Author Topic: Is America Cursed?  (Read 11967 times)

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #145 on: May 31, 2013, 05:55:14 AM »
Quote from: junebug72
All you got is your false accusations, I have my kindness and that deserves respect. 

Being passive aggressive is your idea of kindness?

How did you come to that conclusion?  I am not aggressive unless provoked.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline The Gawd

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #146 on: May 31, 2013, 07:13:34 AM »
So may you answer this JB, I have asked it once before.

But I will make it larger and bolder as to not be missed.

SINCE YOU RECOGNIZE THAT WEATHER HAS NATURAL CAUSES ON OTHER PLANETS WHY WOULD YOU THINK WEATHER HAS A DIFFERENT CAUSE ON EARTH?

Offline Jag

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #147 on: May 31, 2013, 09:46:40 AM »
Once again, I think I'm catching on.

jb, I'm going to restate your premise to see if I've figured out what you mean - please correct me if I get it wrong:

Is America experiencing a backlash of negative things because of the harm we have done to others throughout our countries history? Something of a karmic scale balancing act? What goes around, comes around?

Is that what you are saying, more or less?

Really Jag I just asked a question.  I wanted to know what evangelicals thought on the subject.  Go figure I'm not getting anybody but MM on this atheist website.  Just so you know, I've tried a couple of Christian forums and they don't let you say anything hardly.  Especially about their stand against gays.  So let's say this, for religious folks let's go with cursed and for you atheist let's go with your question.

I should let you write my OT you get my point across better than i do.  I have this 1 style of writing and it doesn't work well here.  I could have GB's attitude and accept it or I can try harder until I get it right.  I have been on my own with my beliefs for so long.  That's why it seems like a fantasy to you all, it kind of is.  I did not want my thoughts clouded by what other people thought.  See story telling is the only way I know to get my point across.  I don't do it to drive you crazy or anything.

Back on subject. I do want to know if any religious members thinks America is cursed. I don't think God is punishing America.  I do think America brings some things upon itself but not tornados, although it is possible that pollution/global warming is making them more intense.

I included this entire block because a) I don't believe I ever responded to it and b) WWGHA - we might be able to get this back on track by paying attention to the words jb bolded in her reply to me.

So jb, apologies for dropping out of this thread - it was starting to get out of hand and I stopped participating. I think the bolded sentence may have been missed by everyone, or perhaps it just got buried in other Q&A's.

Stepping away from the weather and focusing on the rest of your post, that's a conversation I'd be interested in having. How much of America's current problems are the result of America's previous choices, and which ones should we discuss? I would suggest a different thread if anyone wants to talk about it though, and to narrow the scope of the topic to at most, a few specific issues - one at a time might be better. Climate change, economics, education, any number of things could be considered - I would suggest avoiding anything based on emotions and stick to actions/decisions/things that can be changed by making other choices or policy changes (government action is not always the best solution). Anything you might have been thinking of here "I do think America brings some things upon itself" (and for the record, I do too) could work as well. 

Regardless of anyone else's opinion at this point, I want to say that I'm impressed that you are sticking around and trying to get your ideas across. I haven't asked for posting access in the Shelter but I've been reading your posts there as well. I realize that there's been a lot of frustration on both sides, and I'm finding some respect for your determination to make yourself understood. This is what I asked for and you're doing your damnedest to meet me halfway - I can do the same.
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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #148 on: May 31, 2013, 10:22:26 AM »
actually we are kinda blessed.

Life is not exactly perfect,  horrible things seem to happen but when compared on a whole to the 7 billion people living on earth.  Our 300,000,000 people lead a super life statistically speaking.

Our poor need a new terminology to describe their lot in life.   Food insecure, when starvation, and malnutrition are not obvious we come up with occasionally we miss a meal.   

However for a huge portion of the population there are real problems, real food insecurity like now knowing if you can feed your kid resulting in them dying.  Or Having to choose which child will survive.   Women being raped, and murdered in the public square.

bombs dropping, perpetual civil wars,  malaria.

Our poor worry about being able to afford next weeks rent or if they will have to move back in with mom or into a public shelter.

