Author Topic: 51st State?  (Read 1277 times)

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Offline Nick

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51st State?
« on: June 08, 2013, 09:34:50 AM »
People in Northern Colorado are upset that Colorado is controlled mostly by a democratic state congress and want to break away to form their own state of North Colorado.  See, we have gotten to the point where if one party wins the other side is going to take the ball and go home.  That is why for 5 years in Washington DC nothing has gotten done.  We use to have each party rule and we all did just fine.  Now it seems like open warfare even to the point of doing stuff against your own interests.  Mark Rubio is about to vote against the immigration bill he put together.  How nuts is that?
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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2013, 12:06:09 PM »
I'm not sure what to make of this new infatuation with secession that some US politicians seem to have. It's so crazy that I'm inclined to see it as grandstanding, but given how irrational people can be...

Is it possible some of these neo-Confederate morons actually think they can start and win a civil war?
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Offline jetson

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2013, 12:31:25 PM »
I'm not sure what to make of this new infatuation with secession that some US politicians seem to have. It's so crazy that I'm inclined to see it as grandstanding, but given how irrational people can be...

Is it possible some of these neo-Confederate morons actually think they can start and win a civil war?

Of course they can win...they have God and guns...what else could they possibly need?   ;D

Online wright

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2013, 01:28:24 PM »
Of course they can win...they have God and guns...what else could they possibly need?   ;D

I can't help thinking of what civil war in the present-day US would be like though... If a significant fraction of the armed forces sided with the secessionists, or at least stayed neutral and out of the fight (either way, violating their oaths of service), it would be absolutely horrendous.

Warfare is even more dependent on infrastructure now than in the past, both for supporting troops and their equipment and denying said infrastructure to the enemy. And in the US, so much of it is in heavily-populated urban areas...

For the record, I don't think this is at all likely. I think it's almost certainly political posturing for the sake of appealing to reactionary constituencies like the Teabaggers. I just wish the panderers who spout such corrosive sewage would acknowledge what making their fantasies come true would entail.
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Offline stuffin

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2013, 02:46:25 PM »
If any of these yahoos succeed in seceding, I would like to see what kind of government they would have. I'm certain there would be many freedoms and gimme(s) taken away.

1st Amendment: You must carry a bible with you at all times.

2nd Amendment: You must carry a gun (preferably in your bible) at all times.
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Offline Willie

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2013, 03:02:16 PM »
I'm not sure what to make of this new infatuation with secession that some US politicians seem to have. It's so crazy that I'm inclined to see it as grandstanding, but given how irrational people can be...

Is it possible some of these neo-Confederate morons actually think they can start and win a civil war?

It's not all that new. We saw the same in the 90's when Bill Clinton was President. Remember all that "militia" crap from back then?

Offline Willie

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2013, 03:05:47 PM »
If any of these yahoos succeed in seceding, I would like to see what kind of government they would have. I'm certain there would be many freedoms and gimme(s) taken away.

1st Amendment: You must carry a bible with you at all times.

2nd Amendment: You must carry a gun (preferably in your bible) at all times.

I don't know if that's what all secessionists want, but it's true for at least some of them. The Republic of Texas secessionists ended up splitting into three separate groups due to disagreements. But one thing that all three had in common is that they were all bent on building a Bible-based theocracy.

Offline rev45

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2013, 03:15:13 PM »
Of course they can win...they have God and guns...what else could they possibly need?   ;D
I would think that if they really believe they wouldn't need the guns.

I think most states have issues within itself that are based around republican vs democrat, rural vs city, Baptist vs Southern Baptist and so on.  Here in central Illinois you'll hear people talk about wanting Chicago to be its own state.  I think a few times we've even had state representatives call for it to happen.  And I'm sure there are those in Chicago that would love to be rid of the rest of us down here.  I'm not sure of the numbers but I'm willing to be parts south of Chicago see tax money that comes from there that the state collects and spreads around.  Kick Chicago out and I think you would see you're local government budgets tightened.  These us vs them arguments that I've seen in state politics seem more like kids calling each other doodie heads.
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2013, 04:26:12 PM »
These us vs them arguments that I've seen in state politics seem more like kids calling each other doodie heads.

