Author Topic: Why ask the question? [#2748]  (Read 1083 times)

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Offline pianodwarf

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Why ask the question? [#2748]
« on: June 18, 2013, 04:18:24 PM »
Why, is the question man has been asking since Adam and Eve left the Garden. Your questioning God is nothing new or unique in it's insight or even very imaginative. Without realizing it, you prove the existence of God by your own questioning. You demand proof. Why should He or any Evangelical Christian provide it for you. If God healed an amputee, it would do nothing for you. It would not cause you to believe. We all believe in something. You believe in yourself and your own abilities to reason against God's existence. The debate would benefit no-one. You only want to disprove His existence. Belief in anything comes from within us. You are your own God. You believe in you and only in what you can see. You have no understanding of God's Word, but yet try to disprove it. Human wisdom and understanding is limited. God's plan in the Bible is simple from front to back; He seeks to save that which is lost and loves very much. That is what I believe. You want to believe in your own understanding. That certainly is your choice and I respect it. It would be futile for me or anyone else to try and persuade you and likewise it would be so for you to try and persuade me. We all live under the same conditions making our own choices. I defend with all I have your right to believe there is no God and your right to preach it to all who will listen. I wonder if our country and people such as yourself will defend my right to believe in a creator who loves me and sent His Son to die for me. You pick verses you don't like; nor understand in any context and try to make them out to be brutal and uncaring. You lack any understanding of the covenants God has made with the Jews and the gentiles. You seek no understanding! You want to do the same as mankind has done since the fall; make God to be what you want Him to be; and when He doesn't do that you say "I refuse to believe". You want God to heal amputees and you say that because He doesn't, there is no God. You challenge Christianity as a myth and spend much time and effort doing so. I ask you sir; Why? What do you have to offer mankind that God has not already provided? What do you have for anyone to believe in? What do you have to give them when they believe as you do and refuse their eternal security in Christ? What help do you offer them when tragedies come, when loved one's die, or when we see the whole world is falling apart believing as you do. You have spent much time and effort challenging all Christians to prove why they believe in Christ. I wish you would truly love them and share what you have to give them when they turn their back on God. I fear you have nothing to give them that can ever replace what God has done for us; the forgiveness, the peace, the joy, and rest in all that He has promised. You would rather focus on what you "feel" God has not done or proven instead of trying to experience all that He has done. Your challenges mean nothing. You take great pride in the fact that none accept your challenge. A debate has never saved even one. Any true lasting and meaningful relationship takes two parties to be committed. You are only committed to yourself. It is the inherited human nature from Adam for a man to be "wise in his own eyes" and full of himself. For me, I choose to be full of Christ. I will do so because not only have I found the Bible to be the Truth, but I have witnessed it in my own relationship with the Father. My soul attests to the Truth of His Word. I am neither delusional nor programmed as you would espouse. You are free to believe as you wish as all of us are. God gave that right to us; to choose. Continue your challenge of God. What do you offer in place of Him? Will it satisfy all who hear it? Will it provide them any peace, any joy, or any comfort when the storms come? I say you have nothing to offer anyone who might choose to challenge God's existence. God is God. He will never change just because you demand proof of Him. The proof is in the relationship with Him and you lack that. You want proof! There is only one way to find it. Give yourself to Him and all will be revealed to you. I know you will have an answer for all that I have said. I hope your answers hold up on the final day of judgment. For we all will know then for sure!              [name removed]
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline One Above All

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Re: Why ask the question? [#2748]
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2013, 04:22:23 PM »
I'd reply to your email, but there are no paragraphs. Mind signing up and paragraphing properly?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline shnozzola

Re: Why ask the question? [#2748]
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2013, 04:44:53 PM »
It's so hard to read a wall-o-words.  Anyway, stop working and worrying and live like the sparrows if god is everything you say he is.  We are on our own, my friend, and deep down almost every human knows it, that is why we go to the doctor and not just pray.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 04:48:24 PM by shnozzola »
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Offline EV

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Re: Why ask the question? [#2748]
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2013, 05:42:08 PM »
I'd reply to your email, but there are no paragraphs. Mind signing up and paragraphing properly?

Fixed the paragraphing and some of the grammar and spelling errors for you. Enjoy:

Why, is the question man has been asking since Adam and Eve left the Garden. Your questioning God is nothing new or unique in its insight or even very imaginative. Without realizing it, you prove the existence of God by your own questioning. You demand proof. Why should He or any Evangelical Christian provide it for you?