The vast majority of our population worry if they will be able to afford college for their kids or whether the kids will have to take a government loan.


on measure America is charmed at this moment in time.


PS I use the blessed and charmed terminologies in the least magical way possible.




however assuming that there is a magical solution can you please tell me why would god curse a country, a region, and a group of people who had nothing to do with the attrocities you mentioned.    I am sure that people of tornado ally are no less godless than those in NYC.  I wager that the peoples houses sucked up were not all atheists. 

Why would god curse a region of people who never killed an indian, or had a slave in their house or their grandmothers, or their grandmothers grandmothers house. 
« Last Edit: May 31, 2013, 10:30:53 AM by epidemic »

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #149 on: May 31, 2013, 10:39:48 AM »
I think it is the fact that for the past 50 years, America was the world leader in so many areas. We thought it was because we were so smart and so great, when it was mainly having survived WWI and II without being bombed flat like the rest of the world. Everyone wanted to come here,  and the world let us have a free pass with our ignorance and arrogance. That was the charmed period, when everyone thought that it would be like that forever, with increasing prosperity and security for all. Truth, justice and the American way all the way down.

Now, we are having to compete with the rest of the world because they have started to catch up. China and India will swamp us, because they have more smart, hardworking and ambitious people than we do. It's just the numbers. And the rest of the world is now competing for the resources (oil, water, minerals, land to grow food, cheap labor) that we thought we would be able to control forever. We can only push countries around militarily for so long. Other countries have nuclear bombs and sh!t too.

Africa, the Middle East and Latin America don't have to give us their goodies cheaply anymore, if China or Russia is making them a better offer. We in the US have to recognize the new global reality. Unfortunately, instead of realizing that everyone in the US needs a basic safety net, like universal health care and decent education, so we can survive and compete, we are still acting like we will all become millionaires if we just work hard enough. :P &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Online jdawg70

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #150 on: May 31, 2013, 11:07:45 AM »

I would also like to add that there is no shame in asking for clarity from a poster.

How would you define 'respect' or 'respectful behavior'?

Jdawg there is a respectful way to ask for clarity.  For that question to make sense there must be an answer that needs clarifying.  Saying I have dodged or not answered is going to get a different response such as; I did answer your question.  Oh, but that doesn't attack the character of the person does it?

I define respect as common decency.  The wiki def. is more about earned respect.  Maybe I'm confusing respect with kindness, but when I treat a homeless person with kindness I'm attempting to show them respect. 

I think that's why the ad hominem style that some people here are using, unmoderated and by mods, is not a good way to debate.  It is very disrespectful and more important than that it is unkind.
Agreed - there are certainly respectful ways to ask for clarity.  I think being accused of not answering a question or dodging a question isn't disrespectful though.  I really don't.  If you are asked a question and your response doesn't appear to address the question, then it is of the utmost respect to make that known in hopes of resolving that discrepancy.  That discrepancy can exist either by the responder failing to actually address the question or the poster failing to recognize the response, but unless it's made known in some form or fashion then the dialog cannot proceed.  The best approach to responding to an accusation of dodging is to further explain how your response actually addressed the question at hand.

Common decency is, simply put, insufficient for respect.  I would contend that it is a necessary component, but simply being decent isn't necessarily being respectful.  If you asked me to explain the behavior of an all-pass gain circuit, and I, very nicely and decently, go on to explain how a sigma delta ADC worked, well I may have been very nice about it but I've be exceptionally disrespectful towards you because I basically ignored what you wanted.  Doesn't matter how bloody nice I was about it.

This is the best example I can come up with for 'nice yet disrespectful' behavior: think of how you treat a 6-year old child.  You'd probably say that, in general, you treat that 6-year old child nicely.  Now try treating a 37-year adult in the exact same way.  You may be very nice, but it would be very disrespectful to treat a 37-year old like a 6-year old.

I think a fundamental disconnect exists in expectations here.  What I don't think you're picking up on is that responding to a question and answering or addressing that question are not necessarily the same thing.  Your constant assumption that people are just levying false accusations and not engaging in genuine, honest inquiry is, frankly, disrespectful.