When little kids call each other "doodie heads", their immaturity is showing. When legislators do it, that is about as mature as they can get.  ;D

I have long contended that the reason we won't have a revolution in this country is because folks don't want to miss NASCAR races, ball games, Star Wars movies and/or reality TV shows. And they realize that if they start shooting over anything besides not getting sex when they've paid for it (at least in Texas) then they are endangering their "me" time, which they consider quite important.

As long as no one person has enough bullets to kill all of his or her enemies, each will have to team up with others like them to get the job done. And once the people in that group realize that they don't agree with each other about everything, they have to start thinking twice about who and what is going to get shot for why. And since they aren't any good at even thinking once, it all just gets too hard and they return to watching Dale Earnhardt and Jeff Gordon and call it a day.

Lets hope the trend continues. I don't mind being shot by a band of zealots, but they damned well better not be wishy-washy zealots.
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Offline HAL

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2013, 05:12:07 PM »
People in Northern Colorado are upset that Colorado is controlled mostly by a democratic state congress and want to break away to form their own state of North Colorado.

How is that done legally? I mean they aren't breaking away from the union. Is there a process for doing that?

Online mrbiscoop

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2013, 06:48:08 PM »
I live just outside Boulder, CO and haven't heard anything about this. Anyone have a link?
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Offline Nick

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2013, 07:04:23 PM »
I live just outside Boulder, CO and haven't heard anything about this. Anyone have a link?
I saw it earlier today on a yahoo news clip.

They probably don't want you to know about it before the attempted takeover.  Good luck.  Try to have at least 72 hrs of supplies on hand.
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Online mrbiscoop

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2013, 09:47:28 PM »
   I didn't make the original post and it is not on me to track down the link but thanks anyway.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2013, 09:50:20 PM by mrbiscoop »
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Offline jetson

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #15 on: June 09, 2013, 09:23:28 AM »
   I didn't make the original post and it is not on me to track down the link but thanks anyway.

Hey, it's Nick...link?  What's a link?

 ;D

Online jaimehlers

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #16 on: June 09, 2013, 12:30:30 PM »
In all seriousness, there is precedent for part of a state seceding from the rest of the state.  I don't think it would cause a civil war, since they would (presumably) stay within the United States instead of trying to pull off to form their own country.

Online mrbiscoop

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #17 on: June 09, 2013, 04:43:14 PM »
   I didn't make the original post and it is not on me to track down the link but thanks anyway.

Hey, it's Nick...link?  What's a link?

 ;D

Hey, it was "no link" Nick wasn't it?
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Offline Irish

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #18 on: June 09, 2013, 11:23:51 PM »
I saw this thread and it reminded me of a show (How the States Got Their Shapes) I watched on the History Channel(?).  One particular show had a section about the 51st state located in Northern California/Southern Oregon.  I did a quick Google search and found it.  The "state" is called Jefferson by the proponents of it's creation.

http://www.jeffersonstate.com/
Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)Wiki
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Offline Graybeard

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2013, 07:48:24 PM »
Here in the UK, the Scots[1] want independence. The Kurds want independence, The Sikhs and the Tibetans want independence, every man and his dog wants independence.

People want independence when times are subjectively hard[2]. The idiocy of this is that the time to go for independence is when everyone is sufficiently prosperous and everyone is feeling happy - it's times like that you stand a better chance of getting your way. But, of course, at times like that, you're not really bothered where you are or who's in charge.

When times get hard[3] that's the time to stick together.

 1. <rant>well, the lunatic fringe of rabid nationalism led by Alex Salmond who wants to join with Norway and the Norwegians, sensibly, don't want him</rant>
 2. they may also be objectively hard, but that doesn't much matter, if it is objectively hard, it is also subjectively hard
 3. cue "Bridge over Troubled Waters"
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Online mrbiscoop

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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2013, 08:29:41 PM »
  Tribal mentality, pure and simple.
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Re: 51st State?
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2013, 10:00:31 PM »
I once found a website years ago that tried to get a group of people together (racists) to breed out North Carolina of non-whites and Liberals. It was funny because they were serious.

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