If God healed an amputee, it would do nothing for you. It would not cause you to believe. We all believe in something. You believe in yourself and your own abilities to reason against God's existence. The debate would benefit nobody. You only want to disprove His existence.

Belief in anything comes from within us. You are your own God. You believe in you and only in what you can see. You have no understanding of God's Word, but yet try to disprove it. Human wisdom and understanding is limited. God's plan in the Bible is simple from front to back; He seeks to save that which is lost and loves very much. That is what I believe. You want to believe in your own understanding. That certainly is your choice and I respect it. It would be futile for me or anyone else to try and persuade you and likewise it would be so for you to try and persuade me. We all live under the same conditions making our own choices.

I defend with all I have your right to believe that there is no God and your right to preach it to all who will listen. I wonder if our country and people such as you will defend my right to believe in a creator who loves me and sent His Son to die for me. You pick verses you don't like; nor understand in any context and try to make them out to be brutal and uncaring.

You lack any understanding of the covenants God has made with the Jews and the gentiles. You seek no understanding! You want to do the same as mankind has done since the fall; make God to be what you want Him to be; and when He doesn't do that you say, "I refuse to believe". You want God to heal amputees and you say that because He doesn't, there is no God.

You challenge Christianity as a myth and spend much time and effort doing so. I ask you sir; Why? What do you have to offer mankind that God has not already provided? What do you have for anyone to believe in? What do you have to give them when they believe as you do and refuse their eternal security in Christ? What help do you offer them when tragedies come, when loved ones die, or when we see the whole world is falling apart believing as you do.

You have spent much time and effort challenging all Christians to prove why they believe in Christ. I wish you would truly love them and share what you have to give them when they turn their back on God. I fear you have nothing to give them that can ever replace what God has done for us; the forgiveness, the peace, the joy, and rest in all that He has promised.

You would rather focus on what you "feel" God has not done or proven instead of trying to experience all that He has done. Your challenges mean nothing. You take great pride in the fact that none accept your challenge. A debate has never saved even one. Any true lasting and meaningful relationship takes two parties to be committed. You are only committed to yourself. It is the inherited human nature from Adam for a man to be "wise in his own eyes" and full of himself.

For me, I choose to be full of Christ. I will do so because not only have I found the Bible to be the Truth, but also I have witnessed it in my own relationship with the Father. My soul attests to the Truth of His Word. I am neither delusional nor programmed, as you would espouse. You are free to believe as you wish as all of us are. God gave that right to us; to choose. Continue your challenge of God. What do you offer in place of Him? Will it satisfy all who hear it? Will it provide them any peace, any joy, or any comfort when the storms come?

I say you have nothing to offer anyone who might choose to challenge God's existence. God is God. He will never change just because you demand proof of Him. The proof is in the relationship with Him and you lack that.

You want proof! There is only one way to find it. Give yourself to Him and all will be revealed to you. I know you will have an answer for all that I have said. I hope your answers hold up on the final Day of Judgment. For we all will know then for sure!              [name removed]



Edit: Huzzah, my 600th Post on WWGHA was a post correcting someone's terrible grammar. I feel so dead inside.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Why ask the question? [#2748]
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2013, 06:39:43 PM »
Short version: (1) He said he was full of something....oh, yes, Christ.
                      (2) He wants to know what we put in place of God.  Answer...rational thought.
                      (3) proof: we need to wait until we die and we should give ourselves to the Lord to know stuff.
                                 (I guess he does not know that many of us were in that delusional state at one time).
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Online ParkingPlaces

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Re: Why ask the question? [#2748]
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2013, 06:45:42 PM »
Hey EV. Good job. You made it readable.

As for the original writer, yep, when I was in the military, I was defending your right to believe along with my right not to believe. But I wasn't defending your right to shove creationism down my son's throat in his science classes, or your right to say that since the version of marriage in the bible that you like best is between a man and a woman, you want everyone to have to do it that way.

And while my ideal world does indeed include a complete lack of gods, I don't actually expect that to happen. Nor do I expect your particular denomination of christianity to take over the planet and make it a monoculture of paragraphless acolytes.

When you feel a strong attachment to your god and say that you experience him in your life, but I feel nothing even remotely similar, which is more likely? Your perfect god messed up, or the lack of a god allows for people to have a variety of feelings and reactions and interpretations about similar experiences?
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline One Above All

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Re: Why ask the question? [#2748]
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2013, 06:52:18 PM »
Well, EV organized your mess of a post, so I thought I'd give it a whirl.

Quote from: #2748
Why, is the question man has been asking since Adam and Eve left the Garden.

