Author Topic: Why doesn't God heal amputees? [#2743]  (Read 5912 times)

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Offline Dageivind

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Re: Why doesn't God heal amputees? [#2743]
« Reply #58 on: September 13, 2013, 12:40:56 PM »
1) God intervenes directly in the world.  You say: yes and no.  "God has choosen to work in the creation by the laws he made for the creation" - but also "Sertenly God interveins"

2) God does not intervene himself, but alters people's will so they intervene for him.  You say: yes and no.   "everything God wants to do on the Earth, he chooses to do trough people" - but also "he does not remove our mandate"

Bottom line?  I'm confused.

God interveined in different ways through history, like when he lived and died as a person, then was raised from the dead. Now that's not a good story to tell a scientists, lest he could see Jesus himself, and run some tests on a supernatural DNA and organic cells. Yet God has his way of confirming this story, like when Paul was knocked of his horse on his way to arrest Christians, or to me once I was praying.

And once again....not a straight answer.  It mostly SOUNDS like a "God intervenes directly in the world", but then there's the get-out that I've bolded, that seems to imply that you think god USED to intervene, but now does NOT in case he accidentally proves he exists(!).

So simple question, looking for a direct answer please.  Does your god intervene directly in the world, yes or no?

Yes He do! Now was it Moses or God who split the Red sea from the story of exodus? Or did God just use Moses to show some people some of his existence? I hope that clarify what I meant in the first place. Blessings!

Offline Boots

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Re: Why doesn't God heal amputees? [#2743]
« Reply #59 on: September 13, 2013, 01:17:45 PM »
Uh, not for me...anyone else?
It's one of the reasons I'm an atheist today.  I decided to take my religion seriously, and that's when it started to fall apart for me.
~jdawg70

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Why doesn't God heal amputees? [#2743]
« Reply #60 on: September 13, 2013, 02:03:06 PM »
Uh, not for me...anyone else?

No. The question marks make it very hard to figure out the position of the speaker. If it is "Could be this or could be that, or it could be the other," then that really doesn't clarify anything.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why doesn't God heal amputees? [#2743]
« Reply #61 on: September 14, 2013, 01:14:25 AM »
1) God intervenes directly in the world.  You say: yes and no.  "God has choosen to work in the creation by the laws he made for the creation" - but also "Sertenly God interveins"

2) God does not intervene himself, but alters people's will so they intervene for him.  You say: yes and no.   "everything God wants to do on the Earth, he chooses to do trough people" - but also "he does not remove our mandate"

Bottom line?  I'm confused.

God interveined in different ways through history, like when he lived and died as a person, then was raised from the dead. Now that's not a good story to tell a scientists, lest he could see Jesus himself, and run some tests on a supernatural DNA and organic cells. Yet God has his way of confirming this story, like when Paul was knocked of his horse on his way to arrest Christians, or to me once I was praying.

And once again....not a straight answer.  It mostly SOUNDS like a "God intervenes directly in the world", but then there's the get-out that I've bolded, that seems to imply that you think god USED to intervene, but now does NOT in case he accidentally proves he exists(!).

So simple question, looking for a direct answer please.  Does your god intervene directly in the world, yes or no?

Yes He do! Now was it Moses or God who split the Red sea from the story of exodus? Or did God just use Moses to show some people some of his existence? I hope that clarify what I meant in the first place. Blessings!

No.  It does not.

You answered "DID my god intervene" - and even then, as has been pointed out, you were not direct.

My question was, "DOES your god intervene in the world?"  Does he take direct action to alter the course of events in the world?