In the 'Believing in god is not a bad thing' thread, I at one point recommended (in a harsher tone) that you find others around you to evaluate how you behaved in that thread.  I still stand by that recommendation - I don't think anyone around here needs to know of any results or anything from that, as it is something for your own edification, but I think it would be a good idea (please note I am not necessarily saying it is an easy idea).  Take that advice as you will.
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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #151 on: May 31, 2013, 11:16:33 AM »
Just another thought.   if god is responsible for cursing the people/countries/regions.   Then it would appear as if it were not those who your would expect.

The poor seem to be the most cursed.  The indians appear to have had some serious problem with god because he let the whiteman come in and wipe them out.  Africans must have been intrinsically evil because they were enslaved for centuries.  Generation after generation of blacks were raised as slaves used as farm equipment and love toys and died while slaves.

10's Millions of dead indians, 10's of millions of black slaves, and as punishment for these crimes white folks have an occasional storm that knocks down their insurred houses and kill a few dozen people.   Seems fair.


God may be real or not,   but a thunderstorm and a few thousand homes being knocked down is hardly evidence of a curse.  If it is a curse then it is a pretty lame one.  Now send some zombies and or kill thousands of people with no evidence of foul play then I go for curse maybe.

Offline Jag

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #152 on: May 31, 2013, 05:43:53 PM »
actually we are kinda blessed.
Agreed.

Quote
Life is not exactly perfect,  horrible things seem to happen but when compared on a whole to the 7 billion people living on earth.  Our 300,000,000 people lead a super life statistically speaking.
<snip>

on measure America is charmed at this moment in time.

I don't dispute any of what you said, but that's not the conversation I was proposing. We can certainly have this one as well, but it should also be in a separate topic.

Quote
PS I use the blessed and charmed terminologies in the least magical way possible.

That made me chuckle  :)

"It's hard to, but I'm starting to believe some of you actually believe these things.  That is completely beyond my ability to understand if that is really the case, but things never cease to amaze me."

Offline The Gawd

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #153 on: May 31, 2013, 07:36:36 PM »
some people call it "blessed"

I call it the best business model ever known... stolen land from the indigenous people and free labor on the backs of unpaid slaves. No matter how hard americans try you cant untie this "blessing" from those deplorable acts. Call it blessed if you want, I call it a curse lol.

imagine if I was starting a restaurant and I didnt have to pay for materials or pay my workers, think I would have an advantage over the next guy with bottom lines to meet because they have bills to pay?

Offline DumpsterFire

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #154 on: June 01, 2013, 01:18:45 AM »
I think the real question here should be why the heck is anyone still stupid enough to live in Moore, OK? The place has been hit by severe tornadoes 5 times since 1998, 2 of which were deadly. If there actually was a curse in effect, then Moore must be perpetrating some sinning not seen since the days of Sodom and Gomorrah[1]. There must be a freaky, Zed-buggering-Marcellus Wallace-type sex dungeon in the basement of every home in town or something.
 1. Poor second fiddle Gomorrah. Nobody ever talks about them without first mentioning Sodom. Worse still, they didn't even get any unnatural sex acts named after them.
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Offline DumpsterFire

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #155 on: June 01, 2013, 01:23:54 AM »
^she applauded an obvious insult. She has no reading comprehension.

-Nam

I applauded your insult of A's post being so long.  My reading comprehension is just fine.   I was being nice to you, you should try it sometime it feels good.

I wasn't insulting his post; I was being facetious to insult you. Again: no reading comprehension.

-Nam

FYI, I also thought you were admonishing Anf to be more concise, so perhaps your insult wasn't as obvious as you intended.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #156 on: June 01, 2013, 06:35:07 AM »
So may you answer this JB, I have asked it once before.

But I will make it larger and bolder as to not be missed.

SINCE YOU RECOGNIZE THAT WEATHER HAS NATURAL CAUSES ON OTHER PLANETS WHY WOULD YOU THINK WEATHER HAS A DIFFERENT CAUSE ON EARTH?

I wish you would listen Gawd.  I don't believe God is cursing any country on this planet.  Ask a question that makes some sense please.  I'm on your side.