I sure hope you're being metaphorical here. There was no real Adam or Eve or Eden.
Also, they didn't "leave", according to your mythology. They were kicked out because they had become like YHWH, knowing good and evil.

Quote from: #2748
Your questioning God is nothing new or unique in its insight or even very imaginative.

That's good. If it were new, it'd mean people had blindly accepted religion without using their brains.

Quote from: #2748
Without realizing it, you prove the existence of God by your own questioning.

LOL.
Sorry, but that's the only positive reaction I can think of to such a flawed statement. The question demolishes any and all claims for a god that intervenes in humans' affairs by healing.

Quote from: #2748
You demand proof. Why should He or any Evangelical Christian provide it for you?

If your beliefs are true, evidence[1] shouldn't be hard to provide.

Quote from: #2748
If God healed an amputee, it would do nothing for you. It would not cause you to believe.

It would certainly cause some to doubt their non-belief. Personally, I wouldn't be moved, but that's another story.

Quote from: #2748
We all believe in something. You believe in yourself and your own abilities to reason against God's existence.

Sorry, but you're just plain wrong. How about instead of asserting what you believe we believe, you ask us what we believe?

Quote from: #2748
The debate would benefit nobody. You only want to disprove His existence.

The debate has served to deconvert believers. It benefited them.
Also, we don't just want to disprove your god's existence. That's child's play. The main goal is to get people to see things in a rational way. At least that's my purpose. I can't speak for all atheists.

Quote from: #2748
Belief in anything comes from within us.

We can agree on that. Belief comes from the brain.

Quote from: #2748
You are your own God.

Do I seem omniscient and omnipotent to you? Benevolent, yes, but not omniscient or omnipotent.

Quote from: #2748
You believe in you and only in what you can see.

Wrong. Again, assuming you know what we believe in rather than asking us. Ever heard of stereotyping?

Quote from: #2748
You have no understanding of God's Word, but yet try to disprove it.

Why don't you sign up and explain to us why your view is the right one?

Quote from: #2748
Human wisdom and understanding is limited.

Too true. The universe is nearly infinite, which means there's a near infinite number of things we don't know.

Quote from: #2748
God's plan in the Bible is simple from front to back; He seeks to save that which is lost and loves very much.

Quote from: Exodus 34:14
Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.
Source: http://biblehub.com/exodus/34-14.htm

Quote from: Psalm 137:9
Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.
Source: http://biblehub.com/psalms/137-9.htm

Quote from: Zephaniah 3:6-19
"I have wiped out many nations, devastating their fortress walls and towers.  Their cities are now deserted; their streets are in silent ruin.  There are no survivors to even tell what happened.  I thought, 'Surely they will have reverence for me now!  Surely they will listen to my warnings, so I won't need to strike again.'  But no; however much I punish them, they continue their evil practices from dawn till dusk and dusk till dawn."  So now the LORD says: "Be patient; the time is coming soon when I will stand up and accuse these evil nations.  For it is my decision to gather together the kingdoms of the earth and pour out my fiercest anger and fury on them.  All the earth will be devoured by the fire of my jealousy.  "On that day I will purify the lips of all people, so that everyone will be able to worship the LORD together.  My scattered people who live beyond the rivers of Ethiopia will come to present their offerings.

Doesn't sound so loving to Me. These are just some of the many examples of YHWH's cruelty. In fact, if you actually read the Bible, you'd see just how petty, bratty and child-like YHWH is.

Quote from: #2748
That is what I believe.

Your belief is wrong, as per the Bible.

Quote from: #2748
You want to believe in your own understanding.

So do you.

Quote from: #2748
That certainly is your choice and I respect it. It would be futile for me or anyone else to try and persuade you and likewise it would be so for you to try and persuade me. We all live under the same conditions making our own choices.

Belief is not a choice. It's the end result of processing the evidence.

Quote from: #2748
I defend with all I have your right to believe that there is no God and your right to preach it to all who will listen.

Atheists, by the very definition of the word, cannot preach. They also don't believe there's no god. They don't believe in a god. Huge difference that you're clearly not getting.

Quote from: #2748
I wonder if our country and people such as you will defend my right to believe in a creator who loves me and sent His Son to die for me.

I'd defend your right to believe whatever you'd like, as long as you don't use your beliefs to justify causing harm to others.

Quote from: #2748
You pick verses you don't like; nor understand in any context and try to make them out to be brutal and uncaring.

Mind explaining why context makes those verses any better? How does YHWH sending two bears to kill little children just because they mocked a bald guy make sense (given that, according to you, YHWH loves us)?

