Author Topic: Gun Fails  (Read 32304 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Azdgari

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12544
  • Darwins +301/-32
  • Gender: Male
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #696 on: May 28, 2014, 04:19:09 PM »
How does a three year old get a gun? That's what I call neglectful parents.

Kid's got rights, Nam.  Gun rights.
I have not encountered any mechanical malfunctioning in my spirit.  It works every single time I need it to.

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6951
  • Darwins +941/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #697 on: May 28, 2014, 04:56:55 PM »
How does a three year old get a gun? That's what I call neglectful parents.

Kid's got rights, Nam.  Gun rights.

Good thing the constitution does not mention a right to bear clorox, drano, rat poison or sulfuric acid. US parents might think it was okay to leave those around for their kids to get into as well. Because freedom.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Chronos

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 2462
  • Darwins +131/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • Born without religion
    • Marking Time
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #698 on: May 29, 2014, 10:22:59 PM »
More adventures of the Open Carry nuts in Texas
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/05/guns-open-carry-chilis-sonic-videos

restaurants are kicking them out.

These guys are jackasses.

Second Amendment rights, and the laws that go with them, only apply to your own private property and public property. They do not apply to other people's private property. Basic civics instruction is desperately needed.

If I were that restaurant manager, I would tell them exactly that. You are on someone else's private property and we do not permit firearms on our property unless you are an on-duty police officer. Period. I have yet to have anyone carry a firearm into my business but if one did he/she would find him/herself unwelcome until that firearm is off my property or at least placed in their vehicle. But when they come out and say "Well, Texas ABC says we can't ... " it's passing the buck and finding an excuse. The vast majority of the public doesn't care for this gun-carrying-to-eat-tacos-and-drink-margaritas nonsense.

I bet these same people rally around free-market concepts but yet can't deal with the fact that there is more demand for non-firearm restaurants than firing-range ready restaurants.


Am I biased? Maybe, but I have reason to be. My cousin was shot dead at her place of work, an act committed by her husband using a rifle from about 10 feet away. He entered through an unlocked side door (US government facility). My sister was a witness. She's been messed up mentally ever since.





John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12682
  • Darwins +709/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #699 on: May 30, 2014, 07:19:19 AM »
If I were that restaurant manager,

If I were that restaurant manager I would not be paid enough to confront gun-toting idiots, because who can tell the difference between a good guy with a gun and a bad guy with a gun until they start shooting? 
(As an aside, if armed yahoos were everywhere, think about how easy this would make it for bad guys with guns to move among us undetected.)

I'd do exactly what the other restaurant did - call the police and evacuate the restaurant.  The alternative is for the restaurant empolyees to start carrying guns, get the drop on these Open Carry Tards, and execute them if they moved.  Which I think is a terrible idea.  Minimum wage really is not enough to serve tacos, let alone play SWAT team to bounce armed tards.

Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12682
  • Darwins +709/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #700 on: May 30, 2014, 12:01:04 PM »
a good editorial on guns and America

Quote
...
It's hard to imagine what ghastly catastrophe could possibly change America's minds about guns if the little bloody bookbags of Newtown did not. After that atrocity, it seemed as if we would finally enact some obvious, long-overdue half-measures. But perfectly reasonable, moderate legislation expanding background checks and banning assault weapons and high-capacity magazines was summarily killed in the Senate for no reason other than that a sufficient number of United States senators are owned by the NRA. It made our official position as a nation nakedly explicit: we don't care about any number of murdered children, no matter how many, or how young. We want our guns.
...
http://theweek.com/article/index/262219/there-is-no-catastrophe-so-ghastly-that-america-will-reform-its-gun-laws#axzz33CHw4ybX
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6951
  • Darwins +941/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #701 on: May 30, 2014, 04:15:35 PM »
^^^^That's right.

