Author Topic: Does God's love people in hell??????  (Read 6313 times)

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Offline WakingDeath

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #58 on: June 16, 2013, 11:12:52 PM »
Now, now...you spoke about "souls" not living people. Don't change what you said.

-Nam

Who is to say that a soul cannot be killed or otherwise eliminated. 

Offline WakingDeath

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #59 on: June 16, 2013, 11:16:16 PM »
I read what it said; is it supposed to say something else? Please tell me what it actually says?

-Nam

It says everlasting fire.  Fire burns and kills. It also says everlasting punishment. When one truly dies, there is no coming back. That would be an everlasting punishment.  It also says eternal life.   IS not everlasting and eternal essentially the same thing?  Why did the english translation use two different words there?   


Offline Nam

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #60 on: June 16, 2013, 11:25:13 PM »
Who is to say that a soul cannot be killed or otherwise eliminated. 

No one. I was just pointing out what you actually said.

It says everlasting fire.  Fire burns and kills.

How do you know it kills everything, such as souls? What's your basis of comparison? Well, you'd first have to show that fire kills everything (assumption on your part), and that souls actually exist.

Quote
It also says everlasting punishment. When one truly dies, there is no coming back.

Do you see the irony of such a statement? Probably not.

Quote
That would be an everlasting punishment.  It also says eternal life.   IS not everlasting and eternal essentially the same thing?  Why did the english translation use two different words there?   

Why are you asking me, I didn't write it?

-Nam
« Last Edit: June 16, 2013, 11:27:32 PM by Nam »
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #61 on: June 17, 2013, 03:19:57 AM »
.....there is nothing to indicate that human souls burn in hell for all eternity. Therefore there is nothing for God to love there. It is my opinion that if there is a hell, existence will come to an end for humans who are cast into it.   .

In your opinion, how long does that process take?  Not eternity, you've said, but do you believe it to be instantaneous?  If not, how long do you assume it takes?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #62 on: June 17, 2013, 08:09:39 AM »
That's why the Bible is not required reading...says the Bible.
But don't you have to read the Bible to know that?

No.  People without access to the Christian message that has been revealed to us
don't have to know it exists to trust in the Creator.  And it's not up to them anyway.
God has His chosen, and God will reveal Himself to them as He has determined it to be.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #63 on: June 17, 2013, 08:11:57 AM »
And it's not up to them anyway.
God has His chosen, and God will reveal Himself to them as He has determined it to be.

Sorry, bit confused here.  Are you saying that it doesn't matter what I do, "if I'm not on the list, I'm not coming in", as the doorman might say?  Because if that's the case, isn't any discussion rather academic?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #64 on: June 17, 2013, 08:12:19 AM »
That's why the Bible is not required reading...says the Bible.

Then you're on the wrong website. You need to be at a Christian website.

Quote
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

http://biblehub.com/romans/1-20.htm

Doesn't really work for the Universe, does it?

-Nam

There is no other life than us.  The universe is just for us to see how big God is.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #65 on: June 17, 2013, 08:29:36 AM »
There is no other life than us.  The universe is just for us to see how big God is.

That's funny.  When I say there are no gods, xians like to get all up in my shit and say, "you can't prove that!  You cannot 100% say that is so!"  Yet here you are, aggressively asserting something as fact that you cannot possibly know even within the confines of our own solar system.

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Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #66 on: June 17, 2013, 08:36:48 AM »
There is no other life than us.  The universe is just for us to see how big God is.

That's funny.  When I say there are no gods, xians like to get all up in my shit and say, "you can't prove that!  You cannot 100% say that is so!"  Yet here you are, aggressively asserting something as fact that you cannot possibly know even within the confines of our own solar system.

Sorry.  I should have said that based on all the material we have gathered, tests we have conducted, and radio emissions we have monitored for 50 years, there are no signs of life anywhere else.  If you insist, I repeat this post daily until new info comes in.

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #67 on: June 17, 2013, 08:40:46 AM »
And it's not up to them anyway.
God has His chosen, and God will reveal Himself to them as He has determined it to be.

Sorry, bit confused here.  Are you saying that it doesn't matter what I do, "if I'm not on the list, I'm not coming in", as the doorman might say?  Because if that's the case, isn't any discussion rather academic?

There are two way to approach the subject.  From the human view, God is always willing and waiting for us to trust in Him.   From the "Eternal" view, God already knows what decisions you will make in the future.   From one aspect, you have the choice to accept.  From the other, it's a done deal.   It's impossible for humans to grasp both at once.

