Author Topic: no more god for UK girl guides  (Read 521 times)

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Offline Mrjason

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Offline mrbiscoop

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Re: no more god for UK girl guides
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2013, 02:29:50 PM »
Little by little...
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: no more god for UK girl guides
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2013, 04:21:30 AM »
Its a great step.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline idontknow

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Re: no more god for UK girl guides
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2013, 12:49:44 AM »
"I promise that I will do my best: to be true to myself and develop my beliefs." What if they're perverse and antisocial beliefs?
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved" - Acts 16:31 (NKJV)

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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: no more god for UK girl guides
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2013, 12:56:34 AM »
So do conservative christian groups in the UK have a cow and whine over these types of changes they way they do in the US?
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline wright

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Re: no more god for UK girl guides
« Reply #5 on: July 22, 2013, 02:25:59 AM »
Nice to see another move towards secularization.

"I promise that I will do my best: to be true to myself and develop my beliefs." What if they're perverse and antisocial beliefs?

First, define "perverse and antisocial".

Second, the guidance of adults and peers in a child's life is usually adequate for most kids to learn the mores of their society. The truly disfunctional (habitual criminals, sociopaths and psychopaths) are a decided minority.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Offline idontknow

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Re: no more god for UK girl guides
« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2013, 02:44:01 AM »
Nice to see another move towards secularization.

"I promise that I will do my best: to be true to myself and develop my beliefs." What if they're perverse and antisocial beliefs?

First, define "perverse and antisocial".

Second, the guidance of adults and peers in a child's life is usually adequate for most kids to learn the mores of their society. The truly disfunctional (habitual criminals, sociopaths and psychopaths) are a decided minority.

Well, let's use your words to help define my terms. What if she believes in criminal, sociopathic, and psychopathic acts? It's a silly and useless oath. Well, that part of it is. Reminds me of when my commencement speaker encouraged us to follow our dreams, as if all dreams are good and worthwhile pursuits. Bland platitudes.
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved" - Acts 16:31 (NKJV)

"A page of history is worth a volume of logic." Oliver Wendell Holmes, New York Trust Co. v. Eisner, 256 U.S. 345, 349 (1921)

Offline William

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Re: no more god for UK girl guides
« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2013, 02:59:59 AM »
Bland platitudes.

Um ... no!  You forgot the part that says:
Quote
"...to serve the Queen and my community, to help other people and to keep the (Brownie) Guide law."


Leaving the Queen out of it for now, nobody can serve a community and help people by holding and behaving in accordance with: "perverse and antisocial beliefs"

The "Guide law" would also be very quickly trashed if it was compatible with: "perverse and antisocial beliefs"  :police:

I think the secular oath holds up to reason (except for the "Queen" bit but that is another debate.)

Git mit uns

Offline wright

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Re: no more god for UK girl guides
« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2013, 03:30:40 AM »
Well, let's use your words to help define my terms. What if she believes in criminal, sociopathic, and psychopathic acts?

To restate what I said, most people are not dysfunctional to the point where their beliefs are so far from the norm. Those who truly are usually end up dead or institutionalized. Our theoretical criminal sociopathic psychotic is not likely to go undetected and unchecked for long. On the whole, human society manages to function and even prosper despite its parasites and exploiters.

It's a silly and useless oath. Well, that part of it is. Reminds me of when my commencement speaker encouraged us to follow our dreams, as if all dreams are good and worthwhile pursuits. Bland platitudes.

Being inclusive often lends itself to a degree of blandness, true. What inspires someone may make the person next to them yawn. Why not look on such platitudes as simply a starting point?
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
--Marcus Aurelius

Online Azdgari

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Re: no more god for UK girl guides
« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2013, 07:02:51 AM »
"I promise that I will do my best: to be true to myself and develop my beliefs." What if they're perverse and antisocial beliefs?

You mean like the belief that people are guilty for the crimes of their ancestors?  I can see your problem with this; they should take out the reference to beliefs entirely, shouldn't they?
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: no more god for UK girl guides
« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2013, 05:00:50 PM »
If the girls instead swore an oath to obey god, what would that mean? Which god? Christian? OT or NT? Hindu? Xenu? Thor? And to obey which parts of what that god said?

Besides, saying something does not mean a person believes it.  Like every psychopath who swore to tell the truth on a bible really told the truth? "I swear I did not kill, chop up and eat that family. But they were tasty."

Why do religious people think that having religion around makes people good?

The oath might as well be bland, so at least it includes everyone. &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: no more god for UK girl guides
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2013, 06:05:47 PM »

It's a silly and useless oath.

Perhaps they should take no oath then.  Just hand out their little badges and send them on their little way.  Forget any type of ceremony.  Heck, forget the badges.  We don't need no stinking badges.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: no more god for UK girl guides
« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2013, 06:09:59 PM »
In reading through the comments that follow the article link, the biggest beef locally seems to be concerning service to to queen.  I may be jaded but I see a lot less malice and personal attacking in their comments than comments I see in American counterparts.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.