Author Topic: Gun Fails  (Read 132551 times)

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Offline Nick

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1421 on: February 17, 2018, 04:17:25 PM »
I assume there was prayer in that latest church that got shot up.  So much for that theory.
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Offline shnozzola

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1422 on: February 17, 2018, 08:27:12 PM »
Quote
A prominent Republican political donor demanded on Saturday that the party pass legislation to restrict access to guns, and vowed not to contribute to any candidates or electioneering groups that did not support a ban on the sale of military-style firearms to civilians.

Al Hoffman Jr., a Florida-based real estate developer who was a leading fund-raiser for George W. Bush’s campaigns, said he would seek to marshal support among other Republican political donors for a renewed assault weapons ban.

“I will not write another check unless they all support a ban on assault weapons,” he wrote. “Enough is enough!”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/us/prominent-republican-donor-issues-ultimatum-on-assault-weapons.html

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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1423 on: February 18, 2018, 11:02:58 AM »
I guess now would be a good time to revisit the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban to make sure we don't just do the same thing again while expecting different results.

https://www.factcheck.org/2013/02/did-the-1994-assault-weapons-ban-work/

What I see from this article is that the ban wasn't given enough time to actually prove effective in reducing crime and grandfathered in existing assault weapons instead of recalling them and didn't even address large magazine capacity.
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Offline stuffin

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1424 on: February 18, 2018, 11:24:03 AM »
Quote
A prominent Republican political donor demanded on Saturday that the party pass legislation to restrict access to guns, and vowed not to contribute to any candidates or electioneering groups that did not support a ban on the sale of military-style firearms to civilians.

Al Hoffman Jr., a Florida-based real estate developer who was a leading fund-raiser for George W. Bush’s campaigns, said he would seek to marshal support among other Republican political donors for a renewed assault weapons ban.

“I will not write another check unless they all support a ban on assault weapons,” he wrote. “Enough is enough!”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/17/us/prominent-republican-donor-issues-ultimatum-on-assault-weapons.html

I've been thinking about this, we need to write our lawmakers and tell them we will not vote for them if they accept mony from the NRA or any organization that promotes easy access to killing devices like assault rifles. Furthermore, we must demand a law prohibitting donations from said people.

If they can't donate to them they ca't buy their vote.
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Offline shnozzola

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1425 on: February 18, 2018, 12:09:24 PM »
Yes, right now on Facebook (what did Chronos call it -  the cesspool?) people are posting the amount of money that individual senators receive from the NRA.  Fla senator Rubio doesn't look happy to answer
 journalist's questions.   &)
« Last Edit: February 18, 2018, 12:11:14 PM by shnozzola »
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Offline junebug72

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1426 on: February 19, 2018, 07:31:19 AM »
My mind keeps seeing this bigger picture of mental illness. The many variables that lead up to a young man deciding to go shoot up a school.

I learned about the biopsychosocial model in PSY-150. https://www.cliffsnotes.com/study-guides/psychology/development-psychology/introduction-to-developmental-psychology/the-biopsychosocial-perspective

To me, the people responsible for causing the mental illness are just as responsible for the carnage. They most likely have some kind of mental illness too.

I wonder if anybody is truly sane. Then I wonder is this a part of the human condition? Is mental illness even a thing?

MSNBC anchor Alex Whitt interviewed a mother from the Sandy Hook shooting. Gun control is only part of the answer to school safety. Parents and schools also need to take an active role in educating their children in the types of behaviors that make people snap. 
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Offline Chronos

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1427 on: February 19, 2018, 11:21:58 AM »
After reading lots of stuff, I am feeling something different with this incident. It seems to me this may be the beginning of an American attitude change towards guns. Not certain about that and hope we don't need more incidents to keep the momentum going in the right direction.

I think the students boats were lifted by the rising tide of #metoo.
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Offline Chronos

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1428 on: February 19, 2018, 11:24:15 AM »
If it doesn’t lead to registering every globdamn gun, licensing every owner , confiscating them from the insane and from irresponsible assholes, and some globdamn accountability, won’t matter.