Offline JeffPT

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #68 on: June 17, 2013, 08:43:45 AM »
There is no other life than us.  The universe is just for us to see how big God is.

That's funny.  When I say there are no gods, xians like to get all up in my shit and say, "you can't prove that!  You cannot 100% say that is so!"  Yet here you are, aggressively asserting something as fact that you cannot possibly know even within the confines of our own solar system.

Sorry.  I should have said that based on all the material we have gathered, tests we have conducted, and radio emissions we have monitored for 50 years, there are no signs of life anywhere else God.  If you insist, I repeat this post daily until new info comes in.

Fixed that for you. 
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Online Mrjason

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #69 on: June 17, 2013, 09:45:42 AM »
There is no other life than us.  The universe is just for us to see how big God is.

That's funny.  When I say there are no gods, xians like to get all up in my shit and say, "you can't prove that!  You cannot 100% say that is so!"  Yet here you are, aggressively asserting something as fact that you cannot possibly know even within the confines of our own solar system.

Sorry.  I should have said that based on all the material we have gathered, tests we have conducted, and radio emissions we have monitored for 50 years, there are no signs of life anywhere else.  If you insist, I repeat this post daily until new info comes in.

We have been looking for alien life for only 50 years and so far haven't found any evidence for it.
Humanity has been looking for evidence for the existence of god(s) for several thousands of years and still hasn't been able to come up with any evidence for it.

Offline junebug72

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #70 on: June 17, 2013, 10:19:49 AM »
you make some VERY atheistic points JB. +1
But again I have to ask you how you got this Jesus stuff without believing in the bible?

I've tried to tell you from the start that I'm different.  I don't believe the bible is God's word.  I do see historical significance there.  I believe a man named Jesus believed he was the Messiah and fulfilled his destiny.  The birth of Christianity revolves around the life of Jesus.  I believe there is something very, very special about a man willing to die for others and what he believes.  If there were no Jesus there would be no Christianity and Judaism would still be prevalent and only available to the circumcised Jew. 

Jesus was a good man, it is his followers that disgrace.  They do not follow his teachings. 

The bible is a disgrace to God.>>  I think I just came up with my next thread title.
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #71 on: June 17, 2013, 10:42:56 AM »

Who is to say that a soul cannot be killed or otherwise eliminated.

Apparently Jesus can say this:

M't:10:28: And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

I bet God gets pissed off with so-called Christians who can't be bothered to read the back-story but make it up on their own. I reckon that the Jesus/God you have accepted is one of your own imaginings. (I hope he can grant Salvation, otherwise, like we atheists, you'll have first hand evidence of whether the soul can perish.)
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Offline stuffin

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #72 on: June 17, 2013, 12:07:38 PM »
There are two way to approach the subject.  From the human view, God is always willing and waiting for us to trust in Him.   From the "Eternal" view, God already knows what decisions you will make in the future.    From one aspect, you have the choice to accept.  From the other, it's a done deal.   It's impossible for humans to grasp both at once.

Since we (humans) can't grasp it, how are you able to explain it?

Please explain to me how you are aware of the Eternal View? I would think humans wouldn't be able to understand that view.
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Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #73 on: June 17, 2013, 12:32:26 PM »
There are two way to approach the subject.  From the human view, God is always willing and waiting for us to trust in Him.   From the "Eternal" view, God already knows what decisions you will make in the future.    From one aspect, you have the choice to accept.  From the other, it's a done deal.   It's impossible for humans to grasp both at once.

Since we (humans) can't grasp it, how are you able to explain it? Please explain to me how you are aware of the Eternal View? I would think humans wouldn't be able to understand that view.

I can explain one view, then the other.  People can't multitask.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #74 on: June 17, 2013, 02:58:10 PM »
I've tried to tell you from the start that I'm different.  I don't believe the bible is God's word.  I do see historical significance there.  I believe a man named Jesus believed he was the Messiah and fulfilled his destiny.  The birth of Christianity revolves around the life of Jesus.  I believe there is something very, very special about a man willing to die for others and what he believes.  If there were no Jesus there would be no Christianity and Judaism would still be prevalent and only available to the circumcised Jew. 

Jesus was a good man, it is his followers that disgrace.  They do not follow his teachings. 