To make this conversation interesting I will say that if there was a difference it would be the human factor. Don't you think that people that believe in curses do so because of human behaviour?  Wasn't it Pat Robertson that said the deadly tornado was punishment for a gay BB player?  There are no gay BB players on Jupiter.  There are no murderers, perverts, or cruelty of any kind.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #157 on: June 01, 2013, 06:55:16 AM »

I included this entire block because a) I don't believe I ever responded to it and b) WWGHA - we might be able to get this back on track by paying attention to the words jb bolded in her reply to me.

So jb, apologies for dropping out of this thread - it was starting to get out of hand and I stopped participating. I think the bolded sentence may have been missed by everyone, or perhaps it just got buried in other Q&A's.

Stepping away from the weather and focusing on the rest of your post, that's a conversation I'd be interested in having. How much of America's current problems are the result of America's previous choices, and which ones should we discuss? I would suggest a different thread if anyone wants to talk about it though, and to narrow the scope of the topic to at most, a few specific issues - one at a time might be better. Climate change, economics, education, any number of things could be considered - I would suggest avoiding anything based on emotions and stick to actions/decisions/things that can be changed by making other choices or policy changes (government action is not always the best solution). Anything you might have been thinking of here "I do think America brings some things upon itself" (and for the record, I do too) could work as well. 

Regardless of anyone else's opinion at this point, I want to say that I'm impressed that you are sticking around and trying to get your ideas across. I haven't asked for posting access in the Shelter but I've been reading your posts there as well. I realize that there's been a lot of frustration on both sides, and I'm finding some respect for your determination to make yourself understood. This is what I asked for and you're doing your damnedest to meet me halfway - I can do the same.

Thanks Jag. 

I wish you would start a new thread.  This one did get out of hand.  I tried to stay calm. My apologies for the unpleasantness of it all. This is my first time ever doing anything like this.  I am a rookie.  The last thing I want to do is make enemies here or develope a bad impression of my belief.  That is very important to me.  I think we have all seen and heard enough of bad beliefs.

It's hard to discuss the consequences of pollution w/o discussing the weather.  The most dangerous effect of pollution is global warming is it not?  My question was, could that be causing more intense, violent tornados and hurricanes.  I pay attention when global warming is being discussed and I believe it is a valid concern. 
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
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Offline junebug72

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #158 on: June 01, 2013, 07:40:40 AM »
Our poor worry about being able to afford next weeks rent or if they will have to move back in with mom or into a public shelter.

Don't forget healthcare.
 
however assuming that there is a magical solution can you please tell me why would god curse a country, a region, and a group of people who had nothing to do with the attrocities you mentioned.    I am sure that people of tornado ally are no less godless than those in NYC.  I wager that the peoples houses sucked up were not all atheists. 

Why would god curse a region of people who never killed an indian, or had a slave in their house or their grandmothers, or their grandmothers grandmothers house.

Good point epidemic.  Good point.



I agree our country is in better shape than others but why settle for mediocracy when you could achieve true greatness.  My son said something the other day that made some sense.  He said I wouldn't mind being poor if everybody was.  It is the gap between the wealthy and the poor that is not necessary.  This is not the best we can do.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline The Gawd

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #159 on: June 01, 2013, 07:52:28 AM »
I wish you would listen Gawd.  I don't believe God is cursing any country on this planet.  Ask a question that makes some sense please.  I'm on your side.

To make this conversation interesting I will say that if there was a difference it would be the human factor. Don't you think that people that believe in curses do so because of human behaviour?  Wasn't it Pat Robertson that said the deadly tornado was punishment for a gay BB player?  There are no gay BB players on Jupiter.  There are no murderers, perverts, or cruelty of any kind.

Well, as others have pointed out, you suggested in the initial post that this weather is perhaps a curse due to what america did to the indigenous people and africans. If you dont think your god is cursing the US, then your initial post makes no sense. Why even mention the indigenous people and slavery since you dont think it had anything to with the tornado? Especially since you said it got you to thinking maybe america is cursed. Also then you clarify for Jag that it could be any god doing the cursing. Then on page two you seem to switch the tune to perhaps its a self curse which requires you (as has been pointed out) to bend the definition of "curse" and you also start to try to veer towards pollution related weather patterns. Then we veered to some karma discussion, which again would make me ask the cause of extreme weather on other planets.

