Author Topic: Anti-Hydrogen, the Big Bang, and Universal annihilation.  (Read 2552 times)

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Offline JackWhitehead1

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Anti-Hydrogen, the Big Bang, and Universal annihilation.
« on: November 17, 2008, 06:52:40 PM »
Assuming that you have some sort of education in physics to a respectable level, you will know about fundamental particles. You will most probably know that all fundamental particles have anti-particles also.
One of the more known examples is the electron anti-particle; the positron.

           Fundamental particles exist in 2 families (as of we know, although a third [and more] families are being theorised), Leptons and Hadrons.

          The particles I want to concentrate on most, are the electrons, the protons, and the neutrons, which naturally occur and make up you and I, and their alternative opposites, positrons, anti-protons, and anti-neutrons.

          Anti-particles have been observed and factually exist, yet do not naturally occur. And when an anti-particle meets it's opposite, they will both annihilate into waves or further elementary particles depending on the speed of collision, and the type of particles involved, (Hadron, or lepton).

          Today I had an interesting thought; can I manufacture, somehow, an anti-atom?
It's simple to visualise, Anti-neutrons and Anti-Protons making up the nucleus, held together by the strong force they are subject to, and positrons whizzing about the outside.
Why has this never happened before at some far away area of the universe?
The mass and stability of the atom should be exactly the same, it should behave exactly like any other atom would when introduced to another anti-atom.

        This anti-atom, whatever it may be, should experience covalent, ionic, and metallic bonding in exactly the same nature as a normal atom should.
        This anti-atom should experience intermolecular forces such as Anti-Hydrogen Bonding, Anti Van de Waals.

        The maths add up, so why don't the statistics?




       Well, me being abruptly curious of my own observation, decided to further theorise on my thoughts.
I know that an entity made of anti-particles, and an entity made up of normal particles, should annihilate in the same way that a singular particle would annihilate with it's corresponding anti-particle, and with that in mind, I began to visualise the very very start of the big bang - The very moment the first atom was made.

        I began to think that the only factor that effects the existence of anti-particles today, is the fact that the first particle to exist separately from it's anti-correspondent, was a particle which naturally occurs today. The very thing that stopped Anti-particles from occurring naturally was the existence of a higher concentration of naturally occurring particles.
        Therefore, the first atom created, was an atom made out of protons with positive charge, neutrons with no charge, and electrons with negative charge.

         It was the imperfections of the big bang, which has allowed life to exist as it does.

Had it happened another way, we could be made out of anti-particles and anti-atoms.
When we drink water, we would be drinking anti-water. When we eat food, we would be eating anti-food, entirely the opposite yet similar in every way.

         I mused on this theory for a while, before I got struck by a disturbing thought.

Do other universes exist, in which things happened differently, and by chance, what we know as anti-particles are the norm there?

         Presuming the strengths of the four forces of nature are exactly the same in this anti-universe (further presuming there are only four forces), this universe could be very much like our's in every way, yet entirely opposite.

         Now we know opposites annihilate, and I have heard theories of parralel universal membranes colliding, and using this as an example, the energy produced from two small entities annihilating, something as small as a 2 pence coin and an anti-2 pence coin, harbors the force of a nuclear bomb.
       
        So how will the entire universe react when annihilating with the entire constituents of an "Anti-Universe"?

        Big Bang II perhaps?

Just an interesting thought.
 


Offline Pale Rider

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Re: Anti-Hydrogen, the Big Bang, and Universal annihilation.
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2008, 06:56:08 PM »
Interesting concept Jack.............have you begun your experiment yet? I have never been one for the Big Bang Theory but its an interesting concept. 

Offline JackWhitehead1

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Re: Anti-Hydrogen, the Big Bang, and Universal annihilation.
« Reply #2 on: November 17, 2008, 06:59:29 PM »
Well it is scientifically possible to create an anti-atom, but the fact remains that it is damn hard.
It is very hard to create an anti-particle and then separate it from it's opposite particle.

What would you use to separate it?

It would be interesting to do some sort of work on this, but as of yet I can't see it happening ;)

Offline bahramthered

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Re: Anti-Hydrogen, the Big Bang, and Universal annihilation.
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2008, 07:57:41 AM »
I know they've been creating anti electrons for years, but have issues with anti protons and as a result anti atoms. This would be anti hydrogen andf since last I heard they where only able to create and store 5 anti electrons I don't know where the research is. But my information is a bit dated. I don't know what they're up to now.


But for the bigger record your making a fundamental mistake. It's beleived the the big bang wasn't the clamantic event people think it was. It may have been a minor spacial disruption (think an explosion of new space if that helps) that dumped a huge amount of energy into the universe. Almost roughly divided the two sides started forming and kicked off a huge multi part explosion as it became matter and anti matter and promptly destroyed on another with joyous explosions that resulted in our universe.

Due to slight imbalance in the numbers anti matter was used up. There's no logical reason parrell universes would have the same result.

*Want a nightmare scenario? Rember the show Sliders? No imagine if the team entered a world like this? One matchbox composed of antimatter has more energy than hundreds of box cars of plutium (The expert who gave me this analogy might have said trains instead of one, It's been a while). Imagine the force of 4 human bodies detonating as antimatter. Makes nukes look like firecrackers.


The two questions no one has ever answered to my satisfaction is;

If an anti and normal hydrogen atom collided and exploded would they produce more energy than opposites of helium?

Say an atom of hydrogen hit an oxygen atom (and one was anti, I don't think it matters which). Obviously it goes boom, but what happens to the rest of the oxygen atom? It has more electrons and protons than the hydrogen. Do they scatter? Are they destroyed by the blast?