Quote from: #2748
You lack any understanding of the covenants God has made with the Jews and the gentiles.
<snip>

Then join the forum and explain to us, oh mighty prophet, why it is that we're wrong. If you can, I guarantee you'll convert some people.

Quote from: #2748
You challenge Christianity as a myth and spend much time and effort doing so.

Christianity is a myth. A myth, by its very definition, is a collection of religious beliefs that attempt to explain where we come from.

Quote from: #2748
I ask you sir; Why?

Maybe because theists use their beliefs to justify harming others. Maybe because theists are deluded and slow down scientific development. Ever heard of the dark ages? Or nowadays?

Quote from: #2748
What do you have to offer mankind that God has not already provided?

Flying cars, hope, knowledge, medicine, more knowledge, food, assistance, even more knowledge... The list goes on. That's because your god is not real, and so cannot provide anything.

Quote from: #2748
What do you have for anyone to believe in? What do you have to give them when they believe as you do and refuse their eternal security in Christ? What help do you offer them when tragedies come, when loved ones die,

Atheists provide just as much assistance as theists, if not more so. We also provide it without the threat of hell or reward of heaven hanging over our heads. We are more peaceful (check the peace index on Wikipedia and match it against religiosity and you'll see a pattern emerging), more healthy (check the average lifespan and match it against religiosity), more educated (check the level of education versus religiosity), have less abortions (you probably know what I'm going to say here), less crime, higher incomes...

Quote from: #2748
or when we see the whole world is falling apart believing as you do.

I sure hope you're not implying the world is falling apart because of atheists. Theists are the ones who get elected as leaders. Theists are the ones who start wars in the name of their false gods. Theists are the ones who let their kids die because they don't believe in vaccines. You want peace? Start worshiping Me.

Quote from: #2748
You have spent much time and effort challenging all Christians to prove why they believe in Christ. I wish you would truly love them and share what you have to give them when they turn their back on God. I fear you have nothing to give them that can ever replace what God has done for us; the forgiveness, the peace, the joy, and rest in all that He has promised.

I can promise a lot of shit too, Mr. #2748. That doesn't mean dick.
Also, as for love, I've loved many theists. I didn't attempt to change their minds about god either.

Quote from: #2748
You would rather focus on what you "feel" God has not done or proven instead of trying to experience all that He has done.

He has done nothing. When the choice is between "nothing" or "everything", I choose "everything". It's simply more logical.

Quote from: #2748
Your challenges mean nothing.

They've helped deconvert some people, so they do mean something.

Quote from: #2748
You take great pride in the fact that none accept your challenge.

Theists accept the challenge. They just fail miserably, like you have.

Quote from: #2748
A debate has never saved even one.

Again, it's helped deconvert some people. It has saved them from the shackles of religion.

Quote from: #2748
Any true lasting and meaningful relationship takes two parties to be committed.

Too true. I wonder why your god chooses to be absent then.

Quote from: #2748
You are only committed to yourself. It is the inherited human nature from Adam for a man to be "wise in his own eyes" and full of himself.

I'm not full of Myself, AFAIK, nor am I committed only to myself.

Quote from: #2748
For me, I choose to be full of Christ.

Bro(?), I don't mean to be disrespectful, but that sounds gay. And this is coming from a bisexual.

Quote from: #2748
I will do so because not only have I found the Bible to be the Truth, but also I have witnessed it in my own relationship with the Father.

I'm sure you have a great relationship with your father. With your god... not so much.

Quote from: #2748
My soul attests to the Truth of His Word. I am neither delusional nor programmed, as you would espouse.

You are both. You just don't realize it. You'd need to step outside your delusion bubble to be able to see things clearly.
Also, what is a soul? Can you provide evidence for it? Let me put it another way: can you provide evidence for any of your claims?

Quote from: #2748
You are free to believe as you wish as all of us are. God gave that right to us; to choose.

Again, belief is not a choice.

Quote from: #2748
Continue your challenge of God. What do you offer in place of Him? Will it satisfy all who hear it? Will it provide them any peace, any joy, or any comfort when the storms come?

I offer rationality in place of gods. It will satisfy all those who seek the truth. It will provide them peace, joy and comfort at any moment, just by knowing that they know the truth.

Quote from: #2748
I say you have nothing to offer anyone who might choose to challenge God's existence. God is God. He will never change just because you demand proof of Him. The proof is in the relationship with Him and you lack that.

Most of us were christians at one point or another. We all became atheists. Strange, isn't it?