The bible is a disgrace to God.>>  I think I just came up with my next thread title.
The Gawd's point is still valid though - where did you get the idea of Jesus in the first place?  Are there sources aside from the bible that indicate that a) a preacher named Jesus existed, b) this preacher named Jesus was the Messiah (aside: where did you get the idea of a Messiah outside of the bible), and c) this preacher, named, Jesus, who was the Messiah, did die for others and what he believed?

Is it just the existence of Christianity?  Are you implying that Christianity existed first, then stole the bible and twisted it to fit the religion?  Where did the first Christians get any information regarding Jesus?

The main point is - if the bible isn't the place where you get your info on the whole god/Jesus/Messiah thing, where did you get it?

These are questions that are probably too far off from the topic to address here.  But I think they are valid questions for you to think about.
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #75 on: June 17, 2013, 03:02:40 PM »
Since we (humans) can't grasp it, how are you able to explain it? Please explain to me how you are aware of the Eternal View? I would think humans wouldn't be able to understand that view.

I can explain one view, then the other.  People can't multitask.

It's not a question of computational capability.  It's that one view explicitly contradicts the other view.  I can explain one view that smoking will kill you, and I explain another view that smoking will give you immortality.  I can't do both because the truth of one necessarily establishes the non-truth of the other.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Offline WakingDeath

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #76 on: June 17, 2013, 04:09:28 PM »
There is no other life than us.  The universe is just for us to see how big God is.

That's funny.  When I say there are no gods, xians like to get all up in my shit and say, "you can't prove that!  You cannot 100% say that is so!"  Yet here you are, aggressively asserting something as fact that you cannot possibly know even within the confines of our own solar system.

Even though I was thinking the exact same thing Screwtape, I have to say that Skywriting has made a great point.  He/she (I say he/she because the individual's gender has not been revealed to me yet) has made the same type of claim that atheists do. It's the reason this website exists.  There is no proof that there is life anywhere outside the confines of earths ecosystem, therefore there is none because there is no proof. Except for the delusional stories from individuals who say they were abducted by aliens.  Just like the assumption that there is no God, because the atheists here have declared that God is a delusional concept because there is absolutely no proof that he exists whatsoever.

Therefore the topic is moot, because since there is not God,  there is no entity to love people that exist in a non-existent Hell. Yet here you are telling SkyWriting that there is no way he/she could possibly know if there is life other than that of earths, even within our own solar system.    Well there is no way you can say that there is not God if you use that type of logic. 

My conclusion is that there is a strong possibility that the existence of both is entirely possible.  However I cannot see an all loving God allowing anybody to be tortured for all of eternity. Hell has been described as everlasting fire in this topic already. Things burn in fire. People do not survive the process.  Therefore there are no people in Hell to love. What would be the point of torturing someone forever when you can just end them.  Kill the evil, keep the good.  In my opinion, that makes more sense.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2013, 04:14:21 PM by WakingDeath »

Offline Nam

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #77 on: June 17, 2013, 04:28:25 PM »
There is no other life than us.  The universe is just for us to see how big God is.

You have no evidence for this; and if you say the Bible is your evidence: that's not evidence.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Nam

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #78 on: June 17, 2013, 04:34:00 PM »
WakingDeath,

What atheist makes the absolute fact that god doesn't exist? Very few. Now what Christian makes the absolute fact that god exists?

See the difference?

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline WakingDeath

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #79 on: June 17, 2013, 04:41:59 PM »
WakingDeath,

What atheist makes the absolute fact that god doesn't exist? Very few. Now what Christian makes the absolute fact that god exists?

See the difference?

-Nam

So they are not atheists?   They would be agnostic would they not? 

Offline Nam

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #80 on: June 17, 2013, 04:49:20 PM »
Agnostic-atheist. I myself lean Ignostic-atheist. There are levels of atheism. Strong atheists, weak atheists, and in between etc.,

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline bertatberts

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #81 on: June 17, 2013, 04:54:17 PM »
WakingDeath,

What atheist makes the absolute fact that god doesn't exist? Very few. Now what Christian makes the absolute fact that god exists?

See the difference?

-Nam

So they are not atheists?   They would be agnostic would they not?
No! They would still be atheist.
Some atheists like to say there are no god/gods with absolute certainty, but that is extremely rare, because we all know that we cant look under every nook and crannie in the universe or be in every place at the same time to verify whether a god is in fact hiding under a rock.
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Offline Astreja

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #82 on: June 17, 2013, 05:42:43 PM »
So they are not atheists?   They would be agnostic would they not?