Offline xphobe

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Re: Anti-Hydrogen, the Big Bang, and Universal annihilation.
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2008, 08:19:23 AM »
The first anti-hydrogen atoms were made at CERN in Geneva in 1995.  All the ones made so far are very "hot", and therefore move fast, hit the walls of the container, and annihilate.  Magnetic and RF confinement has been proposed but so far nobody has been able to store them.

Helium + antihelium would produce much more energy than hydrogen + antihydrogen, because the mass of helium is greater, and energy is proportional to mass.

Quote
Say an atom of hydrogen hit an oxygen atom (and one was anti, I don't think it matters which). Obviously it goes boom, but what happens to the rest of the oxygen atom? It has more electrons and protons than the hydrogen. Do they scatter? Are they destroyed by the blast?

My (totally wild ass) guess is that the positron would meet an electron first and they would annihilate, leaving a positively charged oxygen ion.  As for the free negatively-charged antiproton, I have no idea.  Maybe it would "sit in" for the electron that just vanished?

I wonder what would happen if Christ met the Anti-Christ?  Assuming that both weighed approximately 180 lbs, what would be the energy of the resulting explosion?
I stopped believing for a little while this morning. Journey is gonna be so pissed when they find out...

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Re: Anti-Hydrogen, the Big Bang, and Universal annihilation.
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2008, 02:20:27 PM »
You lost me at,

Assuming that you have some sort of education in physics to a respectable level...

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Re: Anti-Hydrogen, the Big Bang, and Universal annihilation.
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2008, 03:37:56 PM »
Of course you can manufacture anti-particles
But the average cost is around $300,000,000 per milligram, and then you'd have to find a way of storing it without any annihilation
So ... I wouldn't ::)

I understand what you're saying with all this.
Presuming there are multiple universes out there, for one to annihilate ours completely would it not be required that it is in an equal yet opposite state of asymmetry?
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Offline MadBunny

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Re: Anti-Hydrogen, the Big Bang, and Universal annihilation.
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2008, 03:45:18 PM »
Anti-particles have been observed and factually exist, yet do not naturally occur.
Correction: the conditions for them to exist would be exceedingly, vanishingly rare.
Give a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a night.  Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

Offline JackWhitehead1

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Re: Anti-Hydrogen, the Big Bang, and Universal annihilation.
« Reply #8 on: November 18, 2008, 05:47:45 PM »

Presuming there are multiple universes out there, for one to annihilate ours completely would it not be required that it is in an equal yet opposite state of asymmetry?


I should think so. :)

Offline JackWhitehead1

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Re: Anti-Hydrogen, the Big Bang, and Universal annihilation.
« Reply #9 on: November 18, 2008, 05:50:44 PM »
Anti-particles have been observed and factually exist, yet do not naturally occur.
Correction: the conditions for them to exist would be exceedingly, vanishingly rare.

I should have specified what I meant there.
I know that energy can become a particle and an anti-particle, but what I meant by "naturally occur" was the idea that we're not going to run into a naturally occurring anti-hydrogen any time soon.

Offline JackWhitehead1

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Re: Anti-Hydrogen, the Big Bang, and Universal annihilation.
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2008, 05:52:37 PM »
The first anti-hydrogen atoms were made at CERN in Geneva in 1995.  All the ones made so far are very "hot", and therefore move fast, hit the walls of the container, and annihilate.  Magnetic and RF confinement has been proposed but so far nobody has been able to store them.


Absolutely amazing. I never knew that, thank you :)

Quote

I wonder what would happen if Christ met the Anti-Christ?  Assuming that both weighed approximately 180 lbs, what would be the energy of the resulting explosion?


The rapture...

Offline xphobe

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Re: Anti-Hydrogen, the Big Bang, and Universal annihilation.
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2008, 10:28:33 PM »
We don't need to speculate about anti-universes.  There could be anti-galaxies out there, in our own universe.  Since galaxies are separated by such vast amounts of vacuum, a galaxy could be completely composed of anti-atoms, and we'd never know unless we saw it colliding with a normal matter galaxy.  Chemically and physically it would behave the same way as normal matter, so we couldn't tell by looking at it, that it is antimatter.
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Offline bahramthered

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Re: Anti-Hydrogen, the Big Bang, and Universal annihilation.
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2008, 07:26:05 AM »
I got a book around here somewhere by a Nobel prize winner (where I learned a lot of this stuff) and he debunks that idea. He also mentions it's probalbe that our sun is generating and destroying antimatter along side it's nucelar fusion.

I've been hunting that book since yesterday but I can't find it. But I will.

Offline xphobe

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Offline dnc100589

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Re: Anti-Hydrogen, the Big Bang, and Universal annihilation.
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2008, 05:28:49 PM »
How does anyone know that we are not the anti universe? Or is that information relative to the observer?

Offline Cycle4Fun

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Re: Anti-Hydrogen, the Big Bang, and Universal annihilation.
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2008, 06:29:01 PM »
How does anyone know that we are not the anti universe? Or is that information relative to the observer?

We have a winner!  Which side is the evil destructive anti side is completely based on the observer. 

One possible reason we have more "us" instead of the nasty "them" is quantum mechanics which says anything is possible.  Random crap happens and the universe happened to have more "good" than "bad."
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Re: Anti-Hydrogen, the Big Bang, and Universal annihilation.
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2008, 01:27:01 AM »
How does anyone know that we are not the anti universe? Or is that information relative to the observer?

[Dramatic music plays] Dun... dun... dun!!!  :o

That would be a crap fest trying to figure that one out.  That's quite a thought provoking question right there.
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