That’s the globdamn problem.  There is no accountability.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/how-gun-background-checks-work-and-when-they-dont

Even when actual accounting is involved, there is no accountability. (See: Deficit)

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Offline Chronos

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1429 on: February 19, 2018, 11:27:04 AM »
seems there are intentions that there will be school walk out days March 14 and/or April 20 in protest of this continuing idiocy.

Oh, I hope so. In fact, I hope they all boycott their schools until something is not just discussed, not just proposed, not just passed, but SIGNED.

I heard there is a student protest scheduled for Sat Mar 24 in DC. (Conveniently at the typical Spring Break.) I intend to be there and lend as much aging white male support as I can muster.
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Offline Chronos

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1430 on: February 19, 2018, 11:30:28 AM »
I've been thinking about this, we need to write our lawmakers and tell them we will not vote for them if they accept mony from the NRA or any organization that promotes easy access to killing devices like assault rifles. Furthermore, we must demand a law prohibitting donations from said people.

If they can't donate to them they ca't buy their vote.

Various students began tweeting the amounts given to each candidate by the NRA. Any elected official accepting any level of money from the NRA should be electorally targeted for defeat. In fact, if they don't return the money they've already accepted, we should have demonstrations at each of their offices until they do return it.



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Offline Chronos

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1431 on: February 19, 2018, 11:34:24 AM »
Yes, right now on Facebook (what did Chronos call it -  the cesspool?) people are posting the amount of money that individual senators receive from the NRA.  Fla senator Rubio doesn't look happy to answer
 journalist's questions.   &)

Please, feel free to use this image as your sole response to anything idiotic that you see on Facebook:



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Offline shnozzola

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Offline screwtape

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1433 on: February 19, 2018, 06:45:56 PM »
I guess now would be a good time to revisit the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban to make sure we don't just do the same thing again while expecting different results.

https://www.factcheck.org/2013/02/did-the-1994-assault-weapons-ban-work/

What I see from this article is that the ban wasn't given enough time to actually prove effective in reducing crime and grandfathered in existing assault weapons instead of recalling them and didn't even address large magazine capacity.

Ya see, if we also required gun registration, we’d know where every single one of them were and we could send the sheriff over to pick them up for the gun fondlers’ convenience.

But noooooooo.  We can’t have gun registration because we have too many goddamn paranoid assholes around. So we have to rely on the fucking honor system.  Which, if they said honor system plus death penalty if we catch you with one after a month, I’d be fine with it.

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1434 on: February 19, 2018, 10:49:38 PM »
Registering guns is a good option. I can't remember exactly where I read it first but I do remember NoGods suggesting a licence. I think that is a perfectly sensible thing to do. You want to own and operate something that can kill people? Fine, that is your right. Now, demonstrate that you know how to handle a gun safely. Take a test, get a licence and then you may purchase a firearm. Register every firearm you purchase and retake the test every four years. Set the minimum age at 25.  If at anytime it is discovered that you no longer have the ability to properly operate and maintain a firearm, you lose your right and your license and your firearms.

Just my two cents I borrowed from others.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 10:52:18 PM by Mr. Blackwell »
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Offline Fiji

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1435 on: February 20, 2018, 03:16:44 AM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again ... I don't know ANY western country, not even notoriously corrupt countries like Portugal, Greece or Belgium, that holds its foundational laws in LESS regard than the US.
Just apply the goddamned second amendment already!!!
Please list all the mass shooters who were part of a well regulated militia.

As per the US constitution NONE of these shooters should have had even a steak knife, let alone firearms!
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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1436 on: February 20, 2018, 03:35:46 AM »


Please, feel free to use this image as your sole response to anything idiotic that you see on Facebook:




Also this one.




Martina Hill does this comedy persona which is damn near psychopathic.
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Offline Dante

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1437 on: February 20, 2018, 01:27:09 PM »
Ya see, if we also required gun registration, we’d know where every single one of them were and we could send the sheriff over to pick them up for the gun fondlers’ convenience.