The rest of the world looks at us like we are the village idiot, only armed with a machine gun. We will keep on spinning down our own toilet bowl with corporations feeding us the stupidest, most harmful policies they can design. And we vote for them. We don't care, because 'Murica, superpower, the flag, nukes, freedom.

Until China decides to stop floating our economy, and Russia decides it's past time to kick our a$$es....
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12682
  • Darwins +709/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12682
  • Darwins +709/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #703 on: June 16, 2014, 03:50:53 PM »
I'm compiling and sorting the gun fails by state. I am also adjusting for population.  Working backwards, from the most recent gun fail (72) I am through 39.  So far the states with the most gunfails are Ohio (73), PA (69), Texas (68), and Florida (63). 

After adjusting for population, the states with the highest rates of gunfails (per million population) are Montana (13.8), Alaska (10.9), North Dakota (8.3) and New Hampshire (7.6).  NH is not a surprise, given the libertarian bend to the state and the level of gun fanaticism there.  PA and Ohio were 5.4 and 6.3 respectively.

The lowest four are : Mass (0.4), Hawaii (0.7), Rhode Island (1.0) and California (1.5) (NJ was #5, at 1.7).  California was #5 in gross number of fails with 56.  But because it is also the most populous state, that put the rate into perspective.

The median was 4.3, the average was 4.44 and the distribution was barely normal (.076 p-value for anderson-darling).  After taking out Montana, the data was very likely normal (.646 p-value)

There are some states that I would expect a much higher incidence of gun fail - Nevada, New Mexico, and Arizona were all 2.0 or under.  Texas, too, was 2.6 and Florida was 3.2.  I was surprised they were both well under the mean.  It could be they are under reporting due to prolific gun culture, not seeing accidents as news worthy, bias, or sparse population density.  With Florida, sparse population is not likely the case.  It could just be the dilution of the incidents with a large population.

I will post this data again when I have finished compiling.
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6951
  • Darwins +941/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #704 on: June 17, 2014, 04:44:23 PM »
^^^Thanks for doing this.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Defiance

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 794
  • Darwins +28/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • Can't be mad at something that doesn't exist.
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #705 on: June 17, 2014, 09:48:49 PM »
Screw tape, Chronos, I've got the idea that you guys don't like open carry. And screw tape doesn't like gun ownership? Correct me, I didn't go through the whole thread.

"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6951
  • Darwins +941/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #706 on: June 17, 2014, 10:48:12 PM »
I have lived in countries where lots of people owned and openly carried guns. I grew up in households with guns. I am not against guns per se. However, we in the US shoot and kill each other far more often than the people in many other countries. We do not seem to be able to handle lethal force, or rather, we handle it too cavalierly.

For that reason, I would, if I were queen of the universe, not allow anyone to have a firearm of any sort unless they had passed a rigorous training course including a mental assessment, and went through a yearly update. All firearms would have a licensing fee that would include insurance to pay in case of theft, accidental injury or death. I see no reason for there to be civilian people walking around openly carrying firearms in public places.[1]

There would still be some gun fails, but far fewer, because there would be far fewer guns ending up in untrained, mentally disturbed or underaged hands.

Of course, that will never happen, because freedom.
 1. Can anyone give me a reason why people need to be walking around strapped at concerts, at the beach or at the kid's soccer game? People do that in Israel and I don't think it makes people there safer. Just more paranoid.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12682
  • Darwins +709/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #707 on: June 18, 2014, 09:26:13 AM »
Screw tape, Chronos, I've got the idea that you guys don't like open carry. And screw tape doesn't like gun ownership? Correct me, I didn't go through the whole thread.

Screwtape is one word.

It's much more complicated than that.  I do not like idiots with guns.  I do not like open carry (because it is mainly idiots who do it).  I do not like concealed carry (because it is mainly idiots who do it).  I do not mind responsible people keeping guns at home.  But there are several problems with that. 

First, most people are idiots and responsible people are few.  Idiots will do dumb things and people will get hurt.  But at least if they are home it reduces the likelihood of the rest of us paying the price.

