Author Topic: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.  (Read 1389 times)

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Offline Schizoid

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If there were 100 men dead for 40 minutes who received prayer rather than the new CPR technique, how many would be revived?  Any?

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/local_news/water_cooler/dead-for-40-minutes-man-revived-by-new-cpr-technique

"An Australian man was clinically dead for 40 minutes before being brought back to life by a new resuscitation technique.

Doctors pronounced Colin Fiedler, 39, dead last June after he had a heart attack, the Herald Sun reported.

They were able to revive him, however, using a mechanical CPR machine called the “AutoPulse” and a portable heart-lung machine that kept blood and oxygen flowing to his vital organs.

Fiedler is one of three patients revived using the method after being declared dead for 40 to 60 minutes, the Herald Sun reported."

So this new CPR has worked 1 out of 3 times.  A proven medical resurrection.  I would bet that using prayer would result in 0 revived after 40 minutes or more, but that would simply be explained away by theists as god's will.  Right.


Offline Nick

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2013, 09:46:34 PM »
Wow, so was he sucked back from the pearly gates or had he already made it thru?  Had his family already spent the inheritance?

I would guess you would have to of had this heart attack near this equipment in order to be a lucky chosen one.   
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Offline Schizoid

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2013, 10:30:41 PM »
I would guess you would have to of had this heart attack near this equipment in order to be a lucky chosen one.   

This equipment will become more refined, improved, and successful as well as eventually more commonplace.  Many more people will be revived from what was even recently considered absolutely and completely dead as in "call it".  More proven scientific and medical resurrections.

Already science and medicine are truly healing amputees in giving them viable prosthetic limbs to replace the ones they lost.  What happens when the day comes when new limbs can be regrown by those who have lost them?  I'm sure even then that the theists will be explaining things away.

Online jaimehlers

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2013, 10:55:35 PM »
Schizoid, that means they've revived three people using this, not that there's a one-in-three success rate.

Offline Schizoid

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2013, 05:06:31 AM »
Schizoid, that means they've revived three people using this, not that there's a one-in-three success rate.

You're right, he was one OF three, not one IN three.  That's even better for scientific resurrection.  Once upon a time when someone was dead they were dead and the only actions were preparing for the funeral or burial.  At least medical/scientific resurrections can be proven.


Offline Anfauglir

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2013, 08:14:31 AM »
Schizoid, that means they've revived three people using this, not that there's a one-in-three success rate.

You're right, he was one OF three, not one IN three.  That's even better for scientific resurrection. 

Exactly how much depends how many they tried it on to get those three successes, of course! 

Three people revived after that much time is an excellent step forward (maybe - see below), but before I get too excited I'd want to know how many it was tried on that DIDN'T come back.

- - - - -

Is it a good thing?  I don't know.  The planet is at 7 billion people right now, with possibly another 3 billion in the next 50 years.  In 1900 it was around 1.6 billion.  People still want to have babies, and people are living longer.

This machine means that a lot of people who would have died, will now live on, sometimes for decades.  This guy was 39.  He could be here for at least as long again.  Do we have the resources to keep growing, keep breeding, and keep living longer?

For him, for his family, this machine is fantastic.  And on an individual basis, I would be hard pushed to say to anyone "don't use it".  But can we keep on keeping on?

- - - - -

Another point.  Why are the religions not up in arms about this machine?  They should be condemning it as hard as they condemn abortion, or suicide, or euthenasia....as GM crops, as DNA experimentation, as cloning.  Its all going against what god wants, after all?  Why the double standards just because this particular piece of "playing god" happens to be extending earthly life?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2013, 08:25:45 AM »
using a mechanical CPR machine called the “AutoPulse” and a portable heart-lung machine that kept blood and oxygen flowing to his vital organs.

So, not actually dead.  Some organs weren't functioning, but not dead.

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Online 12 Monkeys

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2013, 09:16:14 AM »
Dead without the Heart lung machine I would think....Better than Jesus because he was NOT the son of God and had no tricks up his sleeve
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Offline screwtape

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2013, 09:18:50 AM »
Dead without the Heart lung machine I would think....Better than Jesus because he was NOT the son of God and had no tricks up his sleeve

Oh, absolutely.  But "dead for 40 minutes" he was not.  Dead is dead.  "Not breathing and without a pulse" is not necessarily dead yet.
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Offline hickdive

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2013, 09:29:27 AM »
Why would anyone apply CPR, manually or mechanically, to someone who was 'declared dead'?

I suspect a lot of hyperbole in the report. Once you're declared dead that's it - no further resuscitation techniques are applied.

What probably happened is that he suffered from a sudden cardiac arrest, which is not the same thing as being 'declared dead' and this device was used to apply chest compresions for 40 minutes before his heart could be re-started with a defibrillator.

I think it very unlikely that he was pronounced clinically dead and left unattended for 40 minutes before applying the miracle machine.
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Offline Anfauglir

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2013, 09:38:57 AM »
Why would anyone apply CPR, manually or mechanically, to someone who was 'declared dead'?

That's a very good point.

Reading further into the story, and looking at articles on the machine, it appears that what happened was that his heart stopped, at which point he was "pronounced dead", since his heart was no longer beating by itself.  The machine then began making compressions, forcing his heart and lungs to keep working.  40 minutes later, his heart began to work again by itself.

