Life is a Gift-Why am I so Thankful?

[Jag]

Hey Jag,

I have my reasons.  I'm here to stay.  I find this forum enlightening.  You guys ask me things I don't think to ask myself.  I learn here.  Not what you want me to but what I need.  I'm thankful for WWGHA.

Bold mine. Don't assign any motives to my question. It was sincere, as I indicated, and asked with no certainty of an answer. Now that you have made your intention to continue participating clear, you have answered it. Next step for me is to decide if I should continue discussing anything with you, based on your history so far.

Thanks for your response.

[The Gawd]

I sure don't see how you got there from here.  It saved my life which should carry a little value to you if you care about your fellow man.  I could've turned to drugs and alcohol like a lot of people do.  Everyone is Important, me included.  For you to say otherwise is just callous.

I don't hog prayers I hardly ever pray for myself.  I pray more for you than I do me. I did cry out to God when I couldn't take anymore and I got the comfort I needed.

I dont understand why you think its okay for god to save your life, but usher those kids on to deaths door. Can you not see how selfish you are for postulating such a notion? how arrogant that makes you... maybe you need to step back and ask yourself why you think of all the 7 billion people on this planet you think you are important enough for god to save while he lets thousands upon thousands starve to death yearly. If not millions. I tell you what, even before I left Christianity and god belief, I said a prayer for to stop giving me shit and to take whatever was coming to me and instead take care of those kids... didnt happen though.

[junebug72]

I think it's because it's so easy to turn from God with anger when times are hard, understandably so.

Except that's not what usually happens - the opposite is actually the case much more often. The greater the stress, the more likely the believer is to "rely on God". You're making things up again - what you think is not to be confused with actual facts.

And despite all the discussion you've participated in here, you're still making the typical theist assumption of mistaking our lack of belief in the deity you believe in, for anger at the same deity. Ridiculous, dear Junebug, utterly ridiculous. Have you ever been mad at a unicorn, or a leprechaun? None of us are mad at your god either, because we don't think he exists. Or any others, along with their mythical cohorts for that matter; we don't believe in Allah, Thor, Loki, Aphrodite, Medusa, or the Minotaur. No Persephone, no Hades, no Zeus, no Athena. The list of gods we disbelieve in is a long one, and all-inclusive. Yours is at the top of the list.

I said I think at the beginning. I never said fact. I know better.

I wouldn't want you to discriminate. :)lol

I tell you what if I can't do it you can't. At least I had the decency to say I think.  Since you stated a fact how about a couple of links to support your claim; People hold to faith rather than turn away with anger.  Support it please I can't just accept it because you say so.  I'll go see what I can find about what "I Think."

You're angry alright.  So if your not angry at God who are you mad at.

I have known several people that have lost faith thru trials.  I hear about it all the time. I myself am one of them.  So I am a good source of examples of how both affect recovery.

I've heard several atheist post here that they used to be believers. I would bet money that the process of losing faith began with  personal tragedy. Just saying.

[junebug72]

I sure don't see how you got there from here.  It saved my life which should carry a little value to you if you care about your fellow man.  I could've turned to drugs and alcohol like a lot of people do.  Everyone is Important, me included.  For you to say otherwise is just callous.

I don't hog prayers I hardly ever pray for myself.  I pray more for you than I do me. I did cry out to God when I couldn't take anymore and I got the comfort I needed.

I dont understand why you think its okay for god to save your life, but usher those kids on to deaths door. Can you not see how selfish you are for postulating such a notion? how arrogant that makes you... maybe you need to step back and ask yourself why you think of all the 7 billion people on this planet you think you are important enough for god to save while he lets thousands upon thousands starve to death yearly. If not millions. I tell you what, even before I left Christianity and god belief, I said a prayer for to stop giving me shit and to take whatever was coming to me and instead take care of those kids... didnt happen though.

So you don't think God should help little 7 year old girls that are molested? I trust God has those children under his care, spiritually.  We are responsible for helping them physically.

He's got the whole world in his hands. LA LA LA LA LA  I think God is there with us all.  Not to control us but to comfort us. 

You should've given those things yourself and saved God the trouble.  You're killing me right now I m bad for accepting God's help after what I suffered thru, maybe you need details I was 7 and he was an ugly fat smelly man with thick glasses but you expectedGod to run your errands. WoW.

[junebug72]

Hey Jag,

I have my reasons.  I'm here to stay.  I find this forum enlightening.  You guys ask me things I don't think to ask myself.  I learn here.  Not what you want me to but what I need.  I'm thankful for WWGHA.