Second, one of the points of this thread is that even responsible people make mistakes.  So, even they will cost a few lives.  There was a guy not too long ago who accidentally shot his own kid.  He was a gun safety instructor for many years in the military.  Even he admitted the irony of that.

Third, the law does very little to ensure idiots do not get guns and does little to take them away even after they have shown they are irresponsible idiots.

Fourth, the rest of us often pay for their mistakes.  If you read my conversation with epidemic, you will see that.  If you listen to gun guys after the most recent shooting, you will see that.[1] It bothers me that they justify their hobby with made-up, lofty ideals (protecting Freedom from Tyrants) that are really just bullshit. See Dante's rather high bar as to what it would take to motivate him to use his guns to end tyranny.

I like guns.  I have handled and shot guns for fun since I was a kid.  I have never hunted and never killed an animal beyond some grasshoppers and caterpillars.  I do not own one for several reasons.  Statistically speaking, they do not make you more safe.  They make you less safe.  There is a link I posted in this thread or another with data that show you are 5 times more likely to be shot if you own a gun.  In violent crimes, you are 5 times more likely to be shot if you have a gun and 4 times more likely to be killed than an unarmed person. 

Most people who get shot are not intruders set on raping you to death.  Most people who get shot are friends and family of the shooter.  And it is usually over a stupid argument, augmented by alcohol.

I do not advocate taking away all guns.  I would not oppose it, but I do not advocate it.  I just want the senseless, unnecessary and racist violence to stop.[2]  I am willing to compromise and settle on sensible laws and regulations that actually work.  Unfortunately, the spokespeople for the gun owners are unreasonable, paranoid and crazy.  They do not want compromise or sensible laws.  They seem to want anarchy and civil war.

I suggest you go through the whole thread.  There was an older thread too.  And there is a thread about the gun nuts in Nevada that is related to the issue of guns. 

But this thread is supposed to be about bone headed gun accidents.  For the last year and a quarter, Daily Kos has found an average of about 40 gun fails every week.  It does not inlcude intentional murders or suicides.  Just dumb accidents.  So many dead kids and adults over dumb accidents and Joe Wurzlebacher's constitutional right.


 1. the horrible Joe the Plumber's statement "your dead kids don't trump my gun rights"
 2. I really think the racial nature of the problem is widely overlooked
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline Chronos

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 2462
  • Darwins +131/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • Born without religion
    • Marking Time
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #708 on: June 18, 2014, 05:15:26 PM »
Yeah, I don't like open carry -- at all. I see no reason for it -- at all.

We Americans don't like men walking around town with their dicks hanging out of their pants, either, so I see no value in letting those same men have guns hanging off their hips or strapped across their backs unless we have decided that we want to revisit our youth play OK Corral. A dick hanging out of your pants at the post office cannot do any damage -- a gun, however, can do plenty. The idea that "a good guy with a gun" solves all problems is fantastically and fanatically fucked up. With Open Carry, nobody can figure out who the good guy with a gun really is, and I always thought that we hired police officers to "open carry" because they wore uniforms and obviously formed a group of good guys with guns.

I'm not much for concealed carry, either, except in circumstances where your life is under a specific threat AND you have been well-trained on the use of that firearm.

A substantial portion of the modern world does not rely on citizens to possess firearms, much less carry them. They form a very sane, safe and rational portion of the world.

The idea of you being able to walk down the street with a rifle or handgun (of various kinds) strapped to your person for everyone to see, yet I cannot walk down the street carrying a billy club (illegal for non-police to possess in many states) is preposterously stupid. Furthermore, if a person can possess arms, then I want to walk around with hand grenades. Since for some reason hand grenades are not allowed under the Second Amendment, I can only guess that the men who possess the kinds of firearms that are deemed acceptable, especially to walk around town openly displaying them, are trying to use one kind of power stick to sublimate their desires for walking around with their dicks sticking out of their pants.