You DO realize that your scenario is exactly why many gun owners are against registration, right? The slippery slope between registration and confiscation is perilous, in the minds of many.

Quote
But noooooooo.  We can’t have gun registration because we have too many goddamn paranoid assholes around.

Paranoid of what tho? Paranoid that the Sheriff will come and confiscate?

Quote
So we have to rely on the fucking honor system.  Which, if they said honor system plus death penalty if we catch you with one after a month, I’d be fine with it.

Unapologetically Screwtape! LOL, love it.
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline Jag

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1438 on: February 20, 2018, 05:24:28 PM »
And the Right Wing Media has presented us with conspiracy theories, as expected.
http://thegatewaypundit.com/2018/02/exposed-school-shooting-surviver-turned-activist-david-hoggs-father-fbi-appears-coached-anti-trump-lines-video/

https://www.puppetstringnews.com/blog/florida-school-shooting-survivor-busted-as-fbi-plant-and-coached-during-interview

The first one I found in multiple sites, it's already spread like viral wildfire across the lunatic fringe.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1439 on: February 20, 2018, 06:46:30 PM »
Would not the students know if someone was speaking for them and they did not know this person.  And would not the teachers/administration know who was in their school?  (I guess maybe not...remember when Trump questioned Obama being at Harvard because no one remembered him there?)
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1440 on: February 20, 2018, 06:49:41 PM »
And the Right Wing Media has presented us with conspiracy theories, as expected.
http://thegatewaypundit.com/2018/02/exposed-school-shooting-surviver-turned-activist-david-hoggs-father-fbi-appears-coached-anti-trump-lines-video/

https://www.puppetstringnews.com/blog/florida-school-shooting-survivor-busted-as-fbi-plant-and-coached-during-interview

The first one I found in multiple sites, it's already spread like viral wildfire across the lunatic fringe.

What if it's true? Would it even matter if one person was being disingenuous for political reasons?
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Offline junebug72

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1441 on: February 20, 2018, 07:23:47 PM »
Quote from:  Mr Blackwell
What if it's true? Would it even matter if one person was being disingenuous for political reasons?

It did not matter Rosa Parks was a paid activist.

As long as they don't start saying it is a liberal conspiracy like they did with Sandy Hook.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1442 on: February 20, 2018, 09:25:23 PM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again ... I don't know ANY western country, not even notoriously corrupt countries like Portugal, Greece or Belgium, that holds its foundational laws in LESS regard than the US.
Just apply the goddamned second amendment already!!!
Please list all the mass shooters who were part of a well regulated militia.

As per the US constitution NONE of these shooters should have had even a steak knife, let alone firearms!

The right wing and Supreme Court justice Antonin Scalia did that.  We did not interpret the second amendment as a right to personal arms until the court decision he lead - against all historical evidence - in 2008.

I remember after 9-11, right wingers wanted to essentially do away with the fourth and fifth amendments, saying, the constitution was not a suicide pact. But when it comes to guns, it seems it is.  It is the only amendment they actually seem to care about.  And the right to religious expression, which they only use to justify discrimination and revoking others’right to religious expression.


What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1443 on: February 20, 2018, 11:36:04 PM »
I've said it before and I'll say it again ... I don't know ANY western country, not even notoriously corrupt countries like Portugal, Greece or Belgium, that holds its foundational laws in LESS regard than the US.
Just apply the goddamned second amendment already!!!
Please list all the mass shooters who were part of a well regulated militia.

As per the US constitution NONE of these shooters should have had even a steak knife, let alone firearms!

The right wing and Supreme Court justice Antonin Scalia did that.  We did not interpret the second amendment as a right to personal arms until the court decision he lead - against all historical evidence - in 2008.

I remember after 9-11, right wingers wanted to essentially do away with the fourth and fifth amendments, saying, the constitution was not a suicide pact. But when it comes to guns, it seems it is.  It is the only amendment they actually seem to care about.  And the right to religious expression, which they only use to justify discrimination and revoking others’right to religious expression.