See my signature line?  I am running a thread on why believers find it so bloody hard to answer simple and direct questions.  As is normal, you are hedging your bets and tiptoeing carefully around the subject.....why?  Are you so unsure of your god and your theology?  Are you scared that a direct answer to a simple question will reveal glaring holes in your belief?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Online jaimehlers

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Re: Why doesn't God heal amputees? [#2743]
« Reply #62 on: September 14, 2013, 10:43:38 AM »
I'm sorry but that is confusing, and I would love to have some more scientific answares to spiritual questions, but until then I will trust in the feeling within me, that is very much alike what i later on have read in the Bible, which is why it makes more sense to me.
I think this illustrates the crux of the issue.  Dageivind trusts in this feeling - which is his feeling, after all - because it feels similar to the feeling he gets when he reads the Bible.  And that's not unreasonable.  Who here doesn't trust in feelings they get about things, especially if those feelings tell them that the things are good?  I enjoy reading because it feels good to read, and I would be extremely critical of someone who told me that I should stop reading because it was actually bad for me.

Now, of course, there is a difference between my enjoying my reading of certain kinds of books and Dageivind enjoying his reading of the Bible.  I don't try to convince other people that they should read those books because they will wake up in a giant library after they die, with any book they ever wanted to read available and new ones coming in all the time, and if they don't, the Great Bookkeeper will consign them to some awful fate.  But Dageivind does do that when he proselytizes for his religious beliefs - even though he has no proof that his own afterlife belief is any more valid than the fictional worlds created in millions of books.

Something you should really think about, Dageivind.  If the only way you can spread your belief that the stuff in the Bible is good is by telling them that they'll get something better after they die, or else they'll spend forever regretting it, is it really worth spreading?  Because honestly, that sounds like the kinds of thing that drug peddlers would say when they're trying to hook someone.

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Why doesn't God heal amputees? [#2743]
« Reply #63 on: September 15, 2013, 05:57:04 AM »

So simple question, looking for a direct answer please.  Does your god intervene directly in the world, yes or no?

Yes He do! Now was it Moses or God who split the Red sea from the story of exodus? Or did God just use Moses to show some people some of his existence? I hope that clarify what I meant in the first place. Blessings!
The point you are missing, Dageivind, and the one that destroys your argument, is that the story of the Israelites being held as slaves in Egypt is wrong. Egyptian records show that there were Israelites in Egypt but they were not slaves.

Despite years of archeological searching, no trace whatsoever of the 40 years wandering in the Wilderness has ever been found.

Egyptian records show no mention of the Red Sea parting.

From this and other contradictory evidence, we can assume that the whole story of Moses is fiction. Moses never existed.

So, your example is not an example and still your so-called "god" has done nothing.
Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Offline Dageivind

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Re: Why doesn't God heal amputees? [#2743]
« Reply #64 on: February 27, 2014, 05:00:15 AM »
1) God intervenes directly in the world.  You say: yes and no.  "God has choosen to work in the creation by the laws he made for the creation" - but also "Sertenly God interveins"

2) God does not intervene himself, but alters people's will so they intervene for him.  You say: yes and no.   "everything God wants to do on the Earth, he chooses to do trough people" - but also "he does not remove our mandate"

Bottom line?  I'm confused.

God interveined in different ways through history, like when he lived and died as a person, then was raised from the dead. Now that's not a good story to tell a scientists, lest he could see Jesus himself, and run some tests on a supernatural DNA and organic cells. Yet God has his way of confirming this story, like when Paul was knocked of his horse on his way to arrest Christians, or to me once I was praying.

And once again....not a straight answer.  It mostly SOUNDS like a "God intervenes directly in the world", but then there's the get-out that I've bolded, that seems to imply that you think god USED to intervene, but now does NOT in case he accidentally proves he exists(!).

So simple question, looking for a direct answer please.  Does your god intervene directly in the world, yes or no?

Yes He do! Now was it Moses or God who split the Red sea from the story of exodus? Or did God just use Moses to show some people some of his existence? I hope that clarify what I meant in the first place. Blessings!

No.  It does not.

You answered "DID my god intervene" - and even then, as has been pointed out, you were not direct.

My question was, "DOES your god intervene in the world?"  Does he take direct action to alter the course of events in the world?