John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline Defiance

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 794
  • Darwins +28/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • Can't be mad at something that doesn't exist.
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #709 on: June 18, 2014, 05:54:12 PM »
I see. Thanks for replying. I've learned much today.
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline Add Homonym

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 2765
  • Darwins +223/-4
  • Gender: Male
  • I can haz jeezusburger™
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #710 on: June 19, 2014, 05:29:07 AM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

I'm surprised that the death rate from firearms is mostly about suicide in all civilized countries. Canada doesn't seem to be spectacularly better than USA.  You can tell the countries that have a gun suppression policy, because there is a sudden drop, below that Australian rate of 0.13. Australia has a lot of rural rifles and rural suicide.
Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12682
  • Darwins +709/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #711 on: June 19, 2014, 07:20:11 AM »
^

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/03/suicides-vs-handgun-background-checks
Quote
The Israeli Defense Forces, much like American troops, was seeing a disturbing number of suicides in the ranks in 2006. In an effort to bring down the numbers, the IDF banned soldiers from bringing their rifles home with them on the weekends. Suicides fell by 40 percent, according to a study by Israeli psychiatrists.

good links there too.  In some states, gun suicide out paced death by traffic accident.
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12682
  • Darwins +709/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #712 on: June 19, 2014, 04:36:54 PM »
update on state stats
I have 12 articles left to add.

highest Gunfail states:
oh   150
tx   150
fl   123
ca   117
pa   115
(I don't see this as all that meaningful)

those same states gunfails per million citizens:
oh   12.9636582
tx   5.671464965
fl   6.290639835
ca   3.052238594
pa   9.002801907

average gunfail per million: 9.38
medial gunfail per million: 8.73

So while the gross numbers for texas, florida and california suck, they are mitigated by population, making all 3 much better than average.  PA is just about average. 

Ohio, however, is a catastrophe. It came in at 9th highest.

highest gunfail states per million citizens:
ak   28.5662983
mt   25.61160008
nd   23.50036564
ks   15.20409598
wy   14.19380937
(as expected, all very low population states)

Lowest gunfail states per million:
nv   3.225649216
ca   3.052238594
ri   1.902024801
ma   1.792965122
hi   0.712223319
(nj was 6th at 3.48)

stats on the 10 most populous states:
state   GFs   pop      GFs per million
million"
ca   117   38332521   3.052238594
tx   150   26448193   5.671464965
ny   80   19651127   4.071013332
fl   123   19552860   6.290639835
il   57   12882135   4.424732391
pa   115   12773801   9.002801907
oh   150   11570808   12.9636582
ga   83   9992167      8.306506487
mi   86   9895622      8.690711913
nc   66   9848060      6.701827568

These 10 states account for almost half the gunfails.
Notice the disparity between the states with strong gun regulation laws and the ones without. The population of PA and IL are almost identical, yet PA has twice as many gunfails.  Are they stupider?  Possibly.  But they probably have a lot more guns.

If all these states had the same gunfail rate as NY, which has some of the strictest gun laws in the country, there would be 331 fewer gun fails. 

Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6951
  • Darwins +941/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #713 on: June 19, 2014, 06:18:52 PM »
I think it is also interesting that the places with the highest violent crime rates are not the places where the gun fails happen. It seems that fear of crime, esp. in places where there is very little crime, leads people to obtain weapons that they don[t actually need for protection. Then said weapons are more likely to be used accidentally or stupidly. Or for suicide.

Where populations and violent crime rates are higher (CA and NY) the gun fail rates are lower than in those low population, low violent crime states like Alaska and Montana and Wyoming.

Wonder what the NRA would say about that, since fear of young violent (black and brown) thugs is one of the main reasons people supposedly buy lots of guns. The other reason often cited for stockpiling weapons is fear of the government, currently represented by a relatively young, relatively black president.