Quote from: #2748
You want proof! There is only one way to find it. Give yourself to Him and all will be revealed to you. I know you will have an answer for all that I have said. I hope your answers hold up on the final Day of Judgment. For we all will know then for sure!              [name removed]

Sorry, but I promised I wouldn't give myself to another man until I was ready.
 1. And note that most atheists request (not demand) evidence; not proof.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Nam

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Re: Why ask the question? [#2748]
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2013, 06:55:36 PM »
How difficult is it to use a space bar?

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline Timtheskeptic

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Re: Why ask the question? [#2748]
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2013, 07:23:37 PM »
Why, is the question man has been asking since Adam and Eve left the Garden. Your questioning God is nothing new or unique in it's insight or even very imaginative.

Well yeah, but there’s nothing wrong with asking questions.

Quote
Without realizing it, you prove the existence of God by your own questioning.

So, by asking question of whether God exists automatically means that God does exist? Is that what you mean? I don’t think so. Besides, how did you come to this conclusion? Also, how do we know if it’s your God that exists and not Zeus or Vishnu, if there’s a god or gods at all.

Quote
You demand proof. Why should He or any Evangelical Christian provide it for you.

Because you made the claim that there is a God. Do you have a problem with providing evidence? If I had a cat and you asked me to show you that I do have a cat, I would show it to you in a heartbeat. Can’t the same be said about your God?

Quote
If God healed an amputee, it would do nothing for you. It would not cause you to believe.

On the contrary, it would cause us to believe. I believe that if there’s a God and he can heal amputees, then he would be able to with no problem. Why then, if he exists, does he not do it?

Quote
We all believe in something. You believe in yourself and your own abilities to reason against God's existence.

Fascinating that you would make an assumption that you know what an atheist believes. Here’s a newsflash for you, an atheist is simply a term meaning not a theist. That is all. You can’t know a person simply because they are an atheist. I will however say that yes I do believe in myself, but more importantly, I believe in using logic and critical thinking. I would not want to delude myself into believing in impossible nonsense. I cannot do it. I cannot bring myself to believe in something that isn’t proven to be true.

Quote
The debate would benefit no-one. You only want to disprove His existence.

Wrong, we want evidence. You’re making it sound like we just want to close our ears and ignore any possible evidence. On the contrary, I for one would love to be proven wrong. If there’s evidence for the existence, we will accept it.

Quote
Belief in anything comes from within us. You are your own God. You believe in you and only in what you can see.

Wrong, that is not even remotely true. I don’t believe or accept what I see or what I want to see, I accept what is factual and has credible evidence, even if it’s something I don’t like. You’re making an assumption that a person who is an atheist is someone who would only close their eyes and see what they want to see. The thing is, that is what you do. You’re being a hypocrite in what you’re saying. I am willing to accept evidence of a God if there are any. You just hadn’t provided any evidence, but instead, you’re just making assumptions.

Quote
You have no understanding of God's Word, but yet try to disprove it.

When there’s contradictions, mistranslations, and errors in the Bible, I just have no reason to believe. Also, I don’t try to disprove the God’s word, I just don’t believe in something that can’t be proven to exist.

Quote
Human wisdom and understanding is limited. God's plan in the Bible is simple from front to back; He seeks to save that which is lost and loves very much. That is what I believe.

So you believe that your God loves us all very much, yet condemns us for not believing that he exists, causes suffering in all of us with poverty, illnesses, abuses, rape, molestations, starvations, homelessness, human trafficking, discrimination, and more all because of some “sin.” You believe in.

Quote
You want to believe in your own understanding.

Again with assuming that you know anything about us. It’s quite bothersome and ignorant. What you don’t realize is that I am trying to learn new things and understand everything I can understand. It sounded like you’re saying we’re to not to try and understand the bible or even question whether or not there’s a God. You’re saying that we are to just “trust in the lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding” as from the Bible. I’m sorry but that’s like saying, “Pay no attention to the man behind the curtains!”

Quote
That certainly is your choice and I respect it. It would be futile for me or anyone else to try and persuade you and likewise it would be so for you to try and persuade me. We all live under the same conditions making our own choices. I defend with all I have your right to believe there is no God and your right to preach it to all who will listen.

We don’t preach, that is what you do. An atheist is simpley a person who does not believe, that is all. We do not preach.

Quote
I wonder if our country and people such as yourself will defend my right to believe in a creator who loves me and sent His Son to die for me.

Well I do respect your right to believe in any God or gods you want to believe in.

Quote
You pick verses you don't like;

IRONY ALERT!

You for one pick and choose what you like and don’t like. I don’t pick verses, I don’t even care about the Bible. It’s all full of heinous stuff and very little good stuff. If we were to remove all the ugliness of the bible, we would end up with just few pages.