So yeah.....he was "dead".....but he was still getting blood flow round his body, especially to his brain.  Nobody gave up on him, called dead, took off their scrubs....then half an hour later saomeone said "hey, why don't we strap that new machine on him"?

Effectively, it does nothing more than CPR.  Better than a human, sure - but no different than if someone had spent 40 minutes doing CPR pushes until his heart restarted.
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
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Online jaimehlers

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2013, 10:10:03 AM »
What it means is that if he hadn't been hooked up to the machine, he would probably have died.  So it's a not-so-minor medical miracle, but not a 'resurrection'.

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2013, 10:10:43 AM »
What it means is that if he hadn't been hooked up to the machine, he would probably have died.  So it's a not-so-minor medical miracle, but not a 'resurrection'.

Good point. Still, go science.
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Offline Petey

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2013, 10:52:27 AM »
I was going to say, if someone was actually completely dead for 40 minutes, even if there were a way to revive them, they would have some serious brain damage.
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Offline Godless Pope

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2013, 11:26:51 AM »
An identical thing happened to a Muslim woman pronounced dead by the hospital. Close to an hour later, her stricken family, grieving by her bedside, were stunned to find she could still communicate, a story made all the more strange because no medical intervention resuscitated her. The Muslims claimed it was a divine miracle. I claim it was medical incompetence. I will find the link.

Worst of all, a number of folks judged by doctors to have given up the ghost have awoken at their own funerals:

http://theweek.com/article/index/228986/7-bizarre-tales-of-people-coming-back-from-the-dead

Offline Nick

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2013, 02:12:38 PM »
Just another case for zombies.  Brains...I want brains. :o
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Online nogodsforme

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2013, 03:07:07 PM »
My uncle was declared dead--the family was informed by the hospital and we began making arrangements. We were informed a few days later that he had woken back up!

Then a few days after that, he died again, this time for good.

He apparently had already died and come back to life a few years before, so he was good at it.  :o
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Offline Schizoid

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2013, 08:08:42 PM »
I wonder what the exact details of this case are.  Was he actually "dead" for 40 minutes, or was he mostly dead, or just a little bit dead?

Did they allow him to remain "dead" for 40 minutes and then think to try the machine?  Or was he brought in after having been "dead" for 40 minutes and they tried the machine on him as soon as he arrived?

If this machine really brings people back to life who were truly "dead" isn't it playing god to interfere?  Of course it wouldn't be much of a god who couldn't keep someone dead who he wanted dead.

Offline stuffin

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2013, 08:19:34 PM »
How did they diagnose death? No brain activity is the general standard. Did they check his brain waves and cerebral blood flow?

And

Quality of life going forward?
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Offline screwtape

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2013, 07:27:36 AM »
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/14/dead-man-woke-up-zimbabwe-funeral_n_3275151.html

Quote
Mourners at a recent funeral in Zimbabwe were caught by surprise when the guest of honor sat up in his coffin.

According to local reports, 34-year-old Brighton Dama Zanthe, the seemingly dead man, woke up last week while friends and family prepared to pay their respects at his home in Gweru.

...
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Online natlegend

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2013, 04:53:18 PM »
Ooh ooh ooh can I be the first to say it...

...SCIENCE FTW!!!
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where God should have come up and said hello. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you fucking turn up and say well done." - Eddie Izzard

You keep using that word. I do not think it means

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #21 on: May 17, 2013, 11:22:26 AM »
 Miracle Max: He probably owes you money huh? I'll ask him.

Inigo Montoya: He's dead. He can't talk.

Miracle Max: Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there's usually only one thing you can do.

Inigo Montoya: What's that?

Miracle Max: Go through his clothes and look for loose change.
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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #22 on: May 17, 2013, 03:30:08 PM »
I especially like the way the very Yiddish Miracle Max pronounces dead as "deat". Billy Crystal at his best. ;D
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

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Online natlegend

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #23 on: May 17, 2013, 05:51:17 PM »
"Are there any rocks ahead?"
"If there are we'll all be dead"
"Stop that rhyming, I mean it!!"
"Anybody wanna peanut?"

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Great movie.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where God should have come up and said hello. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you fucking turn up and say well done." - Eddie Izzard

You keep using that word. I do not think it means

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #24 on: May 17, 2013, 06:03:02 PM »
"Are there any rocks ahead?"
"If there are we'll all be dead"
"Stop that rhyming, I mean it!!"
"Anybody wanna peanut?"

Sorry, couldn't help myself. Great movie.

The banter between Andre the Giant and Mandy Pantinkin was wonderful. They really seemed to be enjoying themselves.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline magicmiles

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2013, 12:22:25 AM »
"Inconceivable!"

"Um, I don't think that word means what you think it means..."
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Online natlegend

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2013, 04:48:10 AM »
Sorry to correct you...

"Incomcieveable!

"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means"...
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where God should have come up and said hello. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you fucking turn up and say well done." - Eddie Izzard

You keep using that word. I do not think it means

Offline magicmiles

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2013, 05:09:29 AM »
Yeah, I was working off a memory several years old. Very funny film.
The 2010 world cup was ruined for me by that slippery bastard Paul.

Offline dloubet

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Re: FULL Dead for 40 minutes: Man revived by new CPR technique.
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2013, 05:18:14 AM »
Does the word dead mean anything without some required finality? I would say the guy was very, very sick for 40 minutes, but recovered with the help of modern science.

Of course, without finality, Jesus didn't really die, he was just very very sick and recovered many hours later.
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