The three gun stockpilers I know the best are all libertarian white guys who are kind of paranoid about both crime and the government. All three are responsible, trained and know all the rules, but all have young kids around.  :o

One, a nice guy who lives in a fairly conservative white suburb surrounded by religious Christians, has been robbed several times--probably by the kids of his neighbors. I hope he never shoots any of them, because it would completely destroy him. The other two live out in the countryside, one in an actual survivalist bunker. I don't think either of them would regret shooting someone who "trespassed" on their property.

Any could be involved in a gun fail and I would not be at all surprised.  :(
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Chronos

  • Global Moderator
  • ******
  • Posts: 2462
  • Darwins +131/-7
  • Gender: Male
  • Born without religion
    • Marking Time
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #714 on: June 19, 2014, 08:27:02 PM »
I don't think lawn darts ever came anywhere close enough in actual cases of injuries and deaths to compare to firearms, yet the Consumer Products Safety Commission managed to get lawn darts off the market.

People claim that GM killed 13(?) people by having faulty starters, and GM has to spend billions in recalling their products.

In 1982 bottles of Tylenol were laced with cyanide and the police and Johnson & Johnson not only pulled all the bottles of Tylenol off the shelves, J&J stopped producing the product, stopped advertising, re-engineered the way that bottles of medication are made and delivered with secured coverings, lids, plastic wraps and glued boxes, and on those boxes a statement that you should not consume the product if it appears that someone else tampered with the packaging.  Amazing.

Ten people die sucking down Tylenol (as victims of crime) ... 6,000 injuries and 1 death by lawn darts (by playing an innocent game) ... let's say 100 people died due to GM part failures (products used every day) ... The American Public screams that they should be protected (yes, I grant you not all of them) and we take drastic steps in these circumstances to recall, remove or alter products to make them safer, but no, a small group of gun-toting Americans are holding the rest of us hostage because they cannot stand having future products designed to be safer, they cannot stand to have others offer to buy their property to move it off the market and they cannot stand the thought of not being able to walk around with their weapons of death -- products specifically designed to kill and only to kill.

Yes, we are being held hostage by these crazed people.

John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12682
  • Darwins +709/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #715 on: June 20, 2014, 08:38:15 AM »
gun fail 73
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/06/18/1305406/-Even-Upworthy-Won-t-Believe-Where-This-Georgia-Gunslinger-Accidentally-Shot-Himself-GunFAIL-LXXIII

Quote
By the numbers, we saw 13 child victims of GunFAIL, ages 2, 3, 3, 6, 7, 9, 9, 12, 14, 14, 15, 16, and 17. Eleven people accidentally shot themselves. There were four accidental shootings between pairs of siblings, including one set of 3-year-old twins (plus one between cousins). Three home invasion shootings, plus one judge's chambers and jury room invasion. Two costly airlifts for GunFAIL victims. Two cop-involved GunFAILS. And one each in the categories of: shooting yourself while out shopping (this time at Winn-Dixie); shooting yourself while unloading a gun; shooting yourself while repairing a gun; losing a gun at work; catching a stray target shooting round; shooting a friend while making a rap video, and; to pay off on our clickbait title, shooting yourself in the penis.

From a stats perspective, it was a very bad week for Texas with 6 gun fails.

One of the things I enjoy about doing the stats is watching the little races between states.  Wisconsin and Washington state are neck and neck.  Florida has always been ahead of California, but a couple of times Cali got close.  Then, just when you think they will even up, Florida has a big week and pulls away.  Texas and Ohio are in a constant back and forth for biggest failure. They are in a class all their own.  Pennsylvania was in the running for that a while back, but has since fallen away.  PA is more in the Cali-Florida tier of failure.  Which is pretty bad, given that PA also has a third the population of Cali and 2/3 the population of Florida.  Lotsa guns and lotsa idiots, I guess. 

notable fails this week:
#6 - "a child was hurt in Detroit after being attacked by a dog and shot by a man who was trying to fire at the animal."  The only thing that stops a kid being attacked by a dog, is a good guy with a gun.

