Author Topic: I have a question about the Jesus genealogy.  (Read 535 times)

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Offline tapdancingcow

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I have a question about the Jesus genealogy.
« on: May 19, 2013, 09:21:38 PM »
I was discussing the Jesus genealogy  with my atheist husband yesterday.  It  has been probably discussed here too many times but the genealogy of Jesus is traced through Joseph, some claim it's might be Mary but more people say it's through ole Joe. 

It makes zero sense.   If his lineage is traced through Joseph back to King David then how, according to Christians, can Jesus be the son of god if Joe is the father?  How exactly do Christians explain this?  Either god is the father or Joe is the father.  Have christians somehow figured out how to make this lunacy work? 

  Isn't this a catch 22 for Christianity or am I wrong? 



Tap


Offline kin hell

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Re: I have a question about the Jesus genealogy.
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2013, 02:57:48 AM »
The virgin birth excuse implies a cuckoo in the nest[1].

I'm sorry I cannot seriously answer this question. Are their really people who trace JHChrist's lineage back through Joe? Idiots if so.

Good question Tap





 1. Joe mighta been a carpenter, but someone else nailed his missus. Oz vernaculary speaking...
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline Mrjason

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Re: I have a question about the Jesus genealogy.
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2013, 03:36:03 AM »
the explanations of why the genealogies in Matthew 1:16 and Luke 3:23 differ as well  ;)

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: I have a question about the Jesus genealogy.
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2013, 05:03:26 AM »
I was discussing the Jesus genealogy  with my atheist husband yesterday.  It  has been probably discussed here too many times but the genealogy of Jesus is traced through Joseph, some claim it's might be Mary but more people say it's through ole Joe. 

Yes, there is an OT prediction that the Messiah would come as rod through the stem of Jesse", Isaiah 11:1. However, there is also the Immanuel crap, Matt 1:23 and the prediction in Isaiah 7:14.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaiah_7:14

Matthew's Septaguint translation said "virgin", so he went with it. (He also went with 2 donkeys in Zechariah 9:9, because he was an idiot.)

It's a case of having your cake and eating it; then burning it, and then putting it in the recycling bin.


Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline The Gawd

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Re: I have a question about the Jesus genealogy.
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2013, 07:36:40 AM »
I was discussing the Jesus genealogy  with my atheist husband yesterday.  It  has been probably discussed here too many times but the genealogy of Jesus is traced through Joseph, some claim it's might be Mary but more people say it's through ole Joe. 

It makes zero sense.   If his lineage is traced through Joseph back to King David then how, according to Christians, can Jesus be the son of god if Joe is the father?  How exactly do Christians explain this?  Either god is the father or Joe is the father.  Have christians somehow figured out how to make this lunacy work? 

  Isn't this a catch 22 for Christianity or am I wrong? 



Tap
Life experience has shown me that there are more possibilities than yahweh and Joe. Joe's response to the situation suggests to me that he likely had slept with Mary before they were wed. But I think Ive seen enough Maury to realize that she just may have had more partners than she's leading us to believe. I mean, as a guy who used to be a rolling stone I cant tell you how many times I've heard "I dont usually do this" or "You're only my third" and me knowing full well that those were lies...

Offline Nick

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Re: I have a question about the Jesus genealogy.
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2013, 08:21:29 AM »
Tap, stop asking those hard questions.  You are rocking the boat. ;)
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline neopagan

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Re: I have a question about the Jesus genealogy.
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2013, 09:53:20 AM »
Tap,

Great question - struggled with it myself. 

I don't remember the quote word for word, but Hitchens helped me a lot - what's more probable, the eternal laws of the universe were suspended or a Jewish minx lied?

In my days of theism, I always found it amusing to hear it said the holy spirit came upon Mary... well, duh, then how'd she get preggers?  Yeah, evil, I know but I had bad thoughts as a xian back then too.  ;)
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline Graybeard

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Re: I have a question about the Jesus genealogy.
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2013, 10:03:34 AM »
In Judaism, and most sensibly, jewish lineage is traced through the mother, not the father – we all know who our mother is, not all of us know our father. ; )

In a patriarchal society, this produces a paradox, the man owns the woman, therefore the children are his but are really only his wife’s. It is thus that, assuming no adultery, (as this would produce a flawed line) the male line is named but, it should be the female line.