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nor understand in any context and try to make them out to be brutal and uncaring.

Ah, the typical, “you took it out of context” and “you just don’t understand” fallacies. Clearly, I have read the bible and I do understand what it says. Are you trying to tell me that from what I read, including the despicable stories, that it’s not what it looks like? That’s like trying to say that the Holocaust was actually a pretty camp and it’s all smiley flowers and prancing ponies. Please, it’s ugly and you can’t just sugar coat the BS.

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You lack any understanding of the covenants God has made with the Jews and the gentiles. You seek no understanding!

On the contrary, I do seek understandings. You have no realization that many of us used to believe in God and then soon lost faith because we questioned and we noticed that many things just doesn’t make any sense.

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You want to do the same as mankind has done since the fall; make God to be what you want Him to be; and when He doesn't do that you say "I refuse to believe".

Technically, that would be you, not me. I don’t make God out to be anything, just as I don’t make Adolf Hitler or Jeffery Dahmer out to be anything I want them to be. What they are is what they are. Your God, according to the Bible, is indeed a megalomaniacal, diabolical, tyrant with a mind of a 10 year old spoiled brat.

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You want God to heal amputees and you say that because He doesn't, there is no God. You challenge Christianity as a myth and spend much time and effort doing so.

I do challenge the Christianity yes, but it’s because you’ve presented nothing to convince me that your God exists. It’s not the fact that he can’t heal amputees is what made me an atheist, it’s the fact that you have not presented any shred of evidence and the bible is full of contradictions and errors.


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I ask you sir; Why?


How sexist! You do realize that there are women who are atheists too right? Or are you such a chauvinistic pig?

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What do you have to offer mankind that God has not already provided?

Knowledge. I provided knowledge, your God didn’t. Your God hadn’t provided anything because he doesn’t exist! If you think that your God has provided anything, then where’s the evidence for that? How do we know it wasn’t any of the thousands of Gods or goddesses?


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What do you have for anyone to believe in?

Nothing. But you don’t have anything to provide humanity either because all you have is a storybook and unproven claims.

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What do you have to give them when they believe as you do and refuse their eternal security in Christ? What help do you offer them when tragedies come, when loved one's die, or when we see the whole world is falling apart believing as you do.

Cry me a river why don’t you? You sound like a whining baby. Seriously, how about you stop with the, “What have you done…” crap and start proving your claims? As for families, we provide comfort and we are there for those who suffered while all you do was go, “I’ll pray for you.”


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You have spent much time and effort challenging all Christians to prove why they believe in Christ. I wish you would truly love them and share what you have to give them when they turn their back on God. I fear you have nothing to give them that can ever replace what God has done for us; the forgiveness, the peace, the joy, and rest in all that He has promised. You would rather focus on what you "feel" God has not done or proven instead of trying to experience all that He has done.

You… you… you… you. Really? You think this bullshit will shake me? Seriously? You think your Christianity has provided anything? All your faith has provided was false hope and lies. We don’t have to provide anything. This is what we have. This world we have today is what we got. But know this; your religion has brought the dark ages and death and the ugliness. We provided nothing. But know this as well; we got technologies, medical research, and all the things we’ve gotten and it’s because of these, we’ve gotten from 40 year life span with deathly illnesses with little education and medicine and high superstitious beliefs to 90 years life span with advanced technologies and medicine that cured most diseases, high amount of education we’ve gotten and more. Your religion didn’t provide that now did it?

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Your challenges mean nothing. You take great pride in the fact that none accept your challenge. A debate has never saved even one. Any true lasting and meaningful relationship takes two parties to be committed. You are only committed to yourself. It is the inherited human nature from Adam for a man to be "wise in his own eyes" and full of himself.

More stupid assumptions. So you’re saying that by trying to learn and use our brains, we’re just being conceited and self centered. Sorry, but from what you’re saying, you think we should just “trust in God and never think ever.” I rather think for myself.

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For me, I choose to be full of Christ.

That’s fine with me, I don’t care. You go on with your belief, just don’t expect me to believe your bile.

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I will do so because not only have I found the Bible to be the Truth, but I have witnessed it in my own relationship with the Father. My soul attests to the Truth of His Word. I am neither delusional nor programmed as you would espouse. You are free to believe as you wish as all of us are. God gave that right to us; to choose. Continue your challenge of God. What do you offer in place of Him? Will it satisfy all who hear it? Will it provide them any peace, any joy, or any comfort when the storms come? I say you have nothing to offer anyone who might choose to challenge God's existence.