Bold mine. Don't assign any motives to my question. It was sincere, as I indicated, and asked with no certainty of an answer. Now that you have made your intention to continue participating clear, you have answered it. Next step for me is to decide if I should continue discussing anything with you, based on your history so far.

Thanks for your response.

Always a measure jag. I'm sure you'll do whatever is best for you. I am thankful for you Jag.

[junebug72]

Is it possible for the parents to grow gardens where these children live?  If not, maybe they should be relocated!!!  Are there grocery stores?  We could give them EBT cards. 

Yes I believe those children are surrounded by Angels.  I can't see them but I BELIEVE they are there.  Just as I believe they are there for all of us. Not to control us but to comfort us if you are WILLING.

You are the most naive person I've seen on this forum - ever.

-1

I believe and trust in God.  That doesn't make me naive.  It makes me different from you.  If you had lived my exact same life you might have a different opinion.

 I thought you shouldn't judge a woman...until you've walked a mile...

[junebug72]

Let's don't spend 5 pages debating my naivity.0

Anf,

Yes I won't ever think of that song w/o thinking of those pitiful children.  But yet you support the greed that creates poverty.  There is no god according to you so who is to blame for poverty?  How can it be prevented?  What can I do to help?  I give as much as I can.

Can any of us even enjoy a meal knowing those kids are starving.  Think about them every time you put steak or broccolli or corn or peanut butter and jelly lets all picture those starving children.

[natlegend]

You're angry alright.  So if your not angry at God who are you mad at.

You realise you're repeating yourself here, yeah? Mad can generally be replaced with angry. Same thing.

So you don't think God should help little 7 year old girls that are molested? I trust God has those children under his care, spiritually.

Well gee thanks god for those first 12 years of my life, they seriously sucked shit. Glad to know I had angels all around me, but it would've been an awful lot more helpful if they just killed the c#@t that was fucking up my childhood.

[natlegend]

Let's don't spend 5 pages debating my naivity.0

Anf,

Yes I won't ever think of that song w/o thinking of those pitiful children.  But yet you support the greed that creates poverty.  There is no god according to you so who is to blame for poverty?  How can it be prevented?  What can I do to help?  I give as much as I can.

Can any of us even enjoy a meal knowing those kids are starving.  Think about them every time you put steak or broccolli or corn or peanut butter and jelly lets all picture those starving children.

Then go do good works in the name of your lord. Luke18:22 "Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet you lack one thing: sell all that you have, and distribute unto the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me"

Have you done this yet?

[sun_king]

<snip>

Life is a precious gift, Who's the Giver?

<snip>

Life is a precious gift, Who's the Taker?

It is disgusting to see you thank the entity who takes lives with unimaginable cruelty. And don't start about the spiritual rescue crap, it is such a filthy excuse.

Can any of us even enjoy a meal knowing those kids are starving.

It seems that you are enjoying. You are praising the one who created the suffering. You are rejoicing.
What kind of an existence are you?

[Anfauglir]

Anf,

Yes I won't ever think of that song w/o thinking of those pitiful children.  But yet you support the greed that creates poverty. 

And you support the god that allows it to continue.  Difference is, your god could help them in a second, it's much, much harder for man. 

Incidentally, don't call me Anf.  That's just for my friends.

[Anfauglir]

I have my reasons.  I'm here to stay.  I find this forum enlightening.  You guys ask me things I don't think to ask myself.  I learn here.  Not what you want me to but what I need.  I'm thankful for WWGHA.

Interesting.

Specifically, what have you learned here?

[Bereft_of_Faith]

Credit whom you will, but it seems to me that your parents are solely responsible for you being here.

My parents aren't responsible for them being here or human existence.  They were thankful to God as well for their lives.

Go ahead and be thankful to whomever you like.  The fact is that YOU are alive because your mother and father had sex resulting in a pregnancy.  Their mothers and fathers did the same.  That's how we ALL get here. 

Your statement that "Life is a precious gift, Who's the Giver?" is begging the question.  My answer:  Life is NOT a precious gift.  It happens.  If we accept your premise without question, then thank your mom and dad.

Now if you're talking about the quality of your life, see other posts above for rebuttal on that point.

[junebug72]

You're angry alright.  So if your not angry at God who are you mad at.

You realise you're repeating yourself here, yeah? Mad can generally be replaced with angry. Same thing.

So you don't think God should help little 7 year old girls that are molested? I trust God has those children under his care, spiritually.

Well gee thanks god for those first 12 years of my life, they seriously sucked shit. Glad to know I had angels all around me, but it would've been an awful lot more helpful if they just killed the c#@t that was fucking up my childhood.

I'm sorry your childhood sucked.  Mine did too.  I've turned my negative into a positive and so can you.  what I believe God will do is turn them a$$holes into one of those shit eating bugs.  You know the ones.

