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #54 on: July 05, 2013, 04:39:36 PM »
So they are filling a universal natural need that is not naturally filled by society.
I agree.  Therefore I have Faith.

It's a part of being human.  Not an inherently good or bad thing - just an accident of our makeup that we like to make eating utensils and gods.

I don't believe either one is an accident.

Offline jaimehlers

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4626
  • Darwins +511/-12
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #55 on: July 05, 2013, 04:48:29 PM »
I don't believe either one is an accident.
That's because they aren't accidents.  Both come from our inherent nature as human beings.

Telling stories to others is also part of our nature and does not happen by accident.  That doesn't necessarily mean that the stories are factual, or that they really happened.

Offline skepticlogician

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 260
  • Darwins +1/-0
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #56 on: July 05, 2013, 04:53:15 PM »
So they are filling a universal natural need that is not naturally filled by society.
I agree.  Therefore I have Faith.

It's a part of being human.  Not an inherently good or bad thing - just an accident of our makeup that we like to make eating utensils and gods.

I don't believe either one is an accident.

If none of those are accidents, might as well include Pareidolia in there...
Does Pareidolia fill a universal natural need that is not naturally filled by society?
"Evolutionists have proof without any certainty. Creationists have certainty without any proof."

Offline SkyWriting

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 597
  • Darwins +9/-75
  • User posts join approval queueModerated
Re: Does god exist
« Reply #57 on: July 05, 2013, 05:19:54 PM »
So they are filling a universal natural need that is not naturally filled by society.
I agree.  Therefore I have Faith.

It's a part of being human.  Not an inherently good or bad thing - just an accident of our makeup that we like to make eating utensils and gods.

I don't believe either one is an accident.

If none of those are accidents, might as well include Pareidolia in there...
Does Pareidolia fill a universal natural need that is not naturally filled by society?

Indeed, fellowship and human intimacy is endowed unto us by our Creator
as a fundamental human need.  If you spend much time in the woods alone
human faces might appear in time.   It seems to happen only when alone.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 05:22:53 PM by SkyWriting »