#19 - angry husband fires several parting shots into wife's porch after an argument.  Also into their 2 year old who was on the porch.

#33 - gun falls out of man's waistband at Winn Dixie, goes off, shoots his foot.  Honestly, I think if someone drops a gun and it goes off it should be legal for anyone to pick up the gun and shoot the person right there.



« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 12:19:00 PM by screwtape »
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12682
  • Darwins +709/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #716 on: June 20, 2014, 12:44:27 PM »
I missed this.  A'way back in gun fail 12 or so, there was a link to a CDC database that gives info on injuries.  Gunshot is one of the query options.

http://webappa.cdc.gov/sasweb/ncipc/nfirates2001.html

enjoy

edit:

another overlooked link.  guns make you less safe, not more safe.
http://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2013/mar/25/guns-protection-national-rifle-association

Quote
They found that those with firearms were about 4.5 times more likely to be shot than those who did not carry,
...
"A gun may falsely empower its possessor to overreact, instigating and losing otherwise tractable conflicts with similarly armed persons. Along the same lines, individuals who are in possession of a gun may increase their risk of gun assault by entering dangerous environments that they would have normally avoided. Alternatively, an individual may bring a gun to an otherwise gun-free conflict only to have that gun wrested away and turned on them."

Quote
Nor did guns make the women safer; women who purchased guns were 50% more likely to be killed by an intimate partner. So LaPierre's "good woman with a gun" is actually, it seems, putting herself in danger.

« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 12:51:53 PM by screwtape »
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12682
  • Darwins +709/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #717 on: June 20, 2014, 03:00:50 PM »
okay, all done and current with the compilation.

average fails per million: 11.6
median fails per million:  11.2


the top 10 by gross fails:
state   GFs   pop   GFs per million
tx   197   26448193   7.448523988
oh   186   11570808   16.07493617
fl   160   19552860   8.182946127
pa   148   12773801   11.58621463
ca   145   38332521   3.782688856
ga   111   9992167   11.10870145
mi   103   9895622   10.40864334
tn   103   6495978   15.85596503
ny   94   19651127   4.783440665
in   94   6570902   14.30549413

yeah, yeah yeah, the formatting sucks.  The biggest loser, just by quantity of failures, is Texas.  I was really pulling for Ohio, but they just couldn't do it. 

Look at the per capita failures for Texas though - it's well below average. Indiana, however, has as many fails as NY, a state with three times the population, and Tennessee was even worse. 


top 10 best gross fails:
state   GFs   pop   GFs per million
hi   2   1404054   1.424446638
ri   3   1051511   2.853037201
vt   8   626630   12.76670443
de   9   925749   9.721857653
wy   10   563626   17.74226171
sd   11   844877   13.01964665
nv   13   2790136   4.659271089
nm   15   2085287   7.193254454
ma   19   6692824   2.838861443
nd   21   723393   29.02986344


top 10 Most fails per capita:
state   GFs   pop   GFs per million
ak   22   735132   29.92659822
nd   21   723393   29.02986344
mt   29   1015165   28.56678471
ks   56   2893957   19.35066762
nh   24   1323459   18.13429808
wy   10   563626   17.74226171
me   22   1328302   16.56249859
sc   79   4774839   16.54506047
oh   186   11570808   16.07493617
tn   103   6495978   15.85596503

A lot of smaller, more rural states there.  But there is big, fat Ohio at #8

top 10 least fails per capita:
state   GFs   pop   GFs per million
hi   2   1404054   1.424446638
ma   19   6692824   2.838861443
ri   3   1051511   2.853037201
ca   145   38332521   3.782688856
nv   13   2790136   4.659271089
nj   42   8899339   4.719451636
ny   94   19651127   4.783440665
il   74   12882135   5.74438942
md   35   5928814   5.903372917
ms   21   2991207   7.020577312

The two big surprises for me were Mississippi and Nevada.  MS is dead last in almost every metric on the planet - education, poverty, teen pregnancy, tooth decay, etc.  I figured they would have an equally horrible track record with guns.  I can only guess this is a result of most of the state being illiterate, so they don't bother to put gun fails in the news paper. 