I assume that Christians follow the paternal line because that is what they do: they would be wrong. Christ came to save God’s Tribe, The Jews, not the rest of us.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline tapdancingcow

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Re: I have a question about the Jesus genealogy.
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2013, 02:30:51 PM »
Wasn't Mary around 14 or 15 years old?  God or Joe (take your pick) would have been brought in on charges of statutory rape in todays world.  Wonder why God didn't see into  the future and witness our modern rape laws?

Tap
 

 


 

Offline neopagan

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Re: I have a question about the Jesus genealogy.
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2013, 02:52:47 PM »
Wasn't god the great lawgiver and originator of all morality?  :?  Maybe he was the originator of child rape laws by showing off a bit...

Matthew's and Luke's genealogies don't even agree with each other, so in some sense you have to figure out which one you are going with before even talking the lunacy of how the virgin (aka young woman) ended up preggers
If xian hell really exists, the stench of the burning billions of us should be a constant, putrid reminder to the handful of heavenward xians how loving your god is.  - neopagan

Offline Petey

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He never pays attention, he always knows the answer, and he can never tell you how he knows. We can't keep thrashing him. He is a bad example to the other pupils. There's no educating a smart boy.
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Offline Mooby

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Re: I have a question about the Jesus genealogy.
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2013, 04:22:15 PM »
Wasn't Mary around 14 or 15 years old?  God or Joe (take your pick) would have been brought in on charges of statutory rape in todays world.
The Bible never gives Mary's age.  Her speculated age is based on the average age of betrothal in the Jewish culture, which would place her around 13-14 at the time of her pregnancy (and thus 14-15 when she gave birth.)  This is not canonical, though.

Quote
Wonder why God didn't see into  the future and witness our modern rape laws
He actually did, and then He looked past them to the future ultimate rape laws after the Consentual Revolution of 2267, which gained universal acceptance in all cultures from that point onward.
"I'm doing science and I'm still alive."--J.C.

Offline bgb

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Re: I have a question about the Jesus genealogy.
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2013, 05:03:13 PM »
All of this over a fictional character.
The whole point of science is that most of it is uncertain. That's why science is exciting--because we don't know. Science is all about things we don't understand. The public, of course, imagines science is just a set of facts. But it's not.  Freeman Dyson

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: I have a question about the Jesus genealogy.
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2013, 06:46:58 PM »
Wasn't Mary around 14 or 15 years old?  God or Joe (take your pick) would have been brought in on charges of statutory rape in todays world.  Wonder why God didn't see into  the future and witness our modern rape laws?

Tap
 

Hoo boy did I get in trouble speculumatin' about this over at the other site, let me tell you. Resident Catholic went ballistic at the idea that god, or Mary, or both did something unholy. Like, da nasty. Or especially, a god doing non-consentual nasty with an underaged teen girl.

How could a young teen possibly be able to give informed consent to having a god's child? Who will then be sacrificed in 30 years to save all of humanity. Right, she understood everything, no need for a husband or parent or a lawyer advising her or anything like that. And of course she had the right to refuse. Didn't she? Bueller? Hello?

Is there anything like a precedent for a god making a human lady pregnant? (Well, yeah, lots, in other cultural myths and religions, but besides that.)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Nick

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Re: I have a question about the Jesus genealogy.
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2013, 08:07:44 PM »
All of this over a fictional character.
What are you trying to say??? ;)
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

Tide goes in, tide goes out !!!

Offline Graybeard

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Re: I have a question about the Jesus genealogy.
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2013, 08:38:51 PM »
Wasn't Mary around 14 or 15 years old?  God or Joe (take your pick) would have been brought in on charges of statutory rape in todays world.  Wonder why God didn't see into  the future and witness our modern rape laws?

Tap
 
Perhaps not

Quote
Israel

According to the Israeli Penal Code of 1977 the age of consent in Israel is 16 for any form of sexual relations involving penetration, 14 if no penetration takes place. A special case arises when a person aged 14 or 15 had sexual relations with an older partner; in this case the older partner would be exempt of criminal liability if three conditions are met: the age difference between the partners was less than three years, the younger partner gave consent and the act was done out of "regular friendly relations" and without the abuse of power.[35]
I don't know what it was before 1977. also see

Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”