It's possible to be both simultaneously.  Theism and atheism are positions on the subject of belief, whereas gnosticism/agnosticism are positions on the subject of knowledge.
  • If you claim to know that a god exists, the title "gnostic theist" would fit.
  • If you claim to know that no gods exist, you would be a gnostic atheist (also called a strong atheist).
  • If you believe that a god exists but accept that you don't have (and may never have) knowledge that a god is real, then that would make you an agnostic theist.
  • And if you have no belief in gods but also don't claim to know about the existence or nonexistence of gods, you'd fit into the "agnostic atheist" category.  The atheism in this case is "weak atheism" (simply not believing in gods, rather than positively asserting that they don't exist), and appears to be the most common variant of atheism.
There are also weak ("unknown") and strong ("unknowable") degrees of agnosticism.  For instance, I'm a weak atheist but a strong agnostic.  I think that it's technically impossible to determine if any given being actually is a god, even if it were to fly around in plain sight, toss lightning bolts with great abandon, and turn its enemies into grilled cheese sandwiches.  For all we know, it could be advanced technology, an illusion, or some other non-divine cause.
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #83 on: June 18, 2013, 03:09:35 AM »
There are two way to approach the subject.  From the human view, God is always willing and waiting for us to trust in Him.   From the "Eternal" view, God already knows what decisions you will make in the future.   From one aspect, you have the choice to accept.  From the other, it's a done deal.   It's impossible for humans to grasp both at once.

But what you are essentially saying is that - in the Eternal view - my choice has already been made (whether I've made it yet or will make it next year).  I cannot change what my decision will be - and if I cannot change a future decision NOW, then I could never have changed today's decision yesterday....and so on back to birth.  Which means that my decision was already set in stone, unchangeable, on the day I was born, which DOES make all this discussion moot.

The alternative is that you are telling me that your god is simultaneously aware that I do/do not choose to accept him.  Can you explain a bit further, because that doesn't seem to make any sense, even when thought about from the Eternal view alone?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline epidemic

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #84 on: June 18, 2013, 07:11:41 AM »
There is no other life than us.  The universe is just for us to see how big God is.

That's funny.  When I say there are no gods, xians like to get all up in my shit and say, "you can't prove that!  You cannot 100% say that is so!"  Yet here you are, aggressively asserting something as fact that you cannot possibly know even within the confines of our own solar system.



What do you think the odds are that we are able to receive a radio broadcast from the next solar system.  How many watts do aliens transmitt?  What signal level would you expect us to receive.   Can we actually even hear a 100, 1000, or 100,000 watt transmission from our nearest extra solar neighbor? 

Our communications with voyager from earth to voyager 1 and 2 are broadcast at relatively strong singnal strengths.  What is the first star that those bursty communications line up with that beams path.

SETI is really cool but it is really looking for a needle in the ocean.  Go ahead find me a specific needle dropped in the ocean from an unknown sailor at an unknown date since ocean were first sailed.

What communications scheme and technology do aliens use?  did their technology develop around pass our own before we started listening.  Are they using "radio" or did then settle on infrared lazer communications or subspace temporal communications.

SETI has not proven a thing beyond the fact that we have not been able to record alien conversations either because they don't exist, or because we have not looked for them right, or because since we have been looking we simply have not progressed far enough to pull these signals from the noise floor.

with our technology we can possibly look out 500 light years for signals of similar caliber to our own transmissions.  But these very large antenna arrays are highly directional and we look for relatively short times at any point in space.  Were they transmitting 500 years ago during the time we pass the array over that dot in space.

If we did hear a signal from or galaxy or other galaxy we would be winning a lottery far more statistically improbable than the powerball.  don't get me wrong I would love to see it happen but the odds are long to put it mildly.

Sorry.  I should have said that based on all the material we have gathered, tests we have conducted, and radio emissions we have monitored for 50 years, there are no signs of life anywhere else.  If you insist, I repeat this post daily until new info comes in.

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #85 on: June 18, 2013, 07:16:52 AM »
SETI is really cool but it is really looking for a needle in the ocean.

Yes, you're right, but to extend the analogy:  It's a needle that we have increasingly good reasons to think is actually there.  The more we learn about the universe, the more it appears that the Principle of Mediocrity is the correct view.  Not only that, but out of the entire ocean, the amount that we've been able to examine to any reasonable degree doesn't even amount to one teaspoon of water.

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Offline Nam

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Re: Does God's love people in hell??????
« Reply #86 on: June 18, 2013, 07:26:41 AM »
I wonder what the response from Christians like SkyWriting would be if it was shown some type of life existed on another planet?

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.