As for Nevada, I dunno.  Maybe accidental gun fails are so routine there they no longer draw any attention?

Illinois is interesting because it has Chicago, which I think skews it higher.  However, as I was filling in the spread sheet, an interesting race between Illinois an Indiana developed.  Indy blew away Illinois.  The are geographically next to each other.  But IL has a pop of almost 13 million, IN has half that - 6.6 million.  Yet IN had 94 GF, with a GFPM of 14.3, putting it at the 12th highest.  I would reason that a large portion of IL's gun problems stem from IN.

Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12682
  • Darwins +709/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #718 on: June 23, 2014, 07:51:17 AM »
Sure to be in up coming gun fail: guy shoots his own dink.
http://crooksandliars.com/2014/06/yet-another-responsible-gun-owner-shoots

Quote
At least five American men have shot off their penises since 2010.

That's a good start, but at that rate, it is too slow to be a selective factor. 

another fail:
http://crooksandliars.com/2014/06/another-responsible-gun-owner-accidentally
Quote
...a stray bullet entered the home from more than 200 feet away, struck Ayers in the back of the head and killed him instantly.

Moments earlier, Charles Edward Shisler, 62, had picked up a loaded 9mm pistol in his residence, adjacent to the Ayers’ home, and the gun discharged.
Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline nogodsforme

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 6951
  • Darwins +941/-6
  • Gender: Female
  • Jehovah's Witness Protection Program
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #719 on: June 23, 2014, 02:27:08 PM »
^^^^Damn, guns make me nervous.

You can kill someone in another house just by picking one up. Wouldn't it make sense to design guns with all kinds of safety devices installed, instead of making them fire more easily? What circumstance would a normal person be in where they would need to blow away another person at a moment's notice?

I swear, too many people think that real life is like the movies.

If your neighbor has a golf club, baseball bat or even a machete lying around for home defense, you are probably not going to find yourself getting accidentally beaten or slashed to death. But if your neighbor is a good guy with a gun, you are much more likely to be accidentally shot in the back of the head.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12682
  • Darwins +709/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #720 on: June 23, 2014, 03:10:24 PM »
But if your neighbor is a good guy with a gun, you are much more likely to be accidentally shot in the back of the head.

Succinctly summarizing the whole point of the thread.  Even responsible gun owners make mistakes.   

You know what would make a lot more sense, in terms of home defense?  Build your bedroom into a panic room.  Lock it at night when you sleep.  You have nothing to worry about, no need to shoot anyone.  Your stuff can be replaced with a good insurance policy.

But you are absolutely right.  For too many people, shooting an intruder or a "bad guy" is a fantasy. 

Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12682
  • Darwins +709/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #721 on: June 25, 2014, 06:59:56 AM »
Guns make you less safe
https://www.vpc.org/press/1406gundeath.htm
Quote
States with weak gun violence prevention laws and higher rates of gun ownership have the highest overall gun death rates in the nation, according to a Violence Policy Center (VPC) analysis of new data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Center for Injury Prevention and Control.


Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.

Offline Defiance

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 794
  • Darwins +28/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • Can't be mad at something that doesn't exist.
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #722 on: June 25, 2014, 09:08:29 PM »
^^^^Damn, guns make me nervous.

You can kill someone in another house just by picking one up. Wouldn't it make sense to design guns with all kinds of safety devices installed, instead of making them fire more easily? What circumstance would a normal person be in where they would need to blow away another person at a moment's notice?

I swear, too many people think that real life is like the movies.

If your neighbor has a golf club, baseball bat or even a machete lying around for home defense, you are probably not going to find yourself getting accidentally beaten or slashed to death. But if your neighbor is a good guy with a gun, you are much more likely to be accidentally shot in the back of the head.
What circumstances?  How about a home invasion?
Let's set the scene; humour me.