See my signature line?  I am running a thread on why believers find it so bloody hard to answer simple and direct questions.  As is normal, you are hedging your bets and tiptoeing carefully around the subject.....why?  Are you so unsure of your god and your theology?  Are you scared that a direct answer to a simple question will reveal glaring holes in your belief?

Hey! I'm sorry I’m not able to reply all the messages here. I see some good feedbacks and I want to have a good dialog, but again it comes to prioritizing. Some of this might be off topic to why God won’t heal amputees, yet it’s straight on topic for the source of this question. Now as I see it the source of the question and the atmosphere here addresses how “smart” people can believe in God. So for me as an “educated” born again Christian and so, one of the representative subjects for the criticism, I will do my best to communicate my position and to be open and educated to yours.
Firs of about my priorities I’m not afraid to afraid to answer any questions, but there is just so many I’m not competent to give an answer too. I did not major in Philosophy or Science, so I will probably not give the right deontological, consequential reasoning, or any empiric based conclusions. My insights of Theology will of course also be limited. Still I did find engineering on the list, but read me for what I am, and don’t expect me to be the Oracle of Christianity, or a stereotype of “educated Christians”. My field is construction, and my focus in life will often be the big lines, rather than details. One of the biggest lines is the meaning of life. From doing a holistic observation I find that I am longing for the world to be more of a paradise for all people, and I can’t help but to question myself why the situation for most people are so far form that. From Aristotle the worker has desire, the warrior has passion/emotions and the leader has reasoning. Then the leader needs to educate the others to get a good society. I see myself more as a worker or a soldier, than a leader. However somewhere in my education the leader failed, as I spent 16 years in school, and yet did not understand the core existence of life. I was taught but one theory of existence, and not any depth of it. So if anyone wants people to grow up without believing in God, please let them know why it’s more logical that:
A)   A random explosion created the first structure of organic matter with some DNA Chromosomes and protein cell walls from Carbon and other eternal matter, and then evolved by natural selection.

Then:

B)   God whom somehow speaks to people’s heart made it for a reason by design, because He can and He wanted to. Even though the matter part was easy to Him, the free will and discerning good and evil seems to have taken some more time.
Now it might be that I’m just under educated, but I think such an important question for the base of life and choices should be better explained even for the workers and soldiers, otherwise they might believe in anything by philosophy and craftiness of leaders. Especially the Christians leaders you know… ;) Or even Darwin’s grandfather who believed in the philosophy of evolution before Charles was born. Now often we find what we look for to make sense of this mystery called life. But to me it’s not Okay to mock Christians for being stupid because they can’t prove Gods existence, lest you teach them more than a half logical philosophy mixed with science during their primary education. If we are descendants of the apes how comes our organs are more like that of pigs? If information on DNA are lost, like blond hair will be extinguished, how comes we “evolves”? So despite my education, I still can’t make any better sense of life than to believe God exists. Then I might assume it’s easy for God too heal amputees, but to bless us with the opportunity to learn the difference between good and evil, He has not yet eliminated evil, and its consequences. Like that from a land mine, and so it might just be that He can only do what we have faith fore. And I’m sorry to say that my faith has not yet provided me to see any “proving” miracles. Yet my heart, my feelings and till further educated my mind tells me it’s more logical that God made this. Then in our mystery life as we see it we are subjects to time because of decay. And we measure it in ordnance with the structure of our quite accurate universe, with gravity and speed vectors for e.g. the earth and the moon.
Then we have a value and a potential that God has created rather than nature. He has a plan for His “kingdom come” on earth as in heaven, and I can be a part of that plan. So I can design and build by his will the society that provides what He asked form us in Matthew 25:
-   Food
-   Drink
-   Cloths
-   Integration for all people
-   Freedom to those in captivity, or at least visitation and education so “workers, soldiers and leaders” will find their right way and purpose in life, rather than being a tool for evil.
It’s a society based on tree core values of Gods kingdom, righteousness, peace and joy. It’s a kingdom of freedom, yet no desire or need of evil. And we can build our cities and countries as close to that ideal as possible. But we should not be surprised if we face some opposition, we call him the Devil. Now if anyone has a desire to question the spiritual sphere of life I would like to find an opportunity to expose us to some opposites in the Satanic and Christian atmosphere, but I guess we can find more of this just by searching the internet. It would however be interesting if someone could do some science experiment on this part of life as well. But I will prioritize my strength, which is within practical side of life, as workers do. I desire to construct in ways that people may have a better environment to grow up in. Therefor I leave science and philosophy to someone more designed for that. But again please educate me about a “better” view of life, but don’t give me any half scientific answers, and then call me stupid. Cern has been running for some years now, but I still don’t see logic to such an important statement as “God does not exist”. And please make the logic understandable for “workers and soldier” that we might be kept from dilutions.