See my participation in the thread is limited because I dont necessarily like long drawn out conversations and such, I generally have a point, address the point, and be done with it. So when you insinuated the tornado may be a curse from god the obvious question for me was why then do lifeless planets have natural disasters? You answered that question somewhat correctly. So the only other natural question was why suggest anything other than the answer you gave for my previous question....and all of a sudden my question doesnt make sense?

spare me.

Offline The Gawd

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #160 on: June 01, 2013, 07:56:02 AM »
<snip>
however assuming that there is a magical solution can you please tell me why would god curse a country, a region, and a group of people who had nothing to do with the attrocities you mentioned.    I am sure that people of tornado ally are no less godless than those in NYC.  I wager that the peoples houses sucked up were not all atheists. 

Why would god curse a region of people who never killed an indian, or had a slave in their house or their grandmothers, or their grandmothers grandmothers house. <snip>
In his autobiography, the bible, yahweh says he will punish the children for the sins of the father. generation after generation.
Even states that bastard children wont make it to heaven...

good ol yahweh, always just!

Offline junebug72

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #161 on: June 01, 2013, 08:09:31 AM »
Agreed - there are certainly respectful ways to ask for clarity.  I think being accused of not answering a question or dodging a question isn't disrespectful though.  I really don't.  If you are asked a question and your response doesn't appear to address the question, then it is of the utmost respect to make that known in hopes of resolving that discrepancy.  That discrepancy can exist either by the responder failing to actually address the question or the poster failing to recognize the response, but unless it's made known in some form or fashion then the dialog cannot proceed.  The best approach to responding to an accusation of dodging is to further explain how your response actually addressed the question at hand.

Point given and received.

Common decency is, simply put, insufficient for respect.  I would contend that it is a necessary component, but simply being decent isn't necessarily being respectful.  If you asked me to explain the behavior of an all-pass gain circuit, and I, very nicely and decently, go on to explain how a sigma delta ADC worked, well I may have been very nice about it but I've be exceptionally disrespectful towards you because I basically ignored what you wanted.  Doesn't matter how bloody nice I was about it.

This is the best example I can come up with for 'nice yet disrespectful' behavior: think of how you treat a 6-year old child.  You'd probably say that, in general, you treat that 6-year old child nicely.  Now try treating a 37-year adult in the exact same way.  You may be very nice, but it would be very disrespectful to treat a 37-year old like a 6-year old.

Okay.


I think a fundamental disconnect exists in expectations here.  What I don't think you're picking up on is that responding to a question and answering or addressing that question are not necessarily the same thing.  Your constant assumption that people are just levying false accusations and not engaging in genuine, honest inquiry is, frankly, disrespectful.

In the 'Believing in god is not a bad thing' thread, I at one point recommended (in a harsher tone) that you find others around you to evaluate how you behaved in that thread.  I still stand by that recommendation - I don't think anyone around here needs to know of any results or anything from that, as it is something for your own edification, but I think it would be a good idea (please note I am not necessarily saying it is an easy idea).  Take that advice as you will.

There have been some like Jag with an honest attempt for clarity.  For others not the case.  I'm not going to debate this any further.  I know the difference between meanness and kindness.  I know when I'm being insulted.  Perhaps if question dodging was the only insult I had to deal with I wouldn't make such a big deal, but it's not.  The first time I was accused of dodging by star stuff she found 1 question out of many that was not answered.  If I have answered all but 1 out of many how is that dodging not simply just overlooked?  If there was empathy involved a person would understand that I had my hands full, but that doesn't attack my character does it?  There was more of that going on in that thread that good valid points on belief being a bad thing from the atheist members that participated on that thread.  I'm over it now.  You will never ever ever convince me that I was treated with much kindness on that thread, this thread, or any thread by certain members here.