It is late at night. You are sleeping in your bed, just like everyone. Your gun is safely locked in a combo safe. Suddenly, glass breaks downstairs and you're awoken. You hear the intruder rummaging around.
Instinctively, you reach up to your safe and quickly unlock it and remove the gun from it, loading and cocking it.

You silently make sure that everyone near you is safe and silent, and head down to kick this person's arse. The burgular sees you and begans running at you. Too bad there's a gun in between you and them. He stops and drops his weapon, if he has any, or you shoot.

You are under no obligation to not shoot. He invaded your property and you have a right to self defense. Or would you rather come down with a baseball bat, go hand to hand with a potentially dangerous criminal who knows how to hit? If you're knocked out, who'll protect the rest?

Don't flame on me, please. Im trying to show a different prespective.

My friend's dad has a concealed handgun license,  and he keeps his safe in a non disclosed place. So no, he is not going to have his kids shoot anyone by accident, and he's not going to pop targets in his back yard.
"God is just and fair"
*God kills 2.5 million of people he KNEW would turn out like this in the flood*
*Humanity turns bad again, when God knew it would*
We should feel guilty for this.

Offline Tero

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 728
  • Darwins +18/-5
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #723 on: June 25, 2014, 09:38:36 PM »
Chicks with gun. Enjoy!
http://i.imgur.com/4ZIJ65i.gif

Offline screwtape

  • The Great Red Dragon
  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 12682
  • Darwins +709/-28
  • Gender: Male
  • Karma mooch
Re: Gun Fails
« Reply #724 on: June 26, 2014, 07:15:38 AM »
You are under no obligation to not shoot.

That depends on the state you are in.  IN places like Texas and Florida they have Stand Your Ground and Castle Doctrine Laws where you may shoot pretty much anyone at any time as long as they are on your property and you can plausibly claim to be protecting someone or even just your stuff.  This leads to a lot of dead people over bikes, cars and other relatively worthless, replaceable things.  It also leads to a lot of shot family members, followed by "I thought she was a burlgar" type of excuses.

However, in states with saner gun laws, like NY and NJ, you are obligated to retreat. In NJ you may only shoot someone if you life is in danger.

But you present a scenario where the homeowner is not using his or her brain.  If someone breaks in and has not attacked you, why seek a confrontation?  Just because you have a gun does not mean you won't be killed.  There might be more than one robber.  They might be armed.  Even if they are not, they could take the gun away from you.  That happens all the time.  And in your scenario, the homeowner did not call the police.

Best policy if someone is in your house is to get out and call the police.  If you cannot, lock yourself in a place they cannot get in and call the police.  If they try to break into that place, shoot them.  Going out and looking for a confrontation is putting yourself in danger needlessly and kind of stupid.


Don't flame on me, please. Im trying to show a different prespective.

Your perspective in this case is not very well thought out.

My friend's dad has a concealed handgun license,  and he keeps his safe in a non disclosed place. So no, he is not going to have his kids shoot anyone by accident, and he's not going to pop targets in his back yard.

Have you even been reading these gun fails?  Read the intro to GF68:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/05/07/1294922/-Poor-etiquette-firing-into-a-neighbor-s-home-while-pistol-whipping-one-s-girlfriend-GunFAIL-LXVIII

Quote
He and his 11-year-old cousin had asked to see his uncle's gun collection, which the uncle dutifully unlocked from his gun safe, suggesting he was perhaps a rather responsible gun owner after all,...
In demonstrating the coolness of the laser sight attached to his Glock 27, the uncle fell prey to the old "there's no magazine in it" trick, trained the laser sight on his nephew's forehead, and then threw a lifetime of responsible gun ownership away in a split second. He also killed his nephew,

If I were you, I would avoid your friend's house and his dad.

Links:
Rules
Guides & Tutorials

What's true is already so. Owning up to it does not make it worse.