I'm sure it will be appropriate.

[Razel]

You're thankful because your life doesn't suck.

[junebug72]

Anf,

Yes I won't ever think of that song w/o thinking of those pitiful children.  But yet you support the greed that creates poverty. 

And you support the god that allows it to continue.  Difference is, your god could help them in a second, it's much, much harder for man. 

Incidentally, don't call me Anf.  That's just for my friends.

I'm abbreviating. I'll just use A.

Thanks for letting me know where I stand.  Have a nice day.

[junebug72]

I have my reasons.  I'm here to stay.  I find this forum enlightening.  You guys ask me things I don't think to ask myself.  I learn here.  Not what you want me to but what I need.  I'm thankful for WWGHA.

Interesting.

Specifically, what have you learned here?

I only share that with friends. 

[junebug72]

You're thankful because your life doesn't suck.

My life doesn't suck because I trust God.  I don't let it suck.

[junebug72]

Credit whom you will, but it seems to me that your parents are solely responsible for you being here.

My parents aren't responsible for them being here or human existence.  They were thankful to God as well for their lives.

Go ahead and be thankful to whomever you like.  The fact is that YOU are alive because your mother and father had sex resulting in a pregnancy.  Their mothers and fathers did the same.  That's how we ALL get here. 

Your statement that "Life is a precious gift, Who's the Giver?" is begging the question.  My answer:  Life is NOT a precious gift.  It happens.  If we accept your premise without question, then thank your mom and dad.

Now if you're talking about the quality of your life, see other posts above for rebuttal on that point.

Hold on I thought it was a big bang and evolution.  I know I heard that somewhere.  Should I not be thankful for that inyour atheistic world?

[junebug72]

Let's don't spend 5 pages debating my naivity.0

Anf,

Yes I won't ever think of that song w/o thinking of those pitiful children.  But yet you support the greed that creates poverty.  There is no god according to you so who is to blame for poverty?  How can it be prevented?  What can I do to help?  I give as much as I can.

Can any of us even enjoy a meal knowing those kids are starving.  Think about them every time you put steak or broccolli or corn or peanut butter and jelly lets all picture those starving children.

Then go do good works in the name of your lord. Luke18:22 "Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet you lack one thing: sell all that you have, and distribute unto the poor, and you shall have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me"

Have you done this yet?

Have you?  I live a humble life.  I do not consume more resources than I need.  I fast 3 days every month in honor of the many that does not have food. 

[HAL]

I do not consume more resources than I need.

Yes you do. Oh yes you do. I know this simply by observing that you are on this forum for starters.

[Anfauglir]

I have my reasons.  I'm here to stay.  I find this forum enlightening.  You guys ask me things I don't think to ask myself.  I learn here.  Not what you want me to but what I need.  I'm thankful for WWGHA.

Interesting.

Specifically, what have you learned here?

I only share that with friends.

<shrugs> Fair enough.  It just makes it harder to know what else you may wish to gain from this site if you aren't willing to clarify what you've gained so far.

[Anfauglir]

I've turned my negative into a positive and so can you.  what I believe God will do is turn them a$$holes into one of those shit eating bugs.

Whoa whoa - hang on!  I thought your claim was that we ALL went to heaven when we died?  Are you saying that some people do NOT?

When he turns them into bugs, as you believe, is there continuity of consciousness?  Does Joe Schmoe remember that he was once a human but now has to eat like a bug?

If he does.....can you explain how that could not be considered a "hell"?
If he does not.....what exactly is the point?

[jdawg70]

Anf,

Yes I won't ever think of that song w/o thinking of those pitiful children.  But yet you support the greed that creates poverty. 

And you support the god that allows it to continue.  Difference is, your god could help them in a second, it's much, much harder for man. 

Incidentally, don't call me Anf.  That's just for my friends.

I'm abbreviating. I'll just use A.

Thanks for letting me know where I stand.  Have a nice day.

I'm glad that you responded to the salient part of Anfauglir's post.

[screwtape]

So you don't think God should help little 7 year old girls that are molested? I trust God has those children under his care, spiritually. 

This is the danger of godbelief.  It is a denial of reality.  You have fabricated a happy ending where there is none.  You are trying to tell yourself they are really okay, because you want that to be true.  But it is not true.  They're not okay.  There is no protection for those girls and boys.  Being protected "spiritually" is meaningless, especially since they are mentally and phyiscally harmed.  Spiritual protection is just something you say so you don't have to face the horror of reality. And it is horrible.

We are responsible for helping them physically.