Well, as others have pointed out, you suggested in the initial post that this weather is perhaps a curse due to what america did to the indigenous people and africans. If you dont think your god is cursing the US, then your initial post makes no sense. Why even mention the indigenous people and slavery since you dont think it had anything to with the tornado? Especially since you said it got you to thinking maybe america is cursed. Also then you clarify for Jag that it could be any god doing the cursing. Then on page two you seem to switch the tune to perhaps its a self curse which requires you (as has been pointed out) to bend the definition of "curse" and you also start to try to veer towards pollution related weather patterns. Then we veered to some karma discussion, which again would make me ask the cause of extreme weather on other planets.

See my participation in the thread is limited because I dont necessarily like long drawn out conversations and such, I generally have a point, address the point, and be done with it. So when you insinuated the tornado may be a curse from god the obvious question for me was why then do lifeless planets have natural disasters? You answered that question somewhat correctly. So the only other natural question was why suggest anything other than the answer you gave for my previous question....and all of a sudden my question doesnt make sense?

spare me.

There have been many posts since then where I have made my lack of belief in curses more clear.  Why ignore those?
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline The Gawd

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #162 on: June 01, 2013, 08:20:41 AM »
There have been many posts since then where I have made my lack of belief in curses more clear.  Why ignore those?
I cannot always read every post in a thread, especially when they veer off in different directions. However, if you have a lack of belief in curses then your initial post and early follow ups make no sense and I would be correct to question them using the line of questioning that I did. If by participating in the thread, you altered your opinion/beliefs/views, then that is a step in the right direction.

Offline junebug72

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #163 on: June 01, 2013, 08:22:22 AM »
I think the real question here should be why the heck is anyone still stupid enough to live in Moore, OK? The place has been hit by severe tornadoes 5 times since 1998, 2 of which were deadly. If there actually was a curse in effect, then Moore must be perpetrating some sinning not seen since the days of Sodom and Gomorrah[1]. There must be a freaky, Zed-buggering-Marcellus Wallace-type sex dungeon in the basement of every home in town or something.
 1. Poor second fiddle Gomorrah. Nobody ever talks about them without first mentioning Sodom. Worse still, they didn't even get any unnatural sex acts named after them.

When I got home last night my honey says OK is getting hit again.  I said are we going to have to close Oklahoma?  What about Florida and it's hurricanes?  There aren't a whole lot of places where we could all live w/o any natural disasters.  I live in WNC and the climate here is mostly very nice.  We had a blizzard in 1993. It took 14 lives.   It's not that easy to pack up your family and start anew especially in this economy.  Especially if you can't sell your house because nobody wants to move to Moore, OK.



gonorrhea is close :laugh:
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #164 on: June 01, 2013, 08:25:48 AM »
There have been many posts since then where I have made my lack of belief in curses more clear.  Why ignore those?
I cannot always read every post in a thread, especially when they veer off in different directions. However, if you have a lack of belief in curses then your initial post and early follow ups make no sense and I would be correct to question them using the line of questioning that I did. If by participating in the thread, you altered your opinion/beliefs/views, then that is a step in the right direction.

It was in bold so you could easily see it.  I even posted 1 that was specifically for clarification.  I do however, understand your confusion and I apologize for not being more clear in my original post.  I am a rookie after all.  No excuses though.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline junebug72

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #165 on: June 01, 2013, 08:29:32 AM »

In his autobiography, the bible, yahweh says he will punish the children for the sins of the father. generation after generation.
Even states that bastard children wont make it to heaven...

good ol yahweh, always just!

Don't believe the bible is God's autobiography but very good point.
Belief in a cruel God makes a cruel man.
Thomas Paine

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Offline The Gawd

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #166 on: June 01, 2013, 08:56:23 AM »
Don't believe the bible is God's autobiography but very good point.

I dont believe god exists, but either way the bible is certainly yahweh's autobiography. and there are billions of people who also believe it. Where else can you learn about this character, yahweh? Why should I accept your disbelief in yahweh's proclaimed autobiography as opposed to the other billions who disagree with you?

Online jaimehlers

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #167 on: June 01, 2013, 11:47:22 AM »
Should we call earthquakes in California curses?  Should we call hurricanes along the East Coast curses?