Blah, blah, blah, blah. Do you have anything better to do? So you believe in God so strongly, good for you. Besides, you may think your religion provides anything, but if you were to pay more close attention here; a lot of us used to believe before and we no longer have any reason to believe. You’re just making inane assumptions about us and trying to make us sound like we’re some evil demons out to corrupt the world.

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God is God. He will never change just because you demand proof of Him. The proof is in the relationship with Him and you lack that. You want proof!

If the proof was in the relationship with God, then we would have already knew that. But simply having a relationship with some god isn’t proof unfortunately. Were the people of India delusional for having believed in Shiva? So what is wrong with wanting proof? Why would your God be so upset over being asked to prove his existence?

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There is only one way to find it. Give yourself to Him and all will be revealed to you. I know you will have an answer for all that I have said. I hope your answers hold up on the final day of judgment. For we all will know then for sure!              [name removed]

(Yawn)

Oooh, the judgment day. Right, I smell BS.
Me:What are you looking at Eminem?
Brother: Nothing, Harry Potter.

I love to read books, just not your Bible. i support gay rights and women's rights. Why? Because i'm tired of the hate, stupidity, and your desire to control us all and make up lies.

Offline Astreja

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Re: Why ask the question? [#2748]
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2013, 09:23:37 PM »
Quote from: Punctuation-Challenged Believer
Why, is the question man has been asking since Adam and Eve left the Garden.
You do know that the Adam and Eve story is a myth, don't you?

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God's plan in the Bible is simple from front to back; He seeks to save that which is lost and loves very much.
Except for the ones he doesn't love all that much, because they couldn't love him back or because they simply didn't believe he existed.  Apparently your god can't or won't save them.

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I wonder if our country and people such as yourself will defend my right to believe in a creator who loves me and sent His Son to die for me.
So you're okay with letting someone die in your place, are you?  Sucks to be you.

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Any true lasting and meaningful relationship takes two parties to be committed.
And since there is no evidence for your god, and since it probably is a fictional entity, your "true lasting and meaningful relationship" is not between you and a god.  It is between you and your own imagination.

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I hope your answers hold up on the final day of judgment.
Judgment Day is officially cancelled; I've replaced it with a potluck supper.  Please bring a tin of your favourite cookies.
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Re: Why ask the question? [#2748]
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2013, 09:54:26 PM »
Judgment Day is officially cancelled; I've replaced it with a potluck supper.  Please bring a tin of your favourite cookies.

Hopefully that will happen sometime in a future month of March. After I've bought Thin Mints from one of the local Girl Scouts, and before I've eaten them all.

Maybe it's just me, but a potluck sounds a lot more pleasant than being stir-fried forever by a loving god.
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Why ask the question? [#2748]
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2013, 08:52:38 AM »
Why, is the question man has been asking since Adam and Eve left the Garden.

Adam and Eve aren't real and there was no garden.  That was as far as I got in your word wall.  Besides being impossible to read, I figured if you started out with A&E, the rest wasn't going to be any better.
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Offline Aaron123

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Re: Why ask the question? [#2748]
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2013, 09:29:37 AM »
Why, is the question man has been asking since Adam and Eve left the Garden.

Actually, Adam and Eve never left the garden.  They were forced out.


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Without realizing it, you prove the existence of God by your own questioning.


Dumb logic is dumb.  I'd explain why, but I just can't motivate myself right now.


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You demand proof. Why should He or any Evangelical Christian provide it for you. If God healed an amputee, it would do nothing for you. It would not cause you to believe. We all believe in something. You believe in yourself and your own abilities to reason against God's existence. The debate would benefit no-one. You only want to disprove His existence. Belief in anything comes from within us. You are your own God. You believe in you and only in what you can see. You have no understanding of God's Word, but yet try to disprove it. 

Little more than the old "accounting for a god that does nothing"/ poisoning the well.  It's funny how you want us to believe that this god exists, then you spend a lot of time explaining why we should expect nothing from him.

That's all I feel like bothering with.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Why ask the question? [#2748]
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2013, 09:36:49 AM »
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Without realizing it, you prove the existence of God by your own questioning.


Dumb logic is dumb.  I'd explain why, but I just can't motivate myself right now.

Yeah, I want to respond to this letter myself, but I can't work up the motivation, either.  I think I can help you out with this part, though.  "I sincerely doubt that I am married to a Victoria's Secret model."  I don't think I need to explain the rest.
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Offline William

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Re: Why ask the question? [#2748]
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2013, 10:08:51 AM »
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God is God. He will never change just because you demand proof of Him.