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Why doesn't God heal amputees? [#2743]
« Reply #65 on: February 27, 2014, 05:20:47 AM »
1) God intervenes directly in the world.  You say: yes and no.  "God has choosen to work in the creation by the laws he made for the creation" - but also "Sertenly God interveins"

2) God does not intervene himself, but alters people's will so they intervene for him.  You say: yes and no.   "everything God wants to do on the Earth, he chooses to do trough people" - but also "he does not remove our mandate"

Bottom line?  I'm confused.

God interveined in different ways through history, like when he lived and died as a person, then was raised from the dead. Now that's not a good story to tell a scientists, lest he could see Jesus himself, and run some tests on a supernatural DNA and organic cells. Yet God has his way of confirming this story, like when Paul was knocked of his horse on his way to arrest Christians, or to me once I was praying.

And once again....not a straight answer.  It mostly SOUNDS like a "God intervenes directly in the world", but then there's the get-out that I've bolded, that seems to imply that you think god USED to intervene, but now does NOT in case he accidentally proves he exists(!).

So simple question, looking for a direct answer please.  Does your god intervene directly in the world, yes or no?

Yes He do! Now was it Moses or God who split the Red sea from the story of exodus? Or did God just use Moses to show some people some of his existence? I hope that clarify what I meant in the first place. Blessings!

No.  It does not.

You answered "DID my god intervene" - and even then, as has been pointed out, you were not direct.

My question was, "DOES your god intervene in the world?"  Does he take direct action to alter the course of events in the world?

See my signature line?  I am running a thread on why believers find it so bloody hard to answer simple and direct questions.  As is normal, you are hedging your bets and tiptoeing carefully around the subject.....why?  Are you so unsure of your god and your theology?  Are you scared that a direct answer to a simple question will reveal glaring holes in your belief?

Hey! I'm sorry I’m not able to reply all the messages here. I see some good feedbacks and I want to have a good dialog, but again it comes to prioritizing. Some of this might be off topic to why God won’t heal amputees, yet it’s straight on topic for the source of this question. Now as I see it the source of the question and the atmosphere here addresses how “smart” people can believe in God......

It took you 5 months to come up with that?  A lengthy ramble, and yet another dodge to the simple yes/no question I am asking.

Does your god intervene in the world today - yes or no.

"Sometimes" is fine as an answer.  "I don't know" is also fine as an answer.  But talking about the Bible - about what allegedly happened centuries ago, is not an answer.  I KNOW you think god used to intervene.  What I have been trying to get you to answer is whether your god still intervenes in the world, now, today.

It seems like such a simple question.  I do not understand why you are so unable to answer it.  Its nothing to do with "education", or even intelligence.  Its everthing to do with honesty, and the strength of your convictions.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Online Nam

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Re: Why doesn't God heal amputees? [#2743]
« Reply #66 on: February 27, 2014, 05:30:33 AM »
He lost that when he became a Christian.

;)

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.