Yeah, well, we don't know who they are so putting all the responsibility on us is a little unfair.  If I knew who all the molesters were and I could stop them, I would.  It would be immoral for me to not.  Yet somehow believers let their god off the hook when it comes to his responsiblity in the matter.  I could agree with you that god does not cause men to molest children.[1]  But he knows who all the molesters are and has absolute power to stop them.  He doesn't.  That is evil.

1.	he kind of does, but I'll let that one go for the sake of this discussion.

[Azdgari]

I guess if the molested children aren't really being harmed, then there's no point in trying to stop child molesters.  The kids will be just fine, according to Junebug.

[Anfauglir]

(god) knows who all the molesters are and has absolute power to stop them. 

God is omnipresent, of course.  So in every room where a child is being abused, there stands god.

Watching.....

Am I the only one who finds that creepy?  Especially since he comes back the next night to watch it all happen again.

- - - - -

I'm being slightly flip about a subject that absolutely horrifies me.  But perhaps that's because of the total repugnance I feel towards any "god" who would stand by and do nothing.  I'm with screwtape - I can't imagine ANY situation where it would be acceptable to stand and watch a child being abused.  There might, perhaps, be an argument against intervening directly yourself if you were outweighed, outnumbered, or whatever, but still - call the cops, scream "fire", do something.

But just to watch, as it happens over and over again?  To shrug one's shoulders and say smugly "oh, it's not down to ME, someone ELSE bears responsibility for that"?  No.  That is, if possible, an even sicker attitude than the people doing the abusing.

There is a famous quote that says "for evil to triumph, all it requires is for good men to stand by and do nothing".  But the gods stand by and do nothing every day.  I wonder....does that mean that they are "good men" every time the abuser gets away with it?  Or are they as guilty of the offence as the person/s actually involved?

[Jag]

I think it's because it's so easy to turn from God with anger when times are hard, understandably so.

Except that's not what usually happens - the opposite is actually the case much more often. The greater the stress, the more likely the believer is to "rely on God". You're making things up again - what you think is not to be confused with actual facts.

And despite all the discussion you've participated in here, you're still making the typical theist assumption of mistaking our lack of belief in the deity you believe in, for anger at the same deity. Ridiculous, dear Junebug, utterly ridiculous. Have you ever been mad at a unicorn, or a leprechaun? None of us are mad at your god either, because we don't think he exists. Or any others, along with their mythical cohorts for that matter; we don't believe in Allah, Thor, Loki, Aphrodite, Medusa, or the Minotaur. No Persephone, no Hades, no Zeus, no Athena. The list of gods we disbelieve in is a long one, and all-inclusive. Yours is at the top of the list.

I said I think at the beginning. I never said fact. I know better.

I wouldn't want you to discriminate. :)lol

I tell you what if I can't do it you can't. At least I had the decency to say I think.  Since you stated a fact how about a couple of links to support your claim; People hold to faith rather than turn away with anger.  Support it please I can't just accept it because you say so.  I'll go see what I can find about what "I Think."

You're angry alright.  So if your not angry at God who are you mad at.

I have known several people that have lost faith thru trials.  I hear about it all the time. I myself am one of them.  So I am a good source of examples of how both affect recovery.

I've heard several atheist post here that they used to be believers. I would bet money that the process of losing faith began with  personal tragedy. Just saying.

So does this line - I'll go see what I can find about what "I Think." - mean you're going to bother to do some research for yourself this time? I didn't post any support because you haven't followed up on anything I've given you so far. You can dig up this answer for yourself; prove that you can do it.

And again, your subjective experience (you have not lost your faith, as your god-is-so-awesome posts consistently indicate) for objective reality. If 85% of the country claims to be christian, how could you possibly be right? You don't even need to research it, just apply a dose of common sense and think about it for a minute.

You're still employing sloppy thinking junebug. Try holding off on being offended and consider what I'm trying to get through to you. I'm not insulting you, I'm pointing out what is consistently getting in the way of your efforts to communicate. I'm reluctant to discuss much with you, not because we don't agree about one single stupid topic - I'm reluctant to discuss much with you since you take offense at everything, misunderstand what is being posted by other people, and use vague terms that seem to have definitions that are unique to you and you fail to clarify what you mean by them when asked. I can certainly provide examples if you need to see a few of your old posts to be reminded.

You don't think things through - it's like you stop just one thought too soon and don't follow through to the obvious conclusion - God is taking care of you but ignoring starving children. This is not difficult to understand, yet somehow, you do.

[neopagan]

god sat by watching the killer tornado tear through where I am in Oklahoma yesterday.  His tornado hit two schools - nice work god, now get to work helping the dead kids spiritually - their parents, well... not so much.