Presser v. Illinois
Quote
Presser v. Illinois, 116 U.S. 252 (1886),[1] was a decision of the Supreme Court of the United States holding that "Unless restrained by their own constitutions, state legislatures may enact statutes to control and regulate all organizations, drilling, and parading of military bodies and associations except those which are authorized by the militia laws of the United States." Saying the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution limited only the power of Congress and the national government to control firearms, not that of the state and that the right peaceably to assemble was not protected by the clause referred to except to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presser_v._Illinois

Is that accurate?
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Offline Fiji

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1444 on: February 21, 2018, 03:43:39 AM »
The right wing and Supreme Court justice Antonin Scalia did that.  We did not interpret the second amendment as a right to personal arms until the court decision he lead - against all historical evidence - in 2008.

2008? I remember it being waaaaaaaay earlier than that ... by some two and a half decades.
Wasn't it under Reagan that the second amendment was gutted?
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Offline Fiji

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1445 on: February 21, 2018, 03:47:54 AM »
Presser v. Illinois
Quote
Presser v. Illinois, 116 U.S. 252 (1886),[1] was a decision of the Supreme Court of the United States holding that "Unless restrained by their own constitutions, state legislatures may enact statutes to control and regulate all organizations, drilling, and parading of military bodies and associations except those which are authorized by the militia laws of the United States." Saying the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution limited only the power of Congress and the national government to control firearms, not that of the state and that the right peaceably to assemble was not protected by the clause referred to except to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presser_v._Illinois

Is that accurate?

I've never  been good at this foreign tongue called legalese
But it seems that this case states:

- If you own a weapon, you're automatically part of the state militia
- the state gets to set the rules that people in that militia need to adhere to
- no other armed forced are allowed

that sum it up?
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1446 on: February 21, 2018, 08:43:36 PM »
DC  v heller

https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/07pdf/07-290.pdf

Washington DC had banned hand guns.  Scalia lied his ass off to strike that down.

A more thorough explanation

https://sandiegofreepress.org/2018/02/how-republicans-stole-the-second-amendment/
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1447 on: February 21, 2018, 09:02:49 PM »
Ya see, if we also required gun registration, we’d know where every single one of them were and we could send the sheriff over to pick them up for the gun fondlers’ convenience.

You DO realize that your scenario is exactly why many gun owners are against registration, right? The slippery slope between registration and confiscation is perilous, in the minds of many.

1. I know, and it’s a bullshit argument. It is literally a slippery slope argument.

2. I’m talking about confiscating them from people who you and I both agree ought not have them.  The crazy.  The violent.  The stupid.  The people who have the crazy or violent living under their roofs (like, Adam Lanza’s mom).

NPR had a piece on last week wherein they examined a police department trying to confiscate guns from domestic abusers with restraining orders.  The woman (victim) tells the police exactly what guns he has.  The police ask him for them.  He says, “the bitch is lyin’.  I ain’t got no guns.” They stand there like idiots for a while, then leave without his guns.

Without registration, there is no confiscation.  Without confiscation there is no accountability.  If this assault rifle ban goes through, what do we about the millions of them already floating around out there?  Not much because we don’t know who has them.

With registration, there are no more straw sales. There is accountability.

Paranoid of what tho? Paranoid that the Sheriff will come and confiscate?

Why would you be paranoid of that?  Are you a felon?  Are you a domestic abuser?  Do you hear voices in your head?  Have you threatened to shoot up a school over Twitter?  Do you live with someone to whom any of those apply?  No?  Then you have no reason to worry.

Unapologetically Screwtape! LOL, love it.

Yeah, I’ve had it with gun fools. 


 
What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline Dante

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1448 on: February 22, 2018, 04:04:40 PM »
You DO realize that your scenario is exactly why many gun owners are against registration, right? The slippery slope between registration and confiscation is perilous, in the minds of many.

1. I know, and it’s a bullshit argument. It is literally a slippery slope argument.

<snip>

Without registration, there is no confiscation.

Umm.....
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #1449 on: February 22, 2018, 05:25:15 PM »
Blanket confiscation in your comment. Justified confiscation in his.

Do you think that someone plotting a murder should be allowed to keep his gun?
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