The point, junebug, is that while these things (earthquakes, hurricanes, and tornadoes) are unpleasant for the people who live there, they're not curses.  They're part and parcel of living in that area.  It's a statistical certainty that tornadoes will hit the Great Plains, earthquakes will hit California, and hurricanes will hit the East Coast.

Honestly, most of the weather extremes (tornadoes, hurricanes, deluges, heavy snow out of season, etc) we've been seeing are probably something that humans are bringing upon themselves, out of greed and stupidity.  Global climate change (caused at least in part by human activities, such as the rampant burning of fossil fuels) causes more extreme weather than normal.

Offline Jag

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #168 on: June 01, 2013, 01:45:52 PM »

Thanks Jag. 

I wish you would start a new thread

PM me and let's work out what the topic should be. I probably won't have time to do much today - busy with yard work and a bonfire this evening - but we should be able to get a good first post together by the end of the weekend on whatever you want to talk about. I'm happy to help get a topic started that opens with exactly what you want to talk through and to help keep it narrow and focused enough to start a discussion. No way to predict what direction it will veer off into, but we can get a good opening going and see what comes of it.
"It's hard to, but I'm starting to believe some of you actually believe these things.  That is completely beyond my ability to understand if that is really the case, but things never cease to amaze me."

Offline Jag

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #169 on: June 01, 2013, 01:50:29 PM »
Another option is that I could ask for posting permission to The Shelter and maybe we could do it in there? I'm not sure what is required for access, so I'm not sure if I can have it or not - it's automatic for theists. It tends to be a little less overwhelming in that area and it's likely that fewer responses will pop up while you're offline.

I'll wait for you to respond before doing anything about that.
"It's hard to, but I'm starting to believe some of you actually believe these things.  That is completely beyond my ability to understand if that is really the case, but things never cease to amaze me."

Offline The Gawd

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #170 on: June 01, 2013, 04:46:34 PM »
Another option is that I could ask for posting permission to The Shelter and maybe we could do it in there? I'm not sure what is required for access, so I'm not sure if I can have it or not - it's automatic for theists. It tends to be a little less overwhelming in that area and it's likely that fewer responses will pop up while you're offline.

I'll wait for you to respond before doing anything about that.
you just have to ask and probably have a rep for not being too confrontational...

Offline Nam

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #171 on: June 01, 2013, 06:49:21 PM »
^she applauded an obvious insult. She has no reading comprehension.

-Nam

I applauded your insult of A's post being so long.  My reading comprehension is just fine.   I was being nice to you, you should try it sometime it feels good.

I wasn't insulting his post; I was being facetious to insult you. Again: no reading comprehension.

-Nam

FYI, I also thought you were admonishing Anf to be more concise, so perhaps your insult wasn't as obvious as you intended.

Perhaps you should check your reading comprehension. I'm rarely serious; I think I've proven that time and time again.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline DT

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #172 on: June 01, 2013, 11:00:06 PM »
As a believer I will say NO America is not cursed and any believer that stands up on TV and says so and this is the judgment of God is not representing Christ. I have heard similar things myself and one guy said that every hurricane travels old slave route paths...makes you think. Then someone else said the Magna Carta and documents that early settlers established devoting this land to God is the only thing saving us...again just makes you think. We just so happen to be in a good place for natural disasters.

Offline Jag

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Re: Is America Cursed?
« Reply #173 on: June 02, 2013, 12:49:49 AM »
Another option is that I could ask for posting permission to The Shelter and maybe we could do it in there? I'm not sure what is required for access, so I'm not sure if I can have it or not - it's automatic for theists. It tends to be a little less overwhelming in that area and it's likely that fewer responses will pop up while you're offline.

I'll wait for you to respond before doing anything about that.
you just have to ask and probably have a rep for not being too confrontational...

And to be both honest and fair, I'm not sure that I qualify. I'm going to wait to hear back from junebug before taking any action in any case.
"It's hard to, but I'm starting to believe some of you actually believe these things.  That is completely beyond my ability to understand if that is really the case, but things never cease to amaze me."