Yet it says in Mark 17 -18: "17 And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues;  18 they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."

So I feel quite entitled to proof :police:  Where is it?  :? 

Sure I've seen people fooling around with "new tongues" but it's patently obvious they are batshit crazy or play-acting, and it's certainly not a mainstream Christian thing.  The surviving snake handlers are licking their wounds.  Surviving poison drinkers thanking the paramedics and science based ER facilities.  Non-debunked faith healers seem to going through a lull in activity while looking for a supply of less educated audiences.  All the exorcists these days seem to be Muslims  :o


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The proof is in the relationship with Him and you lack that. You want proof! There is only one way to find it. Give yourself to Him and all will be revealed to you.

I prayed my ass off before I let go.  I remember the tears rolling down my cheeks.  All I got in return was an acute awareness of the bullshit I was hearing in (various denomination) churches.  I finally fully understood why the consecrated host I'd bitten did not bleed, saw through fake miracles performed on stage before my eyes while others waved their arms in the air proclaiming to be "SAVED"  :o , asked difficult questions about random suffering in the world that were met with awkward silences or excusiology, was boo'ed at when I called a pastor out on a pathetic argument about evolution (the bits of dissembled watch shaking around in a shoe box nonsense), and was shunned by devout Christians because a relative of mine was not healed by their own group prayer. 

I was open to it and seeking, but nothing came - only evidence against.
Git mit uns

Offline Jag

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Re: Why ask the question? [#2748]
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2013, 10:55:23 AM »
I question the existence of Hogwarts.

Having proven it's existence by questioning it, can I go there and study to be a witch now? I think a flying broomstick would be a great way to reduce pollution, so I'm in favor of that as a means of transportation. Plus, you know, dragons, magic wands, talking portraits and all.
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline Nick

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Re: Why ask the question? [#2748]
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2013, 11:33:38 AM »
I'd be careful with that.  Some places are still burning and killing those accused of being a witch.  But it does sound cool.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Jag

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Re: Why ask the question? [#2748]
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2013, 01:00:46 PM »
With a magic wand, I can use spells to protect myself from people intending to do me harm. Otherwise, what's the value in being a witch?

Funny, you'd think those idiotic false-witch burners would be able to figure that out.
My tolerance for BS is limited, and I use up most of it IRL.

Offline hickdive

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Re: Why ask the question? [#2748]
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2013, 02:49:43 PM »
Why, is the question man has been asking since Adam and Eve left the Garden. Your questioning God is nothing new or unique in it's insight or even very imaginative. Without realizing it, you prove the existence of God by your own questioning. You demand proof. Why should He or any Evangelical Christian provide it for you.

Well, for one thing the question remains unanswered. I know you'd like us pesky atheist folk to just shut up but if you could provide us with an answer then we would.

For another thing, you evangelical christians want to run the world according to your beliefs. I think that means you'd better pony up with the answer or just leave folks who don't believe as you do alone. But no, you whine, complain and wheedle your way into other people's lives through unsubstantiated claims of authority leading to legal recognition in the shape of laws.

It's very simple; if you stop trying to bully everyone with your beliefs then they'll stop asking the question you cannot answer.

Stupidity, unlike intelligence, has no limits.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Why ask the question? [#2748]
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2013, 02:28:16 PM »
A see a wall of words composed of excuses. What I don't see is anything aproaching a logical argument or evidence.

Separate what you believe in from fiction first. Then build off of that. BTW....the reason you don't do such a basic thing is that there ISN'T SQUAT to separate what you are saying from utter fiction.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline kin hell

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Re: Why ask the question? [#2748]
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2013, 09:39:45 PM »
Why, is the question man has been asking since Adam and Eve left the Garden.

And your creepy god, Mr Pervy Pants has been angry ever since.

It is absolute classic sexual repression and you just refuse to admit it.
Adam and Eve were happily naked in paradise with an omniscient deity watching over them.
That "nakedness" was only discovered to be shameful and sinful once they ate of the tree of knowledge.
But your "might just have a faint chub" god knew, and created them to play forever innocent in their eternally sinful nakedness.

And knowledge stripped away their ignorance.

In truth the Adam and Eve story is just a metaphor for a paedophile's child victims growing old enough to recognise something's wrong and to say no.

Meanwhile your god of "bring your little children unto me" and "wanna see what's under my bad habit" clergy, cursed the loss of his personal petting zoo.

It hasn't stopped him watching your every moment still though

............................with a box of tissue of lies to hand for the promised second coming.








« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 09:49:47 PM